From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V7 #179 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Thursday, June 17 2004 Volume 07 : Number 179 Today's Subjects: ----------------- RE: [idealcopy] Ordier - Bruce Gilbert / Norman Records [Adrian Cooke ] [idealcopy] Tim asked... [Ari ] RE: [idealcopy] Another great one gone [Alistair Tear Fra & inexplicably silly management decisions..... [Derek White Fra & inexplicably silly management decisions.... [MarkBurs] RE: [idealcopy] Another great one gone [Derek White ] RE: [idealcopy] Another great one gone [Alistair Tear Fra ["Keith Astbury" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] Ordier - Bruce Gilbert / Norman Records I too can vouch for Norman Records integrity! First came across them when I used to work in Jumbo Records and Phil used to come in and buy all our 99p Indie 7"s then sell them on his website at twice the price! From those humble beginnings he now has probably one of the best mail order shops around. Adrian Hamish Norman Records is in Leeds - where I'm based though never used it. However, former list member Graeme could not speak too highly of them. They've been around a while - I think you can trust them. Ian ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 02:34:25 -0700 (PDT) From: Fergus Kelly Subject: [idealcopy] Bloomin' 'ell Though not a Joyce fan, I decided to respond to the Bloomsday centenary this morning by playing 'Blume' by Einsturzende Neubauten, from their excellent 1993 album 'Tabula Rasa'. So there. More of a Beckett man meself. Fergus __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 02:55:00 -0700 (PDT) From: Ari Subject: [idealcopy] Tim asked... >>Am I The Only Fly in The..Fly in The..Ointment?<< No you're not Tim,however an 'innocent' remark has been 'blown out of proportion' imo,one must ask should tall people only 'make remarks' (read jokes) about tall people? let's go further,should tall white people only make remarks about tall white people and should tall white people with ginger hair only make 'remarks' about tall white people with ginger hair?? you get the drift don't you? where would we be if we couldn't 'make jokes' about 'others',there'd be no comedy chanel for sure,and what about John Stewart?he ain't no politician now is he,should we invite GW to have his own show to tell the myriad of jokes out there about him and his white house,should a 'night at the Appolo' always include a black guy and gal,a white guy and gal,a tall white guy and gal.............and what about people with 2 dicks?where would we find one of those?and where on earth,just to equal it out,would we find a woman with two dicks?and where would we find..............you get the drift surely? Amused Ari Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete - You start. We finish. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 12:09:34 +0100 From: Alistair Tear Subject: RE: [idealcopy] Another great one gone Nope, that would be Hoagy Carmichael // and wrote 'Georgia on my Mind'. A ************************************************************************* The contents of the e-mail and any transmitted files are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. Transport for London Street Management hereby excludes any warranty and any liability as to the quality or accuracy of the contents of this e-mail and any attached transmitted files. If you are not the intended recipient, be advised that you have received this e-mail in error and that any use, dissemination, forwarding, printing or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please notify postmaster@Streetmanagement.org.uk. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept for the presence of computer viruses. ************************************************************************* ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 07:21:54 EDT From: Tisbili@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] IdealCopy = Sexist Euro2004 Chat! In a message dated 6/15/2004 9:16:12 PM Eastern Standard Time, tim@kidsindestructible.com writes: > I tell you what as well everyone, I'm so glad this list exists as where > else would I be able to find comment about Euro2004? Here in the UK, No > one seems to be talking about it in the newspapers, TV or Radio so > really, this list is the only place I can access information about that. > So folks, I owe it to you to keep me informed about this underground, > obscure sport! More Football chat on this list please! Keep it coming! > Still beats being in the US, where we are in week 2 of Reagan's ascent into heaven [soon to be renamed Reaganland] and ultimate deification. IN my world, where I set the rules, people are different and there's a difference between an offhand comment or making a joke and being a sexist or any other kind of "ist." Chris Rock and Bernie Mac make lots of jokes at the expense of black people. Are they racists? I went to see Sleater-Kinney the other night. They write songs about being a girl or being a gay girl. Are they sexists because they exclude the white middle aged male heterosexual from their setlist? Someone writes a comment to a music mailing list about preferring to "suck Jonathan King's cock" than to see a band. Is he a homophobe? I don't think so, but that's just me. But then again, I don't enforce a personal standard for labelling someone else. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 22:31:16 +1000 From: "anastasia" Subject: [idealcopy] Regarding Female List members This topic was brought to my attention. Ok let me shed some light here. I like to think I am different to other women, yes indeed I am female, and I do like all those feminine things... I like to think I know how to use a computer. I run and own many music mail-lists. Tim I do like kittens and chocolate. I would be able to look after a man real good, make him feel like a king, cook and clean iron his shirts and trousers. I can't say I like knitting though. I certainly don't want a huge argument here because I don't have time for it. However I own and am able to use my chainsaw, I edge my lawns better then a bloke. I put men to shame as they can see what a great job I have done but I really don't have to justify myself to you or anyone really, just don't have a closed mind on women. I am serious I maintain my lawns and gardens better then any man. Tim I wonder what you are good at? Sorry you feel that you have to put women down. I have to say political correctness has gone crazy in today's world. I believe you can overcome it by treating people with respect. Anyway it does seem like a boys club here and that is fair enough, I certainly don't want to be cramping your style. I subscribed my work and private email address to this list, but too much email made me change to the digest format; I still don't have time to read the mail, I wish I did. As I am new to the music of WIRE I can't seem to relate to some of the conversation, as I don't know many of the people here, there is a bit of off topic, again that is fair enough as I would be notorious for it anyway. I have yet to hear all the WIRE music due to lack of time. The reason why I don't write to this list is because I don't have time to read all the email no other reason. At this stage I only have time for the Comsat Angels and the man that I love. 'sigh' He's a WIRE fan too. He saw them at the Dome in London in the early 80's along with Chris and Cosy and a female performance artist who was draped with lobsters whilst lying naked on her back on a dining table. Gilbert and Lewis were definitely in the band then. Does anyone remember that? On closing I have to say the mail-list is a good one as there is freedom of speech but I can see why women would feel like an outsider here. The music is not something many females would like that is the same with the Comsat Angels mail-list. I am not sure what you can do to increase the female numbers. Some women just don't have time for all this as I believe they would consider it a 'boys' thing. My sister likes music but she just doesn't have time for mail-lists, she has a family; I on the other hand do not. I believe those who are into WIRE are old and thus they have other important things to do I suppose. Do we know how many female members there are? The females I meet at the gig looked really poor and I don't believe even owned a computer. Thanks to Ari for passing this on to me, I hope you are well. Goodnight, anastasia As for why there ain't more female list members, I don't know why that is so? I have no current info to suggest that more or less women are computer-owning & compu-literate:- I suspect they outnumber their male counterparts- therefore, why they aren't here is something I don't know. I don't *see* any out-of-order stuff on here, guaranteed to offend, nor do I think we get all 'boysie' at the drop of a hat, so, as I said, I dunno *why* they aren't here. I do know It ain't for the lack of a welcome mat:- IIRC I was one of several people here who posted messages of 'Welcome' to two of the more recent female list-joiners........... One GUESS is that IMHO, (and at the risk of inviting another tirade) women are more literal in that they probably expect a Wire list to be somewhat more focussed on-topic, and drift away when the s/n ratio drops to a certain level, but that is *just* a guess. I'm as guilty as anyone, but hey, I like discussing all manner of stuff with lively, varied & interesting people. To paraphrase the 'Welcome to Idealcopy' message that someone (probably Miles) wrote, that I received upon first subscribing, ' It'd get a tad tedious if all we ever talked about was Newman / Lewis/ Gilbert/ Grey', but perhaps we *do* wander overmuch, and the female people I know usually like things to 'mean what they say', and be 'as advertised'....... I know, why doesn't someone ask one of the missing women ex-listees via e-mail? :-) What do y'all think? [ Now, I s'pose I should clear space in my inbox for the 'incoming' proclaiming me *the* biggest sexist pig known to mankind...... ;-) ] ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 13:38:13 +0100 From: "Clements, Bruno - BUP" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] Regarding Female List members Cripes - I'm glad to report many young people, including females, at the Wire gigs in Edinburgh and Glasgow. I'll forward the pix if they are any good once I have developed (and put on CD for emailing). All the best PS I always thought women were naturally better gardeners than men anyway. I always dig up the wrong plants! ********************************************************************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses. www.mimesweeper.com ********************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 05:50:28 -0700 (PDT) From: Derek White Subject: Re: [idealcopy] [OT] Eng <=> Fra & inexplicably silly management decisions..... You've copped that from the following exchange on BBC, haven't you? Roughly transcribed....... DURING HALF-TIME ANALYSYS: Lineker: "What did you make of that half then, Alan?" Hansen:- " Well, Ballack's.............[tails off as train of thought gets derailed] Strachan:-(A quick-on-the-quip Scot) "Yeah, that about sums it up for me, too......." Rumbled....? ;-) MarkBursa@aol.com wrote: Thank heavens for Ruud! Next game we oughta start immediately with Hooijdonk & Nistelrooy! Overall Holland were shite tonight! Ballack man of the match! I'd ballack the lot of them after that effort ;-) Mark Yahoo! Mail is new and improved - Check it out! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 08:56:22 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] [OT] Eng <=> Fra & inexplicably silly management decisions.... >>You've copped that from the following exchange on BBC, haven't you? Roughly transcribed....... DURING HALF-TIME ANALYSYS: Lineker: "What did you make of that half then, Alan?" Hansen:- " Well, Ballack's.............[tails off as train of thought gets derailed] Strachan:-(A quick-on-the-quip Scot) "Yeah, that about sums it up for me, too......." Rumbled....? ;-)<< No siree. Only watched bits of the game and spent half time in the kitchen.... And how could I not have nodded Bart's cross into the open goal?! Nice one from Strach though. Always reliable ;-) Reminds me of one from a few years ago when Motson launched into a tirade against the Germans before resuming his commentary. Went something like this. "And the Germans have been diabolical today. Kuntz." Mark ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 06:02:58 -0700 (PDT) From: Derek White Subject: RE: [idealcopy] Another great one gone Re Ray Charles' s demise, for whom someone claimed.... // and wrote 'Georgia on my Mind'. A Alistair Tear wrote: Nope, that would be Hoagy Carmichael //// I *did* wonder, but not being 'au fait' with Mr Charles' works, I kept my mouth shut. I 'd like to know *when* it was wrote, though:- I've got a feeling it was in the mid-40's, but not sure. Carmichael was about in the 30's & 40's, right? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 14:39:36 +0100 From: Alistair Tear Subject: RE: [idealcopy] Another great one gone According to AMG, Hoagy was 'active' from the 20's to the 60's IIRC 'Georgia' is an interesting tale in that HC wrote the tune and it lay about in a drawer for a couple of years until he hooked up with Stuart Gorrell who provided the lyrics... State song of Georgia, naturally...;-) One interesting thing about Ray Charles was his interest in Country music...albeit it sounds a bit MOR these days... His comment was along the lines of 'growing up poor in the South, if you were black you listened to the Blues if you were white, you listened to Country...' FWIW I am on the side of those who think he had a very good voice later A my sympathies to all the England supporters - & I mean that most sincerely...honest...really ;-) > > > Re Ray Charles' s demise, for whom someone claimed.... > > // and wrote 'Georgia on my Mind'. > A > > Alistair Tear wrote: Nope, > that would be Hoagy Carmichael > > //// I *did* wonder, but not being 'au fait' with Mr Charles' > works, I kept my mouth shut. I 'd like to know *when* it was > wrote, though:- I've got a feeling it was in the mid-40's, > but not sure. Carmichael was about in the 30's & 40's, right? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > ************************************************************************* The contents of the e-mail and any transmitted files are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. Transport for London Street Management hereby excludes any warranty and any liability as to the quality or accuracy of the contents of this e-mail and any attached transmitted files. If you are not the intended recipient, be advised that you have received this e-mail in error and that any use, dissemination, forwarding, printing or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please notify postmaster@Streetmanagement.org.uk. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept for the presence of computer viruses. ************************************************************************* ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 15:39:07 +0100 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Regarding Female List members > I believe those who are into WIRE are old Well that cheered me up no end ; ) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 15:41:20 +0100 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] O.T Ray Charles Dead..... > .................Just announced:been a fan since '58/'59.saw him once about 6 years ago at the Saratoga (N.Y) jazz Festival,he sucked.....................but HE put it down to the 'sound engineers' and walked off stage after the third number.................he was the last act of a three-day open-air festival,so I wasn't too phased......may he sing forever.Ari Or the fourth number at least. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 16:14:29 +0100 From: Andrew Walkingshaw Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Regarding Female List members On Wed, Jun 16, 2004 at 03:39:07PM +0100, Keith Astbury wrote: > > I believe those who are into WIRE are old > > Well that cheered me up no end ; ) What about me? - - A (child of the eighties) - -- Dept of Earth Sciences, Univ. Cambridge ::: http://www.esc.cam.ac.uk/ email: andrew@lexical.org.uk ::: http://www.lexical.org.uk/blog/ Random Walk, 10pm Wednesdays, CUR1350 ::: http://www.cur1350.co.uk/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 08:41:12 -0700 From: "Matt Hursh" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Regarding Female List members If anything, it shows that shaky presumptions on this list (and beyond) stretch beyond the topic of gender. Whatever. >>> Andrew Walkingshaw 6/16/2004 10:14:29 AM >>> On Wed, Jun 16, 2004 at 03:39:07PM +0100, Keith Astbury wrote: > > I believe those who are into WIRE are old > > Well that cheered me up no end ; ) What about me? - - A (child of the eighties) - -- Dept of Earth Sciences, Univ. Cambridge ::: http://www.esc.cam.ac.uk/ email: andrew@lexical.org.uk ::: http://www.lexical.org.uk/blog/ Random Walk, 10pm Wednesdays, CUR1350 ::: http://www.cur1350.co.uk/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 16:54:11 +0100 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] [OT] Eng <=> Fra > England was leading 1-0 against France and seemed to have the game > in their pocket. However, France scored 2 goals within the 2 final > minutes in extra time! Now I wasn't sure who I was gonna support here. Because... a) I'm Welsh and I've never really forgiven Eng & Scotland for selling Wales & Ireland down the river for scrapping the hugely enjoyable end of season Home Internationals. b) Pires, Henri & Vierra are 3 of my fave players, whilst there's not exactly many Eng players I like. c) I *hate* the anti-French attitude of this country. It seems to have become some sort of 'acceptable racism'. "We can't slag off black people, cos that's racism so we'll pick on the French instead". I despise it. However, I decided to support the boys in white, but the thing that pissed me off was the commentators gloating. "What big eyes you have" and all that shit. The British are very good at losing - I think we do self-depracation pretty well - but give us a bit of success (and I've seen this in cricket when I do support Eng as a matter of course) and 'we' become right cocky bastards. No wonder the world hates us. Come on Switzerland ; ) Keith np 23 skiddoo - s/t ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 17:07:48 +0100 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Sparks (was Rockpalast) >Another standing ovation at the end, Ron looking like the most >embarrassed man on the planet. It's clear from this evening that I've >..mistakenly denied myself Sparks for much of the past 30 years. This >will change. Another the Keith Thanks for that, Keith. I'm so jealous - would love to have gone! I remember playing Kimono & Propaganda some years back and being impressed with how good they still sounded. And I don't just mean the hits. I'd lost all interest with them in the 80's, and on the basis of the tracks on the el cheapo This Album's Big Enough comp, I'm not sure I missed all that much as they've dated more than the 70's stuff. But I read good stuff about 2000's Balls cd and made the plunge, and didn't regret it at all. It really is a fab pop album. As for Lil Beethoven, at the risk of repeating myself, go for it! Sister Ray are doing the 'deluxe' version at a reasonable price. Keith np The Pixies - doolittle ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 14:22:28 -0700 (PDT) From: Ari Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Regarding Female List members Keith Astbury wrote: > I believe those who are into WIRE are old Well that cheered me up no end ; ) didn't bother me one bit,i AM old.........Ari Yahoo! Mail is new and improved - Check it out! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 01:49:20 +0100 From: Tim Subject: Re: [idealcopy] IdealCopy = Sexist Euro2004 Chat! Eardrumbuz@aol.com wrote: > what's wrong with being sexy? > > -paul (my amp goes to 11) c.d. > "...She should be made to Smell the Glove...but not..over and over again" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 02:16:26 +0100 From: Tim Subject: Re: [idealcopy] IdealCopy = Sexist Euro2004 Chat! Tisbili@aol.com wrote: > > > Someone writes a comment to a music mailing list about preferring to "suck > Jonathan King's cock" than to see a band. Is he a homophobe? No. Just a JonathanKing-o-phobe. There is a difference. And on what basis do you assume I am Straight? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 02:02:15 +0100 From: Tim Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Regarding Female List members anastasia wrote: > Tim I do like kittens and chocolate. I would be able to look after a man > real good, make him feel like a king, cook and clean iron his shirts and > trousers. I can't say I like knitting though. I certainly don't want a > huge argument here because I don't have time for it. > > However I own and am able to use my chainsaw, I edge my lawns better > then a bloke. I put men to shame as they can see what a great job I have > done but I really don't have to justify myself to you or anyone really, > just don't have a closed mind on women. I am serious I maintain my lawns > and gardens better then any man. > > Tim I wonder what you are good at? Sorry you feel that you have to put > women down. I don't, you have misunderstood me there. Please read the post I sent before that one. I originated the original complaint about someone using 'Girl' as a term of abuse in a football chat. It stuck in my craw, but no-one else on this list cares. My second post, in response, the stuff about Kittens and Knitting was meant to be Ironic and Sarcastic, which doesn't always translate too well via e-mail. I was actually satirising the posts of previous members , and the general acceptance of sexist bullshit in a Football Context. > I have to say political correctness has gone crazy in today's world. I > believe you can overcome it by treating people with respect. > > Anyway it does seem like a boys club here and that is fair enough, I > certainly don't want to be cramping your style. What style? There is no style here. Even less during a major Football event. Please break up the Boys Club! It is getting too boring!! Cramp their 'Style' for what its worth... ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V7 #179 *******************************