From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V8 #114 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Saturday, April 30 2005 Volume 08 : Number 114 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [idealcopy] OT John Cage/this is better........ [Ari ] [idealcopy] |OT| randomness redux [near_0@comcast.net] [idealcopy] Re: OT Oblique Cage ["Garry Phillipson" ] Re: [idealcopy] |OT| randomness redux [Eardrumbuz@aol.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2005 02:34:27 -0700 (PDT) From: Ari Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT John Cage/this is better........ http://tinyurl.com/bbxec - --- Bart van Damme wrote: > This made me curious Paul and looked it up. Seems > your professor has been > making some subway drawings of his own very > recently. > > http://www.artnet.com/artwork/424187140/William_Anastasi_Subway_drawing_Le_L > ong_Gallery_090305.html > > More: > http://www.artnet.com/artist/1477/William_Anastasi.html > (the one with the hand reminds me of Wire's Send > cover) > > Bart > > > > > what a great story, david! i'm sure cage would've > gotten a real kick out of > > the event! i remember those circle paintings, too. > my favorite visual work of > > his was a small drawing (can't remember if it was > pen or pencil) of scribbly > > lines that seemed to emanate from a horizon. i > think it may have been created > > by holding the drawing tool against the paper and > allowing the lines to be > > created by an outside force (such as sitting on a > moving train). a > > contemporary of his turned me on to that process > and i had been trying out > > different drawing tools, vehicles (trains, buses, > planes), and postures around > > the time i saw his show. none of my drawings were > as beautiful as his. he > > either sat on a train for a very long time or his > movements weren't quite so > > random! ;o) > > > > > > actually, my former professor may be a good source > for garry's research. his > > name is william anastasi. i think he still lives > in ny. Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2005 11:28:55 +0000 From: near_0@comcast.net Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Oblique Strategies Bill Laswell released an album called "divination - akasha" but I cannot provide the details as why it was so titled, apart from the liner notes indicating "Title inspired by Ira Cohen." His work has never impressed me as involving randomness. - --billE __..--=-=*|/'..'\|*=-=---..__ home.comcast.net/~near_0/ > So anyway, I'm writing a thesis about divination and tried to get an > interview with Brian Eno about the oracle cards, 'Oblique Strategies', that > he & Peter Schmidt devised. It doesn't look as if I'm going to get anywhere > on that front - and I can't grumble, I'm sure if I was Eno I wouldn't want > to talk to me either. But I'm wondering if there are any other musicians I > might talk to, who use some kind of system for introducing 'random' elements > into their work. Any suggestions? In fact I wonder if Gilbert and/or Lewis > might. Obviously they like strange concepts as starting points, but do they > use some method to knock their work off the rails once they've started? > Suggestions gratefully received... > GarryP ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2005 11:36:53 +0000 From: near_0@comcast.net Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT John Cage/this is better........ I find that nothing helps break up the monotony of a dirty dingy unkempt subway station than purple marker scribbled on paper. - --bE __..--=-=*|/'..'\|*=-=---..__ home.comcast.net/~near_0/ > http://tinyurl.com/bbxec > --- Bart van Damme wrote: > > This made me curious Paul and looked it up. Seems > > your professor has been > > making some subway drawings of his own very > > recently. > > > > > http://www.artnet.com/artwork/424187140/William_Anastasi_Subway_drawing_Le_L > > ong_Gallery_090305.html > > > > More: > > > http://www.artnet.com/artist/1477/William_Anastasi.html > > (the one with the hand reminds me of Wire's Send > > cover) > > > > Bart > > > > > > > > > what a great story, david! i'm sure cage would've > > gotten a real kick out of > > > the event! i remember those circle paintings, too. > > my favorite visual work of > > > his was a small drawing (can't remember if it was > > pen or pencil) of scribbly > > > lines that seemed to emanate from a horizon. i > > think it may have been created > > > by holding the drawing tool against the paper and > > allowing the lines to be > > > created by an outside force (such as sitting on a > > moving train). a > > > contemporary of his turned me on to that process > > and i had been trying out > > > different drawing tools, vehicles (trains, buses, > > planes), and postures around > > > the time i saw his show. none of my drawings were > > as beautiful as his. he > > > either sat on a train for a very long time or his > > movements weren't quite so > > > random! ;o) > > > > > > > > > actually, my former professor may be a good source > > for garry's research. his > > > name is william anastasi. i think he still lives > > in ny. > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2005 13:34:04 +0200 From: Bart van Damme Subject: [idealcopy] [OT] Robin Rimbaud/Scanner Coming Sunday primetime on VPRO's weekly artshow R.A.M.: Robin Rimbaud. He'll probably tell about "Heavenly Soundscapes", his concert for The Holland Festival on June 16, 18 & 19 in which he'll use some Bach cantatas. Though Githead is not mentioned on the website, it would be nice if Robin would during the interview. http://tinyurl.com/age7y (that ok, Ari?) Bart ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2005 13:04:43 +0100 From: "Tear Alistair (ST)" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] [OT] Robin Rimbaud/Scanner and I'm told that... 'By the way, did you know that Colin Newman is a guest on the next programme of 'Scratching the Service', Radio Resonance, 8.30pm, a week on Tuesday.' A > -----Original Message----- > From: Bart van Damme [mailto:bartvandamme@home.nl] > Sent: 29 April 2005 12:34 > To: IdealCopy > Subject: [idealcopy] [OT] Robin Rimbaud/Scanner > > > Coming Sunday primetime on VPRO's weekly artshow R.A.M.: > Robin Rimbaud. > > He'll probably tell about "Heavenly Soundscapes", his concert for The > Holland Festival on June 16, 18 & 19 in which he'll use some > Bach cantatas. > > Though Githead is not mentioned on the website, it would be > nice if Robin > would during the interview. > > http://tinyurl.com/age7y (that ok, Ari?) > > Bart > ************************************************************************* The contents of the e-mail and any transmitted files are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. Transport for London Street Management hereby excludes any warranty and any liability as to the quality or accuracy of the contents of this e-mail and any attached transmitted files. 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This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept for the presence of computer viruses. ************************************************************************* ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2005 05:39:38 -0700 (PDT) From: Ari Subject: Re: [idealcopy] [OT] Robin Rimbaud/Scanner - --- Bart van Damme wrote: > Coming Sunday primetime on VPRO's weekly artshow > R.A.M.: Robin Rimbaud. > > He'll probably tell about "Heavenly Soundscapes", > his concert for The > Holland Festival on June 16, 18 & 19 in which he'll > use some Bach cantatas. > > Though Githead is not mentioned on the website, it > would be nice if Robin > would during the interview. > > http://tinyurl.com/age7y (that ok, Ari?) > > Bart Oh I SUPPOSE so...... darn it. Ari Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2005 05:43:56 -0700 (PDT) From: Ari Subject: [idealcopy] Ho Hum............ near_0@comcast.net wrote >>I find that nothing helps break up the monotony of a dirty dingy unkempt subway station than purple marker scribbled on paper.<< SO IT WAS YOU,YOU FIEND!! Now go scrub it off,there's a good boy. Ari (at home today having spent all day yesterday in E.R (yep,it's that darn heart again) - --bE __..--=-=*|/'..'\|*=-=---..__ home.comcast.net/~near_0/ > http://tinyurl.com/bbxec Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2005 14:21:12 +0000 From: near_0@comcast.net Subject: [idealcopy] |OT| randomness redux Garry wrote: >But I'm wondering if there are any other musicians I might talk to, who use some kind of system for introducing 'random' elements > into their work. Any suggestions? Check out Bill Nelson's "Chance Encounters in the Garden of Light" for another take on randomness. This review [ www.headheritage.co.uk/unsung/review/959 ] on Julian Cope's site 'splains it nicely: "The whole set appears to owe a debt to the visualization and evocatory explorations of the occultic innovator Austin Osman Spare, with a quote from his writings featured in the liner notes that reads: 'The Way of heaven is a purpose - anterior to and not induced by thought. Desire, other than the act, shall in no wise obtain: Therefore believe SYMBOLICALLY or with caution. Art is love. Wisdom and folly is a difference of degree.'" If you can stand a hint of goat, I'd also throw any of the frippertronics cds in there, as the loops, effects and guitar combine in unplanned ways. I'd call any free jazz, harmolodics etc random but that's just me. Sometimes the line between random and improvised is hard to draw. - --bE __..--=-=*|/'..'\|*=-=---..__ home.comcast.net/~near_0/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2005 17:11:11 +0100 From: "Garry Phillipson" Subject: [idealcopy] Re: OT Oblique Cage Paul mused: "...what new artists make use of chance operations in their music/lyric writing? i'd love to know who/what you come up with in your search." There's a bit from an old interview with Eno about using the cards in 'Heroes' here: http://members.ol.com.au/rgriffin/GoldenYears/Heroes.html This page mentions a couple of other decks... http://www.creativesynth.com/OPINIONS/001_CreativeCards/op_CreativeCards.html and this http://www.rtqe.net/ObliqueStrategies/ is a whole site dedicated to oblique strategies. ... and it also makes a connection to the use of cards (or something similar) in dadaism and surrealism. Jeepers, I could have a whole new thesis on my hands here. Probably I should look at artists in the broad sense, not just musicians. My problem is that musicians are the only ones I know anything about. Anyway, thanks to all for some very interesting feedback. I'll certainly pursue the Cage and dadaist stuff... hmm, interesting material on Cage, Rauschenberg and the I Ching here.... http://www.artic.edu/~pgena/cageMCA.html - but enough links for one post, hmm? Garry ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2005 12:26:53 EDT From: Eardrumbuz@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT John Cage In a message dated 4/29/05 3:20:53 AM, bartvandamme@home.nl writes: > This made me curious Paul and looked it up. Seems your professor has been > making some subway drawings of his own very recently. > > http://www.artnet.com/artwork/424187140/William_Anastasi_Subway_drawing_Le_L > ong_Gallery_090305.html > > More: http://www.artnet.com/artist/1477/William_Anastasi.html > (the one with the hand reminds me of Wire's Send cover) > > yeah, he's the one who got me into the whole thing. he's been doing it since the 60's. he might've introduced the idea to cage (if that's what cage did on the drawing i wrote about), rather than the other way around. - -paul c.d. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2005 10:25:39 -0700 From: "Cambra, Robert" Subject: [idealcopy] Wire 'n' Eno I wasn't able to post to Idealcopy most of last year for technical reasons, so you all were spared my witty observations, bon mots dopey questions. But I've saved them up! Here's one (don't worry, they will be so old they'll seem new): Last July 9th Mark Bursa wrote "Eno's '70s albums are one of the few 'overt' influences I can hear on CM/154, for sure . . ." Mark, that's an interesting observation. They each have such strong identities for me I can't compare them. I'd like to hear more-would you explain? Robert (another) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2005 10:34:09 -0700 From: "Cambra, Robert" Subject: [idealcopy] Git Videos and stuff I'm using a G4, a G5, Explorer and Safari, and I still can't figure out how to download these Githead videos for keeps. Would someone be so kind as to give me a clue? Thanks, Robert (another) Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2005 20:58:24 -0700 (PDT) From: Andrew Westmeyer Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Githead videos HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!! It took me about a half hour of sleuthing, but I was finally able to find the locations for a direct download of the 3 videos. Here they are: http://www2.thewire.co.uk/video/githead3.mov http://www2.thewire.co.uk/video/githeadLIVEonea.mov http://www2.thewire.co.uk/video/githeadLIVEtwoa.mov ****************************************************** CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This E-Mail is intended only for the use of the individual or entity to whom it is addressed and may contain information that is privileged, confidential and exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you have received this communication in error, please do not distribute and delete the original message. Please notify the sender by E-Mail at the address shown. Thank you for your compliance. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2005 10:56:46 -0700 (PDT) From: Ari Subject: [idealcopy] billIE wrote.............. Bill Laswell released an album called "divination - akasha" but I cannot provide the details as why it was so titled, apart from the liner notes indicating "Title inspired by Ira Cohen." - --billE >>His work has never impressed me as involving randomness.<< Got to agree here Joel, too structured for random, but then who knows? maybe out of randomness comes structure viz a viz out of chaos comes order? Ari - --billE Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2005 15:06:42 EDT From: Eardrumbuz@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] |OT| randomness redux In a message dated 4/29/05 10:33:57 AM, near_0@comcast.net writes: > > If you can stand a hint of goat, I'd also throw any of the frippertronics > cds in there, as the loops, effects and guitar combine in unplanned ways. > > I'd call any free jazz, harmolodics etc random but that's just me. > > Sometimes the line between random and improvised is hard to draw. > i think it comes down to intent. i like frippertronics, but i don't think fripp's intent was to experience chance happenings. i think he works within a structure where the results are somewhat known because of the notes he's playing. same thing with improv jazz. i can't remember whose quote it was (possibly miles davis) but it went something like "you have to know how to play inside in order to play outside" and with that in mind i would say that jazz artists have certain expectations when improvising. they know what key they're playing in and what the basic song structure is, and they travel to some other point(s) from there. unexpected things may happen, but (generally speaking) they're not leaving what each or any player is producing up to chance. - -paul c.d. ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V8 #114 *******************************