From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V7 #325 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Tuesday, November 9 2004 Volume 07 : Number 325 Today's Subjects: ----------------- RE: [idealcopy] IBTABA ["Clements, Bruno - BUP" ] Re: [idealcopy] IBTABA [Andrew Walkingshaw ] [idealcopy] IBTABA [Ari ] RE: [idealcopy] IBTABA ["Clements, Bruno - BUP" ] Re: [idealcopy] Githead ["Keith Astbury" ] Re: [idealcopy] RE: The Road ahead is quiteuncertain...Interpol ["Keith A] Re: [idealcopy] RE: The Road ahead is quiteuncertain...Interpol [Derek Wh] Re: [idealcopy] RE: The Road ahead is quiteuncertain...Interpol [Derek Wh] Re: [idealcopy] RE: The Road ahead is quiteuncertain...Interpol [MarkBurs] [idealcopy] Future heads? ["Keith Astbury" ] [idealcopy] [OT] Two new (mainstream) CDs [Paul Pietromonaco ] Re: [idealcopy] Future heads? [PaulRabjohn@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] Future heads? ["Keith Astbury" ] Re: [idealcopy] IBTABA [Rex Broome ] [idealcopy] Wilco Tonite: [Ari ] Re: [idealcopy] IBTABA [Ari ] Re: [idealcopy] IBTABA ["Keith Astbury" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2004 12:13:23 -0000 From: "Clements, Bruno - BUP" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] IBTABA That's an eye-opener for more recent listees... Certainly I would have expected Pink Flag to be in the top three, and certainly ahead of A Bell... Perhaps that's what comes of it being the first (!) Wire album I heard (bought not long before the release of Chairs Missing). Colin has described Ideal Copy as a 'mess', though that is a bit harsh. Quite nice to see First Letter at no. 7 as this is one that's come in for much criticism here but is one I'm quite fond of. 154 certainly has some great moments on it but I don't find I play it from start to finish these days, so it wouldn't rank as my fav album by my fav band... CM probably takes the honours but could tie with PF! - -----Original Message----- From: Keith Astbury [mailto:keith.indoorminer@virgin.net] Sent: 07 November 2004 02:08 To: Paul Pietromonaco; idealcopy@smoe.org Subject: Re: [idealcopy] IBTABA > IBTABA is one of my favorite Wire albums. But it's not the first I > heard - that would be Ideal Copy. Somewhere in the historical SMOE.org > archives, I once compiled a ranked list of Wire albums, but I have no > idea how to search for it! Wonder if my tastes now are the same as > then? Can't give you the exact date, Paul, but my email with the results was 7/5/2002 (phew! that went quick!!), so I guess it would be sometime in April. For the new folk here, we each voted for our top 10 Wire/Wire related LP's and the results were as follows... 1. 154 2. CHAIRS MISSING 3. A BELL IS A CUP. 4. IDEAL COPY 5. PINK FLAG 6. IT'S BEGINNING TO & BACK AGAIN 7. FIRST LETTER 8. A-Z 9. DOME 1 10.NOT TO So I guess a fair few of us liked IBTABA then. Keith ********************************************************************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses. www.mimesweeper.com ********************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2004 12:40:13 +0000 From: Andrew Walkingshaw Subject: Re: [idealcopy] IBTABA On Mon, Nov 08, 2004 at 12:13:23PM -0000, Clements, Bruno - BUP wrote: > 154 certainly has some great moments on it but I don't find I play it from > start to finish these days, so it wouldn't rank as my fav album by my fav > band... CM probably takes the honours but could tie with PF! I think I'd go for 154/CM/Send/PF/Ideal Copy/ABIAC as my top six, but splitting the top four is hard. 154 is just an album that immediately made sense to me. - - A - -- Earth Sciences, University of Cambridge http://www.esc.cam.ac.uk/ Programme Controller, CUR1350 http://www.cur1350.co.uk/ email: andrew@lexical.org.uk Random Walk ::: Wednesday, 10pm ::: cur1350.co.uk ::: is this music? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2004 05:59:45 -0800 (PST) From: Ari Subject: [idealcopy] IBTABA >>That's an eye-opener for more recent listees... Certainly I would have expected Pink Flag to be in the top three, and certainly ahead of A bell...<< not in my books,P.F isn't nearly as accessible >>Perhaps that's what comes of it being the first (!) Wire album I heard(bought not long before the release of Chairs Missing).<< I heard P.F within a few days of it being released,I 'like' it now,but I din't then >>Colin has described Ideal Copy as a 'mess', though that is a bit harsh.<< WAY too harsh,what's wrong with it Colin? >>Quite nice to see First Letter at no. 7 as this is one that's come in formuch criticism here but is one I'm quite fond of.<< Probably my third or forth fave Wire album >>154 certainly has some great moments on it but I don't find I play it from start to finish these days, so it wouldn't rank as my fav album by my fave band... CM probably takes the honours but could tie with PF!<< Interesting that the 'Peel Sessions' album rarely gets a mention.one of my fave's.Ari __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Check out the new Yahoo! Front Page. www.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2004 14:36:23 -0000 From: "Clements, Bruno - BUP" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] IBTABA >>>Interesting that the 'Peel Sessions' album rarely gets a mention.one of my fave's.Ari<<<< Well, I'd say it's more of a compilation - like Coatings. Individual tracks I'd pick out of both but I doubt I will ever (or have ever) play them from start to finish. The Peel sessions had a hand in making Wire my favourite band, though. Can't say I ever got into Crazy About Love - must play it tonight! ********************************************************************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses. www.mimesweeper.com ********************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2004 15:19:39 -0000 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Githead > Finally got around to hearing this and I have to say I like it a lot. > Been on heavy rotation this weekend. Favorite track is 'Craft is Dead' > with Malka doing some of the vocals. Great stuff. > > Eric Yeah, one of my faves, too though I'd probably go for To Have & To Hold myself. np Githead ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2004 15:21:15 -0000 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] RE: The Road ahead is quiteuncertain...Interpol > oh yeah, and i like !!! a lot. sorta the happy mondays of the new new york > scene? and they don't insist on being called anything specific, just three > repeated words/sounds. so really, they could be called yeah yeah yeah! how > confusing would that be? I thought Duran Duran Duran would be good till I read it had to be words with a single syllable! Not heard the album, but the Hello... single is really good. K. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2004 07:49:22 -0800 (PST) From: Derek White Subject: Re: [idealcopy] RE: The Road ahead is quiteuncertain...Interpol A Freudian slip, Ian ? ;-) As for the 'squiggle' band, I don't remember *them* at all? Who / what were *they*?? They didn't perchance release one of *the* first picture disks *ever*, did they, by the name of 'Saturnalia' ? ** ** [ It even pre-dated Curved Air's "Air conditioning" I think, which was another early picture-disk release ] Oh, and I thought the 'Peel tribute' was a touch thin, too. There's another one airing on Channel Four this week sometime though. That *may* be better.......... . Although, IIRC, it was Ch 4 that did JP's "Sounds of the Suburbs", so they may just re-hash one of those. Lazy stuff, really, if *that's* all it is. Half an hour of Talking Heads? Didn't see *that*, though....... Ian B wrote: I redmember in the early 80s there was a band over here (UK) who decided to have a weird squiggle for a name. I can't remember if they ascribed any phonetic representation to it, but they were killed by the music press (or Sounds,at least) deciding to refer to them as Elephant With A Stick of Rhubarb. Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2004 08:15:06 -0800 (PST) From: Derek White Subject: Re: [idealcopy] RE: The Road ahead is quiteuncertain...Interpol Please ignore the bollox underneath. For some unknown reason, I read "early 80's" , but before the info was assimilated, somehow my brain had mangled it to read "early '70's". I don't know why. Perhaps this is the onset of brain damage dating back to my 'yoof' I was always warned about.......;-) Derek White wrote: As for the 'squiggle' band, They didn't perchance release one of *the* first picture disks *ever*, did they, by the name of 'Saturnalia' ? ** ** [ It even pre-dated Curved Air's "Air conditioning" I think, which was another early picture-disk release ] Check out the new Yahoo! Front Page. www.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2004 11:31:05 EST From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] RE: The Road ahead is quiteuncertain...Interpol >>Oh, and I thought the 'Peel tribute' was a touch thin, too. There's another one airing on Channel Four this week sometime though. That *may* be better.......... . Although, IIRC, it was Ch 4 that did JP's "Sounds of the Suburbs", so they may just re-hash one of those. Lazy stuff, really, if *that's* all it is.<< Unless you have digital TV of some sort you would have missed the very fine tribute on BBC4, which had a selection of excellent and rarely-seen clips from the BBC TV archives (Syd Barret-era Pink Floyd; Banshees & Joy Division on Something Else; Capt. Beefheart on the OGWT, The Fall on The Late Show etc etc) interspersed with sound clips of Peel. Top 90 minutes of stuff - didn't miss a beat. C4 is just showing one of the Sounds of the Suburbs. Hopefully BBC4 might be persuaded to do a 'Peel night' - stuff like the Arena show from the 80s would be great to see again. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2004 17:05:46 -0000 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: [idealcopy] Future heads? I've just seen ad for kids tv show Blues Too's - with the guy dancing to the Futureheads! Bizarre!! Keith ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 08 Nov 2004 10:28:48 -0800 From: Paul Pietromonaco Subject: [idealcopy] [OT] Two new (mainstream) CDs Hi everyone, This is *totally* not Wire related, although some of the material may be of interest to IdealCopy members. Feel free to delete now, if not interested. Also - there is no political content in here either - feel free to delete if that disappoints you! (^_^) Okay - I'm playing the "Demo" disc of the Frank Black Francis CD, and I think it's amazing. This is the full tape of the "sing for your supper" series that Gary Smith used to do for the early artists at Fort Apache studios. Two tracks of this were released on the 10" vinyl Death To The Pixies collection, but most of this hasn't been heard. Basically, it's Black Franics running thru all of the songs that would be recorded as the Purple Tape/Come On Pilgrim/Pixies (spin-art) project. Damn - what a strong batch of tunes. No wonder the Pixies first stuff was so good - the source is strong. Also in heavy rotation in my CD player has been the new release from A Perfect Circle "eMOTIVe". This is a very strange major label release. And, it's strange for me to be liking it this much. Basically, this is an album of cover songs - but the weird part is that the band has re-interpreted (i.e. totally screwed with) the arrangements and melodies. All of the songs are about war/greed/injustice. Guess there is some political content in this e-mail after all. (^_^). Actually, this is close in approach to some of the things Wire has done - so I guess there's some Wire content in here as well. Don't get me wrong - the A Perfect Circle release sounds *nothing* like Wire. (^_^). But I can see some parallels in the approach to the material - namely Wire's ability to take a given song, deconstruct it and rebuild it in a new, unexpected way. Later today I will be listening to the second disc in the Frank Black Francis album - it's supposed to be modern re-works of the demo songs - and the new Camper Van Beethoven CD. CVB just played a local record store in Seattle - which I missed!!!! Rawr!!! That ought to keep me busy. (^_^) Cheers, Paul ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2004 18:50:14 -0000 From: "Clements, Bruno - BUP" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] [OT] Two new (mainstream) CDs Frank Black should not be underrated - I'm a latecomer to the Pixies and some of the solo stuff I've been introduced to by Bart, of this list, is very good. However, I prefer the material of a couple of albums later rather than the Purple Tapes/Pilgrim stuff. It's good, just not my favourite Pixies/FB material. Bruno - -----Original Message----- From: Paul Pietromonaco Hi everyone... I'm playing the "Demo" disc of the Frank Black Francis CD, and I think it's amazing. ********************************************************************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses. www.mimesweeper.com ********************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 08 Nov 2004 11:34:02 -0800 From: Paul Pietromonaco Subject: Re: [idealcopy] [OT] Two new (mainstream) CDs Clements, Bruno - BUP wrote: > Frank Black should not be underrated - I'm a latecomer to the Pixies and > some of the solo stuff I've been introduced to by Bart, of this list, is > very good. > > However, I prefer the material of a couple of albums later rather than the > Purple Tapes/Pilgrim stuff. It's good, just not my favourite Pixies/FB > material. > Hi Bruno, The funny thing is - some of the later material was recorded for the Purple tape, but left off of Come On Pilgrim. Even Subbacultcha from Trompe Le Monde shows up in the Purple Tape *and* in these demos! (^_^) I think Frank knew what he was doing all along! (^_^) The full tracklisting of the Purple tape is quite interesting: Leviate Me The Holiday Song I've Been Tired Break My Body Down To The Well Rock-a-my Soul I'm Amazed Build High In Heaven Caribou Here Comes Your Man Subbacultcha Vamos Broken Face Nimrod's Son Isla de Encanta Ed Is Dead Also - at least one of the songs re-recorded for the later albums was split apart. Subbacultcha originally included part of Distance Equals Rate Times Time. Just for completeness sake, Frank Black Francis includes these demos on disc one: The Holiday Song I'm Amazed Rock a My Soul Isla de Encanta Caribou Broken Face Build High Nimrod's Son Ed Is Dead Subbacultcha Boom Chickaboom I've Been Tired Break My Body Oh My Golly Vamos Cheers, Paul ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2004 12:58:38 -0800 (PST) From: Ari Subject: [idealcopy] Re: also sending........... Robert sed:>> > cool! thanks...i have never heard any Wilco RL NEVER HEARD ANY WILCO!!!!!!!!!!!!YOU SHOULD BE SHOT!!!I just joined the Wilco list,over 6000 members!!!!!shall send you Yankee Hotel Foxtrot,their best imho, to date.A(listen to the last track of the c.d I sent you and how they 'build' a track.)Asterix! Ari > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Check out the new Yahoo! Front Page. www.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2004 16:06:29 EST From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Future heads? keith , factual accuracy please. its called "blues clues". one of my daughters favourites. not one of mine....p ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2004 21:58:59 -0000 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Future heads? > keith , factual accuracy please. its called "blues clues". one of my > daughters favourites. not one of mine....p Yes. Got carried away in my excitement! As you know the programme, you will understand how bizarre it was to see the stripy topped presenter dancing to the Futureheads (Carnival Kids I think it was). Keith ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2004 22:07:42 -0000 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: [idealcopy] BBC NEWS Entertainment Music 'Remarkable' recovery for Almond Update on Marc Almond... http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/music/3991915.stm [demime 0.97c-p1 removed an attachment of type application/octet-stream which had a name of BBC NEWS Entertainment Music 'Remarkable' recovery for Almond.url] ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2004 17:43:48 EST From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Future heads? In a message dated 08/11/2004 22:13:03 GMT Standard Time, keith.indoorminer@virgin.net writes: Yes. Got carried away in my excitement! As you know the programme, you will understand how bizarre it was to see the stripy topped presenter dancing to the Futureheads (Carnival Kids I think it was). Keith //////i always think of that guy as the (very) poor man's craig charles. maybe he's attempting to branch out into the hip and trendy world of postpunk pastiche? nice career move , but sadly i fear he's missed the bus........p ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2004 15:05:09 -0800 From: "Paul Pietromonaco" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] [OT] Two new (mainstream) CDs > I think Frank knew what he was doing all along! (^_^) > Until I listened to the "treated" disc two in the Frank Black Francis set. Oh my... ...goodness... ...this is awful. Imagine Frank Black slowly singing Pixies songs accompanied by jazzy guitar and trumpet in a lounge somewhere in the heart of suburbia, and that begins to capture the horror. Now, add production courtesy of Marvin The Paranoid Android, and you have the second disc. Hmm - hard to recommend this CD now. The first disc is excellent, but the second disc...well, let's just say it's not for me. However - if it sounds appealing to you, let me know. We might be able to work out a trade. Oh gosh - they've orchestrated Nimrod's Son with tuba. No - I'm not kidding. Will the madness ever cease? Cheers, Paul ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2004 23:29:47 -0000 From: "Keith Knight" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] Future heads? Assuming we're talking about the black scouse guy, in my days of watching Blue's Clues I thought he was an immensely talented performer given that he had to perform with a bunch of animated pre-school characters. I found his sincerity and timing really impressive. God, a three way conversation about Blue's Clues. Sometimes I love this list. But apologies for all those who haven't got a Blue's Clue what we're on about. Another the Keith (really pleased that Marc Almond is getting better - about time we had some good news. I am, BTW, actively thinking of going to Peel's memorial service on Friday in Bury St Edmonds cathedral, which is a slightly weird thing to do but I feel compelled especially as I can make it and it's only about 90 minutes drive from here) - -----Original Message----- From: owner-idealcopy@smoe.org [mailto:owner-idealcopy@smoe.org] On Behalf Of PaulRabjohn@aol.com Yes. Got carried away in my excitement! As you know the programme, you will understand how bizarre it was to see the stripy topped presenter dancing to the Futureheads (Carnival Kids I think it was). Keith //////i always think of that guy as the (very) poor man's craig charles. maybe he's attempting to branch out into the hip and trendy world of postpunk pastiche? nice career move , but sadly i fear he's missed the bus........p ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2004 16:44:24 -0800 From: Rex Broome Subject: Re: [idealcopy] IBTABA > For the new folk here, we each voted for our top 10 Wire/Wire related LP's > and the results were as follows... > > 1. 154 > > 2. CHAIRS MISSING > > 3. A BELL IS A CUP. > > 4. IDEAL COPY > > 5. PINK FLAG > > 6. IT'S BEGINNING TO & BACK AGAIN > > 7. FIRST LETTER > > 8. A-Z > > 9. DOME 1 > > 10.NOT TO > > So I guess a fair few of us liked IBTABA then. And I guess the only other universal conclusion would be that Manscape is subpar in a borderline-empirical way. Which oddly makes me want to listen to it... - -Rex - -- "Maybe baby election twelve who I really am!" - -Miranda Mellbye Broome ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2004 17:56:30 -0800 (PST) From: Ari Subject: [idealcopy] Wilco Tonite: Wilco are on the Jay Leno show tonite.Ari __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Check out the new Yahoo! Front Page. www.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2004 17:59:27 -0800 (PST) From: Ari Subject: Re: [idealcopy] IBTABA > >And I guess the only other universal conclusion would be that Manscapeis subpar in a borderline-empirical way. Which oddly makes me want to listen to it... -Rex<< I love this album,I suspect if people listened to it a bit more they'd get to love it too.Ari __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Check out the new Yahoo! Front Page. www.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2004 09:13:07 -0000 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] IBTABA > > For the new folk here, we each voted for our top 10 Wire/Wire related LP's > > and the results were as follows... > > > > 1. 154 > And I guess the only other universal conclusion would be that Manscape > is subpar in a borderline-empirical way. Which oddly makes me want to > listen to it... > > -Rex Manscape limped in at equal 16. Here's the rest (and chart breakdown!) for those who are interested... 11.DOCUMENT & EYEWITNESS 12.DOME 2 13.DRILL 14.IT'S ALL IN THE BROCHURE 15.COATINGS 16.= MANSCAPE 16.=SNAKEDRILL 18.=THIS WAY TO THE SHIVERING MAN 18.=BEHIND THE CURTAIN 20.COMMERCIAL SUICIDE As for the stats.. Although '154' won quite comfortably (31 pts separated first and second place), 'Chairs Missing' featured in more peoples top tens than any other album. In fact, it was looking like it was going to manage a clean sweep until - - late in the day - one subscriber inexplicably left it out. (For the benefit of all 'Chairs Missing' fans I will name the guilty party who spoilt that 100% record.Craig at Wireviews come on down!) Only one point separated 'Dome 1' and 'Not To'. I mention this because 'Dome 1' beat 'Not To' due to the official adjudicators (i.e. me!) decision to count Ian B's unofficial 9th and 10th choices rather than just his top eight plus two. The difference between 'A Bell is a Cup' and 'Ideal Copy' was pretty tight too. An unbelievable 46 albums received a vote in all. That's a lot of music. Keith ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V7 #325 *******************************