From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V7 #172 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Thursday, June 10 2004 Volume 07 : Number 172 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [idealcopy] Exileinside: A Man in a Suitcase ["Keith Astbury" ] Re: [idealcopy] PAL v NTSC (was Wireviews update) [Andrew Walkingshaw ] Re: [idealcopy] Best guitar solo...ever! [Derek White ] Re: [idealcopy] Tim sed.......(pt.1.4) [Ari ] Re: [idealcopy] upcoming idealcopy shows in ATL [RLynn9@aol.com] [idealcopy] Pink Dotology [] Re: [idealcopy] Pink Dotology [RLynn9@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] Pink Dotology [] Re: [idealcopy] PAL v NTSC (was Wireviews update) [Tim Subject: [idealcopy] Exileinside: A Man in a Suitcase I like this idea... Jake is forming an American version of ExileInside. Yes, ExileInside will be playing a selection of shows in Manhattan and beyond in August this year, but there will be different faces behind the guitar, keyboards and drums. New York Guitarist and songwriter Kenward Cooper will be laying down the foundations and rehearsing the band over the pond while Jake begins promotion for the forthcoming album in the UK. "This is yet another innovative and original way to get EI across to a new audience on a very limited budget" said Jake. The idea is influenced by 60s cult show A Man In a Suitcase. "Just a return ticket, a laptop and a clean suit is all I need. I'm looking forward to performing with, and meeting new people and talking about EI's autonomous philosophy" If this idea works I don't see why there cant be an Australian EI or even a Japanese band, an EI Franchise! We will notify our US mailing list once dates are confirmed. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2004 03:46:06 -0700 (PDT) From: Jan Noorda Subject: [idealcopy] (OT) 3rd of July in Amsterdam Back from Amsterdam. I could choose for a concert Coil, Chris&Cozy, Whitehouse for 25 Euro in the Melkweg or Tuxedomoon in the Paradiso for 15 Euro. Went to the Brown, Reiniger, Geduldig, van Lieshout, Principle. And I had a strange feeling running up to these old liquid with oil projections mixed with old american black-white propaganda movies. There was that feeling Tuxedomoon started playing in 1981 doing the same thing and they have never stopped. Or am I getting older. They look a older anyway and there voices are not that clear anymore. Smoking, beers etc. Those images, that entourage, this music, even with a rythm box. A kind of documentary from the early 80s. The sound was not so god. Too many instruments maybe. But on the 2nd encore. Brown on sax, a tape and Reiniger on violin.(I think it was their song Nazca) Some one shouted from the audience "Tuxedomoon, Just Fucking Brilliant. Indeed. This was where I was coming for. The other day I visited Staalplaat. And heard some sad news about them. Staalplaat shop in Amterdam wil be closed after a couple of weeks. I think that's terrible news for Amsterdam and maybe Holland. They are probably the only one who supports new alternative art-music. Jim O Rourke nearly lived at Staalplaat for a while. Or Hafler Trio, Muslimgauze, Ikeda etc. The only place in the Netherlands where you could find these musical-art outings like the TG-box (on cassette) or Randy Greif's Alice in Wonderland. Cassettes hidden in milk-boxes or a ceedee made by Fergus. Compare them a little to These records in London or Metamkine in Paris. You can reach the Staalplaat shop only physical now in Berlin. There web-site shop will stay. http://www.staalplaat.com Earlier that week I watched and heared a Hobby, a Eurasian Curlew, a Black Stork, a Spoonbill and three different species of Grebes in one pool. And one man who identifies every birdsound he hears. It's not walking through nature scenes who makes you tired. It's that man. I bought me: Semi Peterson: Sluta Leta and CMvHauswollff: Three overpopulated cities .... Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2004 03:50:06 -0700 (PDT) From: Ari Subject: [idealcopy] Tim sed....... >If I was Colin Newman, frankly I would say..."you can shove this DVD up your ungrateful arses..you really don't have enough shit to worry about in your lives." But I'm not Colin Newman. But I say...."Buy the DVD...Turn it Up. Enjoy. If I live to be 80, god willing, on my deathbed I'm pretty sure I *won't* be saying "Oh no, i'm dying...I wish i'd got to see 'Rockpalast' in PAL format...that sweeping trace effect when Graham Lewis moves his arm over the bass on 'Practice Makes Perfect' really ruined my life< Right on the button Tim,however I feel most of the 'conversation' has some merit,that is,no-one actually said it shouldn't be released in NTSC,rather the drift was the difference between the two systems.Ari Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2004 11:59:32 +0100 From: Andrew Walkingshaw Subject: Re: [idealcopy] PAL v NTSC (was Wireviews update) On Wed, Jun 09, 2004 at 01:58:41AM +0100, Tim wrote: > Clearly, the release of 'Rockpalast' on NTSC has caused concern. This > has lead to threats of: > > "Easily Perceived" flicker" > "50z Frame Rates" > "3:2 interpolation on 24 fps movies" > "Interlaced like PAL. Two 60 Hz frames of 262.5 lines each" > > If I was Colin Newman, frankly I would say..."you can shove this DVD up > your ungrateful arses..you really don't have enough shit to worry about > in your lives." I'd buy it if it was on wax cylinder, personally speaking, and I'm sure the vast majority of the list would. - - Andrew - -- Dept of Earth Sciences, Univ. Cambridge ::: http://www.esc.cam.ac.uk/ email: andrew@lexical.org.uk ::: http://www.lexical.org.uk/blog/ Random Walk, 10pm Wednesdays, CUR1350 ::: http://www.cur1350.co.uk/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2004 12:14:23 +0100 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: Re:Sparks (Was [idealcopy] Rockpalast) > > Something For the Girl With Everything. Just sounds so great! > > Prob my favourite Sparks track and sounds very current for some > reason...has a burst of guitar that wouldn't sound out of place today. > > You need to hear the version that Peter Glaze and Ed Stewart did on > Crackerjack at the time.... I probably did! But regardless of whether I heard it, I know exactly what it would have sounded like!! > > As for Lil Beethoven, well it's one of my fave LP's of recent years. > > I love "The Rhythm Thief"... "Oh No! Where did the Groove Go"...(sung > with a huge Glam-70s chorus effect with lovely emphasis on the word > Groove!..followed by "Lights Out, Ibiza...". Beat That Morrisey!! TRT is truly fab! I've got the recent 'deluxe' version of the album which comes with an instrumental version of TRT amongst it's bonus tracks. It's beautiful piece of music, that - with it's flailing violins - works even without the younger Maels falsetto. I'm not a classical music expert by any means, but imagine Mozart having written the soundtrack A Zed & Two Noughts and you'll have some idea what it's like. With O Superman like 'uh uh uh's!! As someone who kind of gave up on Sparks way back in the 70's, I have to say that the last two albums have been a revelation to me. First the hook-crazy Balls in 2000 with the should-have-been-a-hit title track and the absolutely gorgeous Scheherazade, and now Lil Beethoven. I can't think of any other pre-punk act still making music anywhere near this good, and though I await the new Brian Wilson LP with, er, interest, the inclusion of the dreaded Clapton means the anticipation has been reduced somewhat. If our Bri's got that twat on guitar, I can only think the man is crazier than we thought ; ) Keith NP Sparks - Lil Beethoven ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2004 14:44:37 GMT From: Subject: [idealcopy] upcoming idealcopy shows in ATL alright locals, and i know you are out there. is anyone going to the Echo to see: The Legendary Pink Dots this Friday ((11 June) Acid Mothers Temple next Tuesday (16 June) ???? i should be at both, barring any general wierdness. perhaps we can meet up for beer, etc. PJK please don't hate me because i can't type..... - --- All the cool kids are doing it: HTTP://www.EvilSponge.org ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2004 08:01:38 -0700 (PDT) From: Derek White Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Best guitar solo...ever! Matt Hursh wrote: Substantial, but I'll take (Manzanera's?) solo on Eno's "Baby's on Fire". //// If we're talking about the album version on "Here come the warm jets" here, that solo, which *was* a great moment, was Bob (King Crimson) Fripp...... There *was* also a version, on Manzanera & Eno's side project '801' s live album, I think:- this was almost certainly Manzanera's work IIRC. He certainly did the honours when I saw 801 play at the Reading Festival , here in the UK circa 1975 or '76. Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2004 08:33:52 -0700 (PDT) From: Derek White Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Tim sed....... Ari wrote: >If I was Colin Newman, frankly I would say..."you can shove this DVD up your ungrateful arses..you really don't have enough shit to worry about in your lives."............however I feel most of the 'conversation' has some merit,that is,no-one actually said it shouldn't be released in NTSC,rather the drift was the difference between the two systems.Ari ///// Thank you, Ari! I obviously can't speak for anyone else, but *I* certainly didn't mean any implied criticism of Wire for releasing it in whatever format they saw fit, I was just engaging in what I thought was a somewhat 'techie' kind of exchange about the merits or otherwise of the two systems. Although I'm not *that* sure I'd be first in the queue for one of Andrew's "Wax Cylinder" releases, I understand the point he was making...... However, what's this..."you can shove this DVD up your ungrateful arses.." ?? Whilst I welcome the release of this DVD, I'm not absolutely certain the expected response to it is "gratitude", or anything like. An opening of the wallet, or waving of the plastic perhaps, but 'gratitude', I suspect, is neither expected, or wanted. Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2004 09:08:53 -0700 (PDT) From: Ari Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Tim sed.......(pt.1.4) However, what's this..."you can shove this DVD up your ungrateful arses.." ?? This part was from Tim's original email,I think he's trying to tale Graeme's place on the list..............yo ho ho.Ari Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2004 12:28:34 EDT From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] upcoming idealcopy shows in ATL In a message dated 6/9/04 9:47:42 AM Central Daylight Time, postlibyan@netzero.com writes: > The Legendary Pink Dots this Friday ((11 June) i saw them on the second date of the tour (here in St.Louis) and they were fabulous....they have a new guitarist by the way.... lots of great cds at the merchandise counter....there are three new Legendary Pink Dots releases! as well as a stellar new Edward Ka-Spel solo cd... RL ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2004 16:37:41 GMT From: Subject: [idealcopy] Pink Dotology << lots of great cds at the merchandise counter....there are three new Legendary Pink Dots releases! as well as a stellar new Edward Ka-Spel solo cd... >> i actually don't own anything by them, but i had a buddy who was really into them, and i saw them in... 95 or so? anyway, they put on an _excellent_ show back then, so i am looking forward to seeign them in concert. but for someone who doesn't own any releases, what do you recommend? i can't afford to buy 4 (!!!) new CD's at teh show, but is there something you saw they had that you highly recommend? vinyl is a plus with me as well -- do they have vinyl on tour with them? PJK please don't hate me because i can't type..... - --- All the cool kids are doing it: HTTP://www.EvilSponge.org ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2004 12:57:17 EDT From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Pink Dotology In a message dated 6/9/04 11:51:52 AM Central Daylight Time, postlibyan@netzero.com writes: > but for someone who doesn't own any releases, what do you recommend? i can't > afford to buy 4 (!!!) new CD's at teh show, but is there something you saw > they had that you highly recommend?>>>> well...they pretty much had their entire discography available...it's amazing....my favorites are Shadow Weaver 1 & 2...The Maria Dimension...and The Crushed Velvet Apocalypse as far as earlier/middle period material...fairly recent stand outs would probably be Hallway of the Gods or From Here You'll Watch the World goBy.....but the new stuff is fantastic.. vinyl is a plus with me as well -- do > they have vinyl on tour with them?>>>>> yep...and lots of it enjoy the show! RL > > PJK ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2004 17:43:13 GMT From: Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Pink Dotology hey RLynn -- thansk for the recommendations RE: album purchases.... i say that now, but come Saturday mornign my checkbook will be cursing your name.... esp. with vinyl at the merch table.... PJK please don't hate me because i can't type..... - --- All the cool kids are doing it: HTTP://www.EvilSponge.org ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 09 Jun 2004 20:09:16 +0100 From: Tim Subject: Re: [idealcopy] PAL v NTSC (was Wireviews update) Paul Pietromonaco wrote: >>"Easily Perceived" flicker" >>"50z Frame Rates" >>"3:2 interpolation on 24 fps movies" >>"Interlaced like PAL. Two 60 Hz frames of 262.5 lines each" >> >>If I was Colin Newman, frankly I would say... >>"you can shove this DVD up your ungrateful >>arses..you really don't have enough shit to >>worry about in your lives." > > > As the originator of pretty much every quote Tim mentioned, I feel compelled > to ask: > > "What the hell brought this vitriolic attack on? (^_^)" Must have been the dodgy pretzels I was eating in the pub (not the lagers) Sorry Paul , and everyone else. I think I went a bit over the top! I don't intend on being the new Bill Hick :) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2004 13:47:51 -0700 From: Paul Pietromonaco Subject: RE: [idealcopy] PAL v NTSC (was Wireviews update) > Must have been the dodgy pretzels I was eating in the pub > (not the lagers) > Sorry Paul , and everyone else. I think I went a bit over the top! I > don't intend on being the new Bill Hick :) > So, no ASTEROID, then? (^_^) No worries, Tim! (^_^) Cheers, Paul ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 01:38:37 +0100 From: Tim Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Rockpalast/ Wire TV & So it goes.... Mark says: > > As I understand it most of the tapes were destroyed in a fire at Granada HQ. > There was a compilation show of So It Goes in 1976 to celebrate 10 years of > punk, which had a good hour's worth of stuff (though no Wire). So a lot of stuff > survived at that point,.... I remember it being broadcast (the 1986 repeat that is), and I remember exactly where I was...this was my first experience of Joy Division....(aged 13) That was the clip with some stock footage of motorways and cars overlaid on the top, went well with the beat and Ian doing the hand jive...was it Shadowplay? > > Someone, somewhere must have been recording that show.... technology was > available in 76-77. There'll be an 45-year-old ex-punker in Bolton with a box of > VCR tapes in the garage, with every show on them.... Too true..probably on Betamax though.... > > As for TOTP, there was a show on BBC4 last night about the Black & White > Minstrel Show (hideous racist variety show in which white singers performed > popular songs in blackface, which ran on prime time BBC from 1957 to - wait for it - > 1978!!!), in which the follwing fact was revealed: > > Number of Surviving B&WM episodes: 80 > Number of surviving 60s TOTPs: 4 > > You don't know whether to laugh or cry. > > Mark What struck me was how incredibly unlistenable and unsettling all that music was, horribly White renderings of spirituals/slave chants mixed with the dregs of cheapo music hall and lame 'comic' moments . I actually work with a guy who was an ex B&W minstrel in early 70s! He is in a weird position because as a dancer/performer these were his halcyon days...his moment in the spotlight (and he backs up the fact that they, the BBC and the audience were quite innocently clueless as to how *wrong* it all was at the time!). He's proud of the fact that he once peformed regularly in front of 10s of millions on primetime TV... but of course he can't really bask in his glory days now.... ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2004 18:12:11 -0700 From: Paul Pietromonaco Subject: [idealcopy] [OT] The Standard, Oceansize, Mclusky live in Seattle, WA Hi everyone, I think this may of interest to IdealCopiers. If my memory serves me correctly some, or all, of these bands have been mentioned here lately. If not, please delete now, and mea culpa! Last Friday, June 4th, my girlfriend Dana and I saw The Standard, Oceansize & Mclusky at the Crocodile Cafe in Seattle, WA. The show was $10.00 US, and completely sold out. Originally, we weren't even going to go to the show, but luckily, Dana won tickets at a drawing at a local record store. Since I had never heard any of these bands before, live or on CD, I was really looking forward to the show! Due to various reasons beyond our control, we arrived near the tail end of The Standard's set. They were playing songs from their "Wire Post To Wire" album - which I think has been mentioned here before. (^_^). They're actually from (relatively) nearby Portland, OR., and they had an intense, yet fragile sound. I thought pretty highly of them, although the lead singer's quivery voice takes a little getting used to. I picked up the vinyl (!) of "Wire Post To Wire" at the show - 180g double record release. I'm looking forward to getting a chance to listen to it! Oceansize were up next. The band uses the Radiohead lineup as a blueprint - three electric guitars, drum and bass. Yet, they sound much more like My Bloody Valentine or Tool. Pretty much "blew the roof off the joint" as they say here in America. With three Marshall amps and a large bass cabinet on the extremely tiny Crocodile Cafe stage, it pretty much blew the ears off my head, too. (^_^) I had reach over and cover Dana's ears a couple of times during some of the feedback solos - it was industrial strength, but cathartic, too. And, yes, I picked up their CD "Efforesce" at the show. After a quick trip to the back bar to calm our ears - and get a drink or two - - we headed back into the main room for Mclusky. Their set started out great - funny, quirky Pixies-esque rock with some great punk energy. But, then something weird started to happen. The guitars got louder, and the vocals dropped out. The Pixies-like edges fell away, and it more or less turned into vaguely generic punk rock. After a few songs in this vein, Dana and I decided to save what was left of our hearing, and call it a night. We've quite enjoyed the Mclusky we've heard on CD or on our Independent Campus Radio Station(r) - Dana has one of their CDs, but I can't remember which one right now - but for some reason or another, their set just didn't grab us. Based on other reviews I've read, it was probably just an off night for them. So, all in all, quite the excellent evening. Well worth the price, that's for sure! (^_^) Cheers, Paul ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2004 21:43:31 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Rockpalast/ Wire TV & So it goes.... >>I remember it being broadcast (the 1986 repeat that is), and I remember exactly where I was...this was my first experience of Joy Division....(aged 13) That was the clip with some stock footage of motorways and cars overlaid on the top, went well with the beat and Ian doing the hand jive...was it Shadowplay?<< It was indeed Shadowplay. And it wasn't off So It Goes. Tony W actually got JD to perform the song on Granada Reports, (the local news bulletin in the north-west) and the broadcast went out about 6.30pm. There's also a very early clip of the Fall on the '86 compilation, as well as the usual stuff (Pistols, Clash, Costello etc). There were a few decent punk retrospectives around 86-87; there was a good LWT one called Short Sharp Shock, on which are featured (very briefly) the Bears. George Gill's only TV moment - - he's shown for about 4 seconds ;-) > >>Someone, somewhere must have been recording that show.... technology was > >available in 76-77. There'll be an 45-year-old ex-punker in Bolton with a > box of > >VCR tapes in the garage, with every show on them.... > > Too true..probably on Betamax though....<< Betamax hadn't been invented then! The first home videos were VCR format - single spool tapes, like 8-track cartridges. 1 hour maximum I think. These were made by Philips and came out in 1972. VHS came out in late 77, so even that would have been too late for So It Goes. Betamax followed, crucially, one year later. Technically better than VHS, but by then VHS strode the rental shop firmament like a colossus. And JVC licenced out its VHS technology whereas Sony kept Betamax all to itself. Rather like PC/Windows versus Apple Mac. Philips came out with an even better format called Video 2000 in 1980. It bombed. You also had industrial-grade UMatic videos, which were built like a Sherman tank and had huge tapes, like VHS but about half as big again. We had them at the office I worked in 1980 for showing promo films on... good quality but useless! So even if someone was taping SIG, it would have been on VCR or UMatic. The latter would have been highly unlikely, so you'd have to find a working VCR to copy them off! > > >>What struck me was how incredibly unlistenable and unsettling all that > music was, horribly White renderings of spirituals/slave chants mixed > with the dregs of cheapo music hall and lame 'comic' moments .<< > > Dismal, wasn't it. Two shows that stick in the mind from the 60s were that > one and The Good Old Days, a faux-Victorian variety show, which like the B& > WMs, lasted well beyond its sell-by date (into the 1980s). > >>I actually work with a guy who was an ex B&W minstrel in early 70s! He > is in a weird position because as a dancer/performer these were his > halcyon days...his moment in the spotlight (and he backs up the fact > that they, the BBC and the audience were quite innocently clueless as to > how *wrong* it all was at the time!). He's proud of the fact that he > once peformed regularly in front of 10s of millions on primetime TV... > but of course he can't really bask in his glory days now....<< > > Extraordinary how naive Britain was - as recently as the late '70s. Amazing > to think that the B&WMs was still being shown in 1978. > > Mark ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 14:50:01 +1000 From: Hamish MacKenzie Subject: [idealcopy] Ordier - Bruce Gilbert Ordier is there to order! Can anyone vouch for the reliability or otherwise of Norman Records? http://www.normanrecords.com Hamish ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V7 #172 *******************************