From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V7 #84 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Tuesday, March 16 2004 Volume 07 : Number 084 Today's Subjects: ----------------- RE: [idealcopy] Jason asked ["Keith Knight" ] Re: [idealcopy] top ten albums [fernando ] Re: [idealcopy] Jason asked [MarkBursa@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] Get Ready for Movement (formerly top ten albums) ["Keit] Re: [idealcopy] Jason asked [MarkBursa@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] Jason asked ["Tim" ] Re: [idealcopy] Get Ready for Movement (formerly top ten albums) [fern] Re: [idealcopy] Johnny & Jonathan ["dan bailey" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] Jason asked My first live experience of U2 predates even Derek's - 1980, third on the bill, supporting Gang of Four and (I think) the Mekons at the Lyceum. Didn't like them much then and never really revised my opinion. A friend who accompanied me that night was completely sold and has bought everything ever since: go figure. Mind you, he likes The Comsat Angels as well... There are one or two songs I like - Beautiful Day has really grown on me since being used on TV as the Premiership theme music and I love the Bono / Pavarotti 'Miss Sarajevo' song. Other than that I can take or leave them - one of those bands whose existence has very little impact on my life. Another the Keith - -----Original Message----- From: owner-idealcopy@smoe.org [mailto:owner-idealcopy@smoe.org] On Behalf Of Derek White Bart > I have no problem with U2 and own most of their stuff. My preference > does go to their earlier work (mostly on the merit of their youthful > passion) > noticed that I'm the only one here who put a U2 album in my Top Ten > (The Unforgettable Fire), and I couldn't help wondering what most > people on > this list think of U2, whether you like them, hate them, or what. jason //// It varies:- although I wouldn't actually leave the room if someone put something by them on the jukebox'. The only stuff I've got by them is "Boy" and "October" and I also kinda wish I had "Under a blood Red Sky", as it'd bring back pleasant memories of the only time I ever saw them.(Jan or Feb 1982, at Lancaster University, sandwiched between The Bunnymen & The Teardrop Explodes, IIRC): I guess you could say my own preference is also for their "youthfully exuberant" earlier stuff , although I thought "The Fly" was pretty neat, too..... ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 16:44:06 -0800 (PST) From: fernando Subject: Re: [idealcopy] top ten albums C&W? it can be: 1) Cries and Whispers (if you are thinking of my post) 2) Country and Western (if you are thinking of Keith's) .. and Love Vigilante's is as country as New Order got, unless you count Love Will Tear Us Apart, oh wait, that is Sinatra... or Every Little Counts, oh wait, that was Walk on the Wilde Side... or ... - -f. - --- Ari Britt wrote: > C&W...wossat? Ari > > fernando wrote:--- Keith Astbury wrote: > > > MOVEMENT with C&W > > > > Isn't that what Love Vigilantes is ; ) > > Boy, that is very clever retort... I had to translate C&W to the US meaning > first ;) > > -fernando > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Mail - More reliable, more storage, less spam > http://mail.yahoo.com > > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Mail - More reliable, more storage, less spam __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - More reliable, more storage, less spam http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 19:49:46 EST From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Jason asked > Jan or Feb 1982, at Lancaster University, sandwiched between The Bunnymen & > The Teardrop Explodes, IIRC I take it you mean three consecutive gigs, not all on the same bill! Mark ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 01:05:10 -0000 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Get Ready for Movement (formerly top ten albums) > > >>Joking apart, I think the guy's a genius.<< > > Morris or Hannett? Well both I suppose. But I meant Morris. The most Under-Rated member of Joy Division, when in reality he was responsible for some of the most innovative drumming ever. I'm all admiration. > > >>Mark, if you're reading this - as a big JD fan, do you like Get Ready at > > all > > then (marks out of ten!!), and if not - why (bloody) not?<< > > > It starts pretty well - first four tracks are really good. Then it goes off > > the boil horribly, bottoming out with the truly dismal Rock the shack, > > possibly the worst ever NO song. True to form, I like it! Honestly. But then I like Primal Scream. And as I always say, it's better than the Com... (Edited by Anastasia) >That mawkish last track is pretty grim too. Guess what ; ) Keith np Julian Cope - Rome Wasn't Burnt in a Day (I'm not normally into squiddly guitar shit, but it works on this wild and epic 20 min wig out) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 20:10:39 EST From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Jason asked > >>My first live experience of U2 predates even Derek's - 1980, third on > the bill, supporting Gang of Four and (I think) the Mekons at the > Lyceum. << Mine's also 1980, but headlining Wolverhampton Poly students union bar, in which environment they were very good indeed. However.... >> Didn't like them much then and never really revised my opinion.<< ...within a year Bono had developed some form of messiah complex and was baptising the crowd with buckets of water. Alarm bells.... > > >>A friend who accompanied me that night was completely sold and has > bought everything ever since: go figure. Mind you, he likes The Comsat > Angels as well...<< > > The Comsats were support on that occasion (saw that double-header tour > twice) and were undoubtedly the more interesting band - though you could tell > which band was playing the game - charismatic be-mulleted front man, axe hero by > his side etc. > > U2 are OK. Nothing to get too worked up over, but OK. > > Mark ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 01:15:48 -0000 From: "Tim" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Jason asked U2, theres a funny one. See Jason, we've all got something to say about *them* (and rest assured The Larry Mullen band were taking notes when Pink Flag & Chairs Missing came out) Probably the first band I really got into, must have been about 12. Got the tapes, wore the t-shirt, bought the singles, bought the myth.....lock, stock & Red Rocks. Moved to Manchester and Switched allegiance to The Smiths in 86, then New Order in '87 and never really looked back. Lost their appeal completely for me. When Bono says "Ok Edge..play the Blues..." I think, No don't Edge, play splindly some Television riffs instead, or some choppy guitar stuff through your Delay Pedal...... I'm sure Unforgettable Fire will have had some impact on shaping my current tastes...Mr Eno, Ambience and even Wire (there is a track called Wire which has a bit of a 154 feel I reckon) Plus Bono calls Kraftwerk a "Great Soul Band" in Uncut this month. I like statements that are a bit overstated, but arguably true, and thats one of them. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 18:05:08 -0800 (PST) From: fernando Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Get Ready for Movement (formerly top ten albums) - --- Keith Astbury wrote: > The most Under-Rated member of Joy Division, when in reality he was > responsible for some of the most innovative drumming ever. > > I'm all admiration. Actually, that is just outside of the group -- Peter Hook will confess to just that point of view, just any time that you talk to him about Steven. He mentioned that he had to be told initially how to sound, but once he got it... he was brilliant. Peter was also the one that mentioned that Steven was the reason for PC&L coming out as it did. Elsewhere, somebody commented that Peter and Barney are the crazy ones (too many ideas), and Steven is the one to ground them (in a good way, doubt any punches are involved, despite Hooky's antics at shows, etc.). Hooky also mentioned that Steve is the most professional of the bunch, having never been intoxicated *during* a gig. > True to form, I like it! Honestly. But then I like Primal Scream. And as I > always say, it's better than the Com... (Edited by Anastasia) you mean Comsa.... (is this going to be like Beetlejuice, if it is said 3 times?) cheers, - -fernando __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - More reliable, more storage, less spam http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 20:15:02 -0600 From: "dan bailey" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Johnny & Jonathan a bit odd, under the circumstances, to wake up & read about lydon, as i'd just dreamed that i *was* him & had tried to drown myself, only to have 2nd thoughts & make my way back to a raft out at sea, after which i feigned death while hiding behind a girder of some kind when my mother came splashing around ... after that i somehow became the older brother in the "curtis" comic strip & successfully blew my brains out with a handgun. hmmm ... i don't think i'm getting enough sunlight, or something. of course, doing so would require going to bed before sunup & getting up before dusk ... naaah. dan >Thanks to Keith for flagging Lydon's appearance on >Jonathan Ross. Ross being Ross, it was the usual >lightweight stuff, but Johnny was a good laugh, always >worth watching I reckon. The man is a latterday >Wilfred Bramble. Instead of shouting "'arold !!" he'd >be shouting "Jordan !!" "IT don't contribute" etc. I >think Steve Jones would probably make a good Harry H >Corbett. > >Apologies to our US listees - Bramble and Corbett were >the main actors in an English 70s comedy "Steptoe & >Son", about a pair of rag and bone men. Johnny's an >absolute deadringer for Steptoe I reckon. > >Fergus > >np - Illusion Of Safety: Distraction > >__________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >Yahoo! Mail - More reliable, more storage, less spam >http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 02:18:01 -0000 From: "Tim" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] grauniad goofs/ My Bloody Valentine &"Loveless" > Before anyone flames me for having a go at a disk that pretty clearly, a lot of you *really* like, I'd like to say in my defense that so far I've not put the album on my home stereo, I've been listening to it on the move on my Discman: perhaps when some speakers are actually moving some air about, the sound will resolve itself, and the detail that I can't discern at the moment will be revealed..... I can tell there's some great stuff in there *somewhere*..;-) > Thats exactly why I love that record so much. There are some beautiful melodies, Kevin and Belinda's harmonies, and amazing sounds but all buried underneath all that intense, scorching noise. Its so bleached out and you can hardly hear the drums let alone the vocals..but actually there are some really good songs on it. I love the wilful disruption of 'To Here Knows When'...lots of people took it back thinking their vinyl was warped...for once it really was supposed to sound like that. Its that odd combination of thunderous noise, and fragile beauty that makes that record what it is. It sounds wrong...but right. Stick with it. Set aside some time for a proper listen on headphones with no distractions. And Turn it up. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 20:20:28 -0600 From: "dan bailey" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Johnny & Jonathan >a bit odd, under the circumstances, to wake up & read about lydon, as i'd >just dreamed that i *was* him & had tried to drown myself, only to have 2nd >thoughts & make my way back to a raft out at sea, after which i feigned >death while hiding behind a girder of some kind when my mother who of course would've turned 77 today had she not died 20 years ago yesterday ... & of course '77 was the year never mind the bollocks came out ... i wanna be a field day for psychology today, dan ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 19:16:41 -0800 (PST) From: eric719@webtv.net (Eric Strang) Subject: Re: [idealcopy] RE: top ten albums/Substance/U2 I'd be interested to hear what fellow Wire fans think of U2. >> I like their early stuff up through the Unforgettable Fire. Most of their stuff since then just hasn't turned my crank. Eric ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 23:30:34 -0600 From: "dan bailey" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] RE: top ten albums/Substance/U2 > I'd be interested to hear what fellow Wire fans think of U2. >> > >I like their early stuff up through the Unforgettable Fire. Most of >their stuff since then just hasn't turned my crank. >Eric like several others here, i'm just the opposite. i own everything they've done (though the only ones i bought unused were boy, zooropa & the last one) other than rattle & hum, but to me they didn't get beyond the couple-of-good-songs-per-lp stage till achtung baby. that may make them unique in my experience -- a band that, for me, didn't reach its peak till its 6th-or-so studio album, more than a decade after starting out, & without breaking up a time or 2 (a la wire) in the meantime. there are a few bands whose *4th* albums i happen to rank as my favorites by them (the cure's pornography, sonic youth's sister, maybe the banshees' juju), but they didn't have nearly as many years under their belt. dan ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 01:31:19 EST From: Eardrumbuz@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] RE: top ten albums/Substance/U2 as for substance, i don't think greatest hits or singles collections should be included in these top ten lists, just lps (vinyl or cd, but considering a cd shouldn't mean including bonus tracks or crispy ambulance would probably be #2 on my list!). bands like the smiths and cocteau twins made such great singles and eps that the albums really don't hold up quite as well...next to the singles and eps i mean. as for u2, i have always liked them. saw them first on their second trip to ny, when they played the ritz, each time after that at a bigger venue (the palladium, an outdoor concert on a pier, then nassau coliseum). the live shows were always exciting. i love the edge's guitar playing, and i can live with bono's antics. i think they still make good songs and i'll eventually pick up the last two albums i never got. - -paul c.d. p.s. got a gift card for my b-day today and spent it already! british sea power, tv on the radio, the pleased, and franz ferdinand are on the way!! ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V7 #84 ******************************