From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V8 #122 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Sunday, May 8 2005 Volume 08 : Number 122 Today's Subjects: ----------------- RE: [idealcopy] OT: Arcade Fire ["Keith Knight" ] [idealcopy] [OT] Alan Hovhaness [Bart van Damme ] [idealcopy] RE: Jazz (No) Jazz ["David McKenzie" ] Re: [idealcopy] [OT] Alan Hovhaness [Bart van Damme ] Re: [idealcopy] trivia qn [PaulRabjohn@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] trivia qn [Jan Noorda ] Re: [idealcopy] trivia qn [Jan Noorda ] Re: [idealcopy] trivia qn [Jan Noorda ] Re: [idealcopy] Jazz punk ["Keith A" ] Re: [idealcopy] Fwd:Latest......... [BDD+Furs] Update 5/7/05 ["Keith A" <] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 7 May 2005 10:31:00 +0100 From: "Keith Knight" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] OT: Arcade Fire Will be going to see them live on Monday (although whether I will have come down from last night's monumental VdGG return by then is moot). Funeral is certainly the debut album of the year at present and all the live reports are very encouraging. Another the Keith - -----Original Message----- From: owner-idealcopy@smoe.org [mailto:owner-idealcopy@smoe.org] On Behalf Of Bart van Damme Sent: 07 May 2005 09:22 To: Ideal Copy Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT: Arcade Fire > Can highly recommend these if they come to your town! > Thought their LP was a bit hit & miss but live they are magic...and they > sold copies of their early mini-lp which is really good. For me "Funeral" is the debut of the millenium and "Laika" one of the best singles ever! The EP indeed has some great tunes as well. I'm sad as hell I can't make it to their Dutch gigs. > Think Talking Heads, meets Dexys, meets early Mercury Rev, meets > Godspeed You Black Emporer with a sense of humour. Add a bit of Kate > Bush, a dash of Bjork....and a bloke in a crash helmet hitting things. Like your description. All 'n all they have quite a unique sound I think. Bart ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 7 May 2005 03:03:51 -0700 (PDT) From: Fergus Kelly Subject: [idealcopy] Jazz punk Date: Fri, 06 May 2005 10:01:06 -0400 From: rose_dan@colstate.edu Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Jazz not jazz...... pt. 4.8 I'm with Ari on this. lots and lots of jazz for all types of people. There's even a type of Jazz called "Jazz Punk," of which Simon Fell is a big contributor. ))) In a similar vien would be Konk Pack, featuring the inimitable Roger Turner on drums, Thomas Lehn on synth, and Tim Hodgkinson on reeds and electronics. Wild stuff. One album that combines both in my head is the first half of Ornette's In All Languages. There are these short, intense acoustic trio tunes that just sear the ears....... ))) Anyone remember Pinski Zoo ? fronted by sax player Jan Kopinski. Wonderful stuff. Only two LPs I'm aware of: "Introduce me to the doctor" and "The city can't have it back" Fergus Yahoo! Mail Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the tour: http://tour.mail.yahoo.com/mailtour.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 07 May 2005 13:09:52 +0200 From: Bart van Damme Subject: [idealcopy] [OT] Alan Hovhaness Does anyone have any recordings by 20th century Armenian/American composer Alan Hovhaness? In the 80's I taped some of his many symphonies (80!) from the radio, but never came across any vinyl or cds of his work. People who like the mysticism of Olivier Messiaen, John Tavener and especially Arvo Part will probably quite enjoy his music. Keywords: east/west, buddhism, Bach polyphonics, renaissance. As an aside: when he died in 2000 at the age of 89, it seems the ol' bugger left a 23 year old bride!! Bart ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 7 May 2005 07:28:39 -0500 From: "David McKenzie" Subject: [idealcopy] RE: Jazz (No) Jazz Interesting discussion. For me, jazz is best defined by the AACM credo "Great Black Music" I do not want to venture into the racism or suggest that that persons not of African heritage are incapable, but the roots of this music are the folk music of Africa and, for me, define what is 'jazz' and what is something else. Of course, various other influences (cultural and technological) have influenced the evolution. I am personally unsure just what jazz is today. But I do reject grouping the Sex Pistols with Ornette just because both are loud and sound angry when they are in such different cultural and musical spaces. Could you imagine Jerry Garcia sitting in with The Fall? His playing actually meshed quite well with Ornette's. On the other hand, Tom Verlaine once claimed that Coltrane was his primary musical influence. And as time passes, s0me Television reminds me of (some of the better moments of) the Dead. And maybe, I could see harmolodics having commonality with dugga. Ornette did reject the notion of having to be able to play in before playing out when he employed his then 10 year old son Denardo as drummer. That said, Denardo, and the music grew stronger with time. It is all so confusing. I guess the best music can transcend genres. But, personally, when I see a label like Punk Jazz, I run. My experience is that something like that will be the worst of both worlds - jazz played by someone without chops or without sensibility, rather than something like Wire which is was essentially punk played with finesse (mach 1) and ultimately chops (mach 3). ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 7 May 2005 08:45:17 EDT From: Eardrumbuz@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: JAZZ! and not jazz In a message dated 5/6/05 6:20:00 AM, bartvandamme@home.nl writes: > > Dutch anarcho-punks The Ex have been playing a lot with jazz musicians > like Han Bennink and (the late) Tom Cora > yeah, the albums with tom cora are very cool! didn't realise he was a jazz musician. i wonder if gybe! listened to these ex albums ;o) - -paul c.d. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 7 May 2005 09:05:19 EDT From: Eardrumbuz@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT: Arcade Fire/albums of the year In a message dated 5/7/05 4:25:50 AM, bartvandamme@home.nl writes: > > > > Think Talking Heads, meets Dexys, meets early Mercury Rev, meets > > Godspeed You Black Emporer with a sense of humour. Add a bit of Kate > > Bush, a dash of Bjork....and a bloke in a crash helmet hitting things. > > Like your description. All 'n all they have quite a unique sound I think. > i hear a lot of early u2 in there as well. funeral is definitely one of the best things i've heard this year. still, bsp's open season is top of the list :o) - -paul c.d. p.s. anyone know if there's any action coming from hope of the states? ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 7 May 2005 09:16:32 EDT From: Eardrumbuz@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Jazz punk In a message dated 5/7/05 6:16:53 AM, lockupyourhats@yahoo.com writes: > > ))) Anyone remember Pinski Zoo ? fronted by sax player > Jan Kopinski. Wonderful stuff. Only two LPs I'm aware > of: "Introduce me to the doctor" and "The city can't > have it back" > > Fergus > thanks fergus. you just helped me hit myself in the head for not mentioning the wonderful mr. ted milton and blurt! don't really know about his personal influences/inspiration, but what better description for him than jazz-punk?! - -paul c.d. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 7 May 2005 03:41:42 +0100 From: "Uri Baran" Subject: [idealcopy] Wire and The Beatles Not an obvious pairing on first observation but beneath the surface, a lot in common. Basic format the same - beat combo, 2 guitars, bass and drums. Core writing pair Lennon/Lewis and McCartney/Newman. Lennon particularly gifted wordsmith perfectly capable of fine tunes too. McCartney a particularly gifted tunesmith also capable of good lyrics. Harrison/Gilbert - slightly shy one on the side. Independent musical interests and capabilities, occasional song contributor, very important influence/input. Starr/Gotobed - I'm struggling with this one. Under-rated drummer, technically excellent. Occasional forays into singing (probably unwise in both cases). I have a theory that there will be a surprising correlation between Wire and Beatle fans. I know Colin is one (well, a Beatle fan anyway), I'm a big Beatles fan. Difficult to do a poll on the list though.... U. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 07 May 2005 17:15:58 +0200 From: Bart van Damme Subject: Re: [idealcopy] [OT] Alan Hovhaness sadly the quality has already faded - hence my mail. Bart > why don't you put those recordings to c.d before the > quality fades, did that with all my 'treasured' > recordings. Ari >> Does anyone have any recordings by 20th century >> Armenian/American composer Alan Hovhaness? ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 07 May 2005 17:33:45 +0200 From: Bart van Damme Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: JAZZ! and not jazz Not too familiar with Tom Cora's work, but heard his name mentioned a lot next to the likes of John Zorn. Thought he'd done a lot of crossing borders between jazz, worldmusic and classical. Bart > yeah, the albums with tom cora are very cool! didn't realise he was a jazz > musician. >> Dutch anarcho-punks The Ex have been playing a lot with jazz musicians >> like Han Bennink and (the late) Tom Cora ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 07 May 2005 12:05:05 -0400 From: rose_dan@colstate.edu Subject: Re: [idealcopy] RE: Jazz (No) Jazz I guess for me, the best place where Jazz and punk meet, would be in the work of the aforementioned Fell and Zorn. Both have excellent chops, are incredible composers and have a fierce expressiveness. When Brotzmann gets going, when he starts that roar/howl he does, I hear the same sort of expression I heard in concert when Wire 3 hit their stride...... - ----- Original Message ----- From: David McKenzie Date: Saturday, May 7, 2005 8:28 am Subject: [idealcopy] RE: Jazz (No) Jazz > Interesting discussion. > > For me, jazz is best defined by the AACM credo "Great Black Music" > I do not want to venture into the racism or suggest that that > persons not of > African heritage are incapable, but the roots of this music are > the folk > music of Africa and, for me, define what is 'jazz' and what is > somethingelse. Of course, various other influences (cultural and > technological) have > influenced the evolution. I am personally unsure just what jazz > is today. > > But I do reject grouping the Sex Pistols with Ornette just because > both are > loud and sound angry when they are in such different cultural and > musicalspaces. Could you imagine Jerry Garcia sitting in with The > Fall? His > playing actually meshed quite well with Ornette's. > > On the other hand, Tom Verlaine once claimed that Coltrane was his > primarymusical influence. And as time passes, s0me Television > reminds me of (some > of the better moments of) the Dead. And maybe, I could see > harmolodicshaving commonality with dugga. > > Ornette did reject the notion of having to be able to play in > before playing > out when he employed his then 10 year old son Denardo as drummer. > Thatsaid, Denardo, and the music grew stronger with time. > > It is all so confusing. I guess the best music can transcend > genres. But, > personally, when I see a label like Punk Jazz, I run. My > experience is that > something like that will be the worst of both worlds - jazz played by > someone without chops or without sensibility, rather than > something like > Wire which is was essentially punk played with finesse (mach 1) and > ultimately chops (mach 3). ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 07 May 2005 18:07:13 +0200 From: Bart van Damme Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Wire and The Beatles > Starr/Gotobed - I'm struggling with this one. You mean you didn't know about STARR ORGANIC PRODUCE??? ;-) http://tinyurl.com/9b3ur (bottom page) > I have a theory that there will be a surprising correlation between Wire and > Beatle fans. I know Colin is one (well, a Beatle fan anyway), I'm a big > Beatles fan. Difficult to do a poll on the list though.... Not at all... I'm a huge Beatle fan. Bart ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 7 May 2005 10:00:51 -0700 (PDT) From: Ari Subject: [idealcopy] Fwd:Latest......... [BDD+Furs] Update 5/7/05 sumone chek this spelinn'..... - --- bdd update wrote: > Date: Sat, 07 May 2005 09:55:35 -0700 > From: "bdd update" > Subject: [BDD+Furs] Update 5/7/05 > To: threeduggaduggas@yahoo.com > > > A bit more information on the UK dates planned for > the end of June... > > 06/23/05: London / Shepard's Bush Empire (TENTATIVE) > 06/24/05: Hyde Park / 02 Wireless Festival > (TENTATIVE) > 06/25/05: Dublin / TBA (TENTATIVE) > > Please note that these are the only three UK dates > planned, and that they are still considered > TENTATIVE. Please don't email me asking for more > info--I'll announce it as soon as I have it! > > Anna > -- > Burned Down Days > The Psychedelic Furs > http://www.burneddowndays.com/ > > ................................................................ > to unsubscribe, please visit > http://burneddowndays.com/mailinglist.html or > contact the list owner at anna@burneddowndays.com > Yahoo! Mail Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the tour: http://tour.mail.yahoo.com/mailtour.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 7 May 2005 14:13:34 EDT From: Eardrumbuz@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Fwd:Latest......... [BDD+Furs] Update 5/7/05 In a message dated 5/7/05 1:03:57 PM, threeduggaduggas@yahoo.com writes: > > > 06/23/05: London / Shepard's Bush Empire (TENTATIVE) > > 06/24/05: Hyde Park / 02 Wireless Festival > > (TENTATIVE) > > 06/25/05: Dublin / TBA (TENTATIVE) > > > > Please note that these are the only three UK dates > > planned, and that they are still considered > > TENTATIVE. Please don't email me asking for more > > info--I'll announce it as soon as I have it! > > > > Anna > > -- > > Burned Down Days > > The Psychedelic Furs > > http://www.burneddowndays.com/ > well, when anna says there will be only 3 dates, there will probably be only 3 dates. there are quite a few days between june 25th in the uk and july 23rd in california...so, we'll have to see what comes up! an early WOOHOO for all the uk furs fans! - -paul c.d. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 7 May 2005 15:19:39 EDT From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: [idealcopy] trivia qn so (ref. githead) , does anyone know what "antiphon" is? ( i do , but i reckon its such an obscure reference few others would .............) any thoughts? p ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 07 May 2005 21:46:55 +0200 From: Bart van Damme Subject: Re: [idealcopy] trivia qn > so (ref. githead) , does anyone know what "antiphon" is? ( i do , but i > reckon its such an obscure reference few others would .............) If you know what antiphon means you are, or definitely have been a choirboy! Bart ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 7 May 2005 16:20:56 EDT From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] trivia qn In a message dated 07/05/2005 21:06:57 GMT Standard Time, bartvandamme@home.nl writes: If you know what antiphon means you are, or definitely have been a choirboy! /////////er , god no. the reference i am thinking of is something modern and technical. maybe there's a dual meaning to this that my atheism has meant i'm missing. pray tell bart.....p ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 7 May 2005 15:35:04 -0700 (PDT) From: Jan Noorda Subject: Re: [idealcopy] trivia qn so (ref. githead) , does anyone know what "antiphon" is? ( i do , but i reckon its such an obscure reference few others would .............) any thoughts? p - -1- short passage, usually from the Bible, sung or recited as a response after certain parts of a liturgucal service - -2- a psalm, hymn etc. chanted or sung in alternate parts - -3- any response or answer. my dictionary says. When I am thinking in GitHead terms I would say. -3- j - --------------------------------- Yahoo! Mail Mobile Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Check email on your mobile phone. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 7 May 2005 15:56:11 -0700 (PDT) From: Jan Noorda Subject: Re: [idealcopy] trivia qn Technical? Are you referring to the phenomena anti-sound opposite then the poluting sound to create a kind of silence. Don't know how far science already is or is this just a wild-west story so to say. j Are you referring to the phenomena of creating frequencies opposite an In a message dated 07/05/2005 21:06:57 GMT Standard Time, bartvandamme@home.nl writes: If you know what antiphon means you are, or definitely have been a choirboy! /////////er , god no. the reference i am thinking of is something modern and technical. maybe there's a dual meaning to this that my atheism has meant i'm missing. pray tell bart.....p - --------------------------------- Discover Yahoo! Stay in touch with email, IM, photo sharing & more. Check it out! ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 7 May 2005 16:37:33 -0700 (PDT) From: Jan Noorda Subject: Re: [idealcopy] trivia qn Technical? Are you referring to the phenomena anti-sound opposite then the poluting sound to create a kind of silence. Don't know how far science already is or is this just a wild-west story so to say. Asked on the EN chat list. Someone mentioned this is called masking. http://www.sennheiser.com/sennheiser/icm_eng.nsf/resources/Noisegard_eng.pdf/$File/Noisegard_eng.pdf reality is stranger then fiction j Are you referring to the phenomena of creating frequencies opposite an In a message dated 07/05/2005 21:06:57 GMT Standard Time, bartvandamme@home.nl writes: If you know what antiphon means you are, or definitely have been a choirboy! /////////er , god no. the reference i am thinking of is something modern and technical. maybe there's a dual meaning to this that my atheism has meant i'm missing. pray tell bart.....p - --------------------------------- Discover Yahoo! Stay in touch with email, IM, photo sharing & more. Check it out! - --------------------------------- Yahoo! Mail Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the tour ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 8 May 2005 02:21:27 +0100 From: "Keith A" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Jazz punk > thanks fergus. you just helped me hit myself in the head for not mentioning > the wonderful mr. ted milton and blurt! don't really know about his personal > influences/inspiration, but what better description for him than jazz-punk?! > > -paul c.d. Yeah. And what about Robert Quine's guitar playing? ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 8 May 2005 02:22:50 +0100 From: "Keith A" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Fwd:Latest......... [BDD+Furs] Update 5/7/05 > > > 06/23/05: London / Shepard's Bush Empire (TENTATIVE) > > > 06/24/05: Hyde Park / 02 Wireless Festival > > > (TENTATIVE) > > > 06/25/05: Dublin / TBA (TENTATIVE) > > > > > > Please note that these are the only three UK dates > > > planned, and that they are still considered > > > TENTATIVE. Please don't email me asking for more > > > info--I'll announce it as soon as I have it! I'm just waiting for Fergus to announce how crossed he is that Dublin is now apparently in the UK! ; ) ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V8 #122 *******************************