From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V7 #174 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Saturday, June 12 2004 Volume 07 : Number 174 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [idealcopy] Rockpalast/ Wire TV & So it goes.... [MarkBursa@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] Another great one gone [=?iso-8859-1?q?Monochromatic=20Ma] Re: [idealcopy] Rockpalast/ Wire TV & So it goes.... [Derek White ] Re: [idealcopy] Rockpalast/ Wire TV & So it goes.... [MarkBursa@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] Another great one gone [MarkBursa@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] Rockpalast/ Wire TV & So it goes.... [Ari >>could've been beta. beta was actually around for a few years before vhs > hit. > my friend's dad had a betamax with a camera in 1975. << Not in the UK it couldn't. Betamax VCRs weren't sold here till 1978. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 14:28:54 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Monochromatic=20Man?= Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Another great one gone Government workers should have gotten the day off for this instead. --- Santa Cruzer wrote: > Just read that Ray Charles passed away today at age > 73. > > Can't think of anything else to say but "Goodbye Mr. > Charles and thank you for the decades of great > music". > > RJH ___________________________________________________________ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - sooooo many all-new ways to express yourself http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 09:59:35 -0700 (PDT) From: Derek White Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Rockpalast/ Wire TV & So it goes.... MarkBursa@aol.com wrote: > >>could've been beta. beta was actually around for a few years before vhs hit. ///REALLY?? My understanding of the thing is that despite Betamax being by some distance the better of the two systems, with far greater playback stability, at least as far as colour-registration and 'trick modes' such as freeze-frame goes, the reason VHS won out in the format wars was that it got there *first* with the VCR for domestic use? Have I been accepting of bs all these years? > my friend's dad had a betamax with a camera in 1975. << >>Not in the UK it couldn't. Betamax VCRs weren't sold here till 1978. Mark So when did the first *domestic* VHS machine get a UK release, then? (Ferguson Videostar IIRC?:- small-suitcase sized toploader) Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 10:15:11 -0700 (PDT) From: Derek White Subject: RE: [idealcopy] Another great one gone Keith Knight wrote: Don't know if it's just me but I just can't understand the fuss about Ray Charles at all. His voice is nothing special and his music does nothing for me (at least from which I've heard). Yes, he was poor and blind and wrote 'Georgia on my Mind'. But I've got to be missing something... Another the Keith Just read that Ray Charles passed away today at age 73. Can't think of anything else to say but "Goodbye Mr. Charles and thank you for the decades of great music". RJH //// Can't in all honesty say that I've spent a lot of time listening to the guy, either, and I, like A.T.Keith can probably name quite a few singers in that genre who's voices I prefer, and also, yes, his music does not a lot for me either, most being fairly ordinary piano vamping:-however, I'm not old enough to recall exactly how much of a stir he caused in his day, and it's pretty obvious that the man influenced so-oo many other artistes down the years. Perhaps his value ultimately isn't so much what he actually played, so much as having the breadth to pull together disparate strands of gospel, soul, jazz, boogie etc and to do it WHEN he did. An innovator in his day, perhaps. Probably , in a strange way, and in another genre, analogous to Chuck Berry, insofar as he's another artist who doesn't really do anything for me, and his three-chord tricks sound desperately ordinary:- however this is to miss the point that to some large degree, he wrote the book on that style. Perhaps that could be said of Ray Charles in *his* field. Still, whatever your opinions, it is another very durable artist of some considerable stature who's shuffled off the mortal coil, who will doubtless be missed by his still very numerous fans. In that context, it *is* a sad loss. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger. http://messenger.yahoo.com/ Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 13:27:29 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Rockpalast/ Wire TV & So it goes.... > >>///REALLY?? My understanding of the thing is that despite Betamax being > by some distance the better of the two systems, with far greater playback > stability, at least as far as colour-registration and 'trick modes' such as > freeze-frame goes, the reason VHS won out in the format wars was that it got > there *first* with the VCR for domestic use? Have I been accepting of bs all > these years?<< Fraid so. the reason JVC's VHS took off was that they licenced out the technology to all and sundry, while Sony kept Betamax to itself. Like I said, similar situation to Apple Mac vs IBM PC. Betamax was launched in Japan in 1975, but not in the UK till late 1978. VHS had been launched a few months earlier. > >> So when did the first *domestic* VHS machine get a UK release, then? > (Ferguson Videostar IIRC?:- small-suitcase sized toploader)<< > > No, JVC, the inventors of the system, had the first machine. Here's the original launch ad and machine... I guess the Ferguson was mechanically very similar. http://www.terramedia.co.uk/video/JVC_launches_VHS_in_UK.htm Which all means that nobody could have taped So It Goes (which ran from 76-77) on either a VHS or Betamax machine. They would have to have used a Philips VCR (UK launch 1974) or a Umatic. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 13:36:50 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Another great one gone Pretty much agree with Keith & Derek here - Ray Charles is someone who seems to come from a time and place far too removed from my personal experiences, interests and tastes. Don't doubt his qualities as an innovator or as a person, but I can't imagine wanting to stick a Ray Charles album on the CD player of an evening... On a more surreal note, anyone remember the Peugeot car ads of a few years ago which featured Ray, improbably, driving a car across the desert. Must've had some good gear down the ad agency that afternoon. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 11:15:09 -0700 (PDT) From: Ari Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Rockpalast/ Wire TV & So it goes.... my understanding was that Sony invented vhs but were not happy with the results,so they went on to develop betamax,which sanyo also picked up,jvc however took the option of vhs and went on to develop it further and,more importantly,flooded the rental market with this format when such shops opened up.? Ari MarkBursa@aol.com wrote:> >>///REALLY?? My understanding of the thing is that despite Betamax being > by some distance the better of the two systems, with far greater playback > stability, at least as far as colour-registration and 'trick modes' such as > freeze-frame goes, the reason VHS won out in the format wars was that it got > there *first* with the VCR for domestic use? Have I been accepting of bs all > these years?<< Fraid so. the reason JVC's VHS took off was that they licenced out the technology to all and sundry, while Sony kept Betamax to itself. Like I said, similar situation to Apple Mac vs IBM PC. Betamax was launched in Japan in 1975, but not in the UK till late 1978. VHS had been launched a few months earlier. > >> So when did the first *domestic* VHS machine get a UK release, then? > (Ferguson Videostar IIRC?:- small-suitcase sized toploader)<< > > No, JVC, the inventors of the system, had the first machine. Here's the original launch ad and machine... I guess the Ferguson was mechanically very similar. http://www.terramedia.co.uk/video/JVC_launches_VHS_in_UK.htm Which all means that nobody could have taped So It Goes (which ran from 76-77) on either a VHS or Betamax machine. They would have to have used a Philips VCR (UK launch 1974) or a Umatic. Mark Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 14:53:51 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Rockpalast/ Wire TV & So it goes.... > my understanding was that Sony invented vhs but were not happy with the > results,so they went on to develop betamax,which sanyo also picked up,jvc > however took the option of vhs and went on to develop it further and,more > importantly,flooded the rental market with this format when such shops opened up.? Ari Sort of.... http://www.sony.net/Fun/SH/1-14/h1.html This is Sony's side of the story. Sony claims that the basic patented technology of both Beta and VHS is its own (though doubtless Philips would have a strong argument against this) but Japanese manufacturers could not agree a standard (see also various 'enhanced' CD formats, etc). JVC developed the VHS format as we know it, and the simpler technicalities swayed other Japanese companies like Matsushita, the market leader. The market took over from there - especially VHS's ability to accommodate a full movie on one tape, which early Beta tapes couldn't do (60 mins maximum). Mark ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 12:25:13 -0700 From: "Paul Pietromonaco" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Rockpalast/ Wire TV & So it goes.... > my understanding was that Sony invented vhs but > were not happy with the results, This is essentially correct. Sony developed the "M" tape loading system, but rejected it on technical merits due to the inability to FF or REW without unloading the tape. They then developed the "Omega" load format, which did exactly that. If you never tried it back in the day, you could hit stop on a Beta, hit FF, hit stop and hit Play, and it happened that fast. VHS, on the other hand, you would hit stop, you waited for the tape to unthread, hit FF, hit stop, hit Play, and then waited for the tape to re-thread before the picture started again. JVC was looking for a tape mechanism. Sony actually *sold* them their failed "M-load" system, figuring nobody would ever buy it. (^_^) Sony also patented "recording of video signals on 1/2 tape". This led JVC to work around the patents - most notably in the video signal which Sony had the key patents for. That's why early VHS had such terrible grey scale linearity - JVC literally had to put an extra encoding step to record the video signal and an extra decoding step to play it back. Technically, this Encode/Decode cycle wasn't necessary, but Sony held the patent. I found it very interesting that when Sony introduced their first VHS decks, they used a modified Omega load system, and had perfect grey scale linearity. (^_^) > and, more importantly, flooded the rental market with this > format when such shops opened up? Yes, with the technology that drives most technical innovation. Porn. Sony wouldn't license Beta for porn use. JVC had no problems with this. The other key thing to remember here from an American perspective is the shrewdness of Panasonic, JVC's parent company. When RCA approached Sony and Panasonic to introduce a home VCR, they had one stipulation - it had to be long enough to tape an American Football game. This meant a 4 hr recording time. (Remember that?). JVC had 2 hr with VHS (SP), Sony had 1 hr with Beta (Beta 1), soon to be 2 hrs (Beta 2). JVC wouldn't do 4 hour - their technology didn't support it - so Panasonic took a standard VHS deck, and cut the motor speed in half. Viola - 4 hr mode (LP) was born, RCA chose VHS, and history was made in the U.S. The problem was - JVC was right. The head geometries, and motor speeds just didn't support 4 hours. So, JVC added an extra pair of video heads and optimized for 6 hours. This was the first 4 head deck - and I actually still have this model. 2 & 6 hour - no 4. In fact, no JVC models have ever recorded at 4 hours - only the Panasonic/Hitachi derivatives. Sorry for the length of this post! Along with Color TV broadcast systems, VCRs and LaserDisc players were the other things I studied for my Electrical Engineering degree! (^_^) Cheers, Paul ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 16:15:05 EDT From: Eardrumbuz@aol.com Subject: [idealcopy] used wire items at parasol just rec'd an email from parasol, which included the following used items...in case anyone's interested. - -paul c.d. Newman, Colin Inventory/This Picture PS, UK 1981 single from Wire mainman's A-Z album. BeggarsBanquet-052 45 $5.00 Wire On Returning (1977-1979) PS, US RestlessRetro-72358 CD $5.00 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 16:23:42 EDT From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Rockpalast/ Wire TV & So it goes.... In a message dated 11/06/2004 19:57:25 GMT Standard Time, MarkBursa@aol.com writes: > >my understanding was that Sony invented vhs but were not happy with the > >results,so they went on to develop betamax,which sanyo also picked up,jvc > >however took the option of vhs and went on to develop it further and,more > >importantly,flooded the rental market with this format when such shops > opened up.? ///////the alternate version i've heard of this tale (more than once) is that those naughty VHS people made sure all the porn was available much more cheaply and widespread in their clunky format , thus ensuring victory over those more moralistic sony types. p ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 16:57:50 EDT From: Eardrumbuz@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Rockpalast/ Wire TV & So it goes.... interesting that sony would wait 2-3 years before introducing the betamax in the uk. i wonder if there was a technical reason or if it was strictly a marketing issue. is that the case with other technologies? and now for a very off-topic technical tv nintendo gamecube question that hopefully paul p. or someone can answer. my son's gamecube was hooked up to our 15 yr old hitachi tv, and every once in a while we would witness a sort of white flash and a quick sizzling or zapping sound. i thought it might be a compatability issue, so we just got him a new advent tv to play his games. the same thing happened on the new set and i'm wondering what the problem is...anyone know? - -paul c.d. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 15:29:07 -0700 (PDT) From: Ari Subject: [idealcopy] O.T:Wilco's new international/usa tour dates http://www.wilcoweb.com/tours/index.html Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 15:45:25 -0700 From: Paul Pietromonaco Subject: RE: [idealcopy] Rockpalast/ Wire TV & So it goes.... > my son's gamecube was hooked up to our 15 yr old hitachi tv, > and every once > in a while we would witness a sort of white flash and a quick > sizzling or > zapping sound. i thought it might be a compatability issue, > so we just got him a > new advent tv to play his games. the same thing happened on > the new set and i'm > wondering what the problem is...anyone know? > ASTEROID!!! (Hee hee.... (^_^)) Actually, I'm not sure. That really doesn't sound too healthy, does it? It could be the power supply in the set is giving out. It would zap like that if it were starting to develop internal short circuits. But, you mention that you just bought a new set, so that pretty much rules that out. Do you have a surge protector on the system? You might be getting power line fluctuations. I would plug the GameCube and the TV into the same surge protector, and see if that helps. Do you see it watching regular TV, or DVDs? There is a remote possibility that the GameCube is intermittantly shorting out its power supply to the video signal lines - but that's a pretty darn remote possibility. Cheers, Paul ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 19:04:48 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Rockpalast/ Wire TV & So it goes.... interesting that sony would wait 2-3 years before introducing the betamax in the uk. i wonder if there was a technical reason or if it was strictly a marketing issue. is that the case with other technologies? Yep. They couldn't get the factory to build right-hand drive Betamaxes ;-) Mark ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V7 #174 *******************************