From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V7 #347 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Thursday, December 2 2004 Volume 07 : Number 347 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [idealcopy] SHELLAC shots [Fergus Kelly ] Re: [idealcopy] OT: Van der Graaf Generator reform [Derek White Subject: [idealcopy] SHELLAC shots Right lads. Some more shots for yiz. Enjoy. http://www.flickr.com/photos/55867717@N00/sets/46376/ Fergus __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The all-new My Yahoo! - What will yours do? http://my.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2004 06:08:45 -0800 (PST) From: Derek White Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT: Van der Graaf Generator reform Exceptions can be John Fogerty and Neil Halstead (doing Slowdive songs), but I am not clear on those two. may be this is considered an anorak question/topic... gasp! //// Why not? Wasn't it also one John Fogerty that fronted ancient chart-friendly swamp-rockers Creedence Clearwater Revival ? I'm nearly sure he was the singer, with surely one of THE most recognisable voices in pop/rock, but he too was another 'hold-out' against doing stuff from past repertoire:- I don't *think* he ever went near the CCR catalogue, and nor did the rest of the band to my knowledge. Odd, considering the number of records they sold in the late 60's & early 70's....................... Read only the mail you want - Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2004 06:24:46 -0800 (PST) From: Derek White Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT: Van der Graaf Genarator reform fernando wrote: I am not that old to have seen them by the mid 70s. (That said, I am not young either!) Well, that and being in Puerto Rico while a kid did not bring much chances to see live bands... and they did not play there. I will definitely go with an open mind, although obscured by the fact that I have sampled a bit of their music (solo and group), and it is not my cup of tea. Every time that I hear a bit of their music, I cannot help but to imagine Spinal Tap. (?!?!?!?!?!) ///// NO ! NO ! NO !............. They are definitely NOT Spinal Tap, Fernando m' friend..... I saw the 'classic' Hammill / Jackson / Banton / Evans three times between their 1974 re-union, and their eventual split, and I can honestly say that I've never, ever seen another band like them before or since. OK, I was something of a fan to start with, but it was pretty darned unusual to go and see a band in that time period and not see a guitar of any nature onstage for a greater part of the set:- the 'frontline' instruments being mainly a hammond organ and two saxes or a flute, with occasional clavinet/electric piano. To say the performances were intense is an understatement, and while I can certainly appreciate that they are something of a minority taste, even their detractors would probably have to admit that they were skating out over the thin ice somewhat with their unique sound and approach. I went along with avowed VDGG-haters to a couple of the gigs I saw, and while they didn't exactly come back humming "A Plague of Lighthouse-Keepers" or rushing out to buy their collected works, they all came back with markedly less dismissive opinions. If you go with an open mind, who knows, you may enjoy it.......but no Spinal-Tap preconceptions, eh ? dw Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 01 Dec 2004 10:06:29 -0500 From: HowardJSpencer@aol.com Subject: [idealcopy] To have and to hold Bought The Wire this month for the free CDs (reassuring to see that the magazine is as turgid as ever) and gave it a listen - without having the tracklist with me. Was extremely well struck by CD 1, track 2 ... and didn't realise who it was by until I finally caught up on my idealcopies last night. It's nice to have prejudices confirmed once in a while. On listening again I'm concerned about my hearing, as the fact that the voice is Colin's is as obvious as a pair of Doberman's bollocks. Anyway, it's a great track and I'm off to buy the Githead EP - an exception to the moratorium I've put on CD buying until I work out where to put all the others in my tiny new flat. Has anyone got that Posteverything 3 vol electronic compilation that's going for #25? Another one that might be worth making room for. Howard ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2004 09:27:46 -0600 From: "dan bailey" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT: Van der Graaf Generator reform > Exceptions can be John Fogerty and Neil Halstead (doing Slowdive > songs), but I am not clear on those two. > > may be this is considered an anorak question/topic... gasp! > > > > //// Why not? Wasn't it also one John Fogerty that fronted ancient chart-friendly swamp-rockers Creedence Clearwater Revival ? I'm nearly sure he was the singer, with surely one of THE most recognisable voices in pop/rock, but he too was another 'hold-out' against doing stuff from past repertoire:- I don't *think* he ever went near the CCR catalogue, and nor did the rest of the band to my knowledge. i wouldn't know van der graaf generator from a hole in the ground (great mekons song, though!), but fogerty & ccr are subjects near & dear to my heart -- my first favorite band as a child, & all that. in any event, fogerty's refusal for years to perform any ccr stemmed from his bitterness against his former label, fantasy, which owned the rights to the songs he'd written ... culminating in a landmark trial over his insistence on "plagiarizing himself" (& hence the company-owned original, whichever one it was ... bad moon rising? i'm still waking up) on the solo hit the old man down the road. as for the rest of the band, sometime during the '90s they were back on the road as creedence clearwater revisited with a cars alumus -- elliot easton? -- in fogerty's place. dan > > Odd, considering the number of records they sold in the late 60's & early 70's....................... > Read only the mail you want - Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2004 07:55:00 -0800 From: fernando Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT: Van der Graaf Generator reform On Dec 1, 2004, at 6:08 AM, Derek White wrote: > Exceptions can be John Fogerty and Neil Halstead (doing Slowdive > songs), but I am not clear on those two. > > may be this is considered an anorak question/topic... gasp! > > > //// Why not? Wasn't it also one John Fogerty that fronted ancient > chart-friendly swamp-rockers Creedence Clearwater Revival ? I'm > nearly sure he was the singer, with surely one of THE most > recognisable voices in pop/rock, but he too was another 'hold-out' > against doing stuff from past repertoire:- I don't *think* he ever > went near the CCR catalogue, and nor did the rest of the band to my > knowledge. > > Odd, considering the number of records they sold in the late 60's & > early 70's....................... > As Dan explained, it was the record company battle... however, at some point in the 90s, I think, while doing a free concert in Washington DC with vietnam war veterans, that he broke his refusal and played some tracks... saying something like "you have been fucked for too long"... something like that. But, then, in the 97 tour, he included them on the set. I guess unlike New Order, he did not record for quite a while. So, may Neil Halstead has a longer running block of his back catalogue at the moment. I cannot think of anyone else that blocks successful songs from a past life. cheers! - -fernando ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2004 08:05:14 -0800 From: fernando Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT: Van der Graaf Genarator reform I am sure they are not... Hammill is way skinnier, and they did not have pods/henge in their live shows... or did they? ;) My wife never saw them, even younger than me, though she has seen Hammill some 80 times. She has explained and showed her devotion to this band clearly. It is a matter of my taste... where each song has the same "feel" and do not engage me. I thought that being prog would not be problem, and myself a big Yes fan (but not blind to them, as they did far too much crap, and more fan of the jazzy drumming from Brufrod), but that has not helped me get into them. Not sure that the live experience will change the above, and having heard "Plague" has not helped either... and I tried to endure Goldbluff and countless lyric quotes. Square hole, round peg. Besides, I need a band to keep my wife from feeling she has perfect taste. ;) cheers! On Wed, 1 Dec 2004 06:24:46 -0800 (PST), Derek White wrote: > > > > > > fernando wrote: > > I am not that old to have seen them by the mid 70s. (That said, I am > not young either!) Well, that and being in Puerto Rico while a kid did > not bring much chances to see live bands... and they did not play > there. I will definitely go with an open mind, although obscured by the > fact that I have sampled a bit of their music (solo and group), and it > is not my cup of tea. > > Every time that I hear a bit of their music, I cannot help but to > imagine Spinal Tap. (?!?!?!?!?!) > > > ///// NO ! NO ! NO !............. They are definitely NOT Spinal Tap, > Fernando m' friend..... > > I saw the 'classic' Hammill / Jackson / Banton / Evans three times between > their 1974 re-union, and their eventual split, and I can honestly say that > I've never, ever seen another band like them before or since. OK, I was > something of a fan to start with, but it was pretty darned unusual to go and > see a band in that time period and not see a guitar of any nature onstage > for a greater part of the set:- the 'frontline' instruments being mainly a > hammond organ and two saxes or a flute, with occasional clavinet/electric > piano. > > To say the performances were intense is an understatement, and while I can > certainly appreciate that they are something of a minority taste, even their > detractors would probably have to admit that they were skating out over the > thin ice somewhat with their unique sound and approach. I went along with > avowed VDGG-haters to a couple of the gigs I saw, and while they didn't > exactly come back humming "A Plague of Lighthouse-Keepers" or rushing out to > buy their collected works, they all came back with markedly less dismissive > opinions. > > If you go with an open mind, who knows, you may enjoy it.......but no > Spinal-Tap preconceptions, eh ? dw > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2004 09:14:37 -0800 From: Rex Broome Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT: Van der Graaf Generator reform > As Dan explained, it was the record company battle... however, at some > point in the 90s, I think, while doing a free concert in Washington DC > with vietnam war veterans, that he broke his refusal and played some > tracks... saying something like "you have been fucked for too long"... > something like that. But, then, in the 97 tour, he included them on the > set. I believe he was accused of ripping off "The Old Man Down the Road" from "Run Through the Jungle". Fogerty got sued for sounding too much like himself about the same time Geffen took Neil Young to court for not sounding enough like himself. The '80's, man. - -Rex - -- "Maybe baby election twelve who I really am!" - -Miranda Mellbye Broome ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2004 00:52:46 -0000 From: "Keith Knight" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] OT: Van der Graaf Genarator reform Derek beat me to the punch with his horror at the comparison between VdGG and Spinal Tap. I suspect he and I are the only people here who have seem them live and know how inapposite that comparison is. Interesting how you point out that being a Yes fan hasn't helped in liking them - that's because, although lumped in with Yes and Genesis (both of whom I have time for BTW), VdGG are in fact nothing like them. Or anyone else I can think of. Which is what makes this reunion so enticing for the aficionado. Another the Keith [80 times!!! Ye Gods - I genuflect to Mrs Fernando. I bet she's looking forward to this!!] - -----Original Message----- From: owner-idealcopy@smoe.org [mailto:owner-idealcopy@smoe.org] On Behalf Of fernando Sent: 01 December 2004 16:05 To: Wire-IdealCopy Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT: Van der Graaf Genarator reform I am sure they are not... Hammill is way skinnier, and they did not have pods/henge in their live shows... or did they? ;) My wife never saw them, even younger than me, though she has seen Hammill some 80 times. She has explained and showed her devotion to this band clearly. It is a matter of my taste... where each song has the same "feel" and do not engage me. I thought that being prog would not be problem, and myself a big Yes fan (but not blind to them, as they did far too much crap, and more fan of the jazzy drumming from Brufrod), but that has not helped me get into them. Not sure that the live experience will change the above, and having heard "Plague" has not helped either... and I tried to endure Goldbluff and countless lyric quotes. Square hole, round peg. Besides, I need a band to keep my wife from feeling she has perfect taste. ;) cheers! On Wed, 1 Dec 2004 06:24:46 -0800 (PST), Derek White wrote: > > > > > > fernando wrote: > > I am not that old to have seen them by the mid 70s. (That said, I am > not young either!) Well, that and being in Puerto Rico while a kid did > not bring much chances to see live bands... and they did not play > there. I will definitely go with an open mind, although obscured by the > fact that I have sampled a bit of their music (solo and group), and it > is not my cup of tea. > > Every time that I hear a bit of their music, I cannot help but to > imagine Spinal Tap. (?!?!?!?!?!) > > > ///// NO ! NO ! NO !............. They are definitely NOT Spinal Tap, > Fernando m' friend..... > > I saw the 'classic' Hammill / Jackson / Banton / Evans three times between > their 1974 re-union, and their eventual split, and I can honestly say that > I've never, ever seen another band like them before or since. OK, I was > something of a fan to start with, but it was pretty darned unusual to go and > see a band in that time period and not see a guitar of any nature onstage > for a greater part of the set:- the 'frontline' instruments being mainly a > hammond organ and two saxes or a flute, with occasional clavinet/electric > piano. > > To say the performances were intense is an understatement, and while I can > certainly appreciate that they are something of a minority taste, even their > detractors would probably have to admit that they were skating out over the > thin ice somewhat with their unique sound and approach. I went along with > avowed VDGG-haters to a couple of the gigs I saw, and while they didn't > exactly come back humming "A Plague of Lighthouse-Keepers" or rushing out to > buy their collected works, they all came back with markedly less dismissive > opinions. > > If you go with an open mind, who knows, you may enjoy it.......but no > Spinal-Tap preconceptions, eh ? dw > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V7 #347 *******************************