From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V7 #93 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Wednesday, March 24 2004 Volume 07 : Number 093 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [idealcopy] Re: idealcopy-digest V7 #92 [rys01ajc@gold.ac.uk] Re: [idealcopy] speaking of kj ... [PaulRabjohn@aol.com] [idealcopy] OT: RE: speaking of kj ... [Ian Calder > He said, "Glad you like Wire - I can recommend 'On Returning' -- a > really good comp with pretty much all their (old) good stuff on it. I > don't know their new stuff." > > What are your thoughts? > > anastasia > This is a fine compilation but unless you're on a tight budget or remain unconvinced by the band you really need to get the three original albums, "Pink Flag", "Chairs Missing" and "154". In the UK the most recent re-issues contain appropriate bonus tracks, sound good and are well presented as well as usually selling for a budget price. As for the later stuff - I don't know if you were on the list to witness the recent round of "not sure about 'Manscape' " debate but this and "Drill" often come in for mixed reviews. Otherwise you won't hear much unkind comment about Wire's output. Tony. Tony. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 05:21:34 -0500 From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] speaking of kj ... well dan , the band you are referring to is undoubtedly red beat. i think 2 of howard jones brothers were in the band , but i'm pretty sure not howie himself (as if.....). when howie's career took off i think the brothers ended up in his touring band , somehow i suspect no red beat numbers were in the set. first RB single (on malicious damage) is really good , there were two more on their own label maybe not quite so great. in a bizarre piece of synchronicity i got hold of a copy of their peel session last saturday , so great timing for your mail dan. ski patrol did 4 singles , the 2 on malicious damage were very good. singer ian lowery then had a long career as king blank and a solo artist , usually one of his albums in most bargain bins :-) p ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 10:17:55 -0000 From: Ian Calder Subject: [idealcopy] OT: RE: speaking of kj ... There was a band called 1919 that Peel played and compared to KJ, would have been 1982 I think - I bought that first single and it was similar, but don't know anything about their line up. Ian Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 00:32:38 -0600 From: "dan bailey" Subject: [idealcopy] speaking of kj ... a question by mr mick mercer in another forum -- What was the British band (I realise I shpould know) that were a little like Killing Joke or Ritual when they first started, and had a single out? They were well regarded and it was only recvently I heard that the dreaded Howard Jones was in the band! most obvious kj-esque bands i can think of that "had a single out" & perhaps little or nothing more would be ski patrol & red beat ... amebix often delved into that sound but certainly had nothing to do with howard jones & were fairly prolific besides. dan ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 22:12:44 +1100 (EST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Phillip=20Blakeney?= Subject: [idealcopy] legendary art Wire Mk 1 Paul said: "Art-Punk" as applied to Wire, as to me it has a slight air of pretention about it...Is it a label the band have applied to themselves, or an epithet coined by music journo's looking for a hook to hang them on?) I would think, as with most labels, it was most likely applied by someone else.." - ----> I note that posteverything calls Wire "The legendary "art" combo", so I would think the band encourage the art punk term themselves. Anastasia asked: "I have been fortunate to be in contact with Steve Fellows of the Comsat Angels. I told him about seeing WIRE and how they blew me away. He said, "Glad you like Wire - I can recommend 'On Returning' -- a really good comp with pretty much all their (old) good stuff on it. I don't know their new stuff." What are your thoughts?" - -----> I think it is a mistake to listen to Wire Mk 1 for the first time via a compilation. This is very much a case of the whole being greater than a great set of parts. Pink Flag in particular works better IN ORDER. And, the progresion to Chairs Missing, and then to 154 is part of the fascination of Wire- the way they transcended and subverted the limited "punk" foundations. In fact you probably should get hold of the two songs from the Roxy compilation (Lowdown and 12XU) to get the full panorama. So Anastasia, don't be tight!- buy all three and listen to them in order. (and PLEASE keep that copy of 'Turns and Strokes' sealed for a while yet!!!) Phillip from Australia - --------------------------------- Find local movie times and trailers on Yahoo! Movies. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 22:13:49 +1100 (EST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Phillip=20Blakeney?= Subject: [idealcopy] legendary art Wire Mk 1 Paul said: "Art-Punk" as applied to Wire, as to me it has a slight air of pretention about it...Is it a label the band have applied to themselves, or an epithet coined by music journo's looking for a hook to hang them on?) I would think, as with most labels, it was most likely applied by someone else.." - ----> I note that posteverything calls Wire "The legendary "art" combo", so I would think the band encourage the art punk term themselves. Anastasia asked: "I have been fortunate to be in contact with Steve Fellows of the Comsat Angels. I told him about seeing WIRE and how they blew me away. He said, "Glad you like Wire - I can recommend 'On Returning' -- a really good comp with pretty much all their (old) good stuff on it. I don't know their new stuff." What are your thoughts?" - -----> I think it is a mistake to listen to Wire Mk 1 for the first time via a compilation. This is very much a case of the whole being greater than a great set of parts. Pink Flag in particular works better IN ORDER. And, the progresion to Chairs Missing, and then to 154 is part of the fascination of Wire- the way they transcended and subverted the limited "punk" foundations. In fact you probably should get hold of the two songs from the Roxy compilation (Lowdown and 12XU) to get the full panorama. So Anastasia, don't be tight!- buy all three and listen to them in order. (and PLEASE keep that copy of 'Turns and Strokes' sealed for a while yet!!!) Phillip from Australia - --------------------------------- Find local movie times and trailers on Yahoo! Movies. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 03:36:14 -0800 (PST) From: Ari Britt Subject: [idealcopy] O.T: The (new0 Incredible String Band Tour... incrediblestringband - spring tour mike heron, clive palmer, lawson dando, fluff, gavin dickie April 04 16 Edinburgh, Queens Hall 0131 668 2019 17 Morecambe, Platform 01524 582803 20 Wrexham, Central Station 01978 264940 21 Leeds, City Varieties 0113 245 5570 22 Bristol, Fleece & Firkin 0117 929 9008 23 Sheffield, Boardwalk 01142 227979 25 London, Astoria 08701 500 044 27 Wolverhampton, Robin 2 01384 637747 29 Southampton, Brook 0238 055 5366 30 Swindon, Arts Centre 01793 614837 if anyone goes I'd love an 'opinion' Ari Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 12:36:12 +0000 From: "Jason Rogers" Subject: [idealcopy] RE: New Order question >Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 15:19:43 -0700 >From: "Paul Ye" >Subject: [idealcopy] RE: New Order question > >Jason, I am curious to know the track listing when you get it finished. >Thanks in advance. Alas, the tracklisting of my CD-R mix is not as creative as one might think, as the purpose was to introduce New Order to someone unfamiliar with them. Since Substance was a great starting point for me many years ago, as it is for most New Order fans, I mainly took the tracklisting off of Substance and tweaked it somewhat to include other songs that I liked. 1. Ceremony 2. Everything's Gone Green 3. Temptation (1987) 4. Blue Monday 5. Confusion (1987) 6. Perfect Kiss (extended) 7. Lonesome Tonight 8. Broken Promise 9. Bizarre Love Triangle (extended) 10. True Faith 11. Fine Time 12. Regret 13. Crystal (album version) 14. Every Little Counts It touches on the big singles, New Order's DJ tendencies ("Confusion", "Fine Time"), their guitar-leaning Velvet Underground tendencies ("Broken Promise), and, finally, their skewed sense of humor ("Every Little Counts"). I included the 1987 versions of "Temptation" and "Confusion" mainly for space reasons (this CD-R is 79 minutes, 30 seconds long), but also for the fact that these are good remakes...I've always been torn between which "Temptation" I like better. As for the Substance tracklist, I left off a few songs: "Thieves Like Us" is a great track, but the lyrics have always gotten a bit on my nerves. "Sub-culture": I don't like the Substance version of this track and think that the Low-Life version is much better...but it's not one of my favorite New Order songs either way. "Shellshock" is a good track, but it's so...it's so 1980's. I wanted to include the John Peel sessions version of "5 8 6", "Chosen Time" from Movement, and "Ran" from Technique, but didn't have enough room for those three. Thanks to everyone who replied about the "W W W R L" on "Confusion". The Harlem radio station/Afrika Bambaata/Arthur Baker connection makes sense. Jason _________________________________________________________________ MSN Toolbar provides one-click access to Hotmail from any Web page  FREE download! http://clk.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200413ave/direct/01/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 11:10:32 EST From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: [idealcopy] Electrelane live caught the bus with seconds to spare....rode 40 minutes and arrived at a favorite local haunt known as The Rocket Bar with 5 minutes to spare....the gals of Electrelane were ready to rock... the set started off with a couple of songs that sounded strangely electroclash-like in nature...must be new songs because i didn't recognize them from the two lps: Rock it to the Moon and Power Out then they settled into much more familiar territory....the ghosts of Neu! hovered throughout the room....lots of fuzzy, churning freakout stop-start twin-guitar and motorik drumming...i would have fallen into a trance were it not for the occasionally annoying vocal spurts....the vocalist vaguely reminded me of Rosie Cuckston (sp?) of Pram...lots off-key, out of tune, yalps and purrs.... actually, as much as i tried i could not stop think of Neu! and of course Stereolab and Pram.... it was a very good show (besides the vocals at times) and much better than sitting around watching the RAW/Smackdown Wrestling Lottery.... however, i was a bit disappointed by the fact that that Electrelane was touted as the headliners of this triple bill (along side Paris, Texas and Ted Leo/Pharmacists) and this was not the case at all.....after a 35 minutes set Electrelane was finished to make way for the NYC crap-rock of TedLeo/Rx .....which the idiots here in St. Louis were eating up (because anything from L.A. or NYC HAS to be cool) i left to catch the last bus outta downtown .... RL np - Tone Language "Patience is the Key" (Korm Plastics) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 11:23:39 EST From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Kraftwerk in Glasgow In a message dated 3/18/04 5:26:34 PM Central Standard Time, ian@ibarrett.fsnet.co.uk writes: > Anybody else here in Glasgow for Kraftwerk? I have to say I'm not a massive > fan (I'd go as far as to say they're overrated) bite your tongue! .....for shame for shame.. RL ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 11:09:33 -0600 From: "Jack Alberson" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] legendary art Wire Mk 1 In the spirit of good debate, I disagree with this. My first real experience with Wire was through the On Returning compilation and that certainly didn't limit my appreciation of Wire OR the first three records once I got round to hearing them. If anything, the compilation gave me a more broad definition of those early years and made the impact of their quick evolution all the more apparent. After that, I ended up finding a copy of 154 used and afterwards ordered the first two. I think On Returning helped me to appreciate the albums as parts of the whole that is Mk 1 Wire far more easily. In addition, the live '12XU' is cracking good (and since it's from the Roxy comp this comp is all the better). I certainly wouldn't start with Turns and Strokes, though--this I agree with, Phillip!! ;) - -----> I think it is a mistake to listen to Wire Mk 1 for the first time via a compilation. This is very much a case of the whole being greater than a great set of parts. Pink Flag in particular works better IN ORDER. And, the progresion to Chairs Missing, and then to 154 is part of the fascination of Wire- the way they transcended and subverted the limited "punk" foundations. In fact you probably should get hold of the two songs from the Roxy compilation (Lowdown and 12XU) to get the full panorama. So Anastasia, don't be tight!- buy all three and listen to them in order. (and PLEASE keep that copy of 'Turns and Strokes' sealed for a while yet!!!) Phillip from Australia - --------------------------------- Find local movie times and trailers on Yahoo! Movies. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 21:40:51 -0000 From: "Keith Knight" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] O.T: The (new0 Incredible String Band Tour... Well, Mr Astbury could pop down to the Wrexham gig... One of those bands who have passed me by despite the obvious influence on all sorts of good things (including the mighty Alasdair Roberts). But the little I have heard sounds dated - am I wrong? Another the Keith [ Interesting to see Morecambe on the gigging map these days, a seaside town very much gone to seed - there was never anyone on there when I lived a few miles down the road in Lancaster in the 70s - recent posts refer ] - -----Original Message----- From: owner-idealcopy@smoe.org [mailto:owner-idealcopy@smoe.org] On Behalf Of Ari Britt Sent: 23 March 2004 11:36 To: idealcopy@smoe.org Subject: [idealcopy] O.T: The (new0 Incredible String Band Tour... incrediblestringband - spring tour mike heron, clive palmer, lawson dando, fluff, gavin dickie April 04 16 Edinburgh, Queens Hall 0131 668 2019 17 Morecambe, Platform 01524 582803 20 Wrexham, Central Station 01978 264940 21 Leeds, City Varieties 0113 245 5570 22 Bristol, Fleece & Firkin 0117 929 9008 23 Sheffield, Boardwalk 01142 227979 25 London, Astoria 08701 500 044 27 Wolverhampton, Robin 2 01384 637747 29 Southampton, Brook 0238 055 5366 30 Swindon, Arts Centre 01793 614837 if anyone goes I'd love an 'opinion' Ari Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 21:45:26 -0000 From: "Keith Knight" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] Jesus out despite spirited fightback Yes, indeed, bad luck Andrew. Such is my devotion to the cause that despite being out last night, I taped it and forbade my kids (to whom you are now something of a TV folk-hero, up there with Sabrina, Buffy and The Brothers Garcia) to tell me the result, which drove them mad. I've never heard of Tope either. Although I can thoroughly recommend 'Drumming' - one of Reich's finest pieces. I shall miss young Urquhart's hair too. Another the Keith - -----Original Message----- From: owner-idealcopy@smoe.org [mailto:owner-idealcopy@smoe.org] On Behalf Of sean bowen Sent: 22 March 2004 21:33 To: ideal copy Subject: [idealcopy] Jesus out despite spirited fightback Wow, what a nail-biting finish ! And what a heroic performance from Brainbox Walkingshaw ! Rapid Reaction Force, Eratosthenes' Sieve, Aquaplaning, John Irving, spherical surface area, and one which I didn't even understand (to which the answer was "tope" or something). Such breadth of knowledge. And there wasn't even a Wire question ! IdealCopyists who listen to Radio 3 must have been swearing at the telly when Jesus couldn't get Steve Reich's "Drumming". So near to glory, and yet so far...... Well done Andrew. Hope you enjoyed it all. Sean. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 22:19:36 +0000 From: Andrew Walkingshaw Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Jesus out despite spirited fightback On Tue, Mar 23, 2004 at 09:45:26PM -0000, Keith Knight wrote: > Yes, indeed, bad luck Andrew. Such is my devotion to the cause that > despite being out last night, I taped it and forbade my kids (to whom > you are now something of a TV folk-hero, up there with Sabrina, Buffy > and The Brothers Garcia) to tell me the result, which drove them mad. Scary! I managed three episodes, so: Andy Warhol, up _yours_. I got ninety minutes. :-) > I've never heard of Tope either. Although I can thoroughly recommend > 'Drumming' - one of Reich's finest pieces. Taupe, as immortalised in at least one of the "Beattie" BT ads of the 80s, I think - or that's where I know it from. Remembering TV ads from when I was about six is slightly disturbing. > > I shall miss young Urquhart's hair too. Sam has a *mighty* 'fro. Thanks to everyone for the support/congratulations/well-wishes. I hope it was at least a pleasant diversion. - - Andrew - -- Earth Sciences, University of Cambridge http://www.esc.cam.ac.uk/ Programme Controller, CUR1350 http://www.cur1350.co.uk/ email: andrew@lexical.org.uk Random Walk ::: Wednesday, 11pm ::: cur1350.co.uk ::: is this music? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 22:19:48 -0000 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] O.T: The (new0 Incredible String Band Tour... Subject: RE: [idealcopy] O.T: The (new0 Incredible String Band Tour... > Well, Mr Astbury could pop down to the Wrexham gig... Oy!! Actually, they passed me by, too. I did entertain the idea as I've read comparisons with Ty Rex, but I know for a fact I can't make it. K ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 17:32:33 EST From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: [idealcopy] wire on beeb website.......... http://www.bbc.co.uk/music/classicpop/reviews/wire_send.shtml ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 23:18:36 -0000 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Electrelane live Didn't know you liked Electrelane, Robert. Sounds like you got both LP's - if not let me know. I've also got 2 eps if you're interested. Also got some new stuff... The Notwist remix LP - Different Cars & Trains Stereolab - Margarine Revolutionaries - Black Ash Dub Keith - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2004 4:10 PM Subject: [idealcopy] Electrelane live > caught the bus with seconds to spare....rode 40 minutes and arrived at a > favorite local haunt known as The Rocket Bar with 5 minutes to spare....the gals > of Electrelane were ready to rock... > > the set started off with a couple of songs that sounded strangely > electroclash-like in nature...must be new songs because i didn't recognize them from the > two lps: Rock it to the Moon and Power Out > > then they settled into much more familiar territory....the ghosts of Neu! > hovered throughout the room....lots of fuzzy, churning freakout stop-start > twin-guitar and motorik drumming...i would have fallen into a trance were it not for > the occasionally annoying vocal spurts....the vocalist vaguely reminded me of > Rosie Cuckston (sp?) of Pram...lots off-key, out of tune, yalps and purrs.... > > actually, as much as i tried i could not stop think of Neu! and of course > Stereolab and Pram.... > > it was a very good show (besides the vocals at times) and much better than > sitting around watching the RAW/Smackdown Wrestling Lottery.... > > however, i was a bit disappointed by the fact that that Electrelane was > touted as the headliners of this triple bill (along side Paris, Texas and Ted > Leo/Pharmacists) and this was not the case at all.....after a 35 minutes set > Electrelane was finished to make way for the NYC crap-rock of TedLeo/Rx .....which > the idiots here in St. Louis were eating up (because anything from L.A. or NYC > HAS to be cool) > > i left to catch the last bus outta downtown .... > > RL > np - Tone Language "Patience is the Key" (Korm Plastics) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 15:57:13 -0800 (PST) From: Ari Britt Subject: RE: [idealcopy] O.T: The (new) Incredible String Band Tour... Keith Knight wrote: Well, Mr Astbury could pop down to the Wrexham gig... One of those bands who have passed me by despite the obvious influence on all sorts of good things (including the mighty Alasdair Roberts). But the little I have heard sounds dated - am I wrong? ...................................................................................... I'm thinking with ISB it really depends on your mood,some of it stands up today,some sounds dated,it all sounds good to my ears,but then I've been a fan,as I told Alistair,since I first heard them around '67/'68. They're definitely one of those bands one either loves with a passion or hates with a like passion. Clive Palmer,who was on their first album has 'replaced' Robin Williamson who,after a few 're-unions' over the last few years has decided to continue going his own way with his career,shame really for together they were giants,bit like Wire without Robert Grey I s'pose,but there ya go. Ari Another the Keith [ Interesting to see Morecambe on the gigging map these days, a seaside town very much gone to seed - there was never anyone on there when I lived a few miles down the road in Lancaster in the 70s - recent posts refer ] Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 20:01:47 EST From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] "Heaven Knows I'm Miserable Now...But Don't Stop" > >>over England's > green and pleasant land?<< > You've never been to Salford, have you Robert. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 20:18:23 EST From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] "Heaven Knows I'm Miserable Now...But Don't Stop" In a message dated 3/23/04 7:02:27 PM Central Standard Time, MarkBursa@aol.com writes: > You've never been to Salford, have you Robert. > > > > Mark > no, but i HAVE been to Los Angeles RL ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V7 #93 ******************************