From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V7 #192 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Wednesday, June 30 2004 Volume 07 : Number 192 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [idealcopy] carbon -> hydrogen economy [MarkBursa@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] carbon -> hydrogen economy [Andrew Walkingshaw hydrogen economy ["Clements, Bruno - BUP" hydrogen economy [Andrew Walkingshaw hydrogen economy) ["Clements, Brun] Re: [idealcopy] Glastonbury (was carbon -> hydrogen economy) [Andrew Walk] Re: [idealcopy] Glastonbury (was carbon -> hydrogen economy) [MarkBursa@a] Re: [idealcopy] carbon -> hydrogen economy [CHRISWIRE@aol.com] [idealcopy] Nachrichten Gmb-H [Jan Noorda ] [idealcopy] Nachrichten Gmb-H [Jan Noorda ] Re: [idealcopy] Nachrichten Gmb-H [MarkBursa@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] carbon -> hydrogen economy ["Keith Astbury" ] [idealcopy] O.T:Gotta say this....... [Ari ] Re: [idealcopy] O.T:Gotta say this....... ["dan bailey" ] Re: [idealcopy] B**ly D**n B*y Was: Glastonbury [Tim hydrogen economy >>Could someone explain to me how hydrogen would have any effect on the use of carbon fuel? From what I understand (not that much), hydrogen is merely a storage medium. It has to be manufactured, most likely using carbon fuels or nuclear power. I think that it's hydrogen versus batteries rather than hydrogen versus carbon, right?<< Hydrogen is part of the process by which a fuel cell vehicle is powered. It can either be taken on as a liquid; or produced on board the vehicle from either petrol or methanol as a fuel, using a hydrogen reformer. The hydrogen then mixes with oxygen in the fuel cell and this creates electricity, with water as the by-product (hence no emissions). Effectively, it's an electric car. It's the complexity of the process with the reformer that is the drawback, versus the safety aspects of using liquid hydrogen. Yes, producing hydrogen does use some fossil fuel - but not nearly as much as a conventional engine. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2004 13:33:02 +0100 From: Andrew Walkingshaw Subject: Re: [idealcopy] carbon -> hydrogen economy On Tue, Jun 29, 2004 at 07:30:05AM -0400, MarkBursa@aol.com wrote: > > Yes, producing hydrogen does use some fossil fuel - but not nearly as much > as a conventional engine. Honestly, I leave you all at the Glastonbury Festival for one week and I come back to fuel-cell technology?! :) - - Andrew (high-points; Elbow, British Sea Power, Hope of the States, Love, Television, Orbital) - -- Dept of Earth Sciences, Univ. Cambridge ::: http://www.esc.cam.ac.uk/ email: andrew@lexical.org.uk ::: http://www.lexical.org.uk/blog/ Random Walk, 10pm Wednesdays, CUR1350 ::: http://www.cur1350.co.uk/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2004 15:06:44 +0100 From: "Clements, Bruno - BUP" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] carbon -> hydrogen economy Were you there? Goldfrapp and Buck 65 were better than BSP... As were the Von Blondies. Bruno - -----Original Message----- From: Andrew Walkingshaw [mailto:andrew-wire@lexical.org.uk] Sent: 29 June 2004 13:33 To: idealcopy@smoe.org Subject: Re: [idealcopy] carbon -> hydrogen economy On Tue, Jun 29, 2004 at 07:30:05AM -0400, MarkBursa@aol.com wrote: > > Yes, producing hydrogen does use some fossil fuel - but not nearly as much > as a conventional engine. Honestly, I leave you all at the Glastonbury Festival for one week and I come back to fuel-cell technology?! :) - - Andrew (high-points; Elbow, British Sea Power, Hope of the States, Love, Television, Orbital) - -- Dept of Earth Sciences, Univ. Cambridge ::: http://www.esc.cam.ac.uk/ email: andrew@lexical.org.uk ::: http://www.lexical.org.uk/blog/ Random Walk, 10pm Wednesdays, CUR1350 ::: http://www.cur1350.co.uk/ ********************************************************************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses. www.mimesweeper.com ********************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2004 15:38:40 +0100 From: Andrew Walkingshaw Subject: Re: [idealcopy] carbon -> hydrogen economy On Tue, Jun 29, 2004 at 03:06:44PM +0100, Clements, Bruno - BUP wrote: > Were you there? > > Goldfrapp and Buck 65 were better than BSP... As were the Von Blondies. Yes. I thoroughly enjoyed BSP. Buck 65 seemed good, but I only saw their last song when going down to see Television. Missed Goldfrapp in favour of Love in the Acoustic Tent, I think, which was a pain of a clash for me. Love were great, though. Franz Ferdinand were a lot of fun; Morrissey was a bit disappointing; I was impressed by I Am Kloot. I hadn't heard of Buck 65 before, actually. I'm slightly ashamed of how much I enjoyed the Divine Comedy's set, too. - - Andrew - -- Dept of Earth Sciences, Univ. Cambridge ::: http://www.esc.cam.ac.uk/ email: andrew@lexical.org.uk ::: http://www.lexical.org.uk/blog/ Random Walk, 10pm Wednesdays, CUR1350 ::: http://www.cur1350.co.uk/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2004 15:43:55 +0100 From: "Clements, Bruno - BUP" Subject: [idealcopy] Glastonbury (was carbon -> hydrogen economy) Sorry, Andrew. I didn't mean to make that sound like 'Were you there???!' but more like, 'Oh, so you were there too? We should have had a cider/beer.' Elbow were head and shoulders above everyone, really. I even bought the T-shirt... Just a shame they clashed with Badly Drawn Boy. The girlfriend hated Television, sadly, though they were a real highlight for me too. Then we got rained on as we headed back to our van (Supergrass were on stage) for a prompt getaway (she hates Morrissey too) but it was a lovely drive back to Wiltshire in the evening sunshine. After fears of a mammoth queue to leave the site it was just fantastic to be home just over two hours after Television had finished. - -----Original Message----- From: Clements, Bruno - BUP Sent: 29 June 2004 15:07 To: 'idealcopy@smoe.org' Subject: RE: [idealcopy] carbon -> hydrogen economy Were you there? Goldfrapp and Buck 65 were better than BSP... As were the Von Blondies. Bruno ********************************************************************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses. www.mimesweeper.com ********************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2004 16:03:47 +0100 From: Andrew Walkingshaw Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Glastonbury (was carbon -> hydrogen economy) On Tue, Jun 29, 2004 at 03:43:55PM +0100, Clements, Bruno - BUP wrote: > Sorry, Andrew. I didn't mean to make that sound like 'Were you there???!' > but more like, 'Oh, so you were there too? We should have had a cider/beer.' Yeah, or in my case an organic apple juice or something (only three percent dead rat by volume); I don't drink :) There were loads of people I entirely failed to meet up with. > Elbow were head and shoulders above everyone, really. I even bought the > T-shirt... Just a shame they clashed with Badly Drawn Boy. > PJ Harvey/Franz/Electrelane was a nightmare for me (I was in the pit for Franz Ferdinand, which wasn't exactly intellectual but was a hell of a lot of fun). > The girlfriend hated Television, sadly, though they were a real highlight > for me too. Then we got rained on as we headed back to our van (Supergrass > were on stage) for a prompt getaway (she hates Morrissey too) but it was a > lovely drive back to Wiltshire in the evening sunshine. After fears of a > mammoth queue to leave the site it was just fantastic to be home just over > two hours after Television had finished. Orbital were fabulous. - - A - -- Earth Sciences, University of Cambridge http://www.esc.cam.ac.uk/ Programme Controller, CUR1350 http://www.cur1350.co.uk/ email: andrew@lexical.org.uk Random Walk ::: Wednesday, 10pm ::: cur1350.co.uk ::: is this music? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2004 12:20:51 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Glastonbury (was carbon -> hydrogen economy) Elbow were head and shoulders above everyone, really. I even bought the T-shirt... Just a shame they clashed with Badly Drawn Boy. Seriously, do you like BDB? Seems a completely talent-free chancer to me. And he looks like a young Dave Lee Travis. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2004 15:53:33 EDT From: CHRISWIRE@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] carbon -> hydrogen economy In a message dated 29/06/2004 15:23:59 GMT Daylight Time, B.Clements@bepp.co.uk writes: Andrew (high-points; Elbow, British Sea Power, Hope of the States, Love, Television, Orbital) Saw Orbital's last indoor show at the Brixton Academy on Friday.Brilliant. Chris NP.Event Horizon -Soundtrack ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2004 13:11:04 -0700 (PDT) From: Jan Noorda Subject: [idealcopy] Nachrichten Gmb-H EIN SOUNDRACK FUER DEN UNTERGANG Pop im Park, Soul auf die Strasse, Blasmusik vom Buergersteig: Die "Fete de la Musiique" ist weit weg, als im Podewil ein eMusik aufgefuehrt wird, die ausgehalten werden will, die penetrant und laut ist - ein Spiegel industriel gefertigten Alltags. Gmb-H (Kaoss v Kaoss) nennt sich das Trio, hinter dem sich mit Bruce Gilbert ind Graham Lewis die eine Haelfte der britischen Punk-Legende Wire verbirgt, die sich hier mit dem schwedischen Klangtueftler Carl Michael von Hausswolff zusammengetan haben, um in alter Maennerfreundschaft an einem schwer verdaulichen Endzeit-Panorama zu basteln. Passend dazu flimmern bei ihrer Deutschlandpremiere die Bilder einer zerfallenen Inselstadt ueber die Leinwand, waehrend die Musiker diese Trostlosigkeit in ein elektroakustisches Schleifknirschgegraule umsetzen, das am Industrial-Sound der Achtzigerjahre festhaelt: abgerissene Stimmfetzen, Bassgrummeln, Gitarrenfeedback, muehsames Keuchen wie aus einer Herz-Lungen-Maschine, metallisches Haemmern aus der Echokammer, ergaenzt durch digitale Klicks und analoges Rauschen, dem zermuerbenden Stampfen und Wummern einer bedrohlichen Maschinenwelt. Rhythmische Rotationsbewegungen geben der Musik einen urtuemlichen Gebetsmuehlencharakter. Bis es aufhoert, nur Geraeusch zu sein, und im Koerper wie ein Entzuendungsherd anschwillt: Doomsday ist nah und nicht immer leicht zu ertragen. Volker Lueke 24.06.04 Der Tagesspiegel DIE SPRING INNOVATIONS IM PODEWIL .... Und hinter den sieben digital aufgetuermten Bergen gibt es auch das Koenigreich Elgaland-Vargaland (www.krev.org), das von Carl Michael von Hausswolff regiert wird und angeseherte Buerger in seinen Reihen weiss wie Graham Lewis und Bruce Gilbert, die beiden Soundforscher, die man nicht nur von dem legendaren Kunstpunk-Outfitt Wire kennen sollte, sondern von den vielen weiteren Projekten wie Dome, He Said oder Duet Emmo - bei der Deutschlandpremiere von gmb-H (Kaoss v Kaoss) reflektieren Hausswolff, Gilbert und Lewis zum Abschluss der Springinnovations im Podewil diese Arbeit der vergangene 20 Jahre. Die Tageszeitung Ausgabe Berlin 22.06.04 Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2004 13:11:23 -0700 (PDT) From: Jan Noorda Subject: [idealcopy] Nachrichten Gmb-H EIN SOUNDTRACK FUER DEN UNTERGANG Pop im Park, Soul auf die Strasse, Blasmusik vom Buergersteig: Die "Fete de la Musiique" ist weit weg, als im Podewil ein eMusik aufgefuehrt wird, die ausgehalten werden will, die penetrant und laut ist - ein Spiegel industriel gefertigten Alltags. Gmb-H (Kaoss v Kaoss) nennt sich das Trio, hinter dem sich mit Bruce Gilbert ind Graham Lewis die eine Haelfte der britischen Punk-Legende Wire verbirgt, die sich hier mit dem schwedischen Klangtueftler Carl Michael von Hausswolff zusammengetan haben, um in alter Maennerfreundschaft an einem schwer verdaulichen Endzeit-Panorama zu basteln. Passend dazu flimmern bei ihrer Deutschlandpremiere die Bilder einer zerfallenen Inselstadt ueber die Leinwand, waehrend die Musiker diese Trostlosigkeit in ein elektroakustisches Schleifknirschgegraule umsetzen, das am Industrial-Sound der Achtzigerjahre festhaelt: abgerissene Stimmfetzen, Bassgrummeln, Gitarrenfeedback, muehsames Keuchen wie aus einer Herz-Lungen-Maschine, metallisches Haemmern aus der Echokammer, ergaenzt durch digitale Klicks und analoges Rauschen, dem zermuerbenden Stampfen und Wummern einer bedrohlichen Maschinenwelt. Rhythmische Rotationsbewegungen geben der Musik einen urtuemlichen Gebetsmuehlencharakter. Bis es aufhoert, nur Geraeusch zu sein, und im Koerper wie ein Entzuendungsherd anschwillt: Doomsday ist nah und nicht immer leicht zu ertragen. Volker Lueke 24.06.04 Der Tagesspiegel DIE SPRING INNOVATIONS IM PODEWIL .... Und hinter den sieben digital aufgetuermten Bergen gibt es auch das Koenigreich Elgaland-Vargaland (www.krev.org), das von Carl Michael von Hausswolff regiert wird und angeseherte Buerger in seinen Reihen weiss wie Graham Lewis und Bruce Gilbert, die beiden Soundforscher, die man nicht nur von dem legendaren Kunstpunk-Outfitt Wire kennen sollte, sondern von den vielen weiteren Projekten wie Dome, He Said oder Duet Emmo - bei der Deutschlandpremiere von gmb-H (Kaoss v Kaoss) reflektieren Hausswolff, Gilbert und Lewis zum Abschluss der Springinnovations im Podewil diese Arbeit der vergangene 20 Jahre. Die Tageszeitung Ausgabe Berlin 22.06.04 New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2004 17:16:50 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Nachrichten Gmb-H (Very) rough translation... Basically he's saying its desolate electronic noise (surprise!) reminiscent of 80s Industrial music (I guess something like early Krupps or Neubauten) Disembodied voices, rumbling bass, guitar feedback, over various rhythms including something that sounds like an artificial respirator, and metal hammering through an echo chamber. Rhythmic & mantra-like (I guess think Ocsid) swelling into noise (hi Bruce) accompanied by visuals of derelict cityscapes. "Doomsday is near, and not always easy to bear" is the payoff. Mark >>Pop im Park, Soul auf die Strasse, Blasmusik vom Buergersteig: Die "Fete de la Musiique" ist weit weg, als im Podewil ein eMusik aufgefuehrt wird, die ausgehalten werden will, die penetrant und laut ist - ein Spiegel industriel gefertigten Alltags. Gmb-H (Kaoss v Kaoss) nennt sich das Trio, hinter dem sich mit Bruce Gilbert ind Graham Lewis die eine Haelfte der britischen Punk-Legende Wire verbirgt, die sich hier mit dem schwedischen Klangtueftler Carl Michael von Hausswolff zusammengetan haben, um in alter Maennerfreundschaft an einem schwer verdaulichen Endzeit-Panorama zu basteln. Passend dazu flimmern bei ihrer Deutschlandpremiere die Bilder einer zerfallenen Inselstadt ueber die Leinwand, waehrend die Musiker diese Trostlosigkeit in ein elektroakustisches Schleifknirschgegraule umsetzen, das am Industrial-Sound der Achtzigerjahre festhaelt: abgerissene Stimmfetzen, Bassgrummeln, Gitarrenfeedback, muehsames Keuchen wie aus einer Herz-Lungen-Maschine, metallisches Haemmern aus der Echokammer, ergaenzt durch digitale Klicks und analoges Rauschen, dem zermuerbenden Stampfen und Wummern einer bedrohlichen Maschinenwelt. Rhythmische Rotationsbewegungen geben der Musik einen urtuemlichen Gebetsmuehlencharakter. Bis es aufhoert, nur Geraeusch zu sein, und im Koerper wie ein Entzuendungsherd anschwillt: Doomsday ist nah und nicht immer leicht zu ertragen.<< ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2004 22:20:36 +0100 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] carbon -> hydrogen economy > I'm slightly ashamed of how much I enjoyed the Divine Comedy's set, too. There's one superb track (Our Mutual Friend) on the last LP - if you like that sort thing, of course! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2004 15:16:15 -0700 (PDT) From: Ari Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Nachrichten Gmb-H ..........Now where's that darn translator when you need him............... - --- Jan Noorda wrote: > EIN SOUNDTRACK FUER DEN UNTERGANG > > Pop im Park, Soul auf die Strasse, Blasmusik vom > Buergersteig: Die "Fete de la Musiique" ist weit > weg, als im Podewil ein eMusik aufgefuehrt wird, die > ausgehalten werden will, die penetrant und laut ist > - ein Spiegel industriel gefertigten Alltags. Gmb-H > (Kaoss v Kaoss) nennt sich das Trio, hinter dem sich > mit Bruce Gilbert ind Graham Lewis die eine Haelfte > der britischen Punk-Legende Wire verbirgt, die sich > hier mit dem schwedischen Klangtueftler Carl Michael > von Hausswolff zusammengetan haben, um in alter > Maennerfreundschaft an einem schwer verdaulichen > Endzeit-Panorama zu basteln. > Passend dazu flimmern bei ihrer Deutschlandpremiere > die Bilder einer zerfallenen Inselstadt ueber die > Leinwand, waehrend die Musiker diese Trostlosigkeit > in ein elektroakustisches Schleifknirschgegraule > umsetzen, das am Industrial-Sound der Achtzigerjahre > festhaelt: abgerissene Stimmfetzen, Bassgrummeln, > Gitarrenfeedback, muehsames Keuchen wie aus einer > Herz-Lungen-Maschine, metallisches Haemmern aus der > Echokammer, ergaenzt durch digitale Klicks und > analoges Rauschen, dem zermuerbenden Stampfen und > Wummern einer bedrohlichen Maschinenwelt. > Rhythmische Rotationsbewegungen geben der Musik > einen urtuemlichen Gebetsmuehlencharakter. Bis es > aufhoert, nur Geraeusch zu sein, und im Koerper wie > ein Entzuendungsherd anschwillt: Doomsday ist nah > und nicht immer leicht zu ertragen. > > Volker Lueke > 24.06.04 > Der Tagesspiegel > > DIE SPRING INNOVATIONS IM PODEWIL .... > > Und hinter den sieben digital aufgetuermten Bergen > gibt es auch das Koenigreich Elgaland-Vargaland > (www.krev.org), das von Carl Michael von Hausswolff > regiert wird und angeseherte Buerger in seinen > Reihen weiss wie Graham Lewis und Bruce Gilbert, die > beiden Soundforscher, die man nicht nur von dem > legendaren Kunstpunk-Outfitt Wire kennen sollte, > sondern von den vielen weiteren Projekten wie Dome, > He Said oder Duet Emmo - bei der Deutschlandpremiere > von gmb-H (Kaoss v Kaoss) reflektieren Hausswolff, > Gilbert und Lewis zum Abschluss der > Springinnovations im Podewil diese Arbeit der > vergangene 20 Jahre. > > Die Tageszeitung > Ausgabe Berlin > 22.06.04 > New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages! > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2004 15:49:16 -0700 (PDT) From: Ari Subject: [idealcopy] O.T:Gotta say this....... ..........the new Cure is f&^32ing Great! (carry on) Ari __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2004 19:45:13 -0500 From: "dan bailey" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] O.T:Gotta say this....... i've got the vinyl version -- 3-5 tracks that the u.s. cd (which itself has one less than the uk cd ... what the hell's up with that?) doesn't have --on order with tower even as i type. dan > ..........the new Cure is f&^32ing Great! (carry on) Ari > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages! > http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2004 17:56:12 -0700 (PDT) From: Ari Subject: [idealcopy] (very) O.T........... http://www.irobotmovie.com/index.html?autopop=adobe# enjoy.Ari __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail is new and improved - Check it out! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2004 01:32:55 +0100 From: Tim Subject: Re: [idealcopy] B**ly D**n B*y Was: Glastonbury MarkBursa@aol.com wrote after B.Clements Wrote: . Just a shame they clashed with Badly Drawn Boy. > > Mark then says: > Seriously, do you like BDB? Seems a completely talent-free chancer to me. > And he looks like a young Dave Lee Travis. > Thats an insult to DLT baby! I hate that laboured, "Anti-Image" look he sports...ironically trying to look like a Big Issue seller even though he actually lives in a very nice house in a boho suburb of Manchester and is worth close to #1m if not more. Yes He looks like a young Dave Lee Travis, if Dave Lee Travis had lost his Radio job in 1975 and been living on a park bench drinking cider ever since. Also his music is meandering, pointless hippy shite and he worships Bruce Springsteen. And he wears Sunglasses indoors. He wears that stupid hat even when off duty...just in case anyone doesn't recognise him. And he makes a point of overstaying his welcome with endless encores at gigs after the house lights have gone up...unforgiveable. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2004 16:09:05 -0700 From: fernando Subject: Re: [idealcopy] O.T:Gotta say this....... I left the Cure with 1985... with the exception of some tracks from Disintegration, and Kiss Me. (I did enjoy Entreat)... but it is good to read this, as I just sampled the tracks (on iTunes) this morning, and it sounded very promising! Still, what I heard is not going to get me as excited as some other records this year ;) But, I do have a soft spot for when old bands do put out a good record -- though wondering if anyone can out do Wire (New Order came close with "Behind Close Doors," but that is not an album's worth). On Tue, 29 Jun 2004 15:49:16 -0700 (PDT), Ari wrote: > > ..........the new Cure is f&^32ing Great! (carry on) Ari > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? I used to, but I dont Yahoo anymore... or not as much ;) cheers! - -fernando > http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2004 02:53:40 EDT From: CHRISWIRE@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] O.T:Gotta say this....... In a message dated 30/06/2004 06:01:04 GMT Daylight Time, wordstains@gmail.com writes: Still, what I heard is not going to get me as excited as some other records this year ;) But, I do have a soft spot for when old bands do put out a good record -- though wondering if anyone can out do Wire (New Order came close with "Behind Close Doors," but that is not an album's worth). Not heard the Cure record yet.But agree that when a band puts out a good un it retores your faith.I'll cite the Killing Joke album as my example & Seeing Red is a great single IMHO. Chris NP The Beloved X ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V7 #192 *******************************