From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V7 #306 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Saturday, October 23 2004 Volume 07 : Number 306 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [idealcopy] OT: Possibly the best Ebay auction ever ["Adrian Cooke" ] Re: [idealcopy] OT: Possibly the best Ebay auction ever [Bart van Damme <] [idealcopy] O.T: nytimes: Record Labels Said to Be Next on Spitzer List for Scrutiny [Ari ] Re: [idealcopy] itunes (iwonder..) [Rex Broome ] RE: [idealcopy] itunes (iwonder..) ["P J Kane" ] Re: [idealcopy] itunes (iwonder..) [Rex Broome ] Re: [idealcopy] itunes (iwonder..) ["P J Kane" ] Re: [idealcopy] itunes (iwonder..) [Ari ] Re: [idealcopy] itunes (iwonder..) [Rex Broome ] Re: [idealcopy] itunes (iwonder..) [MarkBursa@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] itunes (iwonder..) [Eardrumbuz@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] itunes (iwonder..) [Rex Broome ] Re: [idealcopy] itunes (iwonder..) ["P J Kane" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 10:13:21 +0100 From: "Adrian Cooke" Subject: [idealcopy] OT: Possibly the best Ebay auction ever Have you all seen or heard about this? http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5527273221 Adrian Adrian Cooke Business Manager Community Music East Ltd 189 King Street Norwich NR1 2DF Tel: 01603 628 367 Fax: 01603 767 863 Mobile: 07909 920574 www.cme.org.uk ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 02:34:40 -0700 (PDT) From: Fergus Kelly Subject: [idealcopy] itunes (iwonder..) Anyone know of a way of configuring itunes to record stuff for CD & ipod in such a way that there's no gaps between continuous tracks (even when the gap between tracks is selected as 0 seconds on itunes preferences). CDs with continuous tracks transferred into itunes segue into each other, but with a millisecond gap, which just ruins the flow... seems like a very strange flaw what with the constantly hurtling juggernaut of technological progress etc., etc. Fergus _______________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today! http://vote.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 11:50:57 +0200 From: Bart van Damme Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT: Possibly the best Ebay auction ever > Have you all seen or heard about this? > > http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5527273221 Hahaha... excellent! Bart ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 03:56:49 -0700 (PDT) From: Ari Subject: [idealcopy] O.T: nytimes: Record Labels Said to Be Next on Spitzer List for Scrutiny > Record Labels Said to Be Next on Spitzer List for > Scrutiny > By JEFF LEEDS > > Eliot Spitzer, the New York State attorney general, > has recently taken on a procession of corporate > powers from Wall Street analysts to mutual funds to > insurance brokers. Now he is casting his eyes on the > music industry, particularly its practices for > influencing what songs are heard on the public > airwaves. > > According to several people involved, investigators > in Mr. Spitzer's office have served subpoenas on the > four major record corporations - the Universal Music > Group, Sony BMG Music Entertainment, the EMI Group > and the Warner Music Group - seeking copies of > contracts, billing records and other information > detailing their ties to independent middlemen who > pitch new songs to radio programmers in New York > State. > > The inquiry encompasses all the major radio formats > and is not aiming at any individual record promoter, > these people said. Mr. Spitzer and representatives > for the record companies declined to comment. > > The major record labels have paid middlemen for > decades, though the practice has long been derided > as a way to skirt a federal statute - known as the > payola law - outlawing bribes to radio broadcasters. > > > Broadcasters are prohibited from taking cash or > anything of value in exchange for playing a specific > song, unless they disclose the transaction to > listeners. But in a practice that is common in the > industry, independent promoters pay radio stations > annual fees - often exceeding $100,000 - not, they > say, to play specific songs, but to obtain advance > copies of the stations' playlists. The promoters > then bill record labels for each new song that is > played; the total tab costs the record industry tens > of millions of dollars each year. > > The new scrutiny comes at an inconvenient time for > the major record companies, which have been pressing > federal and state law enforcement officials to shut > pirate CD manufacturers and the unimpeded flow of > copyrighted music online. > > The statute involved is a federal one and the case > would not seem to fit neatly into Mr. Spitzer's > jurisdiction, but state attorneys general typically > have wide latitude to investigate issues involving > consumers and businesses in their states. > > In this instance, Mr. Spitzer might proceed on the > ground that broadcasters' dealings with middlemen > severely limit the opportunities available to those > artists who cannot afford to hire them. > > These promoters flourished throughout the 1980's and > most of the 1990's, but their influence began to > weaken after Congress deregulated the radio industry > in 1996, allowing for an extensive consolidation > that tilted the balance of power to a handful of > newly created broadcasting mammoths. > > With their newfound power, some big chains, > including Clear Channel Communications, at first > tried to tap a bigger share of the labels' > promotional dollars, and designated specific > independent promoters to be the exclusive > representatives for particular stations. > > Promotion prices continued to rise, but at the same > time the consultants had less influence over > airplay, record executives say. > > In 2002, the industry's lobbying organization, the > Recording Industry Association of America, called on > the government to strengthen anti-payola laws and > examine questionable practices, including > independent promotion. (Association officials are > considering whether to provide new comments and > information to the Federal Communications Commission > as part of that agency's review of radio promotion, > people in the music industry have said.) > > Cox Radio, and later Clear Channel, said they would > not renew their contracts with any promoters. > > Since the big companies severed their ties to the > practice, record labels - suffering from piracy and > other financial woes - have sharply scaled back > payments to the middlemen, and by some estimates pay > them as little as $30 million annually. > > One promoter, who spoke on condition of anonymity, > said Mr. Spitzer's investigators "are not going to > find anything; they're 20 years too late." > > But questionable practices persist in a variety of > markets and music formats. > > In the late 1990's, the Justice Department began a > broad investigation of payola that eventually > encompassed dozens of Latin and urban- music radio > stations across the nation. It won convictions > against two top executives at Fonovisa, the biggest > independent record label in the Spanish-language > market, and a top radio executive. No cases have > been brought in the urban-music category. Unlike the > promoters in the rock and pop fields who receive > payments as stations add a song to their playlist, > many urban-music consultants receive initial lump > sums to finance the marketing of a new single, and > distribute the money as they see fit. > > > _______________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today! http://vote.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 04:42:54 -0700 (PDT) From: Derek White Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT: Possibly the best Ebay auction ever Quite cheered me up on a cold, wet, miserable day! Cheers! Perhaps there's a film in there somewhere...............:-) Bart van Damme wrote: > Have you all seen or heard about this? > > http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5527273221 Hahaha... excellent! Bart Y! Messenger - Communicate in real time. Download now. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 04:46:33 -0700 (PDT) From: Derek White Subject: Re: [idealcopy] O.T: nytimes: Record Labels Said to Be Next on Spitzer List for Scrutiny >>> Good for him ! Go get 'em, son.........:-) If he can't altogether stop the practice, perhaps he could get them to pay for *better* tunes to get played...... Ari wrote: > Record Labels Said to Be Next on Spitzer List for > Scrutiny > By JEFF LEEDS > > Eliot Spitzer, the New York State attorney general, > has recently taken on a procession of corporate > powers from Wall Street analysts to mutual funds to > insurance brokers. Now he is casting his eyes on the > music industry, particularly its practices for > influencing what songs are heard on the public > airwaves. Yahoo! Mail  CNET Editors' Choice 2004. Tell them what you think. a ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 10:50:33 -0400 From: "Creaig Dunton" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] itunes (iwonder..) I don't think there's a way to do that with either an iPod or iTunes, unfortunately. After getting my iPod last year I scowered the various forums and message boards, but that was a complaint that had no solution. It's a minor problem, but one I'm reminded of every time I hear a gap between "Paperhouse" and "Mushroom" on Can's Tago Mago. Some of the other CD burning software can burn discs without gaps though, I know Ahead's Nero does it just fine, and it's not too hard to work out. Let me know if you're interested in using that one... - -- Creaig http://www.2fmp.com > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-idealcopy@smoe.org [mailto:owner-idealcopy@smoe.org]On > Behalf Of Fergus Kelly > Sent: Friday, October 22, 2004 5:35 AM > To: idealcopy@smoe.org > Subject: [idealcopy] itunes (iwonder..) > > > Anyone know of a way of configuring itunes to record > stuff for CD & ipod in such a way that there's no gaps > between continuous tracks (even when the gap between > tracks is selected as 0 seconds on itunes > preferences). CDs with continuous tracks transferred > into itunes segue into each other, but with a > millisecond gap, which just ruins the flow... seems > like a very strange flaw what with the constantly > hurtling juggernaut of technological progress etc., > etc. > > Fergus > > > > _______________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today! > http://vote.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 09:57:40 -0700 From: Rex Broome Subject: Re: [idealcopy] itunes (iwonder..) Creaig > Some of the other CD burning software can burn discs without gaps though, I > know Ahead's Nero does it just fine, and it's not too hard to work out. Let > me know if you're interested in using that one... The discs I used to burn through Toast had the same problem. My main question was whether the problem lay in the gap *between* tracks, or if the ripping/burning process actually left microscopic blank gaps at the end or start of (but within) each track. Shit, did that make any sense? Makes live records sound awful, that's for sure. - -Rex - -- "Maybe baby election twelve who I really am!" - -Miranda Mellbye Broome ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 16:58:33 GMT From: "P J Kane" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] itunes (iwonder..) << I don't think there's a way to do that with either an iPod or iTunes, unfortunately. After getting my iPod last year I scowered the various forums and message boards, but that was a complaint that had no solution. It's a minor problem, but one I'm reminded of every time I hear a gap between "Paperhouse" and "Mushroom" on Can's Tago Mago. >> actually, it might be a perceptual issue. that is to say, the people who these products are designed for -- the kids growing up with MP3 these days, the ones who have never bought an actual album, and most of their CDs are burned -- these people do not think in terms of "album". so, there are gaps between each song in a palylist while the software loads the next file. this is logical. for the true user of an ipod it's not an issue. if there shouldn't be a gap, then the thing should be encoded as 1 MP3, perhaps with movements denoted in it.... so: Tago Mago should, really, just be 2 huge wonking MP3 files.... i know this is hard for those of us who remember (and still purchase!) vinyl.... but this is an entirely new idiom. PJK please don't hate me because i can't type..... - --- All the cool kids are doing it: HTTP://www.EvilSponge.org ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 10:32:45 -0700 From: Rex Broome Subject: Re: [idealcopy] itunes (iwonder..) > so, there are gaps between each song in a palylist while the software loads the next file. this is logical. for the true user of an ipod it's not an issue. if there shouldn't be a gap, then the thing should be encoded as 1 MP3, perhaps with movements denoted in it.... so: Tago Mago should, really, just be 2 huge wonking MP3 files.... > > i know this is hard for those of us who remember (and still purchase!) vinyl.... but this is an entirely new idiom. Nonetheless, even on vinyl, Tago Mago (or what have you) had a more useful indexing system than Side 1/Side 2: visual grooves so you could more or less drop the needle on the track you want. The "file with denoted movements" is a step backwards from the LP, more akin to a cassette with a really really fast but imprecise shuttle feature. I know it's inevitable, but I don't think the album idiom is close enough to death that modern "kids" don't get it at all. Their parents and older siblings certainly get it; the charts are still keyed to album releases; most mp3's and similar formats reference the theoretical parent album from which it came... etc... and the vast majority of the history of recorded sound is organized based on the principle of the "album", so if these kids ever get interested in anything at all from before the whole mp3 thing, they're going to stumble across the old idiom at least conceptually. - -Rex Broome (guitar and vocal, Kids These Days) - -- "Maybe baby election twelve who I really am!" - -Miranda Mellbye Broome ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 18:12:16 GMT From: "P J Kane" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] itunes (iwonder..) << Nonetheless, even on vinyl, Tago Mago (or what have you) had a more useful indexing system than Side 1/Side 2: visual grooves so you could more or less drop the needle on the track you want. The "file with denoted movements" is a step backwards from the LP, more akin to a cassette with a really really fast but imprecise shuttle feature. >> so what you are saying is -- you want everything all at once: convenience, portability, random access to tracks, no spaces between tracks.... << I know it's inevitable, but I don't think the album idiom is close enough to death that modern "kids" don't get it at all. >> the kids i go to school with _only_ do MP3s (yes, i am back in college....). they look upon me as a wierdo that i have stacks and stacks of albums. this is more widespread than you might think.... << Their parents and older siblings certainly get it; >> yes, but kids, by definition, do not listen to these people. << the charts are still keyed to album releases; >> who the f*ck even pays attention to those things? << most mp3's and similar formats reference the theoretical parent album from which it came... etc... >> theoretically. often i find that those fields are not used. and besides, the people i know only keep the songs they like, not bothering to keep all the songs on an album just because the artist thinks they go together.... << and the vast majority of the history of recorded sound is organized based on the principle of the "album", >> no. "albums" didn't really exist until the Beatles. before then it was singles. which is, really, just like MP3s.... the idiom is changing. and the people who designed the IPod and for whom it is designed don't care about the "gaps" that you people are worrying about. it's just ... different. PJK please don't hate me because i can't type..... - --- All the cool kids are doing it: HTTP://www.EvilSponge.org ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 11:35:16 -0700 (PDT) From: Ari Subject: Re: [idealcopy] itunes (iwonder..) > The discs I used to burn through Toast had the same > problem. My main > question was whether the problem lay in the gap > *between* tracks, or > if the ripping/burning process actually left > microscopic blank gaps at > the end or start of (but within) each track. Shit, > did that make any > sense? Makes live records sound awful, that's for > sure. > > -Rex Nero doesn't do that...............Ari > > -- > "Maybe baby election twelve who I really am!" > -Miranda Mellbye Broome Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 11:37:00 -0700 From: Rex Broome Subject: Re: [idealcopy] itunes (iwonder..) > so what you are saying is -- you want everything all at once: convenience, portability, random access to tracks, no spaces between tracks.... Wlllllllll.... yeah! And my iPod does all that stuff except the last one. People my age and older have iPods...so... why not? > the kids i go to school with _only_ do MP3s (yes, i am back in college....). they look upon me as a wierdo that i have stacks and stacks of albums. this is more widespread than you might think.... Conceded... > << Their parents and older siblings certainly get it; >> > > yes, but kids, by definition, do not listen to these people. Now, at their current age. But won't they eventually? Doesn't the average person eventually develop some interest in the music, films, literature etc. that came before, for one reason or another? I mean, maybe even that idiom is changing; I don't know. My high-tech nephews, one college age and one younger, have plenty of Beatles and Zepplin in their iTunes libraries. They may be exceptions, but I doubt they're unique. > << the charts are still keyed to album releases; >> > > who the f*ck even pays attention to those things? Okay, "charts" was a stupid example. But the buzz about, say, the new Emiinem tracks is keyed to his impending new *album*, whether or not the young'uns purchase or absorb it in that fashion. > << and the vast majority of the history of recorded sound is organized based on the principle of the "album", >> > > no. "albums" didn't really exist until the Beatles. before then it was singles. which is, really, just like MP3s.... Erm, not exactly. The term "album" came about to describe literally that: records (78's) sould in the form of a bound book which could hold multiple discs, so that the limited running time of each record could be dealt with by stacking multiple platters on your spindle and you could buy, say, an entire opera or symphony in that form, more or less continuously. Sure, the Beatles and others were responsible for bringing the idea that an album should be a cogent work of its own into the pop/rock realm. But even before that, pop singers did albums that were something other than random collections of songs. If a pop vocalist did a record called "...Sings the Songs of Love", it wouldn't have the same content as their record of Gunfighter Ballads, or their Christmas album, or whatnot. > the idiom is changing. and the people who designed the IPod and for whom it is designed don't care about the "gaps" that you people are worrying about. it's just ... different. Yeah, but it still makes my live albums sound stupid, and it could be fixed very easily. If they're not going to prevent people over 21 from buying these products, and they can be used as storage and playback for old albums, why not make 'em so the old albums sound right? Nah, it's not a big deal, and I agree that the poles are shifting, whether I like it or not; I just seem to not believe it's as seismic, instantaneous, and permanent as you do. What about younger artists, then? Are bands (who are inevitably influenced by their forebearers from the previous idiom) now talking as their primary goal to get some mp3's out there? Maybe... - -Rex - -- "Maybe baby election twelve who I really am!" - -Miranda Mellbye Broome ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 15:24:42 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] itunes (iwonder..) Clearly this shift away from 'purchased artefact' to downloadable song is upon us - in this week's NME, the singles page has mutated into something called 'tracks', which attempts to highlight what's available, by whatever format (free download, paid download, single release etc). The iPod is clearly here to stay - despite its limitations. With MP3 we are stuck with a flawed format, but one that is workable (when has that ever been a problem? I give you VHS and CD as 'flawed' concepts that stuck because they were workable). And to kids who download individual tracks to their iPods, the concept of services such as Napster or iTunes is less unfathomable than it is to people like us, who think in terms of 'album' on permanent media (so iTunes = 99p per song x 12 songs + cost of CD blank, case and printed cover - more than the new cost of the bought CD for something that you had to make yourself). At the risk of sounding like a grumpy old git, ver yoof is increasingly treating music like it treats, say, clothes. Wear the latest fashionable item all the time, then chuck it away when something else comes along. Downloaded songs will stay on the iPod till the memory gets full - then they'll be deleted as they fall out of favour. 'Rock' music will become organised like dance music - where the 'now' is all that matters. Nothing is more dated than a 3-year old dance record. For all the extra choice that digital formats should allow, what you'll end up with is a smaller list of music in circulation, with occasional revivals of 'lost' works as artists rediscover them. The spanner in the works is the increasing population of older people who are still consuming 'new' music (eg the Idealcopy Massive; the readers of Mojo etc). I do not want the downloadable business model forced upon me (though I like the ability to download rarities, and I like the concept of free downloads as a way of auditioning new stuff). I *like* owning the artefact. I don't generally listen to music on a portable device through headphones. And I like albums rather than just single songs (though not exclusively so). And, crucially, I have more money to spend on music than your average teenager. Whether the industry recognises this, or simply assumes that the 'older' buyer wants a diet of reissues and Dido albums is another matter. The music industry is not particularly sophisticated in terms of marketing or understanding its evolving demographics. That's partially why it feels so threatened, and feels compelled to sue children for downloading nursery rhymes. A second spanner in the works is the artist - most musicians are still geared around the concept of the album, indeed without album sales the whole business becomes unbalanced for labels and artists. Anyway, the next generation will have a 1,000,000Gig hard drive implanted into their brains and will be able to download songs directly into their heads via their mobile phones. They won't want any of those old tech iPop gadgets, daddio. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 16:27:34 EDT From: Eardrumbuz@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] itunes (iwonder..) In a message dated 10/22/04 3:36:58 PM, MarkBursa@aol.com writes: << I like the ability to download rarities, and I like the concept of free downloads as a way of auditioning new stuff). I *like* owning the artefact. I don't generally listen to music on a portable device through headphones. And I like albums rather than just single songs (though not exclusively so).>> we have so much in common. i still would like to have my ipod, but the next bit is where we must differ :o) <> but as for this issue concerning the gaps between tracks...i was puzzled at first, because i know i had somewhat overcome the problem once before. there is a segue feature in itunes where you can manually set the amount of overlap from one track to the next. not exactly the same as removing the gap, but possibly less annoying, especially when it's mostly audience noise on a live album. HOWEVER...bad news is the feature seems to be missing from the current version of itunes (4.6) and i can't remember which previous version it was where i used this feature. - -paul c.d. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 12:46:16 -0700 From: Rex Broome Subject: Re: [idealcopy] itunes (iwonder..) > At the risk of sounding like a grumpy old git, ver yoof is increasingly > treating music like it treats, say, clothes. Wear the latest fashionable > item all the time, then chuck it away when something else comes along. > Downloaded songs will stay on the iPod till the memory gets full - then > they'll be deleted as they fall out of favour. [...] > I do not want the downloadable business model forced upon me > (though I like the ability to download rarities, and I like the concept of > free downloads as a way of auditioning new stuff). I think that's true... most well-funded download venues prop themselves up as ways to find "newest, hottest" music online. Whatever... new and hot music is still on sale at Virgin. What I want to download is in some ways the oldest, coldest music imaginable... stuff that has little enough commercial value that nobody's pressed it onto CD, so it's up to some nutjob like myself to digitize it off of vinyl or whatever. I like the idea that stuff might be available which has been out of print for decades; that the body of downloadable music might consist of, oh, let's say, everything, ever. Which it kind of does, but the pipes are mightily clogged with what the labels are pushing as "hot", which leaves us with a model not too disimilar from what we've always had in the form of "radio". In fact as often as not the internet offers obscure and out-of-print music up more readily, affordable, and easily-found in the form of mail-order-able used "artifacts" than downloads. That's my experience anyway, but I too am an outmoded geezer at 33. Hell, I even make physical discs out of the stuff I *do* download, just so I can browse it in the same fashion as the other 2500 artifacts on my racks. And I rename tracks in iTunes to more accurately reflect what album they were on originally (as in, no more Ramones "All the Stuff"... in my iTunes those two comps are now 4 proper albums and some change). But I better start swimming or I'll sink like a stone... - -Rex - -- "Maybe baby election twelve who I really am!" - -Miranda Mellbye Broome ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 00:01:52 GMT From: "P J Kane" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] itunes (iwonder..) << Wlllllllll.... yeah! And my iPod does all that stuff except the last one. People my age and older have iPods...so... why not? >> i really think, offhand, that this is a software issue. have you considered writing to the manufacturer and asking for this as a feature in the next version? what appears to be happening (and this is what my MP3 program on my desktop does -- i don't have an IPod....) is that the software waits and loads the next song into it's active memory only after the previous one is finished. with WinAmp, there is a slightly longer gap if you are loading a really huge MP3 file next (say, the entire 45 minute track off of the latest Acid Mothers Temple disc. or an hour long DJ set.) there should be an easy way for the programmers to make it so that the software starts loading the next track into it's memory near the end of the current track.... at least in theory. anyway, this apparently bothers you, so ask the manufacturer. it doesn't bother me one bit.... << Now, at their current age. But won't they eventually? Doesn't the average person eventually develop some interest in the music, films, literature etc. that came before, for one reason or another? I mean, maybe even that idiom is changing; I don't know. My high-tech nephews, one college age and one younger, have plenty of Beatles and Zepplin in their iTunes libraries. They may be exceptions, but I doubt they're unique. >> right. but those younger folks might very well be like your nephews, and instead of downloading "Sgt Pepper's" they will just get a few of the tracks off of it to keep on their IPod. << Okay, "charts" was a stupid example. But the buzz about, say, the new Emiinem tracks is keyed to his impending new *album*, whether or not the young'uns purchase or absorb it in that fashion. >> i think that this is because we are still in a transitional state. i am not saying that albums will go away forever. but change is afoot... << If a pop vocalist did a record called "...Sings the Songs of Love", it wouldn't have the same content as their record of Gunfighter Ballads, or their Christmas album, or whatnot. >> i'll grant you that. but at the same time, 7"s were really popular back then. beleive me -- i have inherited almost 1000 old 7"s that various relatives collected in the 50s and 60s. (none of them have record players anymore, so they give them to me! coolness...) my experience talking to these people is that they bought singles, and very rarely albums. that could just be the motown my family was into though.... << Yeah, but it still makes my live albums sound stupid, and it could be fixed very easily. >> indeed. so write to the manufacturer. << If they're not going to prevent people over 21 from buying these products, and they can be used as storage and playback for old albums, why not make 'em so the old albums sound right? >> the second or so gap does not bother me in the least. i don't even notice it. << Nah, it's not a big deal, and I agree that the poles are shifting, whether I like it or not; I just seem to not believe it's as seismic, instantaneous, and permanent as you do. >> fair enough. and i am not too sure that things will change for good either.... << What about younger artists, then? Are bands (who are inevitably influenced by their forebearers from the previous idiom) now talking as their primary goal to get some mp3's out there? Maybe... >> some, i think. in fact, here is one: http://www.no-flyzone.com this is a Sicilian band who forwarded a link to their latest song (on their website) and asked myy 'zine if we would review it. just one song, available for download. granted, this is the first time we have been asked that, but i doubt it will be the last. PJK please don't hate me because i can't type..... - --- All the cool kids are doing it: HTTP://www.EvilSponge.org ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V7 #306 *******************************