From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V7 #160 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Friday, May 28 2004 Volume 07 : Number 160 Today's Subjects: ----------------- AW: [idealcopy] Supporting Roxy Music ["Woerner Frank-Juergen" ] Re: [idealcopy] just woke up ... [RLynn9@aol.com] [idealcopy] ot- Ulrich Schnauss [Alistair Tear ] [idealcopy] pjh / ordier [PaulRabjohn@aol.com] Re: AW: [idealcopy] Supporting Roxy Music [Derek White Subject: AW: [idealcopy] Supporting Roxy Music > -----Urspr|ngliche Nachricht----- > Von: owner-idealcopy@smoe.org > [mailto:owner-idealcopy@smoe.org] Im Auftrag von Clements, Bruno - BUP > Gesendet: Dienstag, 25. Mai 2004 13:49 > An: 'idealcopy@smoe.org' > Betreff: [idealcopy] Supporting Roxy Music > > > ...I've seen Wire just once in my lifetime, supporting Roxy Music in > Erlangen, > can't remember which year that was. Frank > > >>>They supposedly hated those gigs and were given a hard > time by the Roxy > Music people. It would be interested to know what the > perception was of an > audience member... especially as I doubt most RM fans even > remember them > playing. Circa 1972/73 I was a big Roxy Music fan, saw them in Nuernberg at this time and had an interesting conversation with them after the concert. I lost interest after "Stranded" and was more interested in Punk and New Wave which led me to Wire, XTC, Siouxsie, etc. when their first records came out. When I was at this Roxy Music & Wire concert I was more interested in seeing Wire but of course stayed till the end of the RM show. The only RM record I still play nowadays is the solo-album from Andy MacKay (cannot remember the title now) and some Eno mp3s now and then. regards, Frank ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 11:03:33 +0100 From: "Clements, Bruno - BUP" Subject: [idealcopy] Supporting Roxy Music - ----When I was at this Roxy Music & Wire concert I was more interested in seeing Wire but of course stayed till the end of the RM show. The only RM record I still play nowadays is the solo-album from Andy MacKay (cannot remember the title now) and some Eno mp3s now and then. regards, Frank >>>>Yes, Eno's stuff hasn't dated badly - I'm gradually replacing my vinyl box set (Working Backwards, I think it was called) - with CDs. Hard to believe some of this stuff is now 30 years old! My main interest was in whether you could tell if the band were having a reasonably good time, or if they were just going through the motions to get the whole thing over with. Can't say it really matters though ;-) All the best Bruno ********************************************************************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses. www.mimesweeper.com ********************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 13:28:40 +0200 From: "Woerner Frank-Juergen" Subject: AW: [idealcopy] Supporting Roxy Music > -----Urspr|ngliche Nachricht----- > Von: owner-idealcopy@smoe.org > [mailto:owner-idealcopy@smoe.org] Im Auftrag von Clements, Bruno - BUP > Gesendet: Mittwoch, 26. Mai 2004 12:04 > An: 'idealcopy@smoe.org' > Betreff: [idealcopy] Supporting Roxy Music > > > ----When I was at this Roxy Music & Wire concert I was more > interested in > seeing Wire but of course stayed till the end of the RM show. > > The only RM record I still play nowadays is the solo-album > from Andy MacKay > (cannot remember the title now) and some Eno mp3s now and then. > > regards, > > Frank > > > >>>>Yes, Eno's stuff hasn't dated badly - I'm gradually > replacing my vinyl > box set (Working Backwards, I think it was called) - with CDs. Hard to > believe some of this stuff is now 30 years old! > > My main interest was in whether you could tell if the band > were having a > reasonably good time, or if they were just going through the > motions to get > the whole thing over with. Can't say it really matters though ;-) > > All the best > > Bruno Sorry, I don't remember if they had fun during the show. Whenever I was at a concert I tried to have some personal contact with the musicians, sometimes I had success and backstage access, sadly not at this RM/Wire concert. I remember being at a Nazareth show (well, I was young and unexperienced) and jamming with the guys - I was very proud. Also I was collecting items - I still have a feather of Eno's jacket he wears on the inside cover of "For your pleasure". regards, Frank ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 12:36:01 +0100 From: "Clements, Bruno - BUP" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] Supporting Roxy Music >>>I still have a feather of Eno's jacket he wears on the inside cover of "For your pleasure". ...Wow! What would an item like that fetch on eBay I wonder! Bruno ********************************************************************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses. www.mimesweeper.com ********************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 14:59:40 +0200 From: "Woerner Frank-Juergen" Subject: [idealcopy] Orange Juice - Rip it up > -----Urspr|ngliche Nachricht----- > Von: owner-idealcopy@smoe.org > [mailto:owner-idealcopy@smoe.org] Im Auftrag von MarkBursa@aol.com > Gesendet: Freitag, 2. April 2004 01:47 > An: keith.indoorminer@virgin.net; steeleknight@lineone.net; > alistairtear@streetmanagement.org.uk; PaulRabjohn@aol.com > Cc: idealcopy@smoe.org > Betreff: Re: [idealcopy] RE: Worst band line-up (was The Who) > > > > >>Careless Whisper is undoubtedly the worst. There's a > really dismal one in > > Orange > > >Juice's Rip it up. > > > > NO!!! > > > > I love everything about that record. It's perfect!!<< > > The totally different 12in is far better and lacks the sax! > > Mark There is a 12' version of this track? Well, has anyone a mp3 available? I - of course have the vinyl album and some kind of "best of" cd but I've never heard another version. regards, Frank ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 15:56:57 +0200 From: "Woerner Frank-Juergen" Subject: [idealcopy] Fantastic Music Alert Hi, may I recommend "summer Sun" from Yo la Tengo. I know its not brand new but at least its new to me. Best music I've heard for several months. Frank ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 11:03:54 -0500 From: "dan bailey" Subject: [idealcopy] just woke up ... ... from a dream in which i was in a gym, playing soccer (quite poorly, as would be expected, since i haven't deliberately kicked a ball in more than 30 years, & then quite half-heartedly) with roger moore & engelbert humperdinck (both of whom were quite good). what i want to know is ... *why*? dan ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 12:13:11 EDT From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] just woke up ... In a message dated 5/26/04 11:10:21 AM Central Daylight Time, dpbailey@worldnet.att.net writes: > ... from a dream in which i was in a gym, playing soccer (quite poorly, as > would be expected, since i haven't deliberately kicked a ball in more than > 30 years, & then quite half-heartedly) with roger moore & engelbert > humperdinck (both of whom were quite good). what i want to know is ... > *why*? > > dan well Dan...because i was coaching...... RL ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 12:28:52 +0100 From: Alistair Tear Subject: [idealcopy] ot- Ulrich Schnauss Well I went along to see him the other night and I'm glad I did... The event was a 'Club ac30' night http://www.clubac30.com/ shoegazers, apparently... First up was Air Foundation, competent & sort of ok as a support act but really sounding like a second-rate Silo... Second up was Mr Schnauss....sittiing down with keyboards and powerbook, it was not possible to really see what was going on (the place was rammed by the way, on a Tuesday night as well!) The sound was enormous, in fact, after a while I started to get that sensation of deafness in me ears...and they call this 'Ambient' ? not in my book it ain't...and it ain't 'ambient techno' either...it's hard to say what it is, except, giant waves of machine-made music... (trying to avoid words like 'shimmering' here, Tim ;- ) I liked it very much, apart from the final piece, which was strangely dull and ineffective and we weren't treated to any visuals, interesting or otherwise.... I'm not familiar with the cd's so I can't give any setlist details.. Third up was highly rated Scottish alt-country outfit the Zephyrs... http://tinyurl.com/3948r whose album 'when the sky comes down it comes down on your head' is called ' a perfect record' on AMG.... They had a hardcore following of 50 or so who thronged the front of the stage...trouble was, most people had obviously come to see U.S. and when his set was over, those who didn't leave stood around drinking and talking VERY LOUD...making it utterly impossible to appreciate what was being played...why do people do this? because they are ignorant assholes... later A next up - Robert Wilson's 'the black rider' Saturday ************************************************************************* The contents of the e-mail and any transmitted files are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. Transport for London Street Management hereby excludes any warranty and any liability as to the quality or accuracy of the contents of this e-mail and any attached transmitted files. If you are not the intended recipient, be advised that you have received this e-mail in error and that any use, dissemination, forwarding, printing or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please notify postmaster@Streetmanagement.org.uk. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept for the presence of computer viruses. ************************************************************************* ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 13:03:04 +0100 From: Alistair Tear Subject: [idealcopy] ot-Hellfire! Momartt, a warehouse for artworks in East London, has burned down.. http://tinyurl.com/2d24u The Chapmans seem to be taking it quite well... Jake and Dinos Chapman, however, had their minds on other things yesterday, despite losing their major piece, Hell. "We're having a bit of a disaster in the studio," Dinos said. "There's a flood. We've had fire and flood and now we are expecting pestilence." He added: "If the insurers decide the fire is an act of God it's going to be quite funny - that God destroyed Hell. In fact if that happens I will start going to church. "It's only art - there are worse things happening around the world." A ************************************************************************* The contents of the e-mail and any transmitted files are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. Transport for London Street Management hereby excludes any warranty and any liability as to the quality or accuracy of the contents of this e-mail and any attached transmitted files. If you are not the intended recipient, be advised that you have received this e-mail in error and that any use, dissemination, forwarding, printing or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please notify postmaster@Streetmanagement.org.uk. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept for the presence of computer viruses. ************************************************************************* ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 16:05:35 +0200 From: "Jan J Noorda" Subject: [idealcopy] from the Tuxedomon list, but topic enough Maybe it is true. If you are part of your favourite band newsgroup-list you have to write about your other favourite bands. In other words. I am member of the Tuxedomoon list, but there is written recently more about Minimal Compact (and Wire). Of course there is the link Marc Hollander or Crammed disques. But here is a nice one from Uri Shasham about Minimal Compact. I asked him for writing this message here. I have the recordings of the gig in Tel Aviv with Colin Newman (WELL-KNOWN) and Luc van Lieshout (TUXEDOMOON) in soundboard quality (not from radio) I uploaded it to my soulseeq shared folder. Id anyone is interested my username is tgfan. Uri np Harmonia: Musik von Harmonia Jan ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 16:24:38 +0200 From: "Jan J Noorda" Subject: [idealcopy] Wire in the Wire Found two messages for what is Wire concerned In the big article about Christian Fennesz: And the 90s were the years of Techno, a futurist music hammered together in the forge of Europe. In the middle of all this, Fennesz was beavering away at his guitar and effects, alone, on the music that would end up on the "Instrument EP". "I hadn't met Pita (Peter Rehberg) before, and when I was working in my little room, composing those tracks, I sent a demo-tape to Swim records, to Colin Newman. Colin phoned me and said, "you should get in touch with Peter Rehberg, he's doing this kind of stuff in Vienna, I didn't know this." In the review about Pan Sonic - Kesto 4CD Box (Blast First) Pan Sonic dot "Kesto" with a number of dedications in the form of homages. The obvious ones are SUICIDE and THROBBING GRISTLE, as the duo loosely reinterpret the respective cuts "Ghost Rider"and "20 Jazz Funk Greats". with remarkable success. The BRUCE GILBERT and KEJI HAINO home are less obvious, as overblown, jet engine blasts of sound obliterate the rhythmic underpinnings. "Saeteily", dedicated to CHARLEMAGNE PALESTINE, appropriately spans the full hour of disc four. Jan ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 04:01:27 -0400 From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: [idealcopy] pjh / ordier pjh on jools holland tonight , might be good? got a promo copy of the new lp and it sounds ok , not so glossy as the previous one. no dramatic departures but pretty good stuff. anyone worked out if this ordier bruce cd is actually available to buy yet? there's another one on ebay now. p ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 07:09:53 -0700 (PDT) From: Derek White Subject: Re: AW: [idealcopy] Supporting Roxy Music Woerner Frank-Juergen wrote: > The only RM record I still play nowadays is the solo-album > from Andy MacKay > (cannot remember the title now) Would this perhaps be "In search of Eddie Riff" that you're referring to? > >>>>Yes, Eno's stuff hasn't dated badly - Agreed, and some stuff can be picked up for a song right now:- I recently got hold of "Before and after science" and "Here come the warm jets" on CD's for 4ukp and 5ukp respectively.........those shows with Wire supporting must've been slightly strange affairs, though:- Can't imagine too many of the RM crowd warming to 'our boys' too much. I'm not surprised to read that Wire didn't enjoy the experience too much. One listee said that they [wire] felt they were 'badly treated by the Roxy Music people':- was he referring to the fans, or more the band and their management entourage? And I'd just love to know how such an apparently incongruous pairing was planned for the tour? Who had the original idea of touring together? Anyone? Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 15:33:57 +0100 From: "Clements, Bruno - BUP" Subject: RE: AW: [idealcopy] Supporting Roxy Music Derek wrote of my comments: Wire felt they were 'badly treated by the Roxy Music people'. Was he (Bruno) referring to the fans, or more the band and their management entourage? And I'd just love to know how such an apparently incongruous pairing was planned for the tour? Who had the original idea of touring together? Anyone? - ---I think Wire had their set time cut back because the RM management (?) didn't like what they were doing - Wire's response was to play the whole set, only faster! I think the roadies weren't very helpful, either. They found the opposite with the Tubes, and learned a lot about stage lighting. - ---I can't remember whether my sources for this were stereosociety (Mike Thorne's superb website) or elsewhere but I think the above is a fair summary. B ********************************************************************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses. www.mimesweeper.com ********************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 16:01:01 +0100 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: AW: [idealcopy] Supporting Roxy Music >I'd just love to know how such an apparently incongruous pairing was planned for the tour? Who had the original idea of touring together? Anyone? I seem to recall it was very much the thing to do at the time - have a punk / new wave band as support. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 16:12:40 +0100 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: [idealcopy] 12 Steps To Building The Ultimate Post-Punk Collection Don't think anyone's mentioned the "12 Steps To Building The Ultimate Post-Punk Collection" article in this months Q. There at no. 2 was Chairs Missing. "Emerging in the nmidst of punk, Wire were immediately cast as outsiders. Older than their peers, the Home Counties quartet delivered cerebral pop that resisted easy catagorisation. At the time, CM's other-worldliness was sneeringly compared with Pink Floyd, but the impact of songs such as Outdoor Miner and I Am The Fly later cast a heavy spell over Blur and Elastica." Key track: Outdoor Miner The others - with 'key track' in brackets were. 1.. Pere Ubu - Modern Dance (Non-alignment Pact) 2.. CM 3.. Devo - Are We Not Men? (Mongoloid) 4.. Magazine - Real Life (Shot By Both Sides) 5.. PIL - Metal Box (Poptones) 6.. The Cure - Three Imaginary Boys (10:15 Saturday Night) 7.. Gang of Four - Entertainment (At Home He's A Tourist) 8.. Joy Division - Closer (Decades) 9.. Talking Heads - Remain In Light (Once In A Lifetime) 10.. Orange Juice - You Can't Hide Your Love Forever (Falling & Laughing) 11.. Hot Hot Heat - Make Up The Breakdown (Bandages) 12.. Franz Ferdinand - s/t (Take Me Out) There's also a rather pointless Top 100 gigs ever, which suggests that either virtually every 'greatest gig ever' has taken place in London or means that the list was compiled by a bunch of southern softy journalists who need to get out of the capital occasionally. Keith ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 11:33:58 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: AW: [idealcopy] Supporting Roxy Music > >>And I'd just love to know how such an apparently incongruous pairing was > planned for the tour? Who had the original idea of touring together? Anyone?< > < > > Is it really so incongruous? > > Both bands represented the more arty ends of their respective movements > (glam & punk). > Both bands were defined as 'art rock' but were equally seen as capable of producing classic left-field pop singles (Virginai Plain/Pyjamarama/Outdoor Miner/Map Ref etc) > Both bands had a very streamlined and 'European' approach. > > Both bands contained a 'non-musician' who was essential to their sound > (Eno/BCG) > > Can you not hear elements of Eno's solo albums in early Wire? One of the few > tangible influences, I'd say... > > Did not Mr Lewis' croon/quiff/leather kecks combo not contain sizeable > styslitic nods in the direction of Mr Ferry? > > The only trouble was post-Eno Roxy had, by '79, settled into smooth pipe 'n' > slippers MOR. Like a lot of Glam bands, they'd not adapted to the post-punk > landscape, though I know Manzanera was pretty sussed about the post-punk > scene. I know this because he sells his old vinyl through a record shop a couple > of miles away from me. I am the owner of PM's copy of 3R4, among others! > > Mark ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 11:42:33 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] 12 Steps To Building The Ultimate Post-Punk Collection >> 1.. Pere Ubu - Modern Dance (Non-alignment Pact) 2.. CM 3.. Devo - Are We Not Men? (Mongoloid) 4.. Magazine - Real Life (Shot By Both Sides) 5.. PIL - Metal Box (Poptones) 6.. The Cure - Three Imaginary Boys (10:15 Saturday Night) 7.. Gang of Four - Entertainment (At Home He's A Tourist) 8.. Joy Division - Closer (Decades) 9.. Talking Heads - Remain In Light (Once In A Lifetime) 10.. Orange Juice - You Can't Hide Your Love Forever (Falling &Laughing) 11.. Hot Hot Heat - Make Up The Breakdown (Bandages) 12.. Franz Ferdinand - s/t (Take Me Out)<< They always ruin these things by adding in new bands. Replace HHH & FF with Josef K and The Pop Group and you might get a reasonable picture of the arty/edgy/guitar end of post-punk. Surely also Fear of Music and Unknown Pleasures rather than their follow-ups. And surely you can't compile a list like that without XTC in some shape or form. They probably inform the current post-punk revival as much as any band... > >>There's also a rather pointless Top 100 gigs ever, which suggests that > either > virtually every 'greatest gig ever' has taken place in London or means that > the list was compiled by a bunch of southern softy journalists who need to > get > out of the capital occasionally.<< > > Or was someone's set in a field at Glastonbury. I suspect they watched those > on telly and have therefore been able to turn the miserable festival > experience into a quasi-religious one. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 16:44:33 +0100 From: "Clements, Bruno - BUP" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] 12 Steps To Building The Ultimate Post-Punk Colle ction - ---Don't think anyone's mentioned the "12 Steps To Building The Ultimate Post-Punk Collection" article in this months Q. There at no. 2 was Chairs Missing. 1.. Pere Ubu - Modern Dance (Non-alignment Pact) 2.. CM 3.. Devo - Are We Not Men? (Mongoloid) 4.. Magazine - Real Life (Shot By Both Sides) 5.. PIL - Metal Box (Poptones) 6.. The Cure - Three Imaginary Boys (10:15 Saturday Night) 7.. Gang of Four - Entertainment (At Home He's A Tourist) 8.. Joy Division - Closer (Decades) 9.. Talking Heads - Remain In Light (Once In A Lifetime) 10.. Orange Juice - You Can't Hide Your Love Forever (Falling & Laughing) 11.. Hot Hot Heat - Make Up The Breakdown (Bandages) 12.. Franz Ferdinand - s/t (Take Me Out) >>>Modern Dance is pre-punk really, as most tracks were written before '76. Dub Housing would be more post-punk, being '78. Still, Devo were formed in '72 I read only yesterday... Orange Juice though, spare me. Can't see what there is to like in them, perhaps I need to have my ears cleaned. Never even heard of Hot Hot Heat - I'd have put This Heat's Deceit in there and The Fall's Dragnet but then we've all got our opinions on lists... Which is pretty much the whole point of them anyway! Surely anything by the Pixies would have a better claim than Franz Ferdinand... Bruno ********************************************************************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses. www.mimesweeper.com ********************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 17:21:14 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Monochromatic=20Man?= Subject: [idealcopy] Post-Punk Collection - Now with added Wire content I have these so I guess I'm only 3/4 post punk. > > 1.. Pere Ubu - Modern Dance (Non-alignment Pact) > 2.. CM > 3.. Devo - Are We Not Men? (Mongoloid) > 5.. PIL - Metal Box (Poptones) > 6.. The Cure - Three Imaginary Boys (10:15 > Saturday Night) > 7.. Gang of Four - Entertainment (At Home He's A > Tourist) > 8.. Joy Division - Closer (Decades) > 9.. Talking Heads - Remain In Light (Once In A > Lifetime) I just got the Made in Sheffield dvd and it is great! Makes me appreciate the whole post-punk movement. (much more creative and influential than punk or new wave) I can still listen to any of these post-punk records and enjoy them like the first time. Tell me, who has anything by Artery? These records are hard to come by. And there is a Wire reference in the MiS dvd. Mark Singleton recounts a tale of how Vice Versa's first gig was opening for Wire. Worth the price of the dvd just for this little tale... Have a good holiday weekend! wnd3 ____________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends today! Download Messenger Now http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/download/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 11:23:56 -0500 From: "dan bailey" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] 12 Steps To Building The Ultimate Post-Punk Colle ction >---Don't think anyone's mentioned the "12 Steps To Building The Ultimate >Post-Punk Collection" article in this months Q. There at no. 2 was Chairs >Missing. > > 1.. Pere Ubu - Modern Dance (Non-alignment Pact) > 2.. CM > 3.. Devo - Are We Not Men? (Mongoloid) > 4.. Magazine - Real Life (Shot By Both Sides) > 5.. PIL - Metal Box (Poptones) > 6.. The Cure - Three Imaginary Boys (10:15 Saturday Night) > 7.. Gang of Four - Entertainment (At Home He's A Tourist) > 8.. Joy Division - Closer (Decades) > 9.. Talking Heads - Remain In Light (Once In A Lifetime) > 10.. Orange Juice - You Can't Hide Your Love Forever (Falling & Laughing) > 11.. Hot Hot Heat - Make Up The Breakdown (Bandages) > 12.. Franz Ferdinand - s/t (Take Me Out) > >>>>Modern Dance is pre-punk really, as most tracks were written before '76. >Dub Housing would be more post-punk, being '78. Still, Devo were formed in >'72 I read only yesterday... Orange Juice though, spare me. Can't see what >there is to like in them, perhaps I need to have my ears cleaned. > >Never even heard of Hot Hot Heat - I'd have put This Heat's Deceit in there >and The Fall's Dragnet but then we've all got our opinions on lists... Which >is pretty much the whole point of them anyway! Surely anything by the Pixies >would have a better claim than Franz Ferdinand... > >Bruno a pretty good list, though surely the lack of any banshees & (as you indicate) fall -- &, to a lesser extent, mission of burma -- strikes me as a serious omission. i've long touted pere ubu as essential postpunk myself, including the stuff they were doing *before* the breakout of punk-as-we-know-it ... to me, it's a matter of style & feeling, rather than chronology. (not that i know anything whatsoever about art, but haven't we been seeing "postmodern" pieces for a loooong time, even though now that i look at my window things still seem pretty "modern"? well, actually they don't -- this *is* the middle of alabama -- but you get my meaning, i'm sure.) hot hot heat (pleasant enough, sort of comparable to early xtc fronted by early robert smith -- bandages *is* a standout single, one i've compared to a 96 tears for the new millennium ... saw 'em in atlanta about a year ago & found them decently engaging) & franz ferdinand do seem like sort of a last-minute addendum by someone who realized nearly too late that he'd better list someone who hasn't been around (&/or defunct) for 2 decades or more. dan ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 11:44:39 -0500 From: "dan bailey" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] 12 Steps To Building The Ultimate Post-Punk Collection >>> 1.. Pere Ubu - Modern Dance (Non-alignment Pact) > 2.. CM > 3.. Devo - Are We Not Men? (Mongoloid) > 4.. Magazine - Real Life (Shot By Both Sides) > 5.. PIL - Metal Box (Poptones) > 6.. The Cure - Three Imaginary Boys (10:15 Saturday Night) > 7.. Gang of Four - Entertainment (At Home He's A Tourist) > 8.. Joy Division - Closer (Decades) > 9.. Talking Heads - Remain In Light (Once In A Lifetime) > 10.. Orange Juice - You Can't Hide Your Love Forever (Falling &Laughing) > 11.. Hot Hot Heat - Make Up The Breakdown (Bandages) > 12.. Franz Ferdinand - s/t (Take Me Out)<< > >They always ruin these things by adding in new bands. Replace HHH & FF with >Josef K and The Pop Group and you might get a reasonable picture of the >arty/edgy/guitar end of post-punk. Surely also Fear of Music and Unknown Pleasures >rather than their follow-ups. definitely. any of the first 3 talking heads, in fact. & though i've already mentioned the fall, banshees & mission of burma, i'd also plump for inclusion of killing joke (first time i heard 'em, i thought i was hearing heavy metal filtered through disco, or perhaps vice-versa ... & i *loved* it), slits, raincoats, maybe the fire engines (note to self: track the fond cd down already, dammit), acr, perhaps the blue orchids, esg, possibly even the flying lizards ... dan And surely you can't compile a list like that >without XTC in some shape or form. They probably inform the current post-punk >revival as much as any band... > >> >>There's also a rather pointless Top 100 gigs ever, which suggests that >> either >> virtually every 'greatest gig ever' has taken place in London or means that >> the list was compiled by a bunch of southern softy journalists who need to >> get >> out of the capital occasionally.<< >> >> Or was someone's set in a field at Glastonbury. I suspect they watched those >> on telly and have therefore been able to turn the miserable festival >> experience into a quasi-religious one. > >Mark ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 11:45:59 -0500 From: "dan bailey" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] 12 Steps To Building The Ultimate Post-Punk Colle ction Orange Juice though, spare me. Can't see what >there is to like in them, perhaps I need to have my ears cleaned. maybe they meant josef k. all those scots look the same, you know. dan ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 13:29:57 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT - Phenomenal web site... Best way to waste Friday afternoon time in ages... http://www.smalltime.com/dictator.html Mark ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 18:40:53 +0100 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] 12 Steps To Building The Ultimate Post-Punk Collection > >They always ruin these things by adding in new bands. Replace HHH & FF > with > >Josef K and The Pop Group and you might get a reasonable picture of the > >arty/edgy/guitar end of post-punk. Surely also Fear of Music and Unknown > Pleasures > >rather than their follow-ups. > > definitely. any of the first 3 talking heads, in fact. I'm quite happy with RIL being there, but then I like all of the first four. I'm reading that This Must be the Place book at the mo, and enjoying the writers fairly idosyncratic style. > mentioned the fall, banshees & mission of burma, i'd also plump for > inclusion of killing joke (first time i heard 'em, i thought i was hearing > heavy metal filtered through disco, or perhaps vice-versa ... & i *loved* > it), slits, raincoats, maybe the fire engines (note to self: track the fond > cd down already, dammit), acr, perhaps the blue orchids, esg, possibly even > the flying lizards ... As Mark said, they spoil it by having recent albums in it, even though there's a definite link. I'd definitely have Kilimanjaro, Compass / Kumpas and Cut in mine, and possibly The Scream (haven't heard it in a long time). Keith PS np Akatombo - trace elements. I bought this for a mate for xmas. Asked him recently what he thought of it and said "Do you want the honest truth?". I thought as he'd liked 23 Skidoo at the time, he'd like it but apparently not!! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 13:43:11 EDT From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: [idealcopy] Ari....check out the LPD in NC hey Ari....The Legendary Pink Dots are playing in your neck of the woodsnext week....you should pop out and check them out...you will probably did the groovy horn playing of Mr. Niels VanHoornblower ....the best and most underrated/undervalued surrealist/apocalyptic/prog-rock/avant garde free-jazz group ever...tickets are usually cheap (around $12.00)....i saw them last week here in STL and they were in top form... SAT JUN 05 - Charlotte, NC -Tremont Music Hall SUN JUN 06 - Chapel Hill, NC - Room 4 let me know if you go.. RL ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 13:58:47 -0400 (EDT) From: Aaron Mandel Subject: RE: [idealcopy] 12 Steps To Building The Ultimate Post-Punk Colle ction On Fri, 28 May 2004, Clements, Bruno - BUP wrote: > Never even heard of Hot Hot Heat - I'd have put This Heat's Deceit in > there and The Fall's Dragnet but then we've all got our opinions on > lists... Which is pretty much the whole point of them anyway! Surely > anything by the Pixies would have a better claim than Franz Ferdinand... I vote for something by the Fall, and then The Homosexuals LP, since it's now been reissued and everything -- I can't remember, did they get talked up on the list when that come out earlier this year? a ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 14:29:24 EDT From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] 12 Steps To Building The Ultimate Post-Punk Collection In a message dated 28/05/2004 16:45:38 GMT Standard Time, MarkBursa@aol.com writes: > >>1.. Pere Ubu - Modern Dance (Non-alignment Pact) > 2.. CM > 3.. Devo - Are We Not Men? (Mongoloid) > 4.. Magazine - Real Life (Shot By Both Sides) > 5.. PIL - Metal Box (Poptones) > 6.. The Cure - Three Imaginary Boys (10:15 Saturday Night) > 7.. Gang of Four - Entertainment (At Home He's A Tourist) > 8.. Joy Division - Closer (Decades) > 9.. Talking Heads - Remain In Light (Once In A Lifetime) > 10.. Orange Juice - You Can't Hide Your Love Forever (Falling &Laughing) > 11.. Hot Hot Heat - Make Up The Breakdown (Bandages) > 12.. Franz Ferdinand - s/t (Take Me Out)<< > > They always ruin these things by adding in new bands. Replace HHH &FF with > Josef K and The Pop Group and you might get a reasonable picture of the > arty/edgy/guitar end of post-punk. //////sounds like a long lunch to put that lot together with a couple of sad late entries to show we're down with the kids. still , at least they didn't insult us with the yeah yeah yeahs. top 9 i guess most wouldn't argue with , the OJ album is pretty lame by comparison. wonder if they'd actually heard it or just copped the haircuts? Surely also Fear of Music and Unknown Pleasures > > rather than their follow-ups. //////maybe. but "decades" is such a great track i might forgive them And surely you can't compile a list like that > > without XTC in some shape or form. /////you certainly can ;-) They probably inform the current post-punk > > revival as much as any band... > > /////but only the duff acts? > > this heat or the slits are much better suggestions but i suppose a little > left field for Q. lovely to think of the robbie/beyonce massive getting a blast > of "deceit". p ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 14:03:34 -0500 From: "dan bailey" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] 12 Steps To Building The Ultimate Post-Punk Colle ction >On Fri, 28 May 2004, Clements, Bruno - BUP wrote: > >> Never even heard of Hot Hot Heat - I'd have put This Heat's Deceit in >> there and The Fall's Dragnet but then we've all got our opinions on >> lists... Which is pretty much the whole point of them anyway! Surely >> anything by the Pixies would have a better claim than Franz Ferdinand... > >I vote for something by the Fall, and then The Homosexuals LP, since it's >now been reissued and everything -- I can't remember, did they get talked >up on the list when that come out earlier this year? > >a has the *really* extensive reissue come out yet, i think from the hyped2death guy? the other one i bought when it appeared a couple of months ago, but this one is supposed to include several additional tracks. dan ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 20:18:18 +0100 From: "Clements, Bruno - BUP" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] 12 Steps To Building The Ultimate Post-Punk Coll ection The Homosexuals LP note reminded me I have the 12-inch single in my attic, which I remember being pretty good - I still have the vinyl but no way of playing it at the moment. Bruno Clements, Bruno - BUP wrote: > >> Never even heard of Hot Hot Heat - I'd have put This Heat's Deceit in >> there and The Fall's Dragnet but then we've all got our opinions on >> lists... > >I vote for something by the Fall, and then The Homosexuals LP, since it's >now been reissued and everything -- I can't remember, did they get talked >up on the list when that come out earlier this year? > >a has the *really* extensive reissue come out yet, i think from the hyped2death guy? the other one i bought when it appeared a couple of months ago, but this one is supposed to include several additional tracks. dan ********************************************************************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses. www.mimesweeper.com ********************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 15:26:00 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] 12 Steps To Building The Ultimate Post-Punk Collection > >>has the *really* extensive reissue come out yet, i think from the > hyped2death guy? the other one i bought when it appeared a couple of months > ago, but this one is supposed to include several additional tracks.<< Imminent, apparently. So who knows when ;-) It's a 3-CD box, with 81 tracks. Every known track apparently, and a 'proper' release, not CDRs like the rest of H2D's excellent archive. Mark ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V7 #160 *******************************