From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V7 #217 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Saturday, July 24 2004 Volume 07 : Number 217 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [idealcopy] RE: idealcopy-digest V7 #216 ["anastasia" ] Re: AW: [idealcopy] Ari's top ten [Derek White ] Re: [idealcopy] move ["Keith Astbury" ] [idealcopy] Fw: Julian Cope Bed Sheet ["Keith Astbury" ] Re: [idealcopy] move [PaulRabjohn@aol.com] [idealcopy] Fw: Julian Cope Bed Sheet ["Keith Astbury" ] Re: [idealcopy] 23 skidoo... [Eardrumbuz@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] Fw: Julian Cope Bed Sheet [Ari ] Re: AW: [idealcopy] Ari's top ten ["Tim ****" ] Re: [idealcopy] 23 skidoo... [Eardrumbuz@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] move [PaulRabjohn@aol.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2004 23:03:55 +1000 From: "anastasia" Subject: [idealcopy] RE: idealcopy-digest V7 #216 >Comsat Angels. Started strong and lost drive from album to album ... What I still like is an ep with "at sea" on it. Oh you think? They have some great albums. > >4. Porcupine Trees (If you like Pink Floyd you will love > them, I suggest > >their album called 'Stupid Dream') > > Hhluuurlghh.... Well, I "winmx'd" some of their stuff recently. Downloaded a complete album (in absentia) and really love this one. Will search for more songs from them and probably buy some. Yes Frank you should. I have 'absentia' I have a heard it a few times; I've forgotten what its like. Try 'Stupid Dream' like I mentioned once. There is a song on it called 'This Is No Rehearsal' so sad if you are familiar with the kidnapping and killing of the Bolger child... LightBulb Sun is a good one too... I highly recommend these albums... Ari, I haven't heard the WIRE albums as yet I have been so pre-occupied with so many things... I will certainly give you a report once I've heard them... So sorry for the late reply. anastasia ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2004 09:36:06 -0700 (PDT) From: Derek White Subject: Re: AW: [idealcopy] Ari's top ten Woerner Frank-Juergen wrote: Re: [idealcopy] Ari's top ten > >Comsat Angels (sorry I couldn't resist, try 'Sleep No More' and > >'Fiction first') > > Like dan, I loved these guys around independence days a few decades ago. I > have some vinyl somewhere that I'd play for old times' sake if I had a > turntable that worked. I gather they are still active? > Still mining that chiming echoey guitar big drum sound vein? Comsat Angels.:-Started strong and lost drive from album to album ... //// Like the author of the above, I think 'Sleep no more' is a great piece of work, and although I'm not as well aquainted with it, so too is ' On the beach' (the one with 'Independence day' on it(?)) However, I also have a copy of a later album of theirs called '"7 day weekend", and it's a bit lame to be absolutely honest, and one of the biggest disappointments *is* the complete absence of that HUGE drum sound. Best avoided, really, and according to Mark B. that goes for all the 'Jive'-era stuff ....:-( For collectors of techno-trivia, I gather that they achieved *that* drum sound by setting up the drums at the bottom of a lift shaft, and miking them up for ambience from the floor above, as well as mic'ing the direct sound, the self-same technique Led Zep used for "When the Levee breaks" off the 4th album. I even seem to remember that they recorded it at the same place(?) Hedley Grange:- a big, spooky old manor house. Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete - You start. We finish. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2004 22:24:54 +0100 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] move > I found it hard to appreciate The New York Dolls. Not heard much of them > beyond the odd clip on TV. > I don't want to diss the NY Dolls as I understand they had a real impact > at the time and appreciate their importance in the development of Punk > and what came after, but not knowing their stuff it was difficult for me > to grasp why on hearing their stuff cold. I didn't hear them at the time either. Bought the first album in, I guess, the early 80's, though by that time I was certainly familiar with the more famous songs. And though I would concede that the production is, at times, rather weedy, there are some great songs on it. > I just saw a band playing what to my ears was very, very straight Rock & > Roll with guitar solos and, to be harsh, some really bleeding obvious > Keef and Jagger Riffs n' Poses. Could have been watching an Aerosmith > tribute band for all I knew. Well DJ is undoubtedly a frontman in the Jagger tradition, but I have to say on the strength of one song on the telly, I was amazed at how good he's doing it at the moment. > I was baffled....Whatever it was that they had back then for people that > was so revolutionary, that made David change his surname to Sylvian > didn't come through. Unlike say The Ramones, Television or VU whose > records still sound amazing today...I feel you need to hear them very > much in the context of their time to "get" the Dolls. Is that unfair? Maybe not. But then I'm rather partial to early Stones and Iggy, who are probably the two of the closest reference points. > Good luck to 'em, but I was just left wishing Mozzer had brought Sparks > with him instead! Well, even though I ike the Dolls, it's certainly unlikely that anyone connected with the NYD could come close to matching the achievements of Sparks last album, Lil Beethoven!! Keith ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2004 22:26:11 +0100 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: [idealcopy] Fw: Julian Cope Bed Sheet ##########################################################################= ######=0D=0A#Panda=20Antivirus=20Platinum=20warning=0D=0A#=0D=0A#The=20fil= e=20eBay=20item=203829582739=20(Ends=2030-Jul-04=20130947=20BST)=20-=20Jul= ian=20Cope=20Bed=20Sheet.url=20was=20potentially=20dangerous=20and=20has= =20been=20moved=20to=20quarantine.=0D=0A##################################= ##############################################=0D=0A=0D=0A=0D=0A=0D=0ANow= =20I=20like=20Julian=20rather=20a=20lot,=20but=20not=20even=20I=20will=20b= e=20bidding=20for=20this!!=0D=0A=0D=0A"This=20is=20a=20unique=20item.=0D= =0A=0D=0AMy=20girlfriend=20used=20to=20work=20at=20a=20travelodge.=20=20On= e=20day=20Julian=20Cope=20used=20the=20one=20she=20was=20working=20at=20(C= ornwall)=20to=20stay=20over=20night=20whilst=20doing=20research=20for=20th= e=20Modern=20Antiquairain.=0D=0A=0D=0AThis=20is=20the=20actual=20bed=20she= et=20from=20the=20bed=20he=20sleept=20in,=20on=20the=20moring=20after.=20= =20It=20is=20unwashed=20and=20is=20sweat=20stained=20in=20some=20places.= =20Also=20includes=20a=20couple=20of=20pubic=20hair"=20=0D=0A=0D=0A=0D=0A= =20http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=3D2250&item=3D= 3829582739&rd=3D1=0D=0A=0D=0A [demime 0.97c-p1 removed an attachment of type application/octet-stream which had a name of eBay item 3829582739 (Ends 30-Jul-04 130947 BST) - Julian Cope Bed Sheet.url] ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2004 22:52:18 +0100 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: [idealcopy] 23 skidoo... > << np 23 Skiddoo - s/t >> PJ asked... > what's your verdict on this one Keith. i picked up a copy i found in a used shop about a yeaer ago, and i honestly can't decide what to make of it. there are times when i think it's genius, and times when i think it's shite. Well it's not Seven Songs, that's for sure. I *loved* that album. As for 23 Skidoo, I only picked it up a month or so ago, so it's early days, but on initial plays I think it's a bit of a mixed bag. I knew a couple of tracks before I got it - the excellent opening track Freeze Frame was on a free cd and Dawning was a single that I liked a lot. There's some other good stuff - I like Dirty Lo, Meltdown has a nice Transglobal Underground feel to it and Atmosfear has a great bassline, though admittedly it's not in the class of Coup (but then what is?). But there's also times when sound like they want to be Massive Attack rather than 23 Skidoo, and others when it gets too close to the dreaded four letter word that is jazz for my liking. But then I don't think Dawning exactly blew me away at first and now I love it's lazy, lazy feel so I'll stick with it. And yeah, I *know* that one's pretty jazzy itself, but in a good way ; ) Keith ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2004 17:58:20 EDT From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] move In a message dated 23/07/2004 22:37:06 GMT Standard Time, keith.indoorminer@virgin.net writes: > Well DJ is undoubtedly a frontman in the Jagger tradition, but I have to > say > on the strength of one song on the telly, I was amazed at how good he's > doing it at the moment. //////i was surprised how good it looked too........wish i'd been there. > > >I was baffled....Whatever it was that they had back then for people that > >was so revolutionary, that made David change his surname to Sylvian > >didn't come through. Unlike say The Ramones, Television or VU whose > >records still sound amazing today...I feel you need to hear them very > >much in the context of their time to "get" the Dolls. Is that unfair? > > Maybe not. But then I'm rather partial to early Stones and Iggy, who are > probably the two of the closest reference points. ///// i think the proto-pistols thing still comes through really well. i think i'm right in saying they didn't do the johnny thunders songs on this comeback , and he was a huge part of what they had. JT bought a lot of moves over to the class of 77 (and also some unfortunate lifestyle choices......) > > >Good luck to 'em, but I was just left wishing Mozzer had brought Sparks > >with him instead! > > Well, even though I ike the Dolls, it's certainly unlikely that anyone > connected with the NYD could come close to matching the achievements of > Sparks last album, Lil Beethoven!! //////good grief keith , away from the sparks massive i think the impact of LB was zero whereas the NYD have influenced people for 30 years. c'mon........ p ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Jul 2004 00:50:16 +0100 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: [idealcopy] Fw: Julian Cope Bed Sheet Try again! Now I like Julian rather a lot, but not even I will be bidding for = this!! "This is a unique item. My girlfriend used to work at a travelodge. One day Julian Cope used = the one she was working at (Cornwall) to stay over night whilst doing = research for the Modern Antiquairain. This is the actual bed sheet from the bed he sleept in, on the moring = after. It is unwashed and is sweat stained in some places. Also = includes a couple of pubic hair"=20 = http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=3D2250&item=3D38= 29582739&rd=3D1 [demime 0.97c-p1 removed an attachment of type application/octet-stream which had a name of eBay item 3829582739 (Ends 30-Jul-04 130947 BST) - Julian Cope Bed Sheet.url] ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Jul 2004 01:23:00 +0100 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] move > ///// i think the proto-pistols thing still comes through really well. i > think i'm right in saying they didn't do the johnny thunders songs on this > comeback , and he was a huge part of what they had. JT bought a lot of moves over to > the class of 77 Yeah, but how much of this was due to JT gatecrashing the Eng punk thing with his Heartbreakers and then folk working their way backwards to the Dolls? > > >Good luck to 'em, but I was just left wishing Mozzer had brought Sparks > > >with him instead! > > > > Well, even though I ike the Dolls, it's certainly unlikely that anyone > > connected with the NYD could come close to matching the achievements of > > Sparks last album, Lil Beethoven!! > > > //////good grief keith , away from the sparks massive i think the impact of > LB was zero whereas the NYD have influenced people for 30 years. c'mon........ Be fair. LB hasn't had as long to reach people has it - it only came out last year! Don't get me wrong, I'm not Sparks number one fan - although I saw them back in 1974 and bought Kimono My House and Propaganda, I'm certainly not part of any Sparks massive. I must have then gone 20 yrs without buying anything by them, and certainly never ever felt the need for the silly moustache ; ) But as much as I like the Dolls first album, it's not fit to lick the boots of Kimono My House (or Propaganda for that matter) IMO - given the choice between This Town Ain't Big Enough and Personality Crisis, I know which I'd choose, no matter how much I like the latter. Frankly I don't care if it's as influential. Who'd wanna see a band of Mael copyists anyway? (OK, maybe I would....) Sparks were, for better or worse, unique. Anyway, at the risk of repeating myself, the last couple of Sparks LP's have been excellent. Balls was the toon filled pop one, LB the big orchestral set with a fab production. It's one of the best albums I've heard in recent yrs and it's no insult to Johansson or Sylvain for me to say that I'd fall off my stool if they made an album half as good. Because that goes for virtually every act I can think of. Keith ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2004 21:58:03 EDT From: Eardrumbuz@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] 23 skidoo... In a message dated 7/23/04 5:58:49 PM, keith.indoorminer@virgin.net writes: << As for 23 Skidoo, I only picked it up a month or so ago, so it's early days, but on initial plays I think it's a bit of a mixed bag. >> is this cd literally 'a mixed bag' of tracks spanning a big period of time? you mention early days, but some of the descriptions sound like they belong to the later period (massive attack-ish, jazzy). the first thing i got by them was their first single (another baby's face) which for years afterwards had me questioning whether it was the same band each time i bought another record. nothing i picked up after that 7" sounded anything like it. - -paul c.d. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2004 19:15:47 -0700 (PDT) From: Ari Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Fw: Julian Cope Bed Sheet Message understood,over and out.(funny looking bed-sheet,but that's Julian for ya) Ari - --- Keith Astbury wrote: > ##########################################################################= > ######=0D=0A#Panda=20Antivirus=20Platinum=20warning=0D=0A#=0D=0A#The=20fil= > e=20eBay=20item=203829582739=20(Ends=2030-Jul-04=20130947=20BST)=20-=20Jul= > ian=20Cope=20Bed=20Sheet.url=20was=20potentially=20dangerous=20and=20has= > =20been=20moved=20to=20quarantine.=0D=0A##################################= > ##############################################=0D=0A=0D=0A=0D=0A=0D=0ANow= > =20I=20like=20Julian=20rather=20a=20lot,=20but=20not=20even=20I=20will=20b= > e=20bidding=20for=20this!!=0D=0A=0D=0A"This=20is=20a=20unique=20item.=0D= > =0A=0D=0AMy=20girlfriend=20used=20to=20work=20at=20a=20travelodge.=20=20On= > e=20day=20Julian=20Cope=20used=20the=20one=20she=20was=20working=20at=20(C= > ornwall)=20to=20stay=20over=20night=20whilst=20doing=20research=20for=20th= > e=20Modern=20Antiquairain.=0D=0A=0D=0AThis=20is=20the=20actual=20bed=20she= > et=20from=20the=20bed=20he=20sleept=20in,=20on=20the=20moring=20after.=20= > =20It=20is=20unwashed=20and=20is=20sweat=20stained=20in=20some=20places.= > =20Also=20includes=20a=20couple=20of=20pubic=20hair"=20=0D=0A=0D=0A=0D=0A= > =20http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=3D2250&item=3D= > 3829582739&rd=3D1=0D=0A=0D=0A > > [demime 0.97c-p1 removed an attachment of type > application/octet-stream which had a name of eBay > item 3829582739 (Ends 30-Jul-04 130947 BST) - Julian > Cope Bed Sheet.url] > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Jul 2004 02:27:42 +0100 From: Tim Subject: Re: [idealcopy] move > But as much as I like the Dolls first album, it's not fit to lick the boots > of Kimono My House (or Propaganda for that matter) I'm assuming NYDs just bucked the trend by being a shambolic hard rock band who couldn't really play but looked good, before it was fashionable (i.e when Punk came along). Who'd wanna see a band of Mael copyists anyway? Me! LB the big orchestral set > with a fab production. > I've said it before, Lil Beethoven seems to have been constructed in a similar way to Read & Burn. Sparks getting into looping their own sounds, and repeating phrases into a hypnotic, heavily processed version of prime-era Sparks in the same way R&B processes a PinkFlag era hyrbid Wire. Mozzers day at Move was turned into Mozzers Mini Meltdown (Linder, James Maker (the Smiths own "Bez" for their first couple of gigs!), Ordinary Boys, Beta Band (moz likes em apparently)) Moz did reveal the fact that the Dolls were supposed to have played 30 years ago at venue which once stood on the site of B&Q next to Old Trafford, but had to cancel due to death of their drummer....Mozzer still has his ticket apparently...so that explains why he insisted on having NYD before him. NYD met a fairly bemused repsonse from the crowd. The Moz die-hards clapped their masters fave band dutifully, the rest of the crowd wondered why The Counterfeit Stones were playing. I do think if Sparks had been on and played 'This Town...', 'Amateur Hour', 'Something for the Girl With Everything' etc etc they would have gone down a storm and won a whole bunch of new fans...(shame they don't play more often). ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Jul 2004 10:36:55 +0800 From: "Tim ****" Subject: Re: AW: [idealcopy] Ari's top ten If you haven't heard it? I put the Comsat Angels 1st single 'Red Planet' - Dead Good Records 1978 over here - http://defiantpose.homestead.com A piece of pop which i still like.Thoughts? If i've mentioned this before ignore my middle age moment.. Tim - ----Original Message Follows---- From: Derek White To: idealcopy@smoe.org, Woerner Frank-Juergen Subject: Re: AW: [idealcopy] Ari's top ten Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2004 09:36:06 -0700 (PDT) Woerner Frank-Juergen wrote: Re: [idealcopy] Ari's top ten > >Comsat Angels (sorry I couldn't resist, try 'Sleep No More' and > >'Fiction first') > > Like dan, I loved these guys around independence days a few decades ago. I > have some vinyl somewhere that I'd play for old times' sake if I had a > turntable that worked. I gather they are still active? > Still mining that chiming echoey guitar big drum sound vein? Comsat Angels.:-Started strong and lost drive from album to album ... //// Like the author of the above, I think 'Sleep no more' is a great piece of work, and although I'm not as well aquainted with it, so too is ' On the beach' (the one with 'Independence day' on it(?)) However, I also have a copy of a later album of theirs called '"7 day weekend", and it's a bit lame to be absolutely honest, and one of the biggest disappointments *is* the complete absence of that HUGE drum sound. Best avoided, really, and according to Mark B. that goes for all the 'Jive'-era stuff ....:-( For collectors of techno-trivia, I gather that they achieved *that* drum sound by setting up the drums at the bottom of a lift shaft, and miking them up for ambience from the floor above, as well as mic'ing the direct sound, the self-same technique Led Zep used for "When the Levee breaks" off the 4th album. I even seem to remember that they recorded it at the same place(?) Hedley Grange:- a big, spooky old manor house. Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete - You start. We finish. _________________________________________________________________ Searching for that dream home? Try http://ninemsn.realestate.com.au for all your property needs. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2004 22:49:22 -0500 From: "dan bailey" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] 23 skidoo... > As for 23 Skidoo, I only picked it up a month or so ago, so it's early days, > > but on initial plays I think it's a bit of a mixed bag. >> > > is this cd literally 'a mixed bag' of tracks spanning a big period of time? > you mention early days, i'm pretty sure keith was using the expression that over here (at least where i'm from) is perhaps more familiarly rendered as "it's early days yet," as in after only a month or so the disc is still sinking in. dan but some of the descriptions sound like they belong to > the later period (massive attack-ish, jazzy). the first thing i got by them > was their first single (another baby's face) which for years afterwards had me > questioning whether it was the same band each time i bought another record. > nothing i picked up after that 7" sounded anything like it. > > -paul c.d. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Jul 2004 00:21:23 EDT From: Eardrumbuz@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] 23 skidoo... In a message dated 7/23/04 11:51:04 PM, dpbailey@att.net writes: << > As for 23 Skidoo, I only picked it up a month or so ago, so it's early days, > > but on initial plays I think it's a bit of a mixed bag. >> > > is this cd literally 'a mixed bag' of tracks spanning a big period of time? > you mention early days, i'm pretty sure keith was using the expression that over here (at least where i'm from) is perhaps more familiarly rendered as "it's early days yet," as in after only a month or so the disc is still sinking in. >> ah, you know, not being familiar with the expression i didn't even notice the word 'so' until rereading it. then i gather this cd is of the later period stuff? looking at the cds ronin has released, there is a track called ethics on the end of one of em. anyone know if it's the same song as on the first 7"? - -paul c.d. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Jul 2004 03:46:35 EDT From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] move In a message dated 24/07/2004 01:26:24 GMT Standard Time, keith.indoorminer@virgin.net writes: > Yeah, but how much of this was due to JT gatecrashing the Eng punk thing > with his Heartbreakers and then folk working their way backwards to the > Dolls? /////well its both really , mclaren managed the dolls and lydon was writing "tributes" to them by 76 , so the pistols were well aware of them years before they ever met them. > > > > > Be fair. LB hasn't had as long to reach people has it - it only came out > last year! > > Don't get me wrong, I'm not Sparks number one fan - although I saw them back > in 1974 and bought Kimono My House and Propaganda, I'm certainly not part of > any Sparks massive. I must have then gone 20 yrs without buying anything by > them, and certainly never ever felt the need for the silly moustache ; ) /////i hate to tell you this , you've been into an act for 30 years and love the last couple of albums. you're not just one of the sparks massive but you're probably the president of the fan club too ;-) > > But as much as I like the Dolls first album, it's not fit to lick the boots > of Kimono My House (or Propaganda for that matter) IMO - given the choice > between This Town Ain't Big Enough and Personality Crisis, I know which I'd > choose, no matter how much I like the latter. Frankly I don't care if it's > as influential. Who'd wanna see a band of Mael copyists anyway? (OK, maybe I > would....) Sparks were, for better or worse, unique. //////well it gets down to personal taste really , that's why i talked about influencing people rather than just whether or not i like things myself. i guess the dolls did one thing very well , whereas sparks changed over a long career in a world where there is a Toto tribute band , i suspect there is a sparks one somewhere > > Anyway, at the risk of repeating myself, the last couple of Sparks LP's have > been excellent. Balls was the toon filled pop one, LB the big orchestral set > > with a fab production. It's one of the best albums I've heard in recent yrs > and it's no insult to Johansson or Sylvain for me to say that I'd fall off > my stool if they made an album half as good. Because that goes for virtually > every act I can think of. > > ///////i've heard bits and pieces but never whole albums. maybe i'll go > soulseek them ....p ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V7 #217 *******************************