From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V8 #117 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Tuesday, May 3 2005 Volume 08 : Number 117 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [idealcopy] Re:Game Pieces..... [Ari ] [idealcopy] CONVICTION ["Keith A" ] Re: [idealcopy] |OT| randomness redux ["Keith A" ] [idealcopy] OT: hg2g [Monochromatic Man ] [idealcopy] Xj wrote...... [Ari ] Re: [idealcopy] |OT| randomness redux [Eardrumbuz@aol.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 2 May 2005 04:44:34 -0700 (PDT) From: Ari Subject: [idealcopy] Re:Game Pieces..... Fergus wrote.......... >>))) John Zorn has used cards in this way for players in his 'game' pieces, as has bassist Barry Guy. Highly entertaining to watch. There is also the Butch Morris approach to 'conduction', as used with The London Improvisors Orchestra, where players respond to a whole range of signs and prompts, based on certain playing rules.<< I have the 'Cobra' game pieces Fergus (in fact I have all 5 cobra releases) Refresh my memory,what else did he do in this way (I'm sure I have it, but then I have 70 Zorn titles) Ari Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 May 2005 18:14:33 +0100 From: "Keith A" Subject: [idealcopy] CONVICTION This cop series with a difference was initially shown on BBC3 the end of last year and is now going to be shown on BBC2 this Sat May 7th at 9.25pm. Made by the excellent Red Productions (Clocking Off, Bob & Rose, etc), this is well worth a look. http://www.redproductioncompany.com/conviction/index.asp ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 May 2005 17:47:40 +0100 From: "Keith A" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] |OT| randomness redux > keith, i don't know if you've avoided jazz or tried and disliked, but either > way please give monk a shot (or another shot). i'd like to suggest mulligan > meets monk. nothing wanky going on and mulligan's baritone sax fits in so > beautifully. I don't mind the old trad Dixeland stuff. I like they way it sounds like they mean it. I've seen a couple of trad jazz bands live and really enjoyed it. I don't mind what I've heard by Zorn, but he doesn't spring to mind when I think of jazz. What I really hate is all that fiddy, squiddly shit. I'll give you an example... When they repeated some old OGWT performances a few years ago, they showed one by either Chick Corea or Stanley Clarke (it may well have been both). It was TERRIBLE! In fact, it's so bad I've kept it on tape just so that one day I can show the grandkids what music was really like in the 70's!! That's the type of thing I really object to. Cold, calculated, screaming 'look how clever I am'. > take Can out of the equation and how many bands of > musicians' did anything interesting? Andrew said... >Okay, people are going to want to lynch me for some of these, but >Squarepusher (who is a prodigiously talented jazz bassist), Jimi >Hendrix, Godspeed You! Black Emperor (c'mon, there's a full string >section in the band for goodness' sake), Radiohead (if having Radio >3's composer-in-residence in the band counts), Tortoise... Well, yes Hendrix was undoubtedly quite good on the guitar! But his playing on the vinyl I know is actually fairly restrained overall. It's when you see live footage that he goes really OTT, though even then his sheer flamboyance wins through for me. Radiohead? Dunno, never really struck me a great musicians. They just seem proficient like a lot of other bands, though maybe they restrain themselves, too and they're better than I thought. But having 3 composers in a band means little to me - once you are in a hugely successful band all sorts of avenues open. Sid Vicious could probably have had an orchestra at his disposal if he'd lived long enough! But though it might help - you certainly don't need to be a great musician to 'compose' IMO. One you're in that position you can always get someone to write your ideas down for you - David Arnold openly admits he does. K. np Augustus Pablo - in fine style ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 May 2005 17:46:03 +0100 From: "Garry Phillipson" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] |OT| randomness redux I think it was the two kinds of Keith who mentioned Can in the technique v inspiration thread, and quite right too. This got me thinking that Can are also significant on the divination front. There was a hexagram from the I Ching on the cover of 'Future Days', and the way Holger picked out a new singer (Damo) suggests a good deal of faith in serendipity, synchronicity or what have you. I'm sure I remember an interview with Irmin where he said that a fortune teller of some sort had told him a 'tall dark stranger' would be joining the band, which turned out to be Rosko Gee. On top of that, I found this quote: "...Michael Karoli -- was an astrologer who played electric guitar according to the mathematical relationships of the planets." http://www.thing.de/delektro/can7-97.html - - this is a good article, though I suspect the bit about Karoli being an astrologer etc may be a Chinese-whispered version of the following: "But they were also influenced by other things such as astrology, the I Ching, and quantum physics. "I was very interested in the cosmic harmonies. I spent long nights comparing the revolutions of Mars, trying to figure out what chords they were making" guitarist Mike Karoli stated in the recent interview with WIRE." http://www.aural-innovations.com/issues/issue4/can01.html - - does anyone know any more about Karoli's possible astrological connection? I found one reference where John Cage says that astrology can be useful: JOHN CAGE: Well, if you had a disturbance both about your work and about your daily life, what are you going to do? ...There isn't much help for someone who is in trouble in our society. I had eliminated psychiatry as a possibility. You have Oriental thought, you have mythology. ...Another possibility is astrology, curiously enough. It can be useful in such cases. Or occult thought, or the thinking, for instance, of Rudolf Steiner. http://www.aaa.si.edu/oralhist/cage74.htm In a late attempt to move back on topic: Wire III were set up with the agenda of playing fast shouty rock songs, but I wonder if what's needed now to get their interest back (esp. Gilbert's) would be to introduce some sort of randomising influence which would enable them to do almost anything in the name of Wire. Personally, I think that would be a Good Thing, esp. if the Mighty Thorne was brought in to produce it. Garry ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 May 2005 18:59:02 +0100 From: Andrew Walkingshaw Subject: Re: [idealcopy] |OT| randomness redux On Mon, May 02, 2005 at 05:47:40PM +0100, Keith A wrote: > But having 3 composers in a band means little to me No... BBC Radio 3's composer-in-residence is Jonny Greenwood is what I meant. He's beyond any reasonable doubt a highly-proficient musician, I think. - - Andrew ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 May 2005 15:35:04 +0100 From: "Keith Knight" Subject: [idealcopy] First Pink Flag, then Kimono My House... .. Now the next album to get the full length live-performance treatment is Horses, which Patti Smith will play live at the RFH on Sat 25 June with John Cale in attendance. Tickets go on sale on Thursday. http://www.rfh.org.uk/main/series/202.html This truly is a golden age of gig-going, at least in London. Another the Keith ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 02 May 2005 19:00:27 +0100 From: Bunny Smedley Subject: Re: [idealcopy] The New Kraftwerk I can claim a modest role in this: Gary (aka Palefox on the British Sea Power forum) showed me the Labour picture and pointed out the similarity when we were chatting before the recent BSP concert. 3Just right for Private Eye2 I said and the rest is recorded for posterity. http://www.private-eye.co.uk/content/showitem.cfm/issue.1131/section.look= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 May 2005 23:15:11 +0100 (BST) From: Monochromatic Man Subject: [idealcopy] OT: hg2g Hi all, Back from a week of no tv or internet(at home). I saw the Hitchhikers Guide over the weekend on the Imax screen. Anyone else see it? I really enjoyed it, except for the very end, but that's hollywood...wonder if any sequels will ever show up? Cheers, Billy Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 May 2005 16:07:43 -0700 (PDT) From: Ari Subject: [idealcopy] Xj wrote...... >>Hi all, Back from a week of no tv or internet(at home). I saw the Hitchhikers Guide over the weekend on the Imax screen. Anyone else see it?<< Saw it saturday, loved it, wasn't even disappointed over Marvin's appearance, cuz of all the trailers, Douglas woulda loved it, pretty darn close to the bok, with only some slight deviations. >>I really enjoyed it, except for the very end, but that's hollywood...wonder if any sequels will ever show up?<< I hope so, I 'quite' liked the ending, or did you leave before end credits had finished? the part where.......... A Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 May 2005 19:48:33 EDT From: Eardrumbuz@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] |OT| randomness redux In a message dated 5/2/05 1:48:22 PM, keith.indoorminer@virgin.net writes: > > That's the type of thing I really object to. > > Cold, calculated, screaming 'look how clever I am'. > me too. :o) - -paul c.d. ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V8 #117 *******************************