From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V7 #85 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Tuesday, March 16 2004 Volume 07 : Number 085 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [idealcopy] Re: idealcopy-digest V7 #76 ["Mileta Okiljevic" ] [idealcopy] How to Githead in advertising [Fergus Kelly ] Re: [idealcopy] Jason asked ["Stephen Graziano" ] Re: [idealcopy] top ten albums ["Stephen Graziano" ] Re: [idealcopy] Checking... ["Keith Astbury" ] Re: [idealcopy]OT: Jason asked... [MarkBursa@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] Jason asked [Derek White ] Re: [idealcopy] Jason asked:U2: wonderful, or *the* worst dreck.....? [Ma] [idealcopy] Mainly for Ari ["Clements, Bruno - BUP" ] Re: [idealcopy] Jason asked:U2: wonderful, or *the* worstdreck.....? ["Ma] [idealcopy] [off topic] There'll be no living with him now.... [Paul Piet] Re: [idealcopy] Jason asked:U2: wonderful, or *the* worst dreck.....? [Pa] Re: [idealcopy] Jason asked:U2: wonderful, or *the* worstdreck.....? [Mar] [idealcopy] C&W [Ari Britt ] Re: [idealcopy] Jason asked [Ari Britt ] RE: [idealcopy]OT: Jason asked... ["Keith Knight" ] Re: [idealcopy] tiny url. [Miles Goosens ] Re: [idealcopy] Get Ready for Movement (formerly top ten albums) ["Ke] Re: [idealcopy] tiny url. [RLynn9@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] Get Ready for Movement (formerly top ten albums) [Mar] Re: [idealcopy]OT: Jason asked... [MarkBursa@aol.com] [idealcopy] RE: idealcopy-digest V7 #84 ["Jason Rogers" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 09:25:15 +0100 From: "Mileta Okiljevic" Subject: [idealcopy] Re: idealcopy-digest V7 #76 - ----- Original Message ----- From: Mileta Okiljevic To: Keith Astbury Cc: Mileta Okiljevic Sent: Monday, March 15, 2004 8:34 PM Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: idealcopy-digest V7 #76 > Keith, > > Midnight Choir " Waiting For A Bricks To Fall " are > marvellous album. Most close comparasions vary from > song to song... on some songs is very clear that they owed > so much to engineered work of Phil brown and Tim friese-Green > (talk Talk) and voice is very similar to Chris Isaak, but fit perfectly.. > Cave, Walker and Tinders are because of orchestration... > on glitterhouse web-site you can download Will You Carry Me... > which was single from album..incredible.. > > also i will suggest you to download White Birch, also from Norway.. > from Glitterhouse web-site too, and then go to official one for more.. > it is fantastic..... and they support Midnight Choir.. > > i cannot find word to describe.... > > also Woven Hands (singer from 16 HorsePower ) and Ai Phoenix... > > new solo album from Chris Eckman is also very nice one, and he > include cover of Buzzcocks " Why I Can't Touch It" ( i wonder does > Pete Shelley can recognize it..) > > enjoy.. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Keith Astbury > To: > Cc: Mileta Okiljevic > Sent: Monday, March 15, 2004 4:20 PM > Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: idealcopy-digest V7 #76 > > > > > now, it happen with norwegian band MIDNIGHT CHOIR > > > and their last album for S2/Glitterhouse " Waiting For A Bricks > > > To Fall " . I was KO!!!!! > > > produced by Chris Eckman ( The Walkabouts ) and engineered > > > by Phil Brown who works with Talk Talk and rumoured from very > > > close sourced to THE MAN that he will work with Scott Walker > > > in his 4AD adventure. Also, Tim Friese-Green was there... and > > > Lee Harris.. > > > all in all, GREAT album for all who was into Cave, Walker and > > > for last stage of Talk Talk ( cover of Motherless Child sound like > > > it wass lifted from Laughing Stock..). And of Tindesrticks.. > > > > Talk Talk, Scott Walker, Nick Cave, Tindersticks. > > > > This sounds right up my street. Will make a note of this one, thanks > (takk!) > > > > Keith > > > > np New Order - Rock the Shack!! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 06:14:27 -0500 From: "Eric Klaver" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] RE: top ten albums/Substance/U2 Clements, Bruno: - --On the subject of U2: I think they've done some great tracks but I haven't dug an album out for years, which must say something about my view on them I suppose (sounds like damning with faint praise). I think people are either fans or just aren't that bothered, to be honest, though I'm sure you'll get some 'haters' posting stuff too! IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII I quite like U2 and own a number of their CDs, but like you, rarely listen to them (except for Boy). For me it's like Led Zepplin. I like the music but you tend to hear it any number of times over the week being played on radio, by other people, etc. thus negating the necessity to actually own and listen to the music in the comfort of my own home. Eric in Toronto ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 06:14:30 -0500 From: "Eric Klaver" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] 10 years Swim event Jan J Noorda: April is the coolest month, breeding lilacs out of the dead land. IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Spoken like a true Dutchman, blending the sublime with the street. Eric in Toronto ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 06:22:53 -0500 From: "Eric Klaver" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] Jason asked Tim: Plus Bono calls Kraftwerk a "Great Soul Band" in Uncut this month. I like statements that are a bit overstated, but arguably true, and thats one of them. IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII He should be crediting Afrika Bambaata (sp?) on that one Eric in Toronto ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 03:32:50 -0800 (PST) From: Fergus Kelly Subject: [idealcopy] How to Githead in advertising Just looking at the press bumf on swim~10, and can't help noticing, on the picture of Shithead, oops, sorry, Githead :), it looks like their heads are all glued together at odd angles... http://www.posteverything.com/news/article.php?id=6605&CritterSession=171b9d14780a1f6509895678718a70a0 Fergus Speaking of shit... np - Nurse With Wound: The Musty Odour Of Pierced Rectums __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - More reliable, more storage, less spam http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 13:44:02 +0100 From: "Eiliv Konglevoll" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Corner Hotel Melbourne - 7 March, 2004 One of the best drummers. And about Freddie and the Dreamers/Beatles....a nice one, I like the humour on the list! - Would not judge between Joy Division and Comsat Angels. JD more influential, of course. If someone does not "get" Sleep No More, it's their loss. And the first album has some strange and interesting songs. Fiction also very good. Been listening to My Mind's Eye lately, like it better each time. But the Jive period, not in my top 100... Talking about top 10, almost impossible..but Velvet first first and 154 very near the top. 1st Throwing Muses.. Swans - Children Of God...Young Gods - live 97, someone at last mentioned Sonic Youth, early Tuxedomoon, Stooges, Link Wray, and Closer, Sleep No More, but what about Beatles, Hendrix, Etta James, Otis Rush and there may be others..like Ari said, rather impossible. But after playing the Who there is nothing more to play, so if we are talking about ROCK... Eiliv - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Keith Astbury" To: "Eiliv Konglevoll" Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 12:31 AM Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Corner Hotel Melbourne - 7 March, 2004 > yes! > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Eiliv Konglevoll" > To: "Keith Astbury" > Sent: Monday, March 15, 2004 8:47 PM > Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Corner Hotel Melbourne - 7 March, 2004 > > > > Talking about the drummer in Comsat Angels? > > > > Eiliv > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Keith Astbury" > > To: "wire-news" > > Sent: Monday, March 15, 2004 3:53 PM > > Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Corner Hotel Melbourne - 7 March, 2004 > > > > > > > RL > > > > > sure you can! whattsamatta with you Keith? goin' soft? > > > > > > > BVD > > > > Seen the Angels once here in Groningen and wasn't that impressed. > > > > They played like a light version of the Bunnymen. > > > > > > Oh alright. Seeing as I've had permission ; ) > > > > > > Saw them once, too - supporting the Banshees. > > > > > > I wasn't impressed either. Just remember drummer was like Animal out of > > the > > > Muppets, but not as good. > > > > > > Ultimtately, I think they're to Joy Division what Freddie & the Dreamers > > > were to The Beatles. > > > > > > Will that do ya, Robert ; ) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 13:40:54 -0000 From: "Clements, Bruno - BUP" Subject: [idealcopy] Who Anyone interested in tickets for the Who at the London Forum on Weds, March 24, should drop me a line ASAP. Bruno ********************************************************************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses. www.mimesweeper.com ********************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 09:39:45 -0600 From: "Stephen Graziano" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Jason asked IMHO U2 peaked with "I Will Follow". The first time they played in NYC (at the Palladium) they played it twice in the same show, (and in my memory at least, a third time ). And in a way, they never topped the sound of that song - the big ringing open fifths on the guitar, reminiscent, but more commercially appealing than the Public Image theme, that big "open" sound that the Skids (and later Big Country, Alarm, et al pioneered), its anthemic sense. They had no where more "up" to go. And I'm not knocking them for it. It was obvious from the beginning that they wanted to be a big (i.e. stadium) band and they had the gestures and sketches of how to do it right from the beginning. For me however, it's more interesting to watch a band grow and develop in unpredictable but amazinging interesting ways. The Beatles did it. So did Wire from Pink Flag through Ideal Copy. http://www.sourmashusa.com - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Derek White" To: ; "Bart van Damme" Sent: Monday, March 15, 2004 12:24 PM Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Jason asked > Bart van Damme wrote: > Though not my very faves I've always liked and respected U2. > Bart > > > I have no problem with U2 and own most of their stuff. My preference > > does go to their earlier work (mostly on the merit of their youthful > > passion) > > noticed that I'm the only one here who put a U2 album in my Top Ten > > (The Unforgettable Fire), and I couldn't help wondering what most > > people on > > this list think of U2, whether you like them, hate them, or what. > > jason > > > //// It varies:- although I wouldn't actually leave the room if someone put something by them on the jukebox'. The only stuff I've got by them is "Boy" and "October" and I also kinda wish I had "Under a blood Red Sky", as it'd bring back pleasant memories of the only time I ever saw them.(Jan or Feb 1982, at Lancaster University, sandwiched between The Bunnymen & The Teardrop Explodes, IIRC): I guess you could say my own preference is also for their "youthfully exuberant" earlier stuff , although I thought "The Fly" was pretty neat, too..... > > > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Mail - More reliable, more storage, less spam ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 09:44:11 -0600 From: "Stephen Graziano" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] top ten albums > C&W...wossat? Ari ' do you guys play music in here' waitress - ' yeah, we got both kinds - country and western" http://www.sourmashusa.com - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ari Britt" To: "fernando" ; "Keith Astbury" Cc: Sent: Monday, March 15, 2004 5:47 PM Subject: Re: [idealcopy] top ten albums > > fernando wrote:--- Keith Astbury wrote: > > > MOVEMENT with C&W > > > > Isn't that what Love Vigilantes is ; ) > > Boy, that is very clever retort... I had to translate C&W to the US meaning > first ;) > > -fernando > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Mail - More reliable, more storage, less spam > http://mail.yahoo.com > > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Mail - More reliable, more storage, less spam ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 09:48:30 -0600 From: "Stephen Graziano" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Jason asked - Mind you, he likes The Comsat Angels as well... - In the preceding Comsat's threads, no one seems to have mentioned the "Waiting for a Miracle" album, which I believe was their first. I quite liked it in a sub-Joy Divisiony way. The title track, Independence Day, Total War, nice bleak album art (sort of a redtoned variation on Pere Ubu's Datapanik bleakscape). I don't really remember them well after that. Maybe they got too nu-romantic and I lost interest. Anyone remember Scars? http://www.sourmashusa.com - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Keith Knight" To: Sent: Monday, March 15, 2004 6:05 PM Subject: RE: [idealcopy] Jason asked > My first live experience of U2 predates even Derek's - 1980, third on > the bill, supporting Gang of Four and (I think) the Mekons at the > Lyceum. Didn't like them much then and never really revised my opinion. > A friend who accompanied me that night was completely sold and has > bought everything ever since: go figure. Mind you, he likes The Comsat > Angels as well... > > There are one or two songs I like - Beautiful Day has really grown on me > since being used on TV as the Premiership theme music and I love the > Bono / Pavarotti 'Miss Sarajevo' song. Other than that I can take or > leave them - one of those bands whose existence has very little impact > on my life. > > Another the Keith > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-idealcopy@smoe.org [mailto:owner-idealcopy@smoe.org] On > Behalf Of Derek White > > Bart > > > I have no problem with U2 and own most of their stuff. My preference > > does go to their earlier work (mostly on the merit of their youthful > > passion) > > noticed that I'm the only one here who put a U2 album in my Top Ten > > (The Unforgettable Fire), and I couldn't help wondering what most > > people on > > this list think of U2, whether you like them, hate them, or what. > > jason > > > //// It varies:- although I wouldn't actually leave the room if > someone put something by them on the jukebox'. The only stuff I've got > by them is "Boy" and "October" and I also kinda wish I had "Under a > blood Red Sky", as it'd bring back pleasant memories of the only time I > ever saw them.(Jan or Feb 1982, at Lancaster University, sandwiched > between The Bunnymen & The Teardrop Explodes, IIRC): I guess you could > say my own preference is also for their "youthfully exuberant" earlier > stuff , although I thought "The Fly" was pretty neat, too..... ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 14:59:18 -0000 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Checking... > PJK is to insert the missing 'I' from the first par and an 'of' from the > 'Sent' par... If anyone spots any howlers that I've dropped please let me, > or him, know... B > > http://www.evilsponge.org/albums/Wire__Send.htm Well done, Bruno! Good review. I've been playing Send a lot myself lately, and I feel it's now starting to sound like an album it's own right rather than a compilation of the 2 Read & Burn ep's and the odd new track. However, you lose a sponge rating yerself for not rating Spent. As I think it's colossal, I have returned your review with a big "See me" ; ) Interesting you should really like Half Eaten. Always thought it was by far the worse track on the album, as did Fergus who memorably called it Half Arsed. It had grown on me in the mean time, but it was only when I was listening to it the other night that it finally really made sense. It's taken a while, but...I like it. Keith ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 08:49:04 -0800 (PST) From: Derek White Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Jason asked:U2: wonderful, or *the* worst dreck.....? MarkBursa@aol.com wrote: > >>My first live experience of U2 predates even Derek's - 1980 ...within a year Bono had developed some form of messiah complex and was baptising the crowd with buckets of water. Alarm bells.... //// Hehehe! Yeah, I think *that* particular (irritating) aspect had already begun to manifest itself when I saw'em at Lancaster Uni: his choreographed 'milking the audience' schtick was already distracting: at the stage front in Lancaster's concert hall, there's some pillars that are principally there to support the balcony: such is their construction that they provide enough handholds & footholds for the more foolhardy exhibitionists to scale them and get access to the balcony. Predictably enough, Bono did just that, staying just long enough to make some wee girl's fantasy come true by prancing about with her before sliding down again to join his bemused bandmates. I'm certain that for everyone that was impressed by these antics, there was another who just thought "Wouldn't *you* look the complete prat if you fell, and had to leave the gig in a spinal restraint atop a stretcher".......;-) Alarm bells indeedy! In their defence, the band were good and tight, and exuded enough energy to make it a pretty entertaining night, all told. However, I was greatly pissed off by the Edge's "copying"(;-)) of a trick I'd been using for yonks, ie when you cannot, or *will not* play 'fast' guitar runs, just whack oceans of delay over everything, and play rhythmic ping-pong with the echo repeats. I swear I've been doing that since 1976, predating the Edge by two or three years, but tell people this, and they *never* believe me, just mutter "You sad, bitter, lying git...." ;-) > > >>A friend who accompanied me that night was completely sold and has > bought everything ever since: go figure. Mind you, he likes The Comsat > Angels as well...<< Ahem.... so do I. Rather more than I like U2, in fact..... > U2 are OK. Nothing to get too worked up over, but OK. ////// That about sums 'em up for me, too. Certainly, I've never felt the urge to go and buy any more of their records, and I got *heartily* sick of listening to certain tracks off the "Joshua Tree" album (was this rather bogus "we love the blues-honest" collaborate with BB King period part of this?) :- it seemed to me like the whole world and his wife had a copy of *that* for a time....... As said somewhere above, though, I rather liked "The Fly" and that period's work (Zoo TV?), and if the vid I've seen of those shows is an accurate yardstick, then it was at least a stab at doing *something* a bit different with the standard "[stadium] rock concert" format. Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - More reliable, more storage, less spam ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 08:57:15 -0800 (PST) From: Derek White Subject: Re: [idealcopy]OT: Jason asked... MarkBursa@aol.com wrote: > Jan or Feb 1982, at Lancaster University, sandwiched between The Bunnymen & > The Teardrop Explodes, IIRC I take it you mean three consecutive gigs, not all on the same bill! CORRECT! That would've been *some* bill, though, eh? All three took place in January and Feb 1982, in the space of 4 or 5 weeks, IIRC, and are the only gigs I've ever had to watch from the balcony, as opposed to the floor-pit, due to having my heavily-pregnant then-girlfriend with me, who's shape was approaching spherical at the time, so frenzied idiot-dancing was *not* on the menu those nights !......:-) Sadly, after a long tradition of putting quality gigs on at Lancaster Uni stretching back 20-25 years, these were more or less the last shows of any note that the venue put on.....:-(( Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - More reliable, more storage, less spam ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 12:25:25 EST From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy]OT: Jason asked... > Sadly, after a long tradition of putting quality gigs on at Lancaster Uni > stretching back 20-25 years, these were more or less the last shows of any > note that the venue put on.....:-(( > Wondered what had happened to it. I was a regular visitor around 79-81 (it being not that far from Blackpool) and saw, among others, The Clash, The Jam, the Two-tone tour, The Cure, Ultravox, The Undertones (supported by Orange Juice).... you at any of those? But I never remember it having a balcony! Mark ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 09:40:46 -0800 (PST) From: Derek White Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Jason asked Ari Britt wrote: ...................are our friends from outside the U.S aware of the stink Bono caused -and the aftermath of his saying the F word when accepting an award here recently which was televised?????? Ari< No, I certainly wasn't aware of it at all.....over here, the work "fuck" has become almost a commonplace, and certainly nobody gets in a lather over it anymore. To [possibly] misquote the late author Anthony Burgess (of 'Clockwork Orange' fame): "The 'Fuck' is fucking fucked", which I've always taken to mean that it's lost it's shock value. However, as John Lydon will testify, the word 'cunt' still gets the red lights flashing in censorship central......... So what's the extent of this moral panic, Ari? dw Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - More reliable, more storage, less spam ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 12:51:26 EST From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Jason asked:U2: wonderful, or *the* worst dreck.....? > >>//// Hehehe! Yeah, I think *that* particular (irritating) aspect had > already begun to manifest itself when I saw'em at Lancaster Uni:<< I imagine it was in full bloom by then. It only seemed a matter of time before Adam and Larry actually crucified Bono on stage each night. >>> In their defence, the band were good and tight, and exuded enough > energy to make it a pretty entertaining night, all told.<< Certainly when I saw them in a very small venue they were very good and very, very, energetic - much more so than most contemporaries (like the Gang of Four, a different kind of intensity...) > >> However, I was greatly pissed off by the Edge's "copying"(;-)) of a > trick I'd been using for yonks, ie when you cannot, or *will not* play 'fast' > guitar runs, just whack oceans of delay over everything, and play rhythmic > ping-pong with the echo repeats.< For me the Edge is their redeeming feature. His style owes a lot to his contemporaries but is distinctive enough... I>> swear I've been doing that since 1976, predating the Edge by two or three years, but > tell people this, and they *never* believe me, just mutter "You sad, > bitter, lying git...." ;-) > >> At least you didn't copy his hat ;-) I "invented" playing a guitar through a synth in 1980 (largely to cover up the fact that I couldn't actually play the guitar). Never seen anyone do this since. Needs two players, one to play the guitar and one to play the synth. Worked a treat. > >>>//// That about sums 'em up for me, too. Certainly, I've never felt the > urge to go and buy any more of their records, and I got *heartily* sick of > listening to certain tracks off the "Joshua Tree" album (was this rather bogus > "we love the blues-honest" collaborate with BB King period part of this?) :- > it seemed to me like the whole world and his wife had a copy of *that* for a > time....... << An extra level of pretention was *all* they needed. The authentic voice of the delta blues. Which delta would that be? The Liffey? Mark ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 18:21:54 -0000 From: "Clements, Bruno - BUP" Subject: [idealcopy] Mainly for Ari http://www.bbc.co.uk/cgi-perl/h2/h2.cgi?thread=%3C1077980711-14222.28%40foru m2.thdo.bbc.co.uk%3E&find=%3C1077980711-14222.28%40forum2.thdo.bbc.co.uk%3E& board=radio1.rock&sort=Te ...people raving about Robert Smith meets Blink 182 ********************************************************************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses. www.mimesweeper.com ********************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 13:04:01 -0600 From: Miles Goosens Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Mainly for Ari At 06:21 PM 3/16/2004 +0000, Clements, Bruno - BUP wrote: >http://www.bbc.co.uk/cgi-perl/h2/h2.cgi?thread=%3C1077980711-14222.28%40foru >m2.thdo.bbc.co.uk%3E&find=%3C1077980711-14222.28%40forum2.thdo.bbc.co.uk%3E& >board=radio1.rock&sort=Te Might I suggest, not in a spirit of criticism at all but in a "here's something useful you might not have known existed!" sorta way, that this is exactly the kind of URL for which http://www.tinyurl.com was invented. In fact, I've gone ahead and TinyURL'd that monster link: http://tinyurl.com/33gb9 Derek, am in receipt of your off-list missive and am fashioning a reply. later, Miles ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 12:29:44 -0700 From: "Matt Hursh" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Jason asked:U2: wonderful, or *the* worstdreck.....? Bit of minutia, but for what it's worth: A mention of I Will Follow being something of a more accessible version of Public Image is on target. I'm listening to PiL's Plastic Box as I type, and have to think that the rhythm portion of U2's Bullet the Blue Sky was DIRECTLY inspired by PiL's Banging the Door (from Flowers of Romance). If you've got it, it's worth a listen from the standpoint of converting experimentation to commercialism. And since I haven't said a word about them yet...I love Wire. They're, like, my favorite. Seriously. Back to work, - -M >>> 3/16/04 11:51:26 AM >>> > >>//// Hehehe! Yeah, I think *that* particular (irritating) aspect had > already begun to manifest itself when I saw'em at Lancaster Uni:<< I imagine it was in full bloom by then. It only seemed a matter of time before Adam and Larry actually crucified Bono on stage each night. >>> In their defence, the band were good and tight, and exuded enough > energy to make it a pretty entertaining night, all told.<< Certainly when I saw them in a very small venue they were very good and very, very, energetic - much more so than most contemporaries (like the Gang of Four, a different kind of intensity...) > >> However, I was greatly pissed off by the Edge's "copying"(;-)) of a > trick I'd been using for yonks, ie when you cannot, or *will not* play 'fast' > guitar runs, just whack oceans of delay over everything, and play rhythmic > ping-pong with the echo repeats.< For me the Edge is their redeeming feature. His style owes a lot to his contemporaries but is distinctive enough... I>> swear I've been doing that since 1976, predating the Edge by two or three years, but > tell people this, and they *never* believe me, just mutter "You sad, > bitter, lying git...." ;-) > >> At least you didn't copy his hat ;-) I "invented" playing a guitar through a synth in 1980 (largely to cover up the fact that I couldn't actually play the guitar). Never seen anyone do this since. Needs two players, one to play the guitar and one to play the synth. Worked a treat. > >>>//// That about sums 'em up for me, too. Certainly, I've never felt the > urge to go and buy any more of their records, and I got *heartily* sick of > listening to certain tracks off the "Joshua Tree" album (was this rather bogus > "we love the blues-honest" collaborate with BB King period part of this?) :- > it seemed to me like the whole world and his wife had a copy of *that* for a > time....... << An extra level of pretention was *all* they needed. The authentic voice of the delta blues. Which delta would that be? The Liffey? Mark ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 11:40:02 -0800 From: Paul Pietromonaco Subject: [idealcopy] [off topic] There'll be no living with him now.... Seemed timely with all of the U2 discussion lately. From the BBC: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/3517742.stm Bono to get honorary degree Campaigning U2 frontman Bono is to receive an honorary Doctor Of Laws degree from the University of Pennsylvania. The singer, who was nominated for a Nobel Peace Prize last year, will also be the speaker at the university's graduation ceremony on 17 May. The university's president, Judith Rodin, called the Dublin-based singer "a powerful force for change". Veteran jazz drummer Max Roach will also receive an honorary degree. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 15:41:59 EST From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Jason asked:U2: wonderful, or *the* worst dreck.....? In a message dated 16/03/2004 17:54:59 GMT Standard Time, MarkBursa@aol.com writes: > Certainly when I saw them in a very small venue they were very good and > very, > very, energetic - much more so than most contemporaries (like the Gang of > Four, a different kind of intensity...) //////i saw them on the "boy" tour in 81 (?) , funny gig at st albans city hall. at that time home counties provincial towns got very few punk gigs and what turned out to greet bono and co. was probably a 50% punk crowd hoping for a good pogo. sadly the gig was a bit flat as the punters were expecting something a bit more raucous and the band wanted more of a reaction than they were getting. our paths havn't crossed since............ never minded that early stuff but i just couldn't stand all that flag waving , big gesture stuff and i ran a mile until "achtung baby" , which has its moments. i thought the "dance" stuff was quite amusing , but looks like the record company waved the big stick and its back to what we know and , er , love (see also REM). of course the famous quote from hooky (on several occasions) was that JD could have done what U2 did had IC lived. never quite sure about that one , U2 always seemed to have got there through good management and high work rate that NO/smiths/bunnymen couldn't or wouldn't match. p ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 15:58:17 EST From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Jason asked:U2: wonderful, or *the* worstdreck.....? > and have to think that the rhythm portion of U2's Bullet the Blue > Sky was DIRECTLY inspired by PiL's Banging the Door (from Flowers of > Romance). My own theory of BTBS is it's a cop from the Comsat Angels' Dark Parade (the best track on their second album, Sleep no more). It's not a direct lift, but the mood and dynamic of teh song is very similar. DP was definitely a highlight pf the CSA set when they toured with U2 (U2 were promoting October, so BTBS hadn't been written yet). Draw your own conclusions, but I suspect U2's move into more textural territory was to some extent taken from the Comsats (in the same way that the Cure's change in sound from Three Imaginary Boys to 17 Seconds was directly attributable, by Robert Smith's own admission, to the Cure supporting Wire. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 14:49:22 -0800 (PST) From: Ari Britt Subject: [idealcopy] C&W Derek White wrote: Ari Britt wrote: C&W...wossat? Ari Ari: Don't know if anyone bothered to explain the abbreviation, but this side of the pond, it's shothand for Country and Western : what you guys just call 'Country', I guess.... However, as you lived over here for a while, I suspect you *already* know this and are just being faecetu...faceastios...facee...oh fuck it. You're just having a laugh........... ;-) ACTUALLY (hang's his head in shame ) Country and Western was the furthest thing from my mind,not being a fan of that genre...........I DO love 'country'.and alt. country though.........funny innit Ari Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - More reliable, more storage, less spam Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - More reliable, more storage, less spam ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 15:00:39 -0800 (PST) From: Ari Britt Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Jason asked Derek White wrote No, I certainly wasn't aware of it at all.....over here, the work "fuck" has become almost a commonplace, and certainly nobody gets in a lather over it anymore. To [possibly] misquote the late author Anthony Burgess (of 'Clockwork Orange' fame): "The 'Fuck' is fucking fucked", which I've always taken to mean that it's lost it's shock value. However, as John Lydon will testify, the word 'cunt' still gets the red lights flashing in censorship central......... So what's the extent of this moral panic, Ari? dw After the Janet Jackoff er Jackson 'nipple' incident,Bono's remark prompted ONE MAN to call his senator and complain,the result is some of our more popular radio hosts have been dismissed after a bill was passed upping the amount a broadcasting company can be fined to an exorbitant amount for 'indecent behaviour and language.'everyones afraid to sneeze...............ho hum.Ari Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - More reliable, more storage, less spam Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - More reliable, more storage, less spam ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 23:12:26 -0000 From: "Keith Knight" Subject: RE: [idealcopy]OT: Jason asked... - -----Original Message----- From: owner-idealcopy@smoe.org [mailto:owner-idealcopy@smoe.org] On Behalf Of Derek White Sadly, after a long tradition of putting quality gigs on at Lancaster Uni stretching back 20-25 years, these were more or less the last shows of any note that the venue put on.....:-(( - -------------------------------------- As a former Lancaster University alumnus (75 - 78) I saw some decent gigs there, most memorably a great John Cale performance in late 75 or early 76 with Chris Spedding on guitar, and Cale effectively predating punk by about a year (later than Peter Hammill, natch, who had released his punk album, Nadir's Big Chance earlier in 75 - had to throw that one in). The venue was only about a third full that night but it was a blistering show - it was a shame that tour was never recorded (although if anyone has somehow acquired a copy...). The punk years delivered The Damned (traditionally with The Adverts - marvellous) and The Jam (crap) and a splendid final night of the Stiff Records tour with Costello, Dury, Nick Lowe and a very drunk Wreckless Eric. But there was rather a lot of Fairport Convention gigs on IIRC, before I realised that folk was the new punk (which I did at the Whitby Folk Festival in August 77, the week that Presley died - so I can now reveal that I was fighting the punk wars with The Watersons and Martin Carthy). The Sex Pistols were allegedly going to play Pendle Junior Common Room at Lancaster in the spring of 77, at the time when they were being banned across the country (Pendle was by far the rowdiest college on the campus) but Student Union leader Maggie Gallagher (and I remember her name to this day and wish her only ill) stopped it on the grounds that the Pistols were sexist. And this was before 'Bodies'! So what could have been a great moment never came to pass. Another the Keith ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 15:32:06 -0800 (PST) From: Ari Britt Subject: [idealcopy] tiny url. went to the site,it sed click and drag this to your tool bar,tried dragging it but to no avail and,is the 'tool bar' the one below the file edit view tools help thingies? (it wouldn't 'drag' anywhere,what a drag. sorry,I'll get me coat. Ari Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - More reliable, more storage, less spam ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 17:44:21 -0600 From: Miles Goosens Subject: Re: [idealcopy] tiny url. At 03:32 PM 3/16/2004 -0800, Ari Britt wrote: >went to the site,it sed click and drag this to your tool bar,tried dragging >it but to no avail and,is the 'tool bar' the one below the file edit view >tools help thingies? (it wouldn't 'drag' anywhere,what a drag. sorry,I'll >get me coat. Ari In IE, it's talking about the "Links" bar, which you might have turned off. To make it so, go to View -> Toolbars and make sure "Links" is checked, then drag the TinyURL site to the Links bar. later, Miles ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 23:58:19 -0000 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Get Ready for Movement (formerly top ten albums) > Hooky also mentioned that Steve is the most professional of the bunch, having > never been intoxicated *during* a gig. And rumour has it, the best tunesmith in the group! > > True to form, I like it! Honestly. But then I like Primal Scream. And as I > > always say, it's better than the Com... (Edited by Anastasia) > > you mean Comsa.... (is this going to be like Beetlejuice, if it is said 3 > times?) I'm saying nothing. There's millions of them coming out of the woodwork. And I can see the whites of their eyes ; ) Keith np Ziggy ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 19:14:20 EST From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] tiny url. In a message dated 3/16/04 5:51:12 PM Central Standard Time, wireadmin@mindspring.com writes: > (it wouldn't 'drag' anywhere,what a drag. sorry,I'll > >get me coat. Ari > > Auntie Ari not being able to do 'drag' anywhere....what a shame ...i didn't realize that drag had become such a crowded profession... good luck RL ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 20:12:56 EST From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Get Ready for Movement (formerly top ten albums) > And rumour has it, the best tunesmith in the group! > The Morris contribution is much underestimated. The only thing they've ever admitted is that he wrote the whole of Procession (words, music, the lot). I suspect there's a fair bit more as well... though Barney has certainly been sole wordsmith from Temptation onwards. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 20:32:24 EST From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy]OT: Jason asked... > and The Jam (crap) When was that? I saw them in November 79. I'm guessing your gig was earlier than that... I thought they were rather good. Astonishingly loud, and as a harbinger of what was to come, Mick Talbot on keyboards for part of the set. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 02:23:55 +0000 From: "Jason Rogers" Subject: [idealcopy] RE: idealcopy-digest V7 #84 Sorry about that. I didn't mean to reply with the entire digest under quotes. I hope nobody was inconvenienced. Jason _________________________________________________________________ FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar  get it now! http://clk.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 18:30:45 -0800 (PST) From: Ari Britt Subject: Re: [idealcopy] tiny url. RLynn9@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 3/16/04 5:51:12 PM Central Standard Time, wireadmin@mindspring.com writes: > (it wouldn't 'drag' anywhere,what a drag. sorry,I'll > >get me coat. Ari > > Auntie Ari not being able to do 'drag' anywhere....what a shame ...i didn't realize that drag had become such a crowded profession... good luck RL Now you isten' 'ere young rascal Robert,ifya don't shuddup I'll Ffff... erm, I er,Hi Anastasia! How ya doin'? never did like men's only clubs anyway..mutter mutter............A Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - More reliable, more storage, less spam ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V7 #85 ******************************