From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V7 #110 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Thursday, April 8 2004 Volume 07 : Number 110 Today's Subjects: ----------------- RE: [idealcopy] Fall essentials? [Adrian Cooke ] [idealcopy] RE: Wire boot on eBay [kevin eden ] Re: [idealcopy] RE: Wire boot on eBay [Ari Britt ] Re: [idealcopy] Fall essentials? ["Keith Astbury" ] Re: [idealcopy] Fall essentials? ["DAN L ROSE" ] Re: [idealcopy] RE: Wire boot on eBay ["j.hobson" ] [idealcopy] Re: Wilco link... [Ari Britt ] Re: [idealcopy] RE: Wire boot on eBay/reply to Andrew [Ari Britt Subject: RE: [idealcopy] Fall essentials? My favourites are: Container Drivers & Guest Informant Adrian n.p. weird mix cd that Mark Kershaw from System records in Bradford did for me! - -----Original Message----- From: Andrew Walkingshaw [mailto:andrew-wire@lexical.org.uk] Sent: 07 April 2004 00:47 To: idealcopy@smoe.org Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Fall essentials? On Tue, Apr 06, 2004 at 06:30:22PM -0400, MarkBursa@aol.com wrote: > > >>Perhaps we can agree on a great Fall song. 'How I wrote Elastic Man', > > everyone?<< > > A fine single for sure, but not as good as those before or after it (Fiery > Jack & Totally Wired). > > How about The Classical as a truly great Fall song (and another one that has > featured in recent sets). I have very little Fall (Early Singles + TNSG), but can I put in votes for "I Am Damo Suzuki", "Rowche Rumble", and "Bingo-Master's Break-Out!" anyway? (Oh, and "Spoilt Victorian Child", but it wasn't a single I think...) - - A - -- Earth Sciences, University of Cambridge http://www.esc.cam.ac.uk/ Programme Controller, CUR1350 http://www.cur1350.co.uk/ email: andrew@lexical.org.uk Random Walk ::: Wednesday, 11pm ::: cur1350.co.uk ::: is this music? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 02:31:52 -0700 (PDT) From: kevin eden Subject: [idealcopy] RE: Wire boot on eBay I was a little pertubed to see Philip Blakeney's report of receiving this CD from ebay. I can own up to being the originator of this. However, and a big however, it was copied to a few select people, with Wire permission and the STRICT understanding that it went no further. You know who you are. Thats all I can say, except that I am extremely let down by that trust being ignored. kevin eden http://www.wireviews.com/wmo/index.html "dreams that money can buy" Yahoo! Small Business $15K Web Design Giveaway - Enter today ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 03:57:03 -0700 (PDT) From: Ari Britt Subject: Re: [idealcopy] RE: Wire boot on eBay I'm somewhat suprised that your upset Kevin,y'know good music just has a way of wanting to escape and be out there for ALL to enjoy,now it IS out there why don't YOU offer it,I'd buy it.........as I'm sure many would,I never owned any music I loved that I didn't want to turn friends on to and,if it ain't available,guess what? Ari kevin eden wrote: I was a little pertubed to see Philip Blakeney's report of receiving this CD from ebay. I can own up to being the originator of this. However, and a big however, it was copied to a few select people, with Wire permission and the STRICT understanding that it went no further. You know who you are. Thats all I can say, except that I am extremely let down by that trust being ignored. kevin eden http://www.wireviews.com/wmo/index.html "dreams that money can buy" Yahoo! Small Business $15K Web Design Giveaway - Enter today Yahoo! Small Business $15K Web Design Giveaway - Enter today ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 04:01:40 -0700 (PDT) From: Ari Britt Subject: [idealcopy] Fwd:O.T Wilco/ Listen to A ghost is born STARTS slow and quiet...........Ari Wilco World wrote:To: threeduggaduggas@yahoo.com From: Wilco World Subject: Listen to A ghost is born Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2004 21:58:08 -0700 wanna hear the new record? click here to listen to "A ghost is born". see you soon. Wilco HQ Update Profile | Unsubscribe | Confirm Yahoo! Small Business $15K Web Design Giveaway - Enter today ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 08:10:15 -0400 From: "Eric Klaver" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] portrait of a quitter... Ari... I told myself for about 6 months I 'ought' to stop and one day decided the cig. I was smoking would be my last,it was,I was amazed at how easy it was to stop.there ya go,will power I guess. IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Congrats Ari. There are a number of people I know that I wish would do the same. Eric in Toronto (where there is a ban in restaurants and the one in bars is coming soon) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2004 09:02:14 -0500 From: "DAN L ROSE" Subject: [idealcopy] Fall essentials? Speaking of such, is anybody attending the upcoming Fall concert in Atlanta? Will I be alone? Dan - -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by the CSU Email Gateway, and is believed to be clean. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 14:35:42 +0100 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Fall essentials? > Really like it too.How about Totally Wired as a much loved Fall tune. Definitely!! (Love Prinz too!) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 15:14:30 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Monochromatic=20Man?= Subject: Re: [idealcopy] RE: Wire boot on eBay Yeah, I'd like it too, but I'm sure it was given as a gift. Not to be sold. That kinda betrays the trust of people on the list. We are here to share not rip off others with material you do not have permission to sell. I am happy to share anything I have and wouldn't dream of charging. Selling bootlegs of this is terrible! wnd3 --- Ari Britt wrote: > I'm somewhat suprised that your upset Kevin,y'know > good music just has a way of wanting to escape and > be out there for ALL to enjoy,now it IS out there > why don't YOU offer it,I'd buy it.........as I'm > sure many would,I never owned any music I loved that > I didn't want to turn friends on to and,if it ain't > available,guess what? Ari > kevin eden wrote: > I was a little pertubed to see Philip Blakeney's > report of receiving this CD from ebay. > I can own up to being the originator of this. > However, and a big however, it was copied to a few > select people, with Wire permission and the STRICT > understanding that it went no further. > You know who you are. > Thats all I can say, except that I am extremely let > down by that trust being ignored. ===== Edward? Will Heaven be like Swansea? Yes, Tubbs...only bigger. ____________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends today! Download Messenger Now http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/download/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 15:23:22 +0100 From: Andrew Walkingshaw Subject: Re: [idealcopy] RE: Wire boot on eBay On Wed, Apr 07, 2004 at 03:57:03AM -0700, Ari Britt wrote: > I'm somewhat suprised that your upset Kevin,y'know good music just > has a way of wanting to escape and be out there for ALL to enjoy,now > it IS out there why don't YOU offer it,I'd buy it.........as I'm > sure many would,I never owned any music I loved that I didn't want > to turn friends on to and,if it ain't available,guess what? Ari Surely the wishes of the artists have to be paramount? If nothing else, it's downright rude and disrepectful to go against the wishes of the band. Their work, their right to do whatever they please with it... - -- Earth Sciences, University of Cambridge http://www.esc.cam.ac.uk/ Programme Controller, CUR1350 http://www.cur1350.co.uk/ email: andrew@lexical.org.uk Random Walk ::: Wednesday, 11pm ::: cur1350.co.uk ::: is this music? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 09:31:56 -0500 From: "Jack Alberson" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] RE: Wire boot on eBay I agree with you on this, ESPECIALLY in a case where Kevin has worked mercilessly to gain their trust and in his kindness to a select few others is denied the same respect. I sincerely hope this doesn't get him in trouble with the Wire camp--look at what Kevin has done for us, with Everybody Loves A History and through WMO he has been fundamental to the continued interest in one of our favorite bands. To him we all owe a massive debt. Jack - -----Original Message----- From: owner-idealcopy@smoe.org [mailto:owner-idealcopy@smoe.org] On Behalf Of Monochromatic Man Sent: Wednesday, April 07, 2004 9:15 AM To: Ideal Copy Subject: Re: [idealcopy] RE: Wire boot on eBay Yeah, I'd like it too, but I'm sure it was given as a gift. Not to be sold. That kinda betrays the trust of people on the list. We are here to share not rip off others with material you do not have permission to sell. I am happy to share anything I have and wouldn't dream of charging. Selling bootlegs of this is terrible! wnd3 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2004 10:38:54 -0400 From: HeySean@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] RE: Wire boot on eBay I never post in this group anymore, for a variety of reasons, but let me say this: exclusivity sucks. no no no no Mr Suit ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 17:12:21 GMT From: P J Kane Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Fall essentials? << Speaking of such, is anybody attending the upcoming Fall concert in Atlanta? >> darnit, it's on the 16th. i am going to the symphony that night. Jean-Yves Thibaudet performing MESSIAEN's Turangalnla-symphonie -- any comments on this from the classical crowd? oh well. maybe someday i will be able to see the Fall... << Will I be alone? >> considering that the last time they playe the Echo it sold out, i doubt it! (Seriously though -- i think Tracers is going. ask her....) PJK please don't hate me because i can't type..... - --- All the cool kids are doing it: HTTP://www.EvilSponge.org ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2004 13:25:41 -0500 From: "DAN L ROSE" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Fall essentials? I'm seeing Turengalia on Saturday so's I can see the Fall. There are three performances. This is a must see sort of thing. Messian's best in my opinion. A truly wonderful piece that is very rarely performed. Dan Date sent: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 17:12:21 GMT To: idealcopy@smoe.org Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Fall essentials? From: P J Kane > << Speaking of such, is anybody attending the upcoming Fall concert > in Atlanta? >> > > darnit, it's on the 16th. i am going to the symphony that night. Jean-Yves Thibaudet performing MESSIAEN's Turangalnla-symphonie -- any comments on this from the classical crowd? > > oh well. maybe someday i will be able to see the Fall... > > << Will I be alone? >> > > considering that the last time they playe the Echo it sold out, i doubt it! > > (Seriously though -- i think Tracers is going. ask her....) > > PJK > > please don't hate me because i can't type..... > --- > All the cool kids are doing it: > HTTP://www.EvilSponge.org > > -- > This message has been scanned for viruses and > dangerous content by the CSU Email Gateway, and is > believed to be clean. > - -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by the CSU Email Gateway, and is believed to be clean. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 20:44:28 +0100 From: "j.hobson" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] RE: Wire boot on eBay - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andrew Walkingshaw" To: Sent: Wednesday, April 07, 2004 3:23 PM Subject: Re: [idealcopy] RE: Wire boot on eBay > > Surely the wishes of the artists have to be paramount? If nothing > else, it's downright rude and disrepectful to go against the wishes > of the band. Their work, their right to do whatever they please with > it... > Totally agree except that with widespread illegal downloading and ebay being used as a front for 'stolen goods' there has been a shift in people's morality on this. Respecting other peoples rights is no longer important. Just try and board a bus or train and sharpen your elbows. The person selling it thinks they are being very clever. But I doubt their twenty pieces of silver will bring them much joy. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 14:04:15 -0700 (PDT) From: Ari Britt Subject: [idealcopy] Re: Wilco link... go here........... http://wilcoworld.net/ghost/index.html Ari Yahoo! Small Business $15K Web Design Giveaway - Enter today ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 14:09:08 -0700 (PDT) From: Ari Britt Subject: Re: [idealcopy] RE: Wire boot on eBay/reply to Andrew Andrew Walkingshaw wrote:On Wed, Apr 07, 2004 at 03:57:03AM -0700, Ari Britt wrote: > I'm somewhat suprised that your upset Kevin,y'know good music just > has a way of wanting to escape and be out there for ALL to enjoy,now > it IS out there why don't YOU offer it,I'd buy it.........as I'm > sure many would,I never owned any music I loved that I didn't want > to turn friends on to and,if it ain't available,guess what? Ari Surely the wishes of the artists have to be paramount? If nothing else, it's downright rude and disrepectful to go against the wishes of the band. Their work, their right to do whatever they please with it... - -- I agree to a point,but talking of 'fair',is it 'fair' for any artist to deny stuff to thier fans once it IS out there,that's MY point........Ari Yahoo! Small Business $15K Web Design Giveaway - Enter today ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 19:21:28 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] RE: Wire boot on eBay/reply to Andrew > >>-- I agree to a point,but talking of 'fair',is it 'fair' for any artist > to deny stuff to thier fans once it IS out there,that's MY point........Ari<< > Jeez Ari, you don't half talk bollocks sometimes. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 17:15:27 -0700 (PDT) From: Ari Britt Subject: Re: [idealcopy] RE: Wire boot on eBay/reply to Andrew MarkBursa@aol.com wrote: >>-- I agree to a point,but talking of 'fair',is it 'fair' for any artist to deny stuff to thier fans once it IS out there,that's MY point........Ari<< Jeez Ari, you don't half talk bollocks sometimes. Mark Why? if it IS out there,and I keep emphasizing this,why not shrug one's shoulders and say,what the fuck,the horse has bolted,WHY NOT MAKE IT 'LEGAL",the group/band benefits,the fans benefit,exclusivism does suck,sorry mark but there you have it,don't tell me that you disagree with that, We Are Tal;king About Art Here,should the world be denied such 'treasures',why is Robert Smith re-releasing his stuff? because The Fans Want It,why did Shriekback do the C.D recently discussed on this list? because The Fans Wanted It,if you truly Are an Artist is it 'right and proper' to give to the few and deny the masses,no matter it be music,a play,a painting,or a piece of crap,I think you're missing my point Mark.Ari Yahoo! Small Business $15K Web Design Giveaway - Enter today ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 20:29:49 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] RE: Wire boot on eBay/reply to Andrew > Why? if it IS out there,and I keep emphasizing this,why not shrug one's > shoulders and say,what the fuck,the horse has bolted,WHY NOT MAKE IT > 'LEGAL",the group/band benefits,the fans benefit,exclusivism does suck,sorry mark but > there you have it,don't tell me that you disagree with that, We Are Tal;king > About Art Here,should the world be denied such 'treasures',why is Robert > Smith re-releasing his stuff? because The Fans Want It,why did Shriekback do the > C.D recently discussed on this list? because The Fans Wanted It,if you truly > Are an Artist is it 'right and proper' to give to the few and deny the > masses,no matter it be music,a play,a painting,or a piece of crap,I think you're > missing my point Mark It's all about quality control. Wire have been very good in allowing Kevin and others to reissue their back catalogue, and more besides. But some things - like those old demos - were clearly deemed unfit for public consumption. Clearly NOT the same issue as the Cure's boxing up of previously released b-sides, or a band making a new album because its fans asked them to. What is released - and to whom - should OF COURSE be the artist's prerogative. Meanwhile enjoy your copies of Behind the Curtain, Turns & Strokes and Coatings - Wire have already released more back pages than most. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 01:31:45 +0100 From: Andrew Walkingshaw Subject: Re: [idealcopy] RE: Wire boot on eBay/reply to Andrew On Wed, Apr 07, 2004 at 02:09:08PM -0700, Ari Britt wrote: > -- I agree to a point,but talking of 'fair',is it 'fair' for any > artist to deny stuff to thier fans once it IS out there, I'd argue that it is fair for any artist to decide what of what they do is for general release and what is for private consumption: a demo or similar distributed to a very small _private_ group of people under strict instructions to go no further should *go* no further. I think it's morally and ethically wrong to breach someone's trust like that. I don't know the rights or wrongs of this exact situation, so if any of the people involved are reading this, please don't take what I'm saying as a comment on this bootleg: I don't know the situation so I'm not qualified to comment on that. I'm talking entirely in generalities. - - Andrew - -- Earth Sciences, University of Cambridge http://www.esc.cam.ac.uk/ Programme Controller, CUR1350 http://www.cur1350.co.uk/ email: andrew@lexical.org.uk Random Walk ::: Wednesday, 11pm ::: cur1350.co.uk ::: is this music? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 17:42:45 -0700 (PDT) From: Ari Britt Subject: Re: [idealcopy] RE: Wire boot on eBay/reply to Andrew We seem to be arguing in circles here ................A Andrew Walkingshaw wrote:On Wed, Apr 07, 2004 at 02:09:08PM -0700, Ari Britt wrote: > -- I agree to a point,but talking of 'fair',is it 'fair' for any > artist to deny stuff to thier fans once it IS out there, I'd argue that it is fair for any artist to decide what of what they do is for general release and what is for private consumption: a demo or similar distributed to a very small _private_ group of people under strict instructions to go no further should *go* no further. I think it's morally and ethically wrong to breach someone's trust like that. I don't know the rights or wrongs of this exact situation, so if any of the people involved are reading this, please don't take what I'm saying as a comment on this bootleg: I don't know the situation so I'm not qualified to comment on that. I'm talking entirely in generalities. - - Andrew - -- Earth Sciences, University of Cambridge http://www.esc.cam.ac.uk/ Programme Controller, CUR1350 http://www.cur1350.co.uk/ email: andrew@lexical.org.uk Random Walk ::: Wednesday, 11pm ::: cur1350.co.uk ::: is this music? Yahoo! Small Business $15K Web Design Giveaway - Enter today ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 01:55:46 +0100 From: Andrew Walkingshaw Subject: Re: [idealcopy] RE: Wire boot on eBay/reply to Andrew On Wed, Apr 07, 2004 at 05:42:45PM -0700, Ari Britt wrote: > We seem to be arguing in circles here ................A I don't think so; Mark and I are in pretty much full agreement in fact, I think. (I was writing this reply when Mark's email arrived, so I only read his reply after I'd sent mine.) I know I'd be annoyed if I entrusted someone on this list with some of my work _on the understanding it went no further_, only to find someone hawking it on eBay - and if that would upset me, it's at the least hypocritical not to pay others' work the same respect. (The fact that no-one in their right mind would want anything I'm involved with is, of course, entirely incidental...) - - Andrew - -- Earth Sciences, University of Cambridge http://www.esc.cam.ac.uk/ Programme Controller, CUR1350 http://www.cur1350.co.uk/ email: andrew@lexical.org.uk Random Walk ::: Wednesday, 11pm ::: cur1350.co.uk ::: is this music? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 21:12:32 EDT From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] RE: Wire boot on eBay/reply to Andrew In a message dated 4/7/04 8:02:46 PM Central Daylight Time, andrew-wire@lexical.org.uk writes: > (The fact that no-one in their right mind would want anything I'm > involved with is, of course, entirely incidental...) > > - Andrew > > are you involved with anything that has to with the wearing of leather trousers? RL ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V7 #110 *******************************