From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V8 #115 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Sunday, May 1 2005 Volume 08 : Number 115 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [idealcopy] Git Videos and stuff [Bart van Damme ] Re: [idealcopy] |OT| randomness redux [Eardrumbuz@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] |OT| randomness redux [Eardrumbuz@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] |OT| randomness redux [Bart van Damme ] Re: [idealcopy] Rorschaching Rules! [Bart van Damme Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Git Videos and stuff Easy. Just save (as) from the Safari Archive menue (or right mouse button if you have one) should do the trick. That or you could open the URL from QuickTime and save in the same manner. Good luck. Bart > I'm using a G4, a G5, Explorer and Safari, and I still can't figure out how to > download these Githead videos for keeps. Would someone be so kind as to give > me a clue? > > Thanks, > Robert (another) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2005 03:28:43 -0700 (PDT) From: Fergus Kelly Subject: [idealcopy] A long way from Tramway Exactly 1 year today since Wire's last gig. Linking in with the recent thread on chance operations, I put up this chance derived image on flickr to mark the occasion: http://www.flickr.com/photos/55867717@N00/11582899/ Fergus ps - sorry to be a right pedant here, but that Cage book someone refered to is called A Year From Monday, not 'A Year Full Of Mondays' Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2005 12:20:44 +0100 From: "Keith Knight" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] For Fall fans...The Perfumed Garden It's odd, looking at the Peel sessions listing on amazon, how The Fall never recorded New Big Prinz for Peel. Or, indeed, Mr Pharmacist. Both these have been churned out virtually every time I've seen them for years. Typically perverse I suppose. Another the Keith - -----Original Message----- From: Tim [mailto:tim@kidsindestructible.com] Sent: 26 April 2005 02:02 To: Keith Knight Cc: 'Wire (E-mail)' Subject: Re: [idealcopy] For Fall fans...The Perfumed Garden The excellent Fopp Records are doing it for #25ukp which beats Amazons price. Incredibly reasonable considering you normally pay 40-50ukp for yr average box set of maybe 4 CDs. This has 6, and a nice booklet and since I'm not one of those people who has all the peel sessions on c90s its an absolute treasure trove for me. Skipped straight to first Fall session I ever heard which was circa Frenz Experiment 1987 and its as blistering and sonically exciting as I remember if not more so....and wipes the floor with the LP versions. Its on hearing this monstrous noise, particularly 'Australians In Europe' that something clicked in my 14 year old brain...indie didn't *have* to mean tinny production values and skinny boys in raincoats (this was the days of the Mighty Lemon Drops and the C86 brigade remember) I never looked back. Also today bought the Stereolab box-set as well which collects EP tracks and some unreleased/rare stuff (a few surprises even for someone who thought he'd pretty much heard their entire catalogue) plus a DVD for #12ukp. Should keep me busy for a wee while...... Keith Knight wrote: > I hefted the Fall Peel Sessions in HMV this evening. It's a piece of > work - looks highly impressive and I found myself wanting it more than I > knew but didn't buy it. Yet. > > Another the Keith > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-idealcopy@smoe.org [mailto:owner-idealcopy@smoe.org] On > Behalf Of Tear Alistair (ST) > > > -ordered the Peel sessions today > > A ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2005 13:55:36 +0200 From: Bart van Damme Subject: Re: [idealcopy] A long way from Tramway > Exactly 1 year today since Wire's last gig. Linking in > with the recent thread on chance operations, I put up > this chance derived image on flickr to mark the > occasion: > http://www.flickr.com/photos/55867717@N00/11582899/ > Printer ink depletion bled the boys dry Nice one Fergus! Is it just me or do I see a headless cow (2nd from the right) here? ;-) Bart ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2005 07:02:08 -0500 From: "David McKenzie" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] |OT| randomness redux Cage, in particular was not an improviser. His music was indeterminately composed, but the performance was not. Improvisation, while having the possibility of sounding random, is based on a pre-determined theme or motif which is generally not random. Probably the key difference is that improvisation is concerned with performance, while indeterminacy is a method of composition. If one was to reference an oblique strategy , or throw dice to determine notes and instruments each player used real time, you would have random performance. Failing that, you can only improvise. Interestingly enough, I know of a few algorithmic compositional tools which can play in real time. That would be the closest thing to a random performance. Miles Davis was not an indeterminate person. He may have been apathetic at times for various reasons (one of my favorite live pieces from the Isle of Wight festival appears on the album as "Call it Anything", which I imagine was his response to the recording engineer) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2005 07:02:08 -0500 From: "David McKenzie" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] |OT| randomness redux Cage, in particular was not an improviser. His music was indeterminately composed, but the performance was not. Improvisation, while having the possibility of sounding random, is based on a pre-determined theme or motif which is generally not random. Probably the key difference is that improvisation is concerned with performance, while indeterminacy is a method of composition. If one was to reference an oblique strategy , or throw dice to determine notes and instruments each player used real time, you would have random performance. Failing that, you can only improvise. Interestingly enough, I know of a few algorithmic compositional tools which can play in real time. That would be the closest thing to a random performance. Miles Davis was not an indeterminate person. He may have been apathetic at times for various reasons (one of my favorite live pieces from the Isle of Wight festival appears on the album as "Call it Anything", which I imagine was his response to the recording engineer) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2005 06:38:27 -0700 (PDT) From: Ari Subject: [idealcopy] David wrote....... >>(one of my favorite live pieces from the Isle of Wight festival appears on the album as "Call it Anything", which I imaginewas his response to the recording engineer) << It was..... sez so on the dvd.... Ari Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2005 11:35:32 EDT From: Eardrumbuz@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] |OT| randomness redux In a message dated 4/30/05 8:10:34 AM, ray0graph@ameritech.net writes: > > Probably the key difference is that improvisation is concerned with > performance, while indeterminacy is a method of composition. > that is a key distinction right there. well put. real time random performance would be a cool one to pull off. i can imagine the method making for an interesting part of the performance, as well as having a profound effect on the tempo :o) i've thought about it for many years but have never attempted it. my favorite idea involves having cheerleaders hold up signs with letters on them (a through g with all the #'s and b's thrown in...and pulled at random, of course) for the marching band. the miles davis quote (if it was his. again, i can't recall exactly who said it) about playing inside before you can play outside was definitely about improvisation. essentially, he was just saying that one needs to learn all the theory, mechanics, etc first. - -paul c.d. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2005 12:45:57 EDT From: Eardrumbuz@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] |OT| randomness redux In a message dated 4/30/05 11:44:23 AM, Eardrumbuz@aol.com writes: > my favorite idea involves having cheerleaders > thought i'd nip this one before ari or bart do!! :o) you dirty ol men - -another the paul ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2005 19:26:07 +0200 From: Bart van Damme Subject: Re: [idealcopy] |OT| randomness redux >> my favorite idea involves having cheerleaders > thought i'd nip this one before ari or bart do!! > > :o) > > you dirty ol men > > -another the paul Why I'd never!!! ;-) Great idea though Paul... Bart ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2005 14:00:21 EDT From: Eardrumbuz@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] A long way from Tramway In a message dated 4/30/05 8:06:28 AM, bartvandamme@home.nl writes: > > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/55867717@N00/11582899/ > > > Printer ink depletion bled the boys dry > > Nice one Fergus! Is it just me or do I see > a headless cow (2nd from the right) here? ;-) > i'll second that. the "nice one fergus" part. as for the cow, i think the guy on the far left used the instrument in the upper right to decapitate the poor thing..while the blokes on either side turned away...as if they didn't know what was going on. for shame. :o) -another the paul ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2005 12:20:39 -0700 (PDT) From: Ari Subject: Re: [idealcopy] |OT| randomness redux - --- Bart van Damme wrote: > >> my favorite idea involves having cheerleaders > > > thought i'd nip this one before ari or bart do!! > > > > :o) > > > > you dirty ol men > > > > -another the paul > > > Why I'd never!!! ;-) > > Great idea though Paul... > > Bart ..... and actually I nearly did respond as such.... darn mindreader you....... Ari Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2005 22:03:54 +0200 From: Bart van Damme Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Rorschaching Rules! >>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/55867717@N00/11582899/ >> >>> Printer ink depletion bled the boys dry >> >> Nice one Fergus! Is it just me or do I see >> a headless cow (2nd from the right) here? ;-) >> > i'll second that. the "nice one fergus" part. as for the cow, i think the guy > on the far left used the instrument in the upper right to decapitate the poor > thing..while the blokes on either side turned away...as if they didn't know > what was going on. for shame. > > :o) -another the paul Wow, I think we just came up with excellent inspirational material for a new song here Paul. Rorschaching rules! (...that ain't a bad title either!) On a similar subject, one of my favourite painters, the German Gerhard Richter used a technique which consisted of rubbing 2 paintings or sheets against each other creating something resembling Rohrschach images. Though it's not really chance that's at work here you can see Richter's aiming for similar (semi)unpredictable results. http://www.ludorff.com/aus113.html http://www.gerhard-richter.com "Mr. Chance" of course must be Uebersurrealist Andre Breton who pioneered in psychic automatism and automatic writing. Breton puts it like this: "The true functioning of thought. The dictation of thought, in the absence of all control by reason, excluding any aesthetic or moral preoccupation" Almost like expressionism in reverse! More excellent material on Automatic Writing: http://www.socialfiction.org/automaticwriting.html Bart ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2005 22:03:42 EDT From: Eardrumbuz@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Rorschaching Rules! In a message dated 4/30/05 4:11:38 PM, bartvandamme@home.nl writes: > Rorschaching rules! (...that ain't a bad title either!) > i like it. i especially like double meanings, so it's a good one. > On a similar subject, one of my favourite painters, the German Gerhard > Richter used a technique which consisted of rubbing 2 paintings or sheets > against each other creating something resembling Rohrschach images. > Though it's not really chance that's at work here you can see Richter's > aiming for similar (semi)unpredictable results. > http://www.ludorff.com/aus113.html > http://www.gerhard-richter.com > haven't looked at enough of his work. will have to check out the links > "Mr. Chance" of course must be Uebersurrealist Andre Breton who pioneered > in > psychic automatism and automatic writing. Breton puts it like this: > "The true functioning of thought. The dictation of thought, in the absence > of all control by reason, excluding any aesthetic or moral preoccupation" > Almost like expressionism in reverse! > i always had my suspicions about the surrealists. as much as i love their work (and i love a lot of it very much), some of their automatic writings, individual and group work, like exquisite corpses seem too good. i think either they were very comfortable and familiar with each other (knowing somewhat what to expect from each other)... or there was some cheating going on :o) - -another the paul ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V8 #115 *******************************