From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V7 #90 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Sunday, March 21 2004 Volume 07 : Number 090 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [idealcopy] SEND:received, understood, and a year on ["Ian B" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 14:13:10 -0000 From: "Ian B" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] SEND:received, understood, and a year on - ----- Original Message ----- From: Clements, Bruno - BUP - - then I went and gave four out of five stars to the > Stranglers (sans Hugh). There were some great moments but I should have > stuck to my guns and given it three - which is above average. Bruno In previous posts I've gained the impression you're not too keen on Stranglers sans Hugh (could be the wrong impression). Anyway, do you have a view on the new album Norfolk Coast? It's had some pretty favourable reviews. The only sans Hugh album I have (or have even heard) is Written In Red (quid at Grantham Library clearout sale) which I thought was poor indeed. Ian ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 14:56:32 -0000 From: "Clements, Bruno - BUP" Subject: [idealcopy] Stranglers' latest... Hi Ian/all I haven't heard Norfolk Coast yet - a friend has bought it on the strength of good reviews and says it is good, apart from a couple of jazz-influenced tracks. I heard the single on BBC Six a few weeks ago and wasn't too impressed. Greenfield's organ playing is almost exactly the same as '77 vintage - perhaps he's trying to be ironic! Bits of the gig I went to a couple of years ago, especially when JJB sang, were very good - carbon-copy replicas of stuff from the Black and White era (like Tank and Death and Night and Blood). Sadly there is just no way I can believe they have much of a future ahead of them. Despite the mangling they got at some critics' hands at the time the early albums (and non-album singles like 5 Minutes) impressed me. OK, some of the lyrics were dodgy and some songs didn't live up to repeated playing but they were a lot better than quite a few groups we can all remember! They used to get some stick for the age thing... Jet did quit the band once (according to Martin C Strong's book) but he must have got bored, I imagine, because he wasn't 'retired' for long. The age of the people making the music is a bit of a red herring IMHO. Nobody minds the age of wrinkled old blues singers/players, after all. Shame I never got to see Nina Simone as I always loved her voice. I can't help feeling things would have turned out better for the Stranglers had they just taken a few years off (preferably before releasing that awful 10, which was the final straw for Hugh) and come back for another go at things with the original line-up, as with Wire. Bruno - -----Original Message----- From: Ian B Bruno In previous posts I've gained the impression you're not too keen on Stranglers sans Hugh (could be the wrong impression). Anyway, do you have a view on the new album Norfolk Coast? It's had some pretty favourable reviews. The only sans Hugh album I have (or have even heard) is Written In Red (quid at Grantham Library clearout sale) which I thought was poor indeed. Ian ********************************************************************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses. www.mimesweeper.com ********************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 07:04:49 -0800 (PST) From: Derek White Subject: Re: [idealcopy] SEND:received, understood, and a year on Steve Loubert wrote: > ........but, IMHO, "Nice Streets Above" is a real clunker. My favorite. I love the sounds on that song. Ain't that the *glory* of music...? .It's so subjective. No two people are *ever* going to hear things the same way. I do however, stick with my original assessment. Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 15:07:34 +0000 From: "Jason Rogers" Subject: [idealcopy] RE: British Sea Power in Atlanta >Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 18:13:12 GMT >From: P J Kane >Subject: Re: [idealcopy] RE: British Sea Power in Atlanta > >alright Jason, you're starting to freak me out, since i did that same >thing... > >hmmm.... maybe we are, in fact, the same person, and that is why we have >yet to actually meet. > Wow. This is somewhat unsettling. Did you go see the remake of Dawn Of The Dead with friends last night and then go out for pizza afterwards? If so, then we are, indeed, the same person. Jason Now Playing: New Order - "Regret" _________________________________________________________________ Free up your inbox with MSN Hotmail Extra Storage. Multiple plans available. http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200362ave/direct/01/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 07:18:18 -0800 (PST) From: Derek White Subject: Re: OT [idealcopy]OR......(was Moron Monkeys ) Ari Britt wrote: RLynn9@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 3/19/04 12:10:27 PM Central Standard Time, zak_blakk@yahoo.com writes: > Just grin and bear it for the moment, 'cos he ain't got long left, has he, if > current polls are any guide........... > me and my conspiracy friends will laugh our asses off if Bin Laden is suddenly captured right before the election.....i bet it happens.... OR that crummy bastard will find a way to cheat his way into office again.... RL OR he'll cancel elections in the name of national security.......Ari You *do* feel that there isn't a fat lot of low-down measures he won't take to hang on to power: for at least as long as it takes the ink forming the names of Bechtel, and all the other government-linked corporations fighting like ferrets in a sack over oil rights, & contracts to rebuild Iraq's infrastructure (telecoms in particular) to dry on the [legally-binding] contracts. Bush & co can just sit back and count the cash, and favours granted during the last election will have been paid in full. Has anyone questioned the fact that some of the same people who 'had links' to companies standing to gain the most from 'rebuilding Iraq' were also those people who had a hand in drawing up the primary target list? Ho-hum. There's nothing new under the sun, eh? :-( Plea to US listees: Please! You gotta get rid of this moron and his crew before they light a blue touch paper on a conflict that'll make the hundred years war seem like a genteel pub brawl......... Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 15:06:35 -0000 From: "Clements, Bruno - BUP" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] SEND:received, understood, and a year on ........IMHO, "Nice Streets Above" is a real clunker. Sorry Bruce, if it's one of yours, but more than any other track on the album, it points up the possible shortcomings in the postal cut'n'paste modus operandi, in that it appears to be a single looped idea, with little or no structure other than pitch-shifting it progressively. Rinse'n'repeat. To these ears, it's unworthy to sit on the same disk as great stuff like "Spent" , "99.9" & "You can't leave now". Fellow candidate for relegation is " Half eaten",but at least there is some development of the basic idea going on........... Well, you did ask..... Derek I'd have to listen to NSA again - I get the cut'n'paste feel with Spent myself and suspect it's now rather better live than it is on disc. Half eaten? I have no hesitation in repeating that I find it a corker... Bruno ********************************************************************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses. www.mimesweeper.com ********************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 07:46:56 -0800 (PST) From: Derek White Subject: RE: [idealcopy] SEND:received, understood, and a year on "Clements, Bruno - BUP" wrote: ........IMHO, "Nice Streets Above" is a real clunker. Sorry Bruce, if it's one of yours, but more than any other track on the album, it points up the possible shortcomings in the postal cut'n'paste modus operandi, in that it appears to be a single looped idea, with little or no structure other than pitch-shifting it progressively. Rinse'n'repeat. To these ears, it's unworthy to sit on the same disk as great stuff like "Spent" , "99.9" & "You can't leave now". Fellow candidate for relegation is " Half eaten",but at least there is some development of the basic idea going on........... Well, you did ask..... Derek I'd have to listen to NSA again - I get the cut'n'paste feel with Spent myself and suspect it's now rather better live than it is on disc. Half eaten? I have no hesitation in repeating that I find it a corker... Bruno Bruno: please see the reply I gave to Steve Loubert's post, as it fits here, too. As for your specific comments, I can see what you mean about "Spent" perhaps betraying it's cut'n'paste origins, but the difference is that I think they had more in the way of raw material to 'work in': there just *seems* to be more structure, more going on, and then there's the lyric content, too. Overall, I just think more effort and care went into "Spent" than N.S.A., which I've just played again, and it *still* sounds pretty throwaway to me...... As for "Half Eaten", to me, again it's more a case of "Half Finished". But hey, I don't want to be *too* negative about this. If the reality of the bandmember' life situations are such that all getting together at the same time to record an album is a practical impossibility, then the 'options R' *either* we get a cut & paste Wire album or no Wire album at all, and I'd much rather have something to listen to. I suspect that a great many albums are put together in this fashion these days anyway, it's just that 'our guys' have been pretty upfront about the manner in which it was recorded. I personally don't believe it's an ideal way of working, but if that's the way it has to be, then that's the way it has to be. As I said in the original post in this thread, there's still a lot to recommend on this album: some good stuff, and some GREAT stuff..... So keep it coming, guys, please.......:-) ********************************************************************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses. www.mimesweeper.com ********************************************************************** Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 16:42:10 +0000 (GMT) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Monochromatic=20Man?= Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Stranglers' latest... I have the Hits & Heroes set and it's about all the old Stranglers you need. Great for work. As far as the new stuff? The jury is still out. wnd3 --- "Clements, Bruno - BUP" wrote: > Hi Ian/all > > I haven't heard Norfolk Coast yet - a friend has > bought it on the strength > of good reviews and says it is good, apart from a > couple of jazz-influenced > tracks. > > I heard the single on BBC Six a few weeks ago and > wasn't too impressed. > Greenfield's organ playing is almost exactly the > same as '77 vintage - > perhaps he's trying to be ironic! ___________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends today! Download Messenger Now http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/download/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 17:11:36 -0000 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] SEND:received, understood, and a year on > As for your specific comments, I can see what you mean about "Spent" perhaps betraying it's cut'n'paste origins, but the difference is that I think they had more in the way of raw material to 'work in': there just *seems* to be more structure, more going on, and then there's the lyric content, too. Overall, I just think more effort and care went into "Spent" than N.S.A. I love Spent - it's as good as anything I've heard this century! Just dug out my initial review of R&B2 and this is what I said about Spent. Apologies for repeating it, but it sums up what I feel about it. Spent absolutely DEMANDS your attention. Starting with the most basic of guitar riffs and what sounds like a single hi-hat, it builds and builds. And although the bass makes an unobtrusive initial entry, you just know what at some point the whole thing is going to kick in on an altogether more apocalyptic scale. But...Wire being Wire, make us wait until 1.30 into the track, and then...Phew! This is colossal. And when things scale down again, I was thinking I know they won't do this, but hey wouldn't it be great if they picked the whole thing up again and went for the jugular once more. And what do you know....Whoosh. They do as they're told (for once!) That's right. It's back again in it's full glory. Brilliant track. np Blue Nile - a walk across the rooftops ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 12:41:30 EST From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: [idealcopy] Re: Blue Nile In a message dated 3/20/04 11:37:09 AM Central Standard Time, keith.indoorminer@virgin.net writes: > np Blue Nile - a walk across the rooftops what a great record...but not quite as lovely as "Hats" ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 13:50:07 -0600 From: "Steve Loubert" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] SEND:received, understood, and a year on - ----- Original Message ----- From: Derek White > Steve Loubert wrote: > > ........but, IMHO, "Nice Streets Above" is a real clunker. > > My favorite. I love the sounds on that song. > > Ain't that the *glory* of music...? .It's so subjective. No two people are *ever* going to hear things the same way. Absolutely. >I do however, stick with my original assessment. > Hard to believe you weren't persuaded by my powerful argument to the contrary, but I guess that's your right. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 17:01:32 EST From: Eardrumbuz@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] SEND:received, understood, and a year on In a message dated 3/20/04 10:55:00 AM, zak_blakk@yahoo.com writes: > > I suspect that a great many albums are put together in this fashion these >days anyway, it's just that 'our guys' have been pretty upfront about the >manner in which it was recorded. I personally don't believe it's an ideal >way of working, but if that's the way it has to be, then that's the way >it has to be. kinda reminds me of when i was attending school of visual arts in the early days of music videos, so video art was becoming increasingly popular as well. one of my classmates made a good point about exploiting (or working with) the limits and natural characteristics of the medium, as opposed to trying to create a film using video equipment. maybe wire are treating their new recording method this way, intentionally exposing the natural qualities of cut n paste, rather than attempting to mask them. - -paul c.d. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 17:34:57 EST From: CHRISWIRE@aol.com Subject: [idealcopy] Send - A Year On > If the reality of the bandmember' life situations are such that all getting > together at the same time to record an album is a practical impossibility, > then the 'options R' *either* we get a cut &paste Wire album or no Wire album > at all, and I'd much rather have something to listen to. > I don't buy into this theory at all.i think they just wanted to see what would happen if they contributed from afar instead of getting all together at the same time. I know Graham lives in Sweden & all that but they have found an awful lot of time to go touring all over the world together which doesn't make sense. I can understand not having time to tour widely but making an album .... Chris NP.Coda - There Is A Way To Fly ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 17:31:13 -0600 From: "dan bailey" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] RE: British Sea Power in Atlanta so what'd you think of the dawn remake, jason? i can count on my fingers the number of non-art-house movies i've been to in the last 2-plus years (literally ... mothman prophecies, sightings, about a boy, the ring, minority report & 28 days later, & probably a couple of others that don't come to mind at the moment), but i'm finding the lure of this one almost irresistible. the trailer looks great. of course, so did the trailer for 28 days later, which i thought was pretty decent but ultimately a letdown. given the current renaisssance of zombie movies, i'm more mystified than ever by the fact (as i understand it) that george romero continues to be unable to get backing for his proposed sequel to night-dawn-day, dead reckoning ... dan, who really wanted to go to bsp/kaito but was worn out after seeing the mekons at the same venue the previous night, then fell ill as the day progressed >>Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 18:13:12 GMT >>From: P J Kane >>Subject: Re: [idealcopy] RE: British Sea Power in Atlanta >> >>alright Jason, you're starting to freak me out, since i did that same >>thing... >> >>hmmm.... maybe we are, in fact, the same person, and that is why we have >>yet to actually meet. >> > >Wow. This is somewhat unsettling. > >Did you go see the remake of Dawn Of The Dead with friends last night and >then go out for pizza afterwards? >If so, then we are, indeed, the same person. > > >Jason > >Now Playing: New Order - "Regret" > >_________________________________________________________________ >Free up your inbox with MSN Hotmail Extra Storage. Multiple plans available. >http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200362ave/direct/01/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 01:13:21 -0000 From: "Keith Knight" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] Re: Blue Nile Agreed. Coincidentally I picked up 'Hats' for three quid on CD earlier this week. Along with Kate Bush's 'The Sensual world' it's inextricably linked in my mind with our honeymoon in Zimbabwe in 89. Both had just come out and I taped them to take with me without really having heard them - this was one of the few occasions when I have used a Walkman. I have an abiding memory of listening to Hats by the swimming pool at Hwange Safari Lodge as, a short distance away, in the evening light, the animals came down to the lake to drink. It's such a great mood piece album, creating its own environment and barely shifting from it. I especially love the way 'Downtown Light's moves into a different song right at the end. A genuinely great record - - although not quite as good as 'The Sensual World' mind! Another the Keith - -----Original Message----- From: owner-idealcopy@smoe.org [mailto:owner-idealcopy@smoe.org] On Behalf Of RLynn9@aol.com Sent: 20 March 2004 17:42 To: keith.indoorminer@virgin.net; zak_blakk@yahoo.com; idealcopy@smoe.org; B.Clements@bepp.co.uk Subject: [idealcopy] Re: Blue Nile In a message dated 3/20/04 11:37:09 AM Central Standard Time, keith.indoorminer@virgin.net writes: > np Blue Nile - a walk across the rooftops what a great record...but not quite as lovely as "Hats" ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V7 #90 ******************************