From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V7 #243 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Wednesday, August 18 2004 Volume 07 : Number 243 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [idealcopy] Colin votes for KaitO ["Keith Astbury" ] Re: [idealcopy] erics [Bart van Damme ] Re: [idealcopy] Colin votes for KaitO [Derek White ] Re: [idealcopy] Colin votes for KaitO [Derek White ] Re: [idealcopy] Colin votes for KaitO [MarkBursa@aol.com] [idealcopy] Oh What To Do ["Tim ****" ] [idealcopy] John Duncan & Graham Lewis: Presence [Jan Noorda Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Colin votes for KaitO > > Personally I think his music is tired retro bollocks and if it were not > > for all the drug/rehab mayhem nobody would give a fuck about the > > Libertines backward, rambling Sham-69-esque druggy dirges. > > > > ///// i despair at the NME. is this really the best they can come up with?. > its been a joke for years but their worship of the libertines is maybe the most > desperate line they've been down yet. i had the misfortune to see the > libertines live in 2001 and they struck me as a bad lurkers tribute band. and they > still sound the same now. yet i see uncut raving about the new album too. can > anybody explain the appeal of this bunch? beats me completely. p You mean there's a *good* Lurkers tribute band out there somewhere? Crikey ; ) I can't see the appeal of the Libertines either, though I suspect some folk have been swayed not just by Mick Jones involement, but his OTT platitudes. Having said all that, I thought Doherty's single with Wolfman (For Lovers) was rather lovely. Keith ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 14:37:16 +0100 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: [idealcopy] erics Subject: Future Exhibitions at the Museum of Liverpool Life Anyone who ever went to Erics might want to have a day out here! = http://www.liverpoolmuseums.org.uk/whatsonnet/futureExhibitions.aspx?venu= e=3D8 [demime 0.97c-p1 removed an attachment of type application/octet-stream which had a name of Future Exhibitions at the Museum of Liverpool Life.url] ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 16:59:25 +0200 From: Bart van Damme Subject: Re: [idealcopy] erics That's a very nice Peter Rabbit exhibition Keith, thank you for sharing it with us... Bart ;-) > Subject: Future Exhibitions at the Museum of Liverpool Life > > Anyone who ever went to Erics might want to have a day out here! > > = > http://www.liverpoolmuseums.org.uk/whatsonnet/futureExhibitions.aspx?venu= > e=3D8 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 08:50:20 -0700 (PDT) From: Derek White Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Colin votes for KaitO Tim wrote: PaulRabjohn@aol.com wrote: > > still think we're gonna end up with a "new smiths" , somebody will be working > on this as we speak. not a lot of competition about for whoever gets it right > :-) p Tim wrote: NME seems to think this is The Libertines and the new "Morrissey" is Pete Doherty............., a Rock & roll tragedy waiting to happen, a man with all the worst bits of Kurt Cobain, Shaun Ryder and Sid Vicious all rolled into one...and none of the talent.............Personally I think his music is tired retro bollocks and if it were not for all the drug/rehab mayhem nobody would give a fuck about the Libertines backward, rambling Sham-69-esque druggy dirges. ////// That about hits it squarely on the head for me, too. I personally haven't bought the NME for yonks now, as it seemed to me the paper and it's writers had given up on anyone over 21, and I got heartily sick of the cyclical "build'em up, then knock'em down" writing tack they were taking. If they championed the Libertines, then I'm not surprised, as they love a bit of ready-prepared 'danger'. The fact that is blindingly obvious to most is that they're about as dangerous as athlete's foot. Their music is, so far as I've heard, indeed vacuous, lame retro-bollocks of the first water. They even had the brass neck to do a song about "The boys in the band"(!!??*), about the joys of 'life on the road'?? Puh-lease! Songs of this ilk were derided as tired old shite in 197x, so what does that make them now? An appearance on 'Later' in the 2003 series perhaps qualifies as THE worst TV appearance by a band, ever. Lawdy, how I wish they'd go away......... Incidentally, Tim: this 'talent' you spotted in messrs Vicous , Ryder and Cobain:- Que? I must have blinked and missed it...;-) Derek Yahoo! Mail is new and improved - Check it out! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 09:05:28 -0700 (PDT) From: Derek White Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Colin votes for KaitO "j.hobson" wrote: > ///////that was one of the things i was wondering ; do 14 year olds actually > buy FF singles? can't see it going on round here. they all seem to like heavy > metal....... Depends were you live. In Londonium its rap that rules. .............. Maybe more relevant are the Streets, Dizzy Rascal and Estelle as to the direction UK music is moving. There are literally hundreds of pirate radio stations playing Urban so its a genuine street up music form. The good signs are that a more distinctive British strain is now developing. It does indeed probably depend where you live. Round these parts, rap is a real minority interest. To me, the local 'kids' are polarised into the dance camp, and the metal camp. The better-off teens all seem to have sub-woofers thudding away, and on the other hand there's a surfeit of Slipknot & Manson t-shirts in evidence. As for the young kids forming school-age 'bands', almost without exception, they're metal outfits. Now I live in such an off-the-beaten-track corner that trends per se tend to arrive at least a year late: even so, I detect no signs whatsoever that rap / urban is making anything but a small inroad, and beyond the big metropolitan centres, I don't see it happening, either. Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 12:15:51 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Colin votes for KaitO In a message dated 8/17/2004 5:00:00 PM GMT Daylight Time, zak_blakk@yahoo.com writes: >>An appearance on 'Later' in the 2003 series perhaps qualifies as THE worst TV appearance by a band, ever.<< Surpassed surely by the Vines on the same show, when their "troubled" singer goes mental during the first song, trashes guitar and drumkit - then has to quietly set it all up again for the next number. A classic. >>Incidentally, Tim: this 'talent' you spotted in messrs Vicous , Ryder and Cobain:- Que?<< Sid was never straight enough to demonstrate whether or not he actually was talented - I suspect that had he lived, he'd be a much-loved entertainer by now, though in quite what guise I don't know... As for Shaun & Kurt, surely you have to acknowledge these two were undoubtedly very talented? Mark ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 00:54:36 +0800 From: "Tim ****" Subject: [idealcopy] Oh What To Do http://www.virginprunes.com/mute/colin_newman_remixes_baby_turns_blue.html Tim _________________________________________________________________ In the market for a car? Buy, sell or browse at CarPoint: http://server-au.imrworldwide.com/cgi-bin/b?cg=link&ci=ninemsn&tu=http://carpoint.ninemsn.com.au?refid=hotmail_tagline ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 10:46:20 -0700 (PDT) From: Jan Noorda Subject: [idealcopy] John Duncan & Graham Lewis: Presence http://www.allquestions.net/index.html PRESENCE John Duncan & Edvard Graham Lewis 2004 PURPOSE STIMULATED FALL CYCLE STEP John Duncan: procesing, shortwave, field recording Edvard Graham Lewis: voice, words, field recording CD in special doublefold paper cover : The alternatives still held considerable potential The essential sway or ppphhhooot! He felt completely vulnarable The protection of the narcotic curse was gone and the inclusive was only empty, black and total Measuring boundaries is human but... Faking dreams was God-like... All purpose stimulated All presence amplifies It was like this That was understandable - -- Edvard Graham Lewis New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 19:52:15 +0100 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Colin votes for KaitO > In a message dated 8/17/2004 5:00:00 PM GMT Daylight Time, > zak_blakk@yahoo.com writes: > > >>An appearance on 'Later' in the 2003 series perhaps qualifies as THE worst > TV appearance by a band, ever.<< > Surpassed surely by the Vines on the same show, when their "troubled" singer > goes mental during the first song, trashes guitar and drumkit - then has to > quietly set it all up again for the next number. A classic. Oh yeah. The Vines win that particular competition for me. Hilariously bad! Still, it if was judged purely on the music, my number one is still undoubtedly Eric Burdon's cod-reggae version of Don't Let Me Be Misunderstood. Bob Marley apologised fom the grave for giving reggae to the world, whilst a generation of aging pop fans were seen to mirror 1960's Beatles fans and burn their Animals records due to Burdon's Bigger than Cod performance. > >>Incidentally, Tim: this 'talent' you spotted in messrs Vicous , Ryder and > Cobain:- Que?<< > > As for Shaun & Kurt, surely you have to acknowledge these two were > undoubtedly very talented? Anyone see the Ryder documentary on BBC2 recently. Excellent (as was the Gil Scott Heron, Viv Stanshall and Robert Wyatt shows). I felt really sorry for SR by the end. K. np The Fall - unutterable > > Mark ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 01:06:08 +0100 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Oh What To Do > http://www.virginprunes.com/mute/colin_newman_remixes_baby_turns_blue.html > > Tim Thanks for this, Tim. I'd not seen that Colin 2003 interview before. A couple of bits below for those who haven't read the links... First Colin talking about 80's production.... CN: A Bell Is A Cup, certainly from a commercial point of view, would be a very, very good one to have a go at. But from the band's perspective-not my perspective-they don't think that A Bell Is A Cup is such a huge, great statement. But from my perspective, I think that and The Drill are my two favorite 80s Wire albums. I don't like The Ideal Copy. The Ideal Copy ... really really really was an absolute fucking mess. I actually ... there was just way too much shit. Wire is very intense. And when people get together, we have this very intense kind of energy-we are best in small doses. There is something within the way that the people interact - I don't know really, I don't really want to overanalyze it or whatever, but some people always said that it was positive tension, but I don't really think that it's really true, and we've proved that with the new material-it's been produced in a very ... untense way. Very relaxed atmosphere, it's mainly just Bruce and I working together. I don't think any of that creative tension is really helping us at all, I think it is just ... and I think one of the intelligent ways that Wire can be curated for the future, or that we can get the best out of anything, is by not just sticking everybody in a room all the time. I don't think that necessarily produces the best results. There were just too many opinions going on about how it's supposed to be-and I don't think that it's a very creative thing. If the opinions of the input could be somehow mediated, and there's a kind of a discussion going on about it, a sort of curation of the item, then the whole thing can be very, very positive. Wire can be so intense as to be unbearable-in a way, you hear it in the music, but what you hear in the music is a very positive way about it. Not very negative, then. And this about the current line-up... Stylus: -so you'd never really have a more pop song, then, like "Map Reference 41N 93W," [from 154] "Outdoor Miner," or "Another The Letter" [both from Chairs Missing] in your set- CN: -the thing is, Wire can't really play those songs. I mean, "Outdoor Miner"-Bruce doesn't actually play on the recording. Wire is not genius at doing that sort of stuff-if you notice, the one criticism of the newer version of Wire that people seem to have, they say, "yes, it's really vibrant, and it's really exciting ... but they don't really do any pop tunes." You know, and I think it's because Wire, as a unit, especially live, is unable to put that across without any conviction. It's not that we're being macho or it's too girly, because that's the one thing that Wire isn't is it's just Wire is not very good-it does 10 or up, but it doesn't do 6 or 7. You know, it just doesn't. I mean, especially live-but it's not that I'm against doing any sort of pop, I think that's what a few people pick up on in Read and Burn 02, and there's "Trash/Treasure," which is a pop song, of some kind-it's sort of bastard pop, isn't it? It's never going to get in any chart, anywhere, of any kind. But still, it's got a tune, it's got a verse and a chorus, with proper singing, so without any shouting. I've read tons of reviews-we've only had two bad reviews of it out of fifty reviews, and they both said that there were no pop songs on it. And they're exactly right, there aren't any tunes, really. But I mean, there are also some things we obviously can't do live, like "Nice Streets Above," because it's so obviously structured like a dance track. And, it's been one of my concerns-though not for anyone else in the band, aside from Rob-that we have stuff within Read and Burn 03 that can be played live, and we can go on from that. We don't just suddenly get to the point where nothing we do can be played live anymore. Because that will be a loss, I do think that we need-it works very well as a stand-up band, and I don't think in any way it's a conventional rock band. It's a unique, remarkable thing in full flight, makes a fucking racket... (Me: And I particularly like this next bit!!) ...And the way it looks is even more extraordinary-a bunch of old blokes shouting at you. You know, and fucking loud. Excellent!! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 14:36:59 +1000 (EST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Phillip=20Blakeney?= Subject: [idealcopy] Stranglers (OT) G'day The Stranglers are putting in an appearance in Sydney shortly. I was wondering whether any IC-ers can recommend (or not) this band's recent form. Are they worth seeing??? (I can remember seeing them in Brisbane in early 1979. I was involved in the local community radio station that was doing the organising for the night's gig. The band used to like to throw a handful of mixed lollies out into the audience (forget the song). I was charged with the considerable task of buying the lollies as the band refused to begin without them. Now.....in the 70s Brisbane was a big ol' country town (albeit 750,000 people) and NOTHING was still open at that time of night, so it was a frantic rush chasing down the damn things. The night was also memorable (once the gig got going) for the sight of JJ Burnel, leaping off the stage mid-song and whacking the fellow (nearly)next to me with his guitar because he was 'gobbing' on the band! After that JJ jumped back on stage and the band continued as if nothing had happened.) Phillip from Australia - --------------------------------- Find local movie times and trailers on Yahoo! Movies. ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V7 #243 *******************************