From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V7 #244 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Thursday, August 19 2004 Volume 07 : Number 244 Today's Subjects: ----------------- RE: [idealcopy] Stranglers (OT) ["Clements, Bruno - BUP" ] Re: [idealcopy] Colin votes for KaitO [Derek White ] Re: [idealcopy] Colin votes for KaitO [Derek White ] Re: [idealcopy] Colin votes for KaitO [Andrew Walkingshaw ] Re: [idealcopy] Colin votes for KaitO ["Keith Astbury" ] Re: [idealcopy] Colin votes for KaitO [dpbailey@att.net] [idealcopy] fall bbc box? ["dan bailey" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 10:58:46 +0100 From: "Clements, Bruno - BUP" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] Stranglers (OT) >>>Curiosity value really. They still sound like the real thing when doing songs that JJB sings (Tank, Death and night etc) but most of the time you just wish Hugh was still with them. The Stranglers are putting in an appearance in Sydney shortly. I was wondering whether any IC-ers can recommend (or not) this band's recent form. Are they worth seeing??? ********************************************************************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses. www.mimesweeper.com ********************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 15:53:28 +0200 From: "mileta okiljevic" Subject: [idealcopy] Gavin Friday News - August 18, 2004 (wire related) - ----- Original Message ----- From: "gfn" To: Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 11:15 AM Subject: { g f n } August 18, 2004 > The News: > > - Gavin Friday lands role in 'Breakfast on Pluto' > You may have picked up some rumours already and we can now confirm that Gavin will indeed play a role in Neil Jordan's new film 'Breakfast on Pluto'. > > The film is written by Neil Jordan and Pat McCabe after McCabe's 1999 novel. > > The Breakfast on Pluto cast consists of Cillian Murphy, Liam Neeson, Brendan Gleeson, Stephen Rea and Gavin Friday. > > > - Colin Newman remixes Baby Turns Blue > Twenty-two years after the '.If I Die, I Die' recording sessions, Gavin has asked the original producer of the album, Colin Newman, to remix the song 'Baby Turns Blue'. > > Colin Newman was a founder member of the legendary band 'Wire'. > > Newman worked on the project last month and has finished the mix. More information to follow. > > > - Gavin, Dave-id, Guggi in promo video > The three ex-vocalists of the Virgin Prunes introduce the band's re-issues with a video message at Virginprunes.com. > > > > - Gavin and Guggi spin records in London > Gavin and Guggi will be doing a DJ set at Nag Nag Nag in London on September 29th, celebrating the release of the Virgin Prunes re-issues. > > > > - Gavin and Guggi signing session at Sister Ray > Gavin Friday and Guggi will be signing copies of the re-issued Virgin Prunes CDs at London's indie record shop 'Sister Ray' on September 29th, before their Nag Nag Nag DJ set. > > Signing will start early afternoon around 1.30 for copies purchased in Sister Ray. > > Sister Ray > 94 Berwick Street > Soho > LONDON > W1F 0QF > > > - Previews of VP re-issues artwork and tracklisting > Over the next few weeks we will be previewing artwork and tracklisting of the Virgin Prunes CD re-issues at virginprunes.com in collaboration with Mute records. The albums can now be pre-ordered from Amazon.co.uk, and will also be available through Mute's own mail order service. Keep an eye on the website for more information about that. America, Canada, France, the Benelux, Italy and other territories have also confirmed release dates for the 5 CDs. > > > > > > > http://www.gavinfriday.com > > This newsletter was distributed by www.gavinfriday.com and was not sent unsolicited. > . ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 10:10:25 -0700 (PDT) From: Derek White Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Colin votes for KaitO MarkBursa@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 8/17/2004 5:00:00 PM GMT Daylight Time, zak_blakk@yahoo.com writes: >>An appearance on 'Later' in the 2003 series perhaps qualifies as THE worst TV appearance by a band, ever.<>Incidentally, Tim: this 'talent' you spotted in messrs Vicous , Ryder and Cobain:- Que?< Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Colin votes for KaitO Keith Astbury wrote: Anyone see the Ryder documentary on BBC2 recently. Excellent (as was the Gil Scott Heron, Viv Stanshall and Robert Wyatt shows). I felt really sorry for SR by the end. Aw, crap ! No I didn't, although I would've liked to: your post was the first I'd heard about it, although I've seen the others in the series that you mentioned, as well as a good one on Richard Thompson. Whatever Shaun Ryder's merits as a performer [debatable], he does at least seem a likeable, if not overly bright kind of guy, with a bad habit of shooting himself squarely in the foot, and getting utterly shitfaced at the most innoportune moments. His earnest claims to be drug-free during an interveiw on Chris Evans' TFI Friday, when it was obvious to the world and his wife from his demeanour, with the scratting, the pin-point pupils and as near as dammit, the nodding out, that he was completely trashed was a priceless bit of TV. New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 10:26:44 -0700 (PDT) From: Derek White Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Colin votes for KaitO Keith Astbury wrote: Still, it if was judged purely on the music, my number one is still undoubtedly Eric Burdon's cod-reggae version of Don't Let Me Be Misunderstood. ///// It *was* pretty furniture-chewingly dire wasn't it ? Maybe he should've done "We've got to get out of this plaice" instead ?? (sorry) derek New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 18:29:36 +0100 From: Andrew Walkingshaw Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Colin votes for KaitO On Wed, Aug 18, 2004 at 10:10:25AM -0700, Derek White wrote: [Kurt Cobain] > Maybe it's just me, but I can't entirely divorce his work from his > self-doubting /pitying/ loathing , gun-and-death fixated > personality. I think doing so is impossible; but (and I don't think this is Derek's main point, so this isn't an attack) self-doubt really is a very, very pernicious syndrome - everyone here must have had some attacks of it... I just regard the Nirvana story, like the Manics, as desperately sad. - - Andrew - -- Dept of Earth Sciences, Univ. Cambridge ::: http://www.esc.cam.ac.uk/ email: andrew@lexical.org.uk ::: http://www.lexical.org.uk/blog/ Random Walk, 10pm Wednesdays, CUR1350 ::: http://www.cur1350.co.uk/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 19:08:19 +0100 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: [idealcopy] Re: Shaun Ryder - was Colin votes for KaitO Anyone see the Ryder documentary on BBC2 recently. Excellent (as was the Gil Scott Heron, Viv Stanshall and Robert Wyatt shows). I felt really sorry for SR by the end. Aw, crap ! No I didn't, although I would've liked to: your post was the first I'd heard about it, although I've seen the others in the series that you mentioned, as well as a good one on Richard Thompson. Whatever Shaun Ryder's merits as a performer [debatable], he does at least seem a likeable, if not overly bright kind of guy, Yeah, he came across as very likeable - in the end. Early on in the programme I was just thinking 'what a dick', but his likeability came through. His career is in a right mess though - he's not allowed to earn ANYTHING from his music because of legal wrangles, and was having to be vague when answering where any income came from. But his career's not the only thing in a mess - he is. His brain's a bit on the addled side, and he seemed old before his time. But what can you say about a man who's supposed to be trying to give up drugs, but in his wisdom when moving to the countryside, moves next door to...wait for it...Bez!! Still, the scenes where Bez and Shaun were arguing about their history ("we supported Aha", "No we didn't", etc etc) were priceless. Keith ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 16:47:33 EDT From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Colin votes for KaitO In a message dated 18/08/2004 18:17:07 GMT Standard Time, zak_blakk@yahoo.com writes: > Wasn't it that little 'demonstration' of the Vines' singer that elicited > the remark from Lou Reed "He'll be great if he lives long enough"........:-) /////if we're looking for the lamest performance of recent times then i think lou himself deserves a mention for lugging his tai chi guru onto "later" a few months back > > > /// Cobain just struck me as being fortunate to be in a guitar-based band > making the kind of noise that they did, at exactly the right time to ride a > wave. As a vocalist, he was no great shakes, ditto as a guitarist. Neither was > he particularly innovative in either field. > And speaking personally, neither do I think his songs are going to have any > great longevity. ////// nonononononon. come back in ten years time and let's see then. that's the rock band of the 90's that'll be remembered forever i'm sure. p ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 16:44:41 EDT From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Colin votes for KaitO In a message dated 17/08/2004 17:19:52 GMT Standard Time, zak_blakk@yahoo.com writes: > It does indeed probably depend where you live. Round these parts, rap is a > real minority interest. ////agree totally. can't see anyone that bothered. To me, the local 'kids' are polarised into the dance camp, and the metal camp. The > better-off teens all seem to have sub-woofers thudding away, and on the > other hand there's a surfeit of Slipknot &Manson t-shirts in evidence. //////nope , round here its the clever ones in the 6th form into muse , billy talent , funeral for a friend and (if anyone) the scallywags into dance stuff As for the young kids forming school-age 'bands', almost without exception, they're > metal outfits. > ////// agreed totally. and all so trad rock it makes me laugh. why on earth do 16 year olds do ACDC covers , please explain? p ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 17:09:31 -0500 From: "dan bailey" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Colin votes for KaitO > As for Shaun & Kurt, surely you have to acknowledge these two were > undoubtedly very talented? > > Mark a dissenting opinion re: mr ryder, courtesy of http://www.somethingawful.com/articles.php?a=2291 , consisting of the blogger's listing of "the worst rock stars ever" -- 9. Shaun Ryder - Until Prodigy allowed that hideous double-mohawked dancer to sing on tracks, electronic acts were sadly lacking in frontmen. Nobody wants to put posters of pudgy bald guys in windbreakers over their beds, so in the eighties and early nineties the youth culture of England developed a brief fascination with rave-friendly (but still band-oriented) dance-rock. It was the only way to reconcile their love of taking ecstasy with their love of rock-star worship. The Happy Mondays rode the crest of this wave, peaking with the Paul Oakenfold-produced 1991 album "Pills 'n Thrills and Bellyaches." I seem to recall there being about seventeen people in the band, but the only ones anyone might remember are lead "singer" Shaun Ryder and a drug-addled dancer named Bez (who was an official member of the band, although he did not actually do anything). Shaun Ryder was grotesquely ugly, high out of his mind all the time, and totally unable to sing, dance, play an instrument, or write anything but the most juvenile lyrics. He was, even with the aid of a teleprompter, prone to forgetting the words to his own songs while performing live. Unfortunately, if a band continues to sell records and attract a following, it is usually not economically viable to fire the singer due to gross incompetence. In Shaun Ryder's case, however, it probably would have been a good idea; due to his heavy addiction to every single controlled substance known to man, he duped Factory Records into sinking more and more money into the notoriously terrible follow-up to "Pills 'n Thrills," eventually leading to the label's financial collapse. Lowest Point - Recording an inept cover of Freddie Mercury's "Barcelona" as a duet with an opera singer. Must be heard to be believed. Still unbelievable when heard, in fact. Mitigating Factor - While serving as the singer of Black Grape, penned the line "Jesus was a black man / No, Jesus was Batman / No, that was Bruce Wayne." the others -- 10 john lydon (for his desperate recent celebrity-ism) 8 lenny kravitz 7 axl rose (who i'm pretty sure i've mentioned before actually was born with the same name as my father, bill bailey ... oh, the shame!) 6 liam gallagher 5 steven tyler 4 morrissey 3 ted nugent 2 bono 1 jobriath ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 23:16:30 +0100 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Colin votes for KaitO > > Wasn't it that little 'demonstration' of the Vines' singer that elicited > > the remark from Lou Reed "He'll be great if he lives long enough"........:-) This reminds me of a recent Noel Gallagher remark that brings us back to... The Libertines! Apparently, on meeting Mick Jones favourite group, the mouthy Mancunian uttered the immortal line "Is your lead singer dead yet?" Yeah, I know it's tasteless, but unlike his infamous Blur / Aids remark, this one did - I'm ashamed to say - raise a smile. K. np Wire - send ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 20:46:57 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Colin votes for KaitO >>//// Yeah, I'd forgotten about *that* being in the same show! << Not the same episode - would have been a treat to see Vinestosser and LIbertinesmackhead try to out-fuckup each other, with Jools Holland accompanying both on rinky-dinky honky-tonky pianner! >>Wasn't it that little 'demonstration' of the Vines' singer that elicited the remark from Lou Reed "He'll be great if he lives long enough"........:-)<< That's the one. Lou's peformance was of note, featuring not a drummer but a Tai Chi master. Behold, fucked-up Vinestosser. Make 60 and you can find whole new ways of crapness that don't involve hurling yourself into a drum kit. I'd quite like to see Vinestosser hurl himself into a Tai Chi master (with JH tinkling the ivories of the old Joanna by way of accompaniment, natch).... >>Nah, even if his bloodstream *was* probably composed of 95% Methadone and smack, it was painfully obvious that being out of it notwithstanding, he couldn't play a note. I have seen bands who's chemical amusement appetites are legendary, but if they can play to any degree, they just wing it on auto-pilot, and make a decent fist of it. I'm not even sure he wanted to try playing 'properly', whatever that is:- it struck me that just being in a band, *any* band was good enough for him & his ambitions , (such as they were), without all that tiresome business of learning to play.<< Don't think Malcolm McLaren had Sid's future planned as an instrumentalist! >> I'm not alone in this opinion: no less an in-the-know person as J Lydon has stated numerous times, in no uncertain fashion, that "Sydney just *couldn't play:- he was hopeless". Now I'm sure we can all agree that technique is not the be-all and end-all in terms of being a 'musician', but surely being on nodding terms with your instrument is a big help.<< Had Sid lived, you can be sure that Malcy would have had a Sid-fronted "Sex Pistols" on the circuit. >>Knowing the perverse nature of the Brit tabloids, though, you may well have a point about his [imagined] status as a 'much-loved entertainer':- he could well have been on the Supermarket-opening circuit by now.....<< Much higher up the list, I'd say. At least Jeremy Clarkson level ;-) >>/// Cobain just struck me as being fortunate to be in a guitar-based band making the kind of noise that they did, at exactly the right time to ride a wave. As a vocalist, he was no great shakes, ditto as a guitarist. Neither was he particularly innovative in either field. << Totally disagree. Nirvana IS a distillation of a lot of stuff - 80s US hardcore, post-punk, 70s soft rock - but put togeher far more imaginatively than most "record collection rockers". It WAS very true to punk ideals - and it would have got a lot more interesting (Leadbelly covers on Unplugged prefigures the White Stripes by a decade, for example). Would have got VERY interesting if Kurt's Young Marble Giants/Raincoats influences had bubbled to the surface too. >>And speaking personally, neither do I think his songs are going to have any great longevity.<< I think you're wrong. Young death casts a massive spell - so regardless of the merits of Nirvana, they're going to be around for a long while (see also Joy Division, Jeff Buckley etc). >> Maybe it's just me, but I can't entirely divorce his work from his self-doubting /pitying/ loathing , gun-and-death fixated personality.<< Again I suspect he'd have got over that if he'd lived. >>Shaun Ryder I'm a little bit more inclined to see the merit in: the Mondays' fusion of dance beats/shuffles and rock sensibilities *are* more innovative, and certainly got my feet a-twitching when I saw 'em, but to what degree can Mr Ryder take the credit for that? He *did* have rather a large band with him in that project, too..........Maybe the credit should be spread around a little, there?<< HMs was very much Shaun's band - but credit indeed to the rest of them for nailing together something inimitable from their influences. More to the point, the echoes of both Nirvana and 'Madchester' are still very much with us. Not all good, but unavoidable. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 20:57:18 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Colin votes for KaitO >>a dissenting opinion re: mr ryder, courtesy of http://www.somethingawful.com/articles.php?a=2291 , consisting of the blogger's listing of "the worst rock stars ever" --<< Which translated says: Fat, ugly, druggy, non-musos = Unamerican Rock, therefore must be crap! Mark ;-) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 02:12:47 +0100 From: Tim Subject: [idealcopy] Happy Mondays Derek White wrote: > Shaun Ryder I'm a little bit more inclined to see the merit in: the > Mondays' fusion of dance beats/shuffles and rock sensibilities *are* > more innovative, and certainly got my feet a-twitching when I saw > 'em, but to what degree can Mr Ryder take the credit for that? > He *did* have rather a large band with him in that project, > too.......... My appreciation of the Mondays is based on two albums, their (John Cale Produced) debut and The 2nd Mondays LP 'Bummed', which is one of my favourite LPs ever. Its a shame they are remembered for the indie-dance Madchester stuff that followed, which had its moments but hasn't aged as well as the early stuff. It is of course more than Mr Ryder, they also had an excellent guitarist Mr Mark Day, who plays sleazy, slide guitar. And before they got the Dance Remixers in they had a great, thunderous rhythm section in the shape of Gaz Whelan and Paul Ryder. Credit on 'Bummed' is also due to Martin Hannett, his last classic work probably. Just listen to track one 'Country Song' with its mad percussion, bar-room piano and weird farmyard sound effects....oh and it frequently references the brilliant Donald Cammel/Nicolas Roeg film 'Performance'...not bad for a bunch of pilled-up, petty criminals from Little Hulton. As for Shauns lyrics, I'm with Tony Wilson on this."I'm a simple city boy with stupid country tastes", "Be No Taxi...Get No Radio Car", "We've got two bent pigs in the crash downstairs below, chewing at the door asking why you so slow?", "I've just got back from from a year in the sack, must have been something i've eaten somewhere", "Son, I'm 30...I only went with your mother cos she's dirty". Beat that Dylan. (better than Barney Sumners lyrics anyway) N.P. Neutral Milk Hotel - "The Aeroplane Over The Sea" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 01:47:14 +0000 From: dpbailey@att.net Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Colin votes for KaitO - -------------- Original message from MarkBursa@aol.com: -------------- > >>a dissenting opinion re: mr ryder, courtesy of > http://www.somethingawful.com/articles.php?a=2291 , consisting of the > blogger's listing of "the worst rock stars ever" --<< > > > > Which translated says: Fat, ugly, druggy, non-musos = Unamerican Rock, > therefore must be crap! > > Mark ;-) except i suppose for lenny kravitz, who isn't fat, ugly or non-american, but nonetheless is the musical equivalent of a xerox machine & therefore a particularly useless piece of crap. dan ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 22:54:53 -0500 From: "dan bailey" Subject: [idealcopy] fall bbc box? anyone know any details about the following, as listed by cdnow? a quck glance at the fallnews site yielded nothing, other than the notation that a set of all 2 dozen or so peel sessions could be coming in 2005 ... Fall: BBC Sessions (CD) Release Date: Monday, August 23, 2004 Box Set Sale Price: $50.55 dan ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V7 #244 *******************************