From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V7 #208 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Thursday, July 15 2004 Volume 07 : Number 208 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [idealcopy] Wire on the Box 1979 [Jan Noorda ] [idealcopy] for all you old punks [Alistair Tear ] Re: [idealcopy] Wire on the Box 1979 [Andrew Walkingshaw ] [idealcopy] mtv2 tonight........... [PaulRabjohn@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] The Great Dichotomy of Pop ["Keith Astbury" Subject: [idealcopy] Wire on the Box 1979 Great news. WIRE ON THE BOX  DVD + Audio CD (PF7TV) AVAILABLE VERY SOON Since the dawn of the video age rock bands of almost any note are liable to have every minutiae of their career documented. Videos, TV & radio appearances, broadcast concerts, embarrassing jams with Jools etc etc. However it was not always thus. Before the 80s, outside of the confines of the odd whistle test appearance it was very unusual to see any broadcast footage of bands, however influential and however much lauded by the music press, who had no chart track record. Thus it was with Wire. Beyond a few seconds of snatched performance and a micro interview on Tony Wilsons precursor to so it goes and couple of mime alongs on Belgian TV there is no footage of 70s Wire beyond one item. Luckily that one item has been preserved. Although British viewers never got to see a live performance of Wire on their TVs, one Brit abroad saw their tele-visual potential and got into a position to make it happen. Alan Bangs had the late night show on British Forces radio in Germany. Although his show was broadcast in English his mid 70s shows were increasingly crossing over to a young German audience eager for earfood that their National broadcasters were not providing. With his impeccable German it also was inevitable that he himself would cross over to German speaking media so by early 1979 he had become a presenter of RockPalast an hour long studio concert slot on WDR which had already established itself as Germanys most important serious rock music show. Wire were old sparring partners of Alan, appearing on his radio show every time they were anywhere near Cologne and even hanging out with him at D|sseldorfs infamous Rattingerhof on the evening before the concert taping. So it was perhaps inevitable that Wire were one of the very few members of their musical generation that Alan managed to squeeze into the show. Although 15th generation VHS copies of the screened parts of this performance have been doing the bootleg rounds for many years. This DVD is the first time that the complete performance and the never screened interview have been brought together. The combination of video digitally cloned from the broadcast master and freshly mastered audio give the item a directness and completeness that so eclipse the bootleg as to take it into another realm altogether. Wires RockPalast appearance, dated Valentines day 1979, finds the band with a confidence born of a knowledge that their place in rock history is assured yet still possessing a freshness and willingness to push ahead as evinced by the fact that at least half the material is from the yet to be recorded "154". With the 20/20 hindsight the quality of this performance is such that it is able to simultaneously explode various Wire myths and perhaps create some new ones.. Wire have often described their 70s performances of being of variable quality, yet on this showing (and we have no others available to us) they execute their material with consummate skill, simultaneously exploding a second myth that Wires sound was all created in the studio. Material from Wires more technically accomplished Chairs Missing and 154 albums is immediately recognisable to anyone familiar with those releases and yes, that really is them playing it! Equally myth creating is the juxtaposition of the band against an audience of latter day German hippies who look vaguely bemused by the onstage goings on. Wire seem to be simultaneously from another planet and the future! Not only is this the only recorded complete audio visual representation of 70s Wire but to this date there has also not been a live album released of 70s Wire so in a move sure to make every Wire fan happy Pinkflag have packaged this product as a DVD plus a CD of the audio performance only. This release is currently in production and will be a avialable very soon -priced at #15.00 - exclusively through PostEverything in a double digipack until it receives general release later this year. Please check back often as this item will not be added as a product to the PostEverything website until it is physically in stock. Please do not write to PostEverything about this as it will be available to buy just as soon as there is stock. Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 15:38:07 +0100 From: Alistair Tear Subject: [idealcopy] for all you old punks very silly boots indeed ;-) A http://www.cloggs.co.uk/invt/290 ************************************************************************* The contents of the e-mail and any transmitted files are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. Transport for London Street Management hereby excludes any warranty and any liability as to the quality or accuracy of the contents of this e-mail and any attached transmitted files. If you are not the intended recipient, be advised that you have received this e-mail in error and that any use, dissemination, forwarding, printing or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please notify postmaster@Streetmanagement.org.uk. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept for the presence of computer viruses. ************************************************************************* ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 16:38:55 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Monochromatic=20Man?= Subject: Re: [idealcopy] for all you old punks "black leather 'Sid Vicious' boots with headline print and 10-eyelets. Great alternative footwear!" Alternative to not wearing shoes at all? wnd3 - --- Alistair Tear wrote: > very silly boots indeed ;-) > > A > > http://www.cloggs.co.uk/invt/290 ___________________________________________________________ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - sooooo many all-new ways to express yourself http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 10:56:39 -0700 (PDT) From: Jan Noorda Subject: Re: [idealcopy] for all you old punks Alistair Tear wrote: very silly boots indeed ;-) A http://www.cloggs.co.uk/invt/290 other kind of cloggs, the scherjons. indeed they are worn by very recalcitrant people nowadays. J http://www.klompen-scherjon.nl/ This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept for the presence of computer viruses. ************************************************************************* Yahoo! Mail is new and improved - Check it out! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 19:07:07 +0100 From: Andrew Walkingshaw Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Wire on the Box 1979 On Wed, Jul 14, 2004 at 07:40:02AM -0700, Jan Noorda wrote: > Great news. Indeed. I'm looking forward to it. (I don't think there's much else to say - the press-release is so complete.) - - A - -- Dept of Earth Sciences, Univ. Cambridge ::: http://www.esc.cam.ac.uk/ email: andrew@lexical.org.uk ::: http://www.lexical.org.uk/blog/ Random Walk, 10pm Wednesdays, CUR1350 ::: http://www.cur1350.co.uk/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 14:10:39 EDT From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] The Great Dichotomy of Pop my reply to J. Hobson on his stance that the mid 70's were a musical wasteland: > wow.....do i feel sorry for you....what a shame....LOADS of great music in > > all genres (especially rock, pop, and soul) back then, most of which still > > stands up to this day....you really missed out>>>>>>> J. Hobson: No I didn't. I heard most of it. You are forgetting that the biggest musical genre of this period was....Country. This was the great era of Dolly et al standing by their man.>>>>>> me: REALLY? astounding!!! where did you find the time to listen to ALL that music??? and NO, country was NOT the biggest musical genre...least not around here (and most of the world)...it was radio pop, rock and soul and now i will do my best and reply to J. Hobson's replies: > and this is just for starters and right at surface level...how about: > > Brian Eno Eno blossomed in the Punk era so I'd not leave him in the Bermuda Triangle>>>>> his solo ambient work around 1974-76 is the high point in is discography for me... > Roxy Music 2 good albums then decades of MOR dross>>>>>>> did any "good" punk group make more than two good albums? how many do you need? > David Bowie Hunky Dory is 71 and Station to Station 76. Personally I don't rate inbetween.>>>>>>> laughable.....it is actually the stuff in between that i am referring to.... > Parliament Funkadelic Hardly popular!>>>>>>> what the hell planet did you live on? P-Funk were huge in the mid/late 70's... > Barry White EHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH. The Walrus lives, surely not. Wot about that fat bloke from Greece in that case>>>>>>> hmmm.. i see...being fat somehow interferes with a person being talented? you'd better re-think that one... > Earth Wind & Fire Mowtown's last decent signing but there were in business before the Bermuda Triangle>>>>>> but once again....their best stuff (and most popular) is from the mid seventies...who gives a damn how long they were around before that?... > Black Sabbath Are you serious? Again they are a late 60s/early 70s band>>>>>> and your point? their best albums (by far) were Sabbath Bloody Sabbath (74) and Sabotage (75).....if remember correctly, your original post said that the only band putting out decent records in the mid 70's were Led Zeppelin...weren't they a late 60's band also?? > Genesis Tried listening to any Genesis record lately. Come on Punk was designed to neuter this stuff.>>>>>>> i don't give a flying shit what punk was meant to neuter...OLD Genesis was decent stuff...i could care less about Genesis after Peter Gabriel left (a few decent tunes but that's it) > Yes Thank god for Punk. This lot of navel gazers were what punk consigned to a deep mineshaft. Please keep them there!>>>>>> the Yes Album/Fragile/Close to the Edge were their best.....have you never gazed at your navel? or were you too busy pogo-ing the entire day? > Pink Floyd Again they are a late 60s band.>>>>>> yes, HOWEVER (once again) their best albums (arguably) were Dark Side of the Moon and Wish You Were Here ..both within the period (72-76) that you claimed SUCKED > Gladys Knight & The Pips Well past her prime by 72>>>>>> maybe, maybe not...depending on your point of view... > Bob Marley & The Wailers Really only took off in the punk era if we are talking popular music.>>>> yeah when all the annoying college pot heads latched on....but i believe his best stuff to be in the mid-70's...mostly the work he did with Lee Perry > Lee Perry produced acts such as Junior Murvin, Max Romeo, The Silvertones,the > Heptones > reggae classics produced Channel One Studios > the underwater dub productions of the late great King Tubby > Hardly popular music. Even Peel ignored this music at the time>>>>> which means nothing to me since i am in the USA and never heard of John Peel til i was older....and all of this stuff was easily heard around these parts... >Miles Davis > Herbie Hancock We are talking Pop and you are running out of names>>>>> no....but these guys crossed boundaries......i could go on for hours about all the GREAT pop-only singles from 72-76 ..but it would bore everyone (much like this conversation is) except for maybe Keith A...... > Carlos Santana He never produced a decent album after Abraxas or whatever and that was 1970>>>> i disagree....but whatever....punk is obviosly the be all, end all in your world... > > the list goes on and on..... No it doesn't. In fact most of your pop list expired when a combination of punk/new wave/disco/early rap washed away into the footnotes of musical history.>>>>>>> ebb & flow...much like life....ALL these genres you list are now washed away themselves or mutated beyond recognition....or just plain bad (rap) ......so should they all be forgotten or despised because they are no longer relevant?... remember: Avril Lavigne and Blink 182 are considered "punk" now....food for thought? Oh to be alive when the Pistols/Ramones/wire turned up and to be young was Bliss!>>>>>>>> kind of how i felt when Aphex Twin/Autechre/Pete Namlook/Coil/Nurse With Wound/Hafler Trio/Cabaret Voltaire/Throbbing Gristle etc etc. showed up at different intervals in time......the story never ends... RL np - Fennesz "Venice" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 14:21:28 EDT From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] The Great Dichotomy of Pop one more thing....please keep in mind that what constitutes "pop" varies greatly from country to country..... things like the Pet Shop Boys/Ultravox/Visage/Human League/Depeche Mode/Erasure/Yazoo/ were considered underground/alternative/cutting edge here in the USA.....while they were undoubtedly considered synth-pop crap to a lot of people in the UK.... whereas David Hasselhoff is considered an over the top, rib-cracking JOKE over here...but a bona-fide MEGA-SUPER STAR in Germany... go figure... RL ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 14:54:07 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Wire on the Box 1979 >>Although 15th generation VHS copies of the screened parts of this performance have been doing the bootleg rounds for many years. << A little unfair, considering most bootlegs are from a mid-90s rebroadcast of the gig, and hence are 1st or 2nd gen copies.... What is meant by "the screened parts" of this prformance? Were there more unbroadcast songs? There don't seem to be any breaks in the copy I have, and it includes the encore. Were there more encores? Or does the comment refer to the interview (hardly part of the "performance"!) Mark ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 15:04:22 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] The Great Dichotomy of Pop Blimey, there have been some dimwitted arguments over the years but this one is truly exceptional. To claim that music was shite between 1972 and 1976 is one thing. To disqualify anyone who did make a decent record during this period because they had either (a) made a decent record pre-72 or (b) made a decent record post-76 is something else. My mind is boggled. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 15:10:54 EDT From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] The Great Dichotomy of Pop In a message dated 7/14/04 2:04:22 PM Central Daylight Time, Mark Bursa writes: > Blimey, there have been some dimwitted arguments over the years but this one > is truly exceptional. > > To claim that music was shite between 1972 and 1976 is one thing. To > disqualify anyone who did make a decent record during this period because > they had either (a) made a decent record pre-72 or (b) made a decent record > post-76 is something else. > > My mind is boggled. > > Mark>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> my thoughts exactly....which is exactly why i will let this one go...no use in prolonging such nonsense....he is set in his beliefs ...so be it (sheesh...i've been reading too many Jack Kirby era Thor comic books....hope i don't start saying "verily" and "aye") RL np - Nurse With Wound "Large Ladies With Cake in the Oven" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 20:23:01 +0100 From: Andrew Walkingshaw Subject: Re: [idealcopy] The Great Dichotomy of Pop On Sat, Jul 10, 2004 at 05:44:46PM +0100, j.hobson wrote: > At that time music was far more important a place in youth culyure > than it is now so I consumed too large quantities of it. Really - not just that music fans hang out with other music fans? Certainly my friends show every sign of being avid music consumers... - - Andrew (last he checked still relatively youthful, or at least a student) - -- Earth Sciences, University of Cambridge http://www.esc.cam.ac.uk/ Programme Controller, CUR1350 http://www.cur1350.co.uk/ email: andrew@lexical.org.uk Random Walk ::: Wednesday, 10pm ::: cur1350.co.uk ::: is this music? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 20:31:16 +0100 From: Andrew Walkingshaw Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Wire on the Box 1979 On Wed, Jul 14, 2004 at 02:54:07PM -0400, MarkBursa@aol.com wrote: > What is meant by "the screened parts" of this prformance? Were there > more unbroadcast songs? There don't seem to be any breaks in the > copy I have, and it includes the encore. Were there more encores? Or > does the comment refer to the interview (hardly part of the > "performance"!) I'd heard there's around eighty minutes of material, including the unaired interview - not having seen the bootleg, I have no idea if this implies unaired songs or not! Speaking of which, I've heard interesting rumbles that there may be other unaired material from very early Wire out there and waiting to be released; I'm looking forward to the book rumoured on Wireviews earlier this year, certainly... - - A - -- Earth Sciences, University of Cambridge http://www.esc.cam.ac.uk/ Programme Controller, CUR1350 http://www.cur1350.co.uk/ email: andrew@lexical.org.uk Random Walk ::: Wednesday, 10pm ::: cur1350.co.uk ::: is this music? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 13:22:32 -0700 (PDT) From: Ari Subject: [idealcopy] Wire on the box 1979 Great News Jan,YIPPEEEEEEEEE!!!!! Ari __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail is new and improved - Check it out! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 17:32:17 EDT From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: [idealcopy] mtv2 tonight........... now this may be a red herring or a brilliant opportunity ; on mtv2 tonight at 1.00 to 3.00 is advertised "120 minutes live at tryptych festival". i can only imagine this could well be a wire set (what else is it going to be?). got my tape set up anyway :-) p ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 23:53:56 +0100 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] The Great Dichotomy of Pop > ......i could go on for hours about > all the GREAT pop-only singles from 72-76 ..but it would bore everyone (much > like this conversation is) except for maybe Keith A...... Could I nominate Dolly My Love by the Moments then? Keith np Capt Beefheart - trout mask replica (there's that's surprised you!) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 10:08:21 +0800 From: "Tim ****" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Wire on the Box 1979 Also What about 'Practice Makes Perfect' Scene 78 - German TV?? Tim - ----Original Message Follows---- From: MarkBursa@aol.com To: janjnoorda@yahoo.com, idealcopy@smoe.org Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Wire on the Box 1979 Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 14:54:07 EDT >>Although 15th generation VHS copies of the screened parts of this performance have been doing the bootleg rounds for many years. << A little unfair, considering most bootlegs are from a mid-90s rebroadcast of the gig, and hence are 1st or 2nd gen copies.... What is meant by "the screened parts" of this prformance? Were there more unbroadcast songs? There don't seem to be any breaks in the copy I have, and it includes the encore. Were there more encores? Or does the comment refer to the interview (hardly part of the "performance"!) Mark _________________________________________________________________ Play Love Hunt to win a $9000 holiday and find love! http://mobilecentral.ninemsn.com.au/mclovehunt/lovehunt.aspx ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 10:09:37 +0800 From: "Tim ****" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] mtv2 tonight........... Were Wire on this programme then? Tim - ----Original Message Follows---- From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com To: idealcopy@smoe.org Subject: [idealcopy] mtv2 tonight........... Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 17:32:17 EDT now this may be a red herring or a brilliant opportunity ; on mtv2 tonight at 1.00 to 3.00 is advertised "120 minutes live at tryptych festival". i can only imagine this could well be a wire set (what else is it going to be?). got my tape set up anyway :-) p _________________________________________________________________ Looking to buy a new house? Try http://property.ninemsn.com.au/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 03:45:34 EDT From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Wire on the Box 1979 In a message dated 15/07/2004 03:15:16 GMT Standard Time, oneloveonebagonenil@hotmail.com writes: > Also > > What about 'Practice Makes Perfect' Scene 78 - German TV?? > > Tim ///// i think this is what colin is alluding to when he talks of "mimed performances on belgian tv" or someething like that. i've got a dreadful copy of it , it would be superb to have this in decent quality. i've always wondered if they did "outdoor miner" as well on the same show? suspect it exists somewhere , though doubt it'll get released. p ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 03:49:47 EDT From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] mtv2 tonight........... well , a partial result. the format of the show was a load of interviews interspersed with videos. as far as i could see ( i had to fast forward through it whilst wrestling with kids , the things i do for you guys......) there was no performance footage from tryptych. however , there is a wire interview which must be the first new footage shown on uk tv since maybe the "In vivo" promo. colin does most of the talking but i didn't have time to watch it properly. will tell you the score later. i suppose mute are holding the live footage back for the DVD. typical ;-( p ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V7 #208 *******************************