From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest)
To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org
Subject: idealcopy-digest V7 #92
Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org
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idealcopy-digest        Tuesday, March 23 2004        Volume 07 : Number 092



                               Today's Subjects:
                               -----------------
  [idealcopy] way OT: university challenge  [Andrew Walkingshaw <andrew-wire]
  [idealcopy] OT: re: Kraftwerk (Brixton)  [Ian Calder <I.Calder@surrey.ac.u]
  RE: [idealcopy] New Order question  ["Jack Alberson" <ppmgmt1@bellsouth.ne]
  Re: [idealcopy] SEND:received, understood, and a year on  [Derek White <za]
  Re: [idealcopy] SEND:received, understood, and a year on  [Derek White <za]
  Re: [idealcopy]OR......(was Moron Monkeys )  [=?iso-8859-1?q?Monochromatic]
  Re: "Art-Punk"[idealcopy] SEND:received, understood, and a year on  [Eardr]
  Re: [idealcopy] SEND:received, understood, and a year on  [Eardrumbuz@aol.]
  Re: [idealcopy] "Heaven Knows I'm Miserable Now...But Don't Stop"  ["Keith]
  Re: [idealcopy] "Heaven Knows I'm Miserable Now...But Don't Stop"  [RLynn9]
  Re: [idealcopy] Re: Blue Nile  [=?iso-8859-1?q?Monochromatic=20Man?= <xj23]
  [idealcopy] Jesus out despite spirited fightback  ["sean bowen" <sean.bowe]
  RE: [idealcopy] New Order question       [fernando <gromitklein@yahoo.com>]
  Re: [idealcopy] Re: Blue Nile            [fernando <gromitklein@yahoo.com>]
  RE: [idealcopy] New Order question  ["Jack Alberson" <ppmgmt1@bellsouth.ne]
  [idealcopy] 'On Returning'                ["anastasia" <comsat@tig.com.au>]
  [idealcopy] RE: New Order question      ["Paul Ye" <paulye154@hotmail.com>]
  Re: [idealcopy] New Order question                     [Eardrumbuz@aol.com]
  [idealcopy] graeme's day job?    ["dan bailey" <dpbailey@worldnet.att.net>]
  [idealcopy] speaking of kj ...   ["dan bailey" <dpbailey@worldnet.att.net>]

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 10:44:47 +0000
From: Andrew Walkingshaw <andrew-wire@lexical.org.uk>
Subject: [idealcopy] way OT: university challenge

Dear UK idealcopyists,

I'm on BBC2 at 8:30pm tonight. Have your supply of ammunition to chuck
at the telly ready...

Best wishes,
Andrew

- -- 
Earth Sciences, University of Cambridge     http://www.esc.cam.ac.uk/
Programme Controller, CUR1350               http://www.cur1350.co.uk/
email: andrew@lexical.org.uk              
Random Walk ::: Wednesday, 11pm ::: cur1350.co.uk ::: is this music? 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 13:25:10 -0000
From: Ian Calder <I.Calder@surrey.ac.uk>
Subject: [idealcopy] OT: re: Kraftwerk (Brixton)

>>The footage hasn't substantially changed since the last couple of times
I saw them, at least in subject matter.  <snip><<

They've been fine-tuning some of the footage over many years now - for 
example, more of the nostalgic, artwork imagery in Autobahn, actual footage 
of the Trans-Europe Express trains - but a lot of it is the same as would 
have been shown way back in 1981 - e.g. The Model, Home Computer.

Felt that it looked superb on Saturday - very impressive - they have really 
perfected it, a visual treat.

>>The robots also haven't changed much over the years - living proof of
the lack of progress in robot design technology.  From where I was
standing the two central robots didn't look too much like their human
origins - one looked black (perhaps this was the lighting?).<<
Again, they've changed subtly - the current, moving robots came to life in 
1991 - certainly Ralf and Florian's ones have aged somewhat! But from a 
distance they'd look very similar to 1991.

>>I recall when I saw them in the early 80s they had an incredible array
of glittering keyboards on stage - I think this must have been the tour
when they dismantled Kling Klang and took it around with them.  Now
there are just four laptops with keyboards behind.  Can they go anymore
minimalist?  What would they do with themselves if they did?<<
The 1981 and 1991 UK tours had the full Kling Klang studio gear on stage - 
even up till their previous most recent UK appearance - 1997's Tribal 
Gathering they were using the studio gear - but their most recent tours 
(2002 European gigs and the far east/australasian ones) the set up like you 
saw at Brixton on Saturday.
I sensed that they were now revisiting some of the classic Kraftwerk 
imagery - the shadows projected onto the curtains before they started, a la 
the covers for 'Neon Lights'/'The Model' (German issue) - the red 
shirt/black tie 'Man Machine' look, the flashing LED ties etc. Kind of 
'essence of Kraftwerk'. Musically, there seemed to be less and less played 
live - for example, in the past the middle break in Numbers was always live 
(and always a bit hit and miss), but seems to be note for note sample as 
per the original recording now.

bye,
Ian

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 07:59:46 -0600
From: "Jack Alberson" <ppmgmt1@bellsouth.net>
Subject: RE: [idealcopy] New Order question

The story I've heard is that WWRL are the call letters for a radio
station (apparently one supportive of dance music and/or New Order
themselves).  

Jack




- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-idealcopy@smoe.org [mailto:owner-idealcopy@smoe.org] On
Behalf Of Jason Rogers
Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2004 11:36 PM
To: idealcopy@smoe.org
Subject: [idealcopy] New Order question

I've been listening to New Order for well over fifteen years and have 
wondered what the "W-W-W-R-L" stands for at the beginning of the 1987 
version of "Confusion".    Does anyone here know where the letters came 
from?

I'm making a CD-R of New Order songs to introduce the band to a
co-worker 
and this version of "Confusion" is one of the ones that made the cut.
It'd 
be nice to know what the letters mean because I'm always inevitably
asked 
and I've never known.

Thanks.


Jason

Now Playing: New Order - "Broken Promise" (still working on the CD-R
mix)

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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 05:58:40 -0800 (PST)
From: Derek White <zak_blakk@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [idealcopy] SEND:received, understood, and a year on

Keith Astbury <keith.indoorminer@virgin.net> wrote:
> As for your specific comments, I can see what you mean about "Spent"
perhaps betraying it's cut'n'paste origins, but the difference is that I
think they had more in the way of raw material to 'work in': there just
*seems* to be more structure, more going on, and then there's the lyric
content, too. Overall, I just think more effort and care went into "Spent"
than N.S.A.

I love Spent - it's as good as anything I've heard this century!


Spent absolutely DEMANDS your attention. ........Phew! This is colossal.......... Brilliant track.

//////   Just in case you in any way misunderstood me, I quite agree...... it *IS* one of the disk's 'tour de force's'. It really is *that* intense, innit?  

All I was trying to say was that like Bruno, I reckon you *can*, detect that it's a 'cut'n'shut'  track on the C.D., but that's not in any way to it's detriment. 

As another correspondent has pointed out, it gets even better in the live rendering, as the raw power of the thing becomes even more manifest.

For sure, it's one of "Send"'s highlights for me............:-)


np Blue Nile - a walk across the rooftops




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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 06:21:05 -0800 (PST)
From: Derek White <zak_blakk@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [idealcopy] SEND:received, understood, and a year on

Eardrumbuz@aol.com wrote:
RE: - The Cut and Paste method of recording CD's.........


kinda reminds me of when i was attending school of visual arts in the early 
days of music videos, so video art was becoming increasingly popular as well. 
one of my classmates made a good point about exploiting (or working with) the 
limits and natural characteristics of the medium, as opposed to trying to 
create a film using video equipment. maybe wire are treating their new recording method this way, intentionally exposing the natural qualities of cut n paste, 
rather than attempting to mask them.

Succinctly put, and I suspect that there's some truth in what you say. Certainly the band's collective [so-called] 'Art-punk' ** background, and individual approaches to their side projects would suggest that exploring the possibilities of the medium, as well as the content, of a CD is entirely in character.

(PS:- By way of 'Afterthought corner' :- ** "Art-Punk"??  Hmm.  I've never been *that* struck on the term "Art-Punk" as applied to Wire, as to me it has a slight air of pretention about it that seems a little at odds with, for example, having your brain reduced to the consistency of a raw beefburger by the 100dB pounding of eardrums by 'Pink Flag'........

Is it a label the band have applied to themselves, or an epithet coined by music journo's looking for a hook to hang them on?)



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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 04:55:05 +0000 (GMT)
From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Monochromatic=20Man?= <xj23@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [idealcopy]OR......(was Moron Monkeys )

> OR he'll c*ncel elections in the name of national
> security.......Ari


This is what I've been thinking...


wnd3


	
	
		
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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 11:33:04 EST
From: Eardrumbuz@aol.com
Subject: Re: "Art-Punk"[idealcopy] SEND:received, understood, and a year on

In a message dated 3/22/04 9:28:43 AM, zak_blakk@yahoo.com writes:

>"Art-Punk"??  Hmm.  I've never been *that* struck on the term "Art-Punk"
>as applied to Wire, as to me it has a slight air of pretention about it
>that seems a little at odds with, for example, having your brain reduced
>to the consistency of a raw beefburger by the 100dB pounding of eardrums
>by 'Pink Flag'........
>
>Is it a label the band have applied to themselves, or an epithet coined
>by music journo's looking for a hook to hang them on?)

i would think, as with most labels, it was most likely applied by someone 
else...and possibly for one of the following reasons?:

1)band member(s) attended art school

2)lyrics, song titles, or sleeve design make reference to specific art, 
artist, or art movement (hehe, sometimes known as a period in art history with a 
label applied to it)

3)band is outspoken, either lyrically or in interview, about things other 
than politics (cuz that would make them a political-punk band)  ;o)  ya know, 
like cultural things and stuff

4)songs (and especially the singer in an animated way) explore the human 
psyche

5)the music and look of the bandmembers is considered 'quirky' and is 
difficult to pigeonhole with another pre-existing label

just a thought. then there are those bands whose members get involved with 
other artforms, like dance, film and video, and um...gallery installations.

3 cheers,

paul c.d.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 11:57:04 EST
From: Eardrumbuz@aol.com
Subject: Re: [idealcopy] SEND:received, understood, and a year on

In a message dated 3/22/04 9:03:51 AM, zak_blakk@yahoo.com writes:

>
>I love Spent - it's as good as anything I've heard this century!
>
>
>Spent absolutely DEMANDS your attention. ........Phew! This is 
colossal..........
>Brilliant track.
>
>//////   Just in case you in any way misunderstood me, I quite agree......
>it *IS* one of the disk's 'tour de force's'. It really is *that* intense,
>innit?  
>
>All I was trying to say was that like Bruno, I reckon you *can*, detect
>that it's a 'cut'n'shut'  track on the C.D., but that's not in any way
>to it's detriment. 
>
>As another correspondent has pointed out, it gets even better in the live
>rendering, as the raw power of the thing becomes even more manifest.

i have to admit i get a cheap thrill (a very cheap thrill) hearing how much 
people like spent, in relation to the rest of the new stuff. i know it's a 
simple enough riff, but i wrote one as identical as you can get to it, in 1989. 
mine was a bit more minimal (heh, more minimal), being that we were just one 
guitar and drums. played live the tension would build a bit more though, as we 
added a bass and occasionally a sax or two, and another guitar. gotta try and 
find a tape of one of those shows. of course, i'm not a lyrical kinda guy, so 
that's where the two songs differ most. mine was called palladium (about the nyc 
venue which became the most happenin disco in the late 80's), and the only 
words in the song were "palladium" and "i want to go there" shouted 
approximately where the dadadadadadadum (or the "woooooah" or 4 "spents") is right before 
colin shouts "spent" :o)

- -another the paul

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 17:57:13 -0000
From: "Keith Astbury" <keith.indoorminer@virgin.net>
Subject: Re: [idealcopy] "Heaven Knows I'm Miserable Now...But Don't Stop"

> ok...here is a bizarre story for ya....so my evil ex girlfriend has been
> e-mailing me a lot lately...seems she's depressed and having a rough time
out in
> La La Land...
>
> not sure i believe all this (why would the rest of the Smiths be in Los
> Angeles?) but it makes for entertaining imagery.....
>
>
> now where the hell are those leather pants that Keith sent me...

You leave me out of your libellous postings, young man ; )

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 13:24:10 EST
From: RLynn9@aol.com
Subject: Re: [idealcopy] "Heaven Knows I'm Miserable Now...But Don't Stop"

In a message dated 3/22/04 12:13:39 PM Central Standard Time, 
keith.indoorminer@virgin.net writes:

> You leave me out of your libellous postings, young man ; )

now Keith....it wasn't MY story, i was merely repeating a story that was told 
to me...
i don't really care if it's true or not because i have no respect for 
Morrissey anyway...how could someone choose to live in Los Angeles over England's 
green and pleasant land?

so much for his British patriotism

Glamourous Glue indeed

RL

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 17:50:38 +0000 (GMT)
From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Monochromatic=20Man?= <xj23@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: Blue Nile

Hats is a great cd. It has a good running order.
I like the songs on AWATR better.

Dave Stewart & Barbara Gaskin do a great cover of
Heatwave.

If anyone has a copy of the I Love This Life single,
let me know. I'd be willing to get a second mortgage
for it. (I do have an mp3 of it)


wnd3


 --- RLynn9@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated
3/20/04 11:37:09 AM Central
> Standard Time, 
> keith.indoorminer@virgin.net writes:
> 
> > np Blue Nile - a walk across the rooftops
> 
> what a great record...but not quite as lovely as
"Hats" 


	
	
		
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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 21:32:38 -0000
From: "sean bowen" <sean.bowen@ukgateway.net>
Subject: [idealcopy] Jesus out despite spirited fightback

Wow, what a nail-biting finish ! And what a heroic performance from Brainbox
Walkingshaw !
Rapid Reaction Force, Eratosthenes' Sieve, Aquaplaning, John Irving,
spherical surface area, and one which I didn't even understand (to which the
answer was "tope" or something). Such breadth of knowledge. And there wasn't
even a Wire question !
IdealCopyists who listen to Radio 3 must have been swearing at the telly
when Jesus couldn't get Steve Reich's "Drumming".

So near to glory, and yet so far......
Well done Andrew. Hope you enjoyed it all.
Sean.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 13:38:44 -0800 (PST)
From: fernando <gromitklein@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: [idealcopy] New Order question

I like it how things change as word gets around... I remember posting this
tidbit to the Ceremony list, unless it has flurished from better information
some more ;)  There is a station in Harlem, with those call letters. I noticed
this while watching some re-run of Ed Sullivan with Bo Didley on... and the
station was mentioned. Perhaps there is something more to do with Arthur Baker
at the time, than them playing New Order... unless they were also playing
Kraftwerk, thanks to Planet Rock. :))

cheers!
- -fernando

- --- Jack Alberson <ppmgmt1@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> The story I've heard is that WWRL are the call letters for a radio
> station (apparently one supportive of dance music and/or New Order
> themselves).  
> 
> Jack


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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 13:43:31 -0800 (PST)
From: fernando <gromitklein@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: Blue Nile

I bought AWATR when it came out, and remains a fave album. Hats is good, and
great running order, vs. AWATR's tick-tock with tempo. (On the subject of the
last album... i did not like much at first, but then really enjoyed the more
soulful singing, and devastatingly great songs like Family Life.)

I thought that the single popped into eBay on ocassion... and it would not be
hard to set a "notification" filter for that one. Since you are willing to
mortgage a bit... then eBay should work ;)

Of course, Annie Lennox also did a cover on her second album. Hmmm... what was
it? Oh, Downtown Lights... and there is the Ricky Lee Jones contribution to
Easter Parade (I prefer the original).

cheers!
- -fernando

- --- Monochromatic Man <xj23@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Hats is a great cd. It has a good running order.
> I like the songs on AWATR better.
> 
> Dave Stewart & Barbara Gaskin do a great cover of
> Heatwave.
> 
> If anyone has a copy of the I Love This Life single,
> let me know. I'd be willing to get a second mortgage
> for it. (I do have an mp3 of it)
> 
> 
> wnd3
> 
> 
>  --- RLynn9@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated
> 3/20/04 11:37:09 AM Central
> > Standard Time, 
> > keith.indoorminer@virgin.net writes:
> > 
> > > np Blue Nile - a walk across the rooftops
> > 
> > what a great record...but not quite as lovely as
> "Hats" 
> 
> 
> 	
> 	
> 		
> ___________________________________________________________
> Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" 
> your friends today! Download Messenger Now 
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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 15:53:37 -0600
From: "Jack Alberson" <ppmgmt1@bellsouth.net>
Subject: RE: [idealcopy] New Order question

http://www.ukhh.com/features/interviews/ruf_bambaataa/ruf_bam_2.html

An interview with Afrika Bambaataa, who name drops WWRL right away and
then talks about his work with Arthur Baker and John Robie...and that's
just one step away from NO.  I would assume Arthur talked a lot about
WWRL's innovative format in the 70s to our Manc friends and they turned
around and stuck that in, sort of an in-joke.  

?


- -----Original Message-----
From: fernando [mailto:gromitklein@yahoo.com] 
Sent: Monday, March 22, 2004 3:39 PM
To: Jack Alberson; idealcopy@smoe.org
Subject: RE: [idealcopy] New Order question

I like it how things change as word gets around... I remember posting
this
tidbit to the Ceremony list, unless it has flurished from better
information
some more ;)  There is a station in Harlem, with those call letters. I
noticed
this while watching some re-run of Ed Sullivan with Bo Didley on... and
the
station was mentioned. Perhaps there is something more to do with Arthur
Baker
at the time, than them playing New Order... unless they were also
playing
Kraftwerk, thanks to Planet Rock. :))

cheers!
- -fernando

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 09:16:51 +1100
From: "anastasia" <comsat@tig.com.au>
Subject: [idealcopy] 'On Returning'

I have been fortunate to be in contact with Steve Fellows of the Comsat
Angels. I told him about seeing WIRE and how they blew me away.
 
He said, "Glad you like Wire - I can recommend 'On Returning' -- a
really good comp with pretty much all their (old) good stuff on it. I
don't know their new stuff."
 
What are your thoughts?
 
anastasia

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 15:19:43 -0700
From: "Paul Ye" <paulye154@hotmail.com>
Subject: [idealcopy] RE: New Order question

Jason, I am curious to know the track listing when you get it finished.  
Thanks in advance.

Paul

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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 00:14:53 EST
From: Eardrumbuz@aol.com
Subject: Re: [idealcopy] New Order question

In a message dated 3/22/04 12:45:00 AM, inspectorjason@hotmail.com writes:

>I've been listening to New Order for well over fifteen years and have 
>wondered what the "W-W-W-R-L" stands for at the beginning of the 1987 
>version of "Confusion".    Does anyone here know where the letters came
>
>from?

it's a ny radio station. now am only (1600), mostly talk and i think still 
plays some old skool r&b and hip hop. wwpr (power 105) is where the old wwrl was 
on the fm dial. i stay as far away from the right as possible. the left end 
of the dial is where it's at :o)

- -paul c.d.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 00:28:01 -0600
From: "dan bailey" <dpbailey@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: [idealcopy] graeme's day job?

malicious damage calling! 
yet again!! 
here we are again with some more malicious gossip 

after a very pleasant visit to see alex paterson last week i managed 
to unearth a gem of a jam of killing joke in the studio around the 
what's THIS for...! time - a strange track, repetitive bass riff 
backed by occasional drums/synth/guitar and no vocals, very slow, 
spacey and almost pssychedelic 
needless to say it's now been added to the chaos for breakfast box 
and the man from virgin/emi said we can probably have follow the 
leaders/ftl dub/tension too 
i'm seeing him on Wednesday so fingers crossed please [maybe we can 
add it to the vinyl list too!] 
alex gave me some great live stuff from 79/80 but on closer 
inspection it turned out to be the same stuff as unperverted 
pantomime although there's a turn to red on there that didn't make 
pervy pants so if i can clean it up it should make breakfast 

I'm in the process of preparing malicious specimens to send out to 
dealers and buyers to try and gauge what sort of interest there might 
be, but in the meantime the newly revised malicious schedule now 
reads as follows: 

killing joke 
chaos for breakfast [hopefully end of may release] 
5 CD boxed set chaos for breakfast comprising: 
miniature versions in card sleeves of 
turn to red/are you receiving/nervous system [with miniature inserts] 
wardance/pssyche [with miniature conscription form] 
requiem/change [with normal sized sticker] 
follow the leaders/follow the leaders dub/tension 
a fifth CD of demos from the first album including the slow sinister 
version of wardance, bloodsport, complications, requiem, change, the 
wait, a live turn to red from the music machine, a 20-minute untitled 
studio jam session and possibly the original version of change from 
the killing joke/honey bane 1979 studio session and maybe some demos 
>from what's THIS for...! 
a wallet of 30 images and unpublished on- and off-duty photos from 
the malicious years 
all enclosed in a tastelessly designed slipcase. 

10" vinyl [october release] 
a: turn to red/are you receiving/nervous system [with inserts] 
b: wardance/pssyche [with conscription form] 
c: requiem/change [with sticker] 
d: follow the leaders/follow the leaders dub/tension [fingers crossed 
all round here please!!] 
all on 180gsm vinyl in the original packaging 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 00:32:38 -0600
From: "dan bailey" <dpbailey@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: [idealcopy] speaking of kj ...

a question by mr mick mercer in another forum --

What was the British band (I realise I shpould know) that were a little like
Killing Joke or Ritual when they first started, and had a single out? They
were well regarded and it was only recvently I heard that the dreaded Howard
Jones was in the band!

most obvious kj-esque bands i can think of that "had a single out" & perhaps
little or nothing more would be ski patrol & red beat ... amebix often
delved into that sound but certainly had nothing to do with howard jones &
were fairly prolific besides.

dan

------------------------------

End of idealcopy-digest V7 #92
******************************