From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V8 #77 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Tuesday, March 22 2005 Volume 08 : Number 077 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [idealcopy] OT-Julee Cruise w/Pluramon , New Order ["Mileta Okiljevic" ] Re: [idealcopy] OT-Julee Cruise w/Pluramon , New Order and HoL ["Mileta O] [idealcopy] OT-Eno ["Mileta Okiljevic" ] Re: [idealcopy] OT-Julee Cruise w/Pluramon , New Order and HoL [Andrew Wa] Re: [idealcopy] re Three Years!! [CHRISWIRE@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] Re: NO NO NO! (Was Comebacks) [Tim Subject: [idealcopy] OT-Julee Cruise w/Pluramon , New Order anyone saw them recently? Is it worth of going..? in just few days Julee, Jonathan Richman and Damo Suzuki.. btw, as big fan of New Order i must say, that i am not very happy with new one.. first half of album is so-so, but second half sound like fillling b-sides to singles.. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2005 02:51:01 -0800 (PST) From: Fergus Kelly Subject: [idealcopy] A new unknown horizon Ian B queried the horizontal hold on TSP... this link might answer your question.. it's fairly exhaustive, so I've only had a quick glance, but I had the same problem with the disc, something to do with the TV/DVD combination, relating to the way the set-up is reading the framing, as there's different ways systems convert NTSC to pseudo pal... eh..don't ask, I don't fully understand it either.. bit of a minefield to me. I have to say, it didn't sufficiently disrupt my considerable viewing pleasure to actually do anything about it :) But good to know anyway.. http://www.dvddemystified.com/dvdfaq.html#7.1 On the subject of Robin "Scan Man" Rimbaud, and who he reminds people of, I always thought there was a touch of Ewen Bremner about him... Fergus "There is no future as the present is too volatile" William Gibson "The future is boring" JG Ballard __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site! http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2005 12:47:29 -0000 From: "Keith A" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT-Julee Cruise w/Pluramon , New Order > btw, as big fan of New Order i must say, that i am not very > happy with new one.. > first half of album is so-so, but second half sound like fillling b-sides > to singles.. Not heard the album yet, but the single sure is a grower. It sounded fairly unremarkable at first, but old habits die hard so I bought the bugger. Love the intro - that early 80's like-beat, Hooky's basslines. Great. Super. As they'd say in Reggie Perrin). And the minimalistic Glimmer mix which strips things down and places the emphahis on the drums (and with a few added bloopy noises) make it sound almost Krautrock! K. np Suicide - American Supreme ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2005 15:13:43 +0100 From: "Mileta Okiljevic" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT-Julee Cruise w/Pluramon , New Order From: "Keith A" > Not heard the album yet, but the single sure is a grower. It sounded fairly > unremarkable at first, but old habits die hard so I bought the bugger. Love > the intro - that early 80's like-beat, Hooky's basslines. Great. Super. As > they'd say in Reggie Perrin). And the minimalistic Glimmer mix which strips > things down and places the emphahis on the drums (and with a few added > bloopy noises) make it sound almost Krautrock! > > K. > > np Suicide - American Supreme > Yes, feel same about Krafty. I was so unpatient about album and when i heard first song i was so excited. Start like many NO songs at first, somehow lazy, but when came to refrain it explode, great melody,hooky...but it seems like highlight of album, it is my impression after 5-6 listen..unfortunately last few songs of album sound like low point of whole NO career..in one moment i had feeling like listening The Corrs ;-) I know that something's going wrong when heard that No are hanging with Gwen Steffany and Scissor Sisters there was a rumours that NO will play EXIT festival in july in Novi Sad, Serbia and if that will be true you can listen directly via BBC . They will broadcast whole event. np Portrait Of David - These Days Are Hard To Ignore (Glitterhouse) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2005 14:19:09 -0000 From: "Keith A" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT-Julee Cruise w/Pluramon , New Order > last few songs of album sound like low point of whole NO career..in one > moment i had feeling like listening The Corrs ;-) And I read elsewhere that one track sounded like Ace of Bass!! Hmm. Can't wait to buy this now! ; ) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2005 15:41:31 +0100 From: "Mileta Okiljevic" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT-Julee Cruise w/Pluramon , New Order - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Keith A" > > last few songs of album sound like low point of whole NO career..in one > > moment i had feeling like listening The Corrs ;-) > > And I read elsewhere that one track sounded like Ace of Bass!! > > Hmm. Can't wait to buy this now! ; ) > Yeah, i know that song. what Mark B.will said - sub reggae..;-) ermm, it is Ace Of Base best ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2005 09:52:55 EST From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT-Julee Cruise w/Pluramon , New Order >>Yeah, i know that song. what Mark B.will said - sub reggae..;-) ermm, it is Ace Of Base<< The cod reggae track fills me with Dread, and not of the Natty variety. Having said that, New Order's one previous attempt at reggae (the Peel session cover of Keith Hudson's Turn the heater up) was genuinely interesting. But that was 23 years ago. Hmm.... Mark ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2005 15:28:16 -0000 From: "Ian B" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] A new unknown horizon Many thanks for the link Fergus; agreed - it didn't severely dent my viewing pleasure as it only occurs on a few occassions. One nice little extra would have been the In the Art of Stopping video; but maybe I'm just being greedy now. Ian B - ----- Original Message ----- From: Fergus Kelly To: ideal copy Sent: Monday, March 21, 2005 10:51 AM Subject: [idealcopy] A new unknown horizon > Ian B queried the horizontal hold on TSP... ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2005 17:06:07 +0100 From: "Mileta Okiljevic" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT-Julee Cruise w/Pluramon , New Order and HoL I heard from Jo, administrator of 4AD at first how good NO is. Then she said same thing about House Of Love comeback..to be honest i didn't even know about it. From her words Terri is back in band..is it true? And since i was more fond about Levitation than HOL, and she said "new" HOL sound more like HOL without Bickers i am in serious doubt.. in fact i decide to go see Julee Cruise and Pluramon, what i heard owe more to My Bloody Valentine and shoegaze than Badalamenti and electronic music. Also, saw that names like Mogwai, Sonic Youth are featuring on Pluramon remix album and i hope will be available on gig. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2005 17:11:28 +0100 From: "Mileta Okiljevic" Subject: [idealcopy] OT-Eno i did not contribute to list very often, but today i am with my PC this one i got via ENO list, i hope some will find interesting Last week I saw Olivier Assayas's new film CLEAN starring Maggie Cheung and Nick Nolte. Assayas answered questions after the screening. Someone asked him about his "collaboration" with Brian Eno on the soundtrack. (As previously noted on EnoWeb, the score is Eno-heavy with "Taking Tiger Mountain", "Third Uncle", "Spider and I", "Stars", "Ending", "Lost Day" and "The Jezebel Spirit" all used.) Assayas said that he had been an Eno fan as a teenager and rediscovered his work when he was filming CLEAN. Somehow the songs fused into his creative consciousness and he saw them as a natural part of the film. He wrote Eno a fan letter but never had any direct contact with him. The letter "ended up on some manager's desk," and the use of the songs became strictly a matter of money-per-minute. Assayas said his producer is still angry with him at the amount of money they had to spend for the Eno material and that there would have been more of it in the film if he could have afforded it. David Roback of Mazzy Star plays himself in the movie and worked on some original songs with Maggie Cheung. Tricky also plays himself (very unflatteringly). There is a soundtrack CD that is supposedly out in Canada but I haven't seen it and have no idea if the Eno cuts are featured. Assayas says that the movie will be released in the U.S. in September. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2005 16:45:02 +0000 From: Andrew Walkingshaw Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT-Julee Cruise w/Pluramon , New Order and HoL On Mon, Mar 21, 2005 at 05:06:07PM +0100, Mileta Okiljevic wrote: > I heard from Jo, administrator of 4AD at first > how good NO is. Then she said same thing > about House Of Love comeback..to be honest > i didn't even know about it. From her words > Terri is back in band..is it true? Terry Bickers is. It sounds like a less-compelling version of the Fontana record. It's alright, pretty good in fact, but not exactly life-changing. - - Andrew ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2005 14:19:22 EST From: CHRISWIRE@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] re Three Years!! In a message dated 20/03/2005 18:29:57 GMT Standard Time, PaulRabjohn@aol.com writes: /////////is that unrivalled tedium? all it needs is shed seven , tim booth and kosheen to get the complete set of shite festival turns. p You old cynic Paul !! Chris ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2005 01:11:26 +0000 From: Tim Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: NO NO NO! (Was Comebacks) Wireviews wrote: > :: Not so. DM around that time employed three > musicians to > :: manually play synths. And that was what Kraftwerk > was doing > :: in 1975. What NO did was integrate the > gtr/bass/drums stuff and > :: the electronics in a totally original way, while > constantly > :: upgrading their gear - and then performing it live. > > You could probably argue that Gary Numan was doing > this in the commercial side before New Order > (combining live instruments and synths); you can > definitely say OMD was doing thisI remember seeing > videos of live gigs from circa 1981, with synths, > pre-programmed tapes, live drums, electronic drums and > live bass guitar. Yes but New Order did it in a more obscure, and downright bloody-minded/hamfisted way. They were the whole package...The music was often fizzy and poppy and wonderfully at odds with the tetchy interviews, the rumours, the myths, insisting on playing live on TOTP, the strange scally/student mix of their audience the blurry sleeves with only a FAC number to identify them and most of all the element of mystery and surprise...(the latter which they share with Wire) OK OMD had a similar sound and the same graphic design, but their singer had curly hair and danced like a Geography Teacher (as Smash Hits wonderfully put it) DM tried far too hard to shake of their teen band image. All three had a pretty much faultless run of pop singles in the 80s, although only New Order are still 'cool'....DM are a bit too mired in leather kecks and all that gothic shlock still. Gary Numan is somewhere else entirely. I saw some live show of his on telly years ago and he was in a sort of rotating spaceship at one point and its one of those things that makes me have a fit of giggles whenever I think about it...I think its the serious look on his face as his fibreglass spacepod starts to revolve. Top bloke by all accounts though. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2005 01:35:07 +0000 From: Tim Subject: Re: [idealcopy] That BBC Wire Mole at it again PaulRabjohn@aol.com wrote: > next weds 10.00 wire headlining jane gazzo on R6. presumably that could well > mean the WHOLE camber sands set..................... > > p > > Tuned in tonight to hear Stereolab 'headlining' but it was Republica instead. (gawd knows who would ever want to hear them ever again in this enlightened age?) How does this show work? Do the 'headliners' appear first? And which Camber Sands show are we talking about..is it the one I saw (an excellent and energetic 'greatest hits' set with an amazing 'Drill') or the later one which presumably is going to be all R&B/Send material? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2005 01:51:47 +0000 From: Tim Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: NO NO NO! (Was Comebacks) >>NO seemed to be able to master 80s gear in a way that hasn't really > > dated. > >>They achieved great results when pushing new technology, rather than now, > > when > >>the "New Order sound" can be very simply achieved. > > > Sorry, you don't have to love them to accept that FGTH and Trevor Horne were > pretty much on the techno ball, Welcome to The Pleasuredome and the first Propaganda record are both (flawed) masterpieces. and I don't think that was because of any > groundbreaking stuff happening in Manchester. You even mentioned Kraftwerk, > for which I thank you, as they truly deserve acknowledgement. > Legend has it that in 1982 Martin Hannett wanted Factory to re-invest some of the JD/NO profits into buying a Fairlight for New Order.....Rob Gretton felt the money would be better spent on building the Hacienda. Who knows what may have happened if Hannett had his way....OK Acid House may never have happened but then maybe Martin and New Order would have pushed the Fairlight beyond Trevor Horne's wildest dreams and invented something beyond Acid House and we'd all be wearing silver suits and travelling to work on hoverboards by now. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2005 20:28:47 -0800 From: "Paul Pietromonaco" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] A new unknown horizon > Ian B queried the horizontal hold on TSP... Just FYI, I noticed this problem on a 100% pure NTSC set. (i.e. American playback chain - no PAL conversion.) I'm thinking it's a mastering or video mixing error of some sort. Or, maybe an artistic effect. It doesn't bother me, but it does make me curious. Cheers, Paul ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2005 03:46:00 -0500 From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: NO NO NO! (Was Comebacks) >Legend has it that in 1982 Martin Hannett wanted Factory to re-invest >some of the JD/NO profits into buying a Fairlight for New Order.....Rob >Gretton felt the money would be better spent on building the Hacienda. > /////in this months MOJO a rather different tale is told , that the band were deep in the shit with a huge tax bill , and they managed to offset the tax they owed against the property development scheme that was the hacienda. somehow this seems to ring true , although obviously a much less interesting story ;-) p ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2005 03:50:50 -0500 From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] That BBC Wire Mole at it again >How does this show work? Do the 'headliners' appear first? And which >Camber Sands show are we talking about..is it the one I saw (an >excellent and energetic 'greatest hits' set with an amazing 'Drill') or >the later one which presumably is going to be all R&B/Send material? //////well i suppose the headliner goes on last , it used to work that way. the show R6 definitely have on tape is the first ATP show (greatest hits plus "he knows" and "drill"). they've played 4 songs from this set twice , i'm hoping (and it seems reasonable) that this time they'll play the whole show. of course they might have another show on tape by now , but i'd doubt it. fingers crossed. tough shit staying up for stereolab and getting republica , what a waste of tape that band were. p ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2005 01:27:40 -0800 From: fernando Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT-Julee Cruise w/Pluramon , New Order On first listen, I thought it was a dud... all around. Some tracks, while listening to it in the background, had "bits" that stood out. Having loved "Behind Closed Doors" I was hoping for one track to be like it. Just one. No go (may be that should have been the title of this album). Still, after a few more background listens, things began to click. I attribute it to two things: (1) they fucked up my tastes in music for so many years, it is not reversible and (2) I am just getting old and putting things into context ("a this is just a fun track, and it is fun"). So, aside from "the rocker" last track (an attempt to fix "Rock the Schack"?), I enjoy it. I just read how Peter Saville wanted to use a "live" version of the PC&L cover for this album... and good that Bernard shot him down on that. It would have tainted the proper memory of what PC&L did. In trying to figure out why Wire remain essential in their reunions, I guess the difference with New Order was that the solo stuff was merely ego and not having to do anything with experimentation, so when getting back together, they still speak the same language. Back to the album. I am glad that the backing vocals from previous songs are gone. I like the girl from Scissor Sisters (I think that is the name) job here. While the album is good for driving, I find the synth work on "Useless Emotion" quite addictive, though it does not reaches the heights of Perfect Kiss layering, it is a cool song. The title track I find is a return to classic New Order, albeit with the lyrics still suffering from the post-Get Ready hangover (can't stand 95% of the lyrics there, so I would like to have an instrumental version of that album). It is unnerving how they want to please fans and whatever, but they never had a go at that aspect of the music biz. So, let them do it... I just don't have to be part of it. ;) cheers! - -fernando PS I am just hoping that my daughter's liking of "Jetstream" (Ace of Base track ;) gets her out of the stuff she likes and more into old time New Order. Then, OK> On Mar 21, 2005, at 4:47 AM, Keith A wrote: > Not heard the album yet, but the single sure is a grower. It sounded > fairly > unremarkable at first, but old habits die hard so I bought the bugger. ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V8 #77 ******************************