From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V7 #56 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Tuesday, February 24 2004 Volume 07 : Number 056 Today's Subjects: ----------------- RE: [idealcopy] OT: The Brits 2004 [Adrian Cooke ] Re: [idealcopy] O.T.thus spake Andy Rooney [Tisbili@aol.com] [idealcopy] Re: [RLynn9@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] OT: The Brits 2004/ J.Burchill....... ["Derek White" ] RE: [idealcopy] OT: The Brits 2004 ["Derek White" ] Re: [idealcopy] OT: The Brits 2004 [RLynn9@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] OT: The Brits 2004 ["Derek White" ] [idealcopy] kinda spammish, but might get you free stuff [P J Kane ] Re: [idealcopy] OT: The Brits 2004 [Ari Britt Subject: RE: [idealcopy] OT: The Brits 2004 Right. First of all I said Annie Lennox NOT early eighties era Eurythmics when they did 'Here Comes The Rain Again' (ie they were cool). The point I was making was that The Brits that year (typically) was dominated by pop/rock dinosaurs whose only credentials seemed to be that they'd been around for ever rather than they'd just made a good record. Don't anybody try and tell me Annie Lennox has made a good solo record. The Darkness are now owned by the mainstream, true. This is the arena they are playing in now. Beacause of this they won't be around too much longer. The joke will indeed be over. But the Brits was the punchline to that particular gag. And a very good one it was too. From Lowestoft pubs to the Brits in 3 easy steps - genius. And as for Elton John. I'm not even gonna go there.................. - -----Original Message----- From: Keith Astbury [mailto:keith.indoorminer@virgin.net] Sent: 21 February 2004 00:33 To: idealcopy@smoe.org Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT: The Brits 2004 > Not especially no. Quite a healthy precedent I would have thought. A band > with their own songs, who believe in what they're doing but find the whole > thing extremely amusing. And on top of that they've got there through the > traditional route of gigging hard through the toilet circuit of the U.K. I couldn't care less what route someone has taken as long as the records are good - that sounds like the argument that some old fart in the 70's used against punk - but as you mentioned it I'm pretty sure Annie Lennox would have played a few gigs when she was in The Tourists. Actually, I would much prefer Annie Lennox to the Darkness anyday. Here Comes the Rain for example is a glorious pop song. Even Elton has made odd good pop single. At least Crocodile Rock would make me singalong. Bell's End just makes me switch off. And the difference between Annie Lennox and The Darkness is that Annie Lennox made Cry. The Darkness make me want to cry. Derek... > Even more depressing to me, is the number of people I know that >previously displayed a modicum of taste that seem to be swallowing them >whole. Agree totally. I check out the Julian Cope site and there seems to be millions of Darkness fans there. I can see why people might find them funny, but the records stink. And that Joke Isn't Funny Anymore. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 10:10:46 -0000 From: Alistair Tear Subject: FW: [idealcopy] Perpetually immobile Fergus thusly... ))) Really ? I have the subscribers CD, which features versions of some of the material from PM, and.. apart from the occassional ditty, it's not exactly memorable... losing focus I would say.. Well the music sounds fine to me, full of light and shade... the initial stand out tune is the epic 13min. title track which shows they can still batter seven shades of shit out of lumps of metal...which is good overall the sound is lighter, fuck there's even some whistling on one tune... Isn't the problem with those subsciber cd's that they contain studio noodlings of 'work in progress'? ))) You didn't get any photos by any chance, did you ? I took photos on a friends camera, who I've long since lost contact with... no photo's I'm afraid....in those days I would have been more likely to take a cassette recorder...but I didn't ))) Showaddywaddy !!! Fuck's sake! What the fuck was THAT like ? Every bit as bizarre as you can imagine....we hated them... they hated us back...with a vengeance A Fergus np - Catch Supposes __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! 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This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept for the presence of computer viruses. ************************************************************************* ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 03:14:04 -0800 (PST) From: Ari Britt Subject: [idealcopy] O.T.thus spake Andy Rooney http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/02/19/60minutes/rooney/main601254.shtml Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard - Read only the mail you want. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 11:30:10 -0000 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT: The Brits 2004 > Don't anybody > try and tell me Annie Lennox has made a good solo record. Cry is rather sweet if you like that sort of thing. > The Darkness are now owned by the mainstream, true. This is the arena they > are playing in now. Beacause of this they won't be around too much longer. > The joke will indeed be over. But the Brits was the punchline to that > particular gag. And a very good one it was too. From Lowestoft pubs to the > Brits in 3 easy steps - genius. Everyone's had a snigger about this but really, why should the fact that some band comes from Lowestoft rather than London, New York or whatever make them inferior? It's just piss poor snobbery when it comes down to it. If you're telling me you think The Darkness are a joke, well that's one thing. Unfortunately, there's a lot of people out there who think the music is good. > And as for Elton John. I'm not even gonna go there.................. Can't stand the old twat meself, but he made some decent singles once upon a time. Give me Rocket Man, Yellow Brick Road, Sorry Seems to be...and even Sacrifice over a heavy metal Barron Knights anyday. Keith ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 11:48:07 -0000 From: Adrian Cooke Subject: RE: [idealcopy] OT: The Brits 2004 "Everyone's had a snigger about this but really, why should the fact that some band comes from Lowestoft rather than London, New York or whatever make them inferior? It's just piss poor snobbery when it comes down to it." It doesn't make them inferior, it just means they've done well to get to where they have. I saw them about 3 years ago at Alan McGee's Radio 4 night at Notting Hill Arts Club. I thought there were actually an AC/DC tribute band. But they were good. And Funny. And the crowd (all indie in-crowd types - - no dodgy metal heads) loved them. But they were treading the fine line between irony and nonsense which is why their route to mainstream stardom has been a credible one. However, as I said, it won't last. But it might have inspired the kids (man) to go buy a guitar and make a decent racket, whether out of frustration or admiration. And that's gotta be a good thing. - -----Original Message----- From: Keith Astbury [mailto:keith.indoorminer@virgin.net] Sent: 23 February 2004 11:30 To: idealcopy@smoe.org Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT: The Brits 2004 > Don't anybody > try and tell me Annie Lennox has made a good solo record. Cry is rather sweet if you like that sort of thing. > The Darkness are now owned by the mainstream, true. This is the arena they > are playing in now. Beacause of this they won't be around too much longer. > The joke will indeed be over. But the Brits was the punchline to that > particular gag. And a very good one it was too. From Lowestoft pubs to the > Brits in 3 easy steps - genius. Everyone's had a snigger about this but really, why should the fact that some band comes from Lowestoft rather than London, New York or whatever make them inferior? It's just piss poor snobbery when it comes down to it. If you're telling me you think The Darkness are a joke, well that's one thing. Unfortunately, there's a lot of people out there who think the music is good. > And as for Elton John. I'm not even gonna go there.................. Can't stand the old twat meself, but he made some decent singles once upon a time. Give me Rocket Man, Yellow Brick Road, Sorry Seems to be...and even Sacrifice over a heavy metal Barron Knights anyday. Keith ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 12:06:15 +0000 From: Andrew Walkingshaw Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT: The Brits 2004 On Mon, Feb 23, 2004 at 11:48:07AM -0000, Adrian Cooke wrote: [the Darkness] > But they were treading the fine line between irony and nonsense > which is why their route to mainstream stardom has been a credible > one. They've been spectacularly popular on student radio, probably for this reason. Thankfully, there hasn't been a wave of copyist bands in their wake - the Darkness are so over the top as to be just about unique. There are decent new bands coming through, though: we get some of their singles. A lot of rubbish, too, of course; but, for instance, Earth: The Californian Love Dream's first single is very strong (out soonish on ltd-ed 7"). Every single new band around now, though, appears to have an 80s obsession. How long to the New Acid House? - - A (who's been a one-man Longcut hype machine in Cambridge recently - thanks Keith!) - -- Earth Sciences, University of Cambridge http://www.esc.cam.ac.uk/ Programme Controller, CUR1350 http://www.cur1350.co.uk/ email: andrew@lexical.org.uk Random Walk ::: Wednesday, 11pm ::: cur1350.co.uk ::: is this music? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 12:37:37 -0000 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT: The Brits 2004 > However, as I said, it won't last. But it might have inspired the kids (man) > to go buy a guitar and make a decent racket, whether out of frustration or > admiration. > > > And that's gotta be a good thing. How is listening to The Darkness gonna inspire anyone to make a decent racket? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 14:00:08 -0000 From: Adrian Cooke Subject: RE: [idealcopy] OT: The Brits 2004 Cos you either think 'wow look being in a band is right cool' Or you think 'what a bunch of wankers I can do better than that' and then do so. - -----Original Message----- From: Keith Astbury [mailto:keith.indoorminer@virgin.net] Sent: 23 February 2004 12:38 To: idealcopy@smoe.org Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT: The Brits 2004 > However, as I said, it won't last. But it might have inspired the kids (man) > to go buy a guitar and make a decent racket, whether out of frustration or > admiration. > > > And that's gotta be a good thing. How is listening to The Darkness gonna inspire anyone to make a decent racket? ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 02:34:35 +0100 From: "Bo Krogsgaard" Subject: [none] Next Friday, Hafler Trio plays Copenhagen, if anybody can make it i am sure they will have a good time. At the same time, i will uns*bscribe from here. Most of the people here are totally narrow minded dickwads. The first time i ever posted was about the Wir3o anagrams and i was called an "anorak" .. well, amusing to some, but Andrew is an old friend of mine and that, with my love of Wire, was the reason i came here. Skip the arrogance, you know who you are, and if someone calls you "art fags" then you might some day know why. I am ashamed to like the same music as you. Hope to meet some Wire fans whose heads do not reek of their arses. b ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 11:59:33 -0500 From: Tisbili@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] O.T.thus spake Andy Rooney Andy Rooney is usually as entertaining as a pustulent boil waiting to burst. Most of the time I find myself wishing he would just hurry up and die. The only thing that stops that from being "all of the time" is that once in while he gets it right, as he did here. billy ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 12:09:05 EST From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: [idealcopy] Re: In a message dated 2/23/04 10:59:52 AM Central Standard Time, t23@mother.brap.dk writes: > Next Friday, Hafler Trio plays Copenhagen, if anybody can make it i am sure > they will have a > good time. > > At the same time, i will uns*bscribe from here. Most of the people here are > totally narrow > minded dickwads. > > The first time i ever posted was about the Wir3o anagrams and i was called > an "anorak" .. > well, amusing to some, but Andrew is an old friend of mine and that, with my > love of Wire, > was the reason i came here. > > Skip the arrogance, you know who you are, and if someone calls you "art fags" > then you > might some day know why. I am ashamed to like the same music as you. > > Hope to meet some Wire fans whose heads do not reek of their arses. > > > b what happened? did i miss something? a conflict or something? i have been thinking that things have been pretty laid back around here...almost lighthearted if you will... i had to have missed something along the way.... well....a shame to lose another member...all the best RL ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 18:02:28 +0000 From: "Derek White" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT: The Brits 2004/ J.Burchill....... >[Phil Collins],..... the ex-drummer who Julie Burchill once memorably >described as the only man "who looks like he has a stocking permanently >pulled over his head!!" As opposed to La Burchill, whom I fervently wish *would* wear a soundproofed one, the corpulent old trout. She seems to have spent a lot of the intervening years since her incarnation as NME 'music critic' frantically rowing away from everything she ever said, or claimed to believe in back then.......... _________________________________________________________________ Sign-up for a FREE BT Broadband connection today! http://www.msn.co.uk/specials/btbroadband ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 18:09:27 +0000 From: "Derek White" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] rock on tommy > > long live the John peels of the world. Ari Absolutely so, but...... > >Bizarrely I dreamt about him last night. He'd grown his hair long and >looked >like an Indian squaw with a beard. Have you recently been looking at a 70's vintage copy of 'Sounds' or something? The pic that accompanied the collumns he wrote back then in that weekly are not a million miles from looking just as you described........ ;-) As he did on TV last night, in that oft-repeated clip of him on TOTP with Rod Stewart & Faces, sheepishly bluffing away on mandolin..... _________________________________________________________________ Find a cheaper internet access deal - choose one to suit you. http://www.msn.co.uk/internetaccess ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 18:15:53 +0000 From: "Derek White" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] OT: The Brits 2004 >Right. First of all I said Annie Lennox NOT early eighties era Eurythmics >when they did 'Here Comes The Rain Again' (ie they were cool) >. Don't anybody try and tell me Annie Lennox has made a good solo record. Hmm. Dunno about that. I thought 'Thorn in my side was a bloody good pop song. Trouble is, I can't recall whether that was an A.L. solo effort, or a Eurythmics tune. Pretty much everything else she ever did blew IMHO, though.... _________________________________________________________________ Stay in touch with absent friends - get MSN Messenger http://www.msn.co.uk/messenger ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 13:27:25 EST From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT: The Brits 2004 In a message dated 2/23/04 12:20:31 PM Central Standard Time, zak_blakk@hotmail.com writes: > Hmm. Dunno about that. I thought 'Thorn in my side was a bloody good pop > song. Trouble is, I can't recall whether that was an A.L. solo effort, or a > > Eurythmics tune. it's a Eurythmics tune...from Revenge...1986.... RL ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 18:57:01 +0000 From: "Derek White" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT: The Brits 2004 >Cry is rather sweet So's glucose, but you wouldn't want to eat a 2Kg bag......;-) > >Everyone's had a snigger about this but really, why should the fact that >some band comes from Lowestoft rather than London, New York or whatever >make >them inferior? It's just piss poor snobbery when it comes down to it. I wholeheartedly agree there. The 'biz' such as it is , is so-oo 'Metropolitan' because A & R types are often such lazy, narrow-minded t***s that they *usually* can't be bothered leaving the capital, regarding it as encumbent upon acts to go & pay their dues on the 'pay to play' circuit, doing lunchtime gigs in drab toilets to one man and his dog for a beer if they're lucky. They seem convinced that if a band's got anything about them, they'll feel drawn to home in on London or wherever like some musical salmon. Only when it's self-evident that there's some kind of 'scene' breaking out in the sticks, are they despatched under protest no doubt to go and see the nerks in question in their natural habitat, whereupon they proceed to sign up all and sundry that can hold a guitar. Past examples include, Happy mondays/ stone roses era Manchester, Bunnymen-era Liverpool, Beat/Specials/UB40-era West Midlands and ABC / Human League sheffield. ( If label 'x' has one, then label 'y' ALSO must have one of whatever flavour it is. Just lazy and unimaginative, if you ask me....... a heavy metal Barron Knights anyday. Presumably doing a Queen pastiche?? > >Keith _________________________________________________________________ Sign-up for a FREE BT Broadband connection today! http://www.msn.co.uk/specials/btbroadband ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 20:02:25 GMT From: P J Kane Subject: [idealcopy] kinda spammish, but might get you free stuff i apologize for the solicitious nature of this email, but i am kind of at my wit's end here. i edit EvilSponge.org, which has proven to be successful as an online 'Zine. in fact, i have a stack of Promo Records sitting next to my stereo. the problem is that most of the writing is done by myself and co-editor Tracy. i am in school, and somewhat busy, and Tracy broke her arm, so is unable to write. we have had other writers, but they are all total slackers who we cannot depend on to do anything in a timely fashion.... so here is the deal: if you want to write music criticism and be published online, please email me off-list. Tracy and I both tutored writing to undergrads when we were in college (i seem to remember spending a year trying to get Japanese Students to use articles....) so we can help you if you feel unsure with your writing. as an added bonus: we will send you a promo disc or two. all you gotta do is write 500 words about it, and then you get to keep it. so, if you are interested, please email me (postlibyan@evilsponge.org). if not, then i apologize for taking your time... PJK please don't hate me because i can't type..... - --- All the cool kids are doing it: HTTP://www.EvilSponge.org ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 21:07:39 +0000 From: "Derek White" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT: The Brits 2004 & bastard sons of 'The Darkness' > > However, as I said, it won't last. But it might have inspired the kids >(man) to go buy a guitar and make a decent racket, whether out of >frustration or admiration. And that's gotta be a good thing. > >How is listening to The Darkness gonna inspire anyone to make a decent >racket? If precedent is any kind of guide, it's hardly encouraging. Unfortunately, when a band comes along that are as omnipresent as The Darkness are at the moment, what *usually* seems to happen is when people *do* pick up instruments, they form clones of the current mega-act the lengh & breadth of the country. Given the source of the 'inspiration', this doesn't bode well.....:-p Scanning the small ads in the music press is instructive. Previous outbreaks of the phenomena could be seen in [for instance], the 1994-and-after welter of 'musicians wanted' ads seeking a "drummer & bassist to form Oasis-influenced band". Before that it was to form a "Smiths influenced band", or a "Guns & Roses-type band." T'was ever thus when a band comes along that *allegedly* heralds a rennaissance of guitar-based music. However dubious the claim, some writers have the Lowestoft 5(?) as such a 'vangard'..8-0 Every player has to start *somewhere*, though, I guess. < :-) _________________________________________________________________ Find a cheaper internet access deal - choose one to suit you. http://www.msn.co.uk/internetaccess ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 21:19:19 +0000 From: "Derek White" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] Re: idealcopy unsubscription.....? Regards, & "later..". >what happened? did i miss something? a conflict or something? i have been >thinking that things have been pretty laid back around here...almost >lighthearted >if you will... >i had to have missed something along the way.... > >well....a shame to lose another member...all the best > >RL Yeah , I think *I've* missed a couple of meetings, here, too.... Shame to see an IC'er go, more so with the apparent ill feeling. See you Bo. (ps. Thanks for the info re. Killing Joke you e-mailed me.) _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself with cool new emoticons http://www.msn.co.uk/specials/myemo ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 00:45:42 -0000 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: idealcopy unsubscription.....? Regards, & "later..". > >what happened? did i miss something? a conflict or something? i have been > >thinking that things have been pretty laid back around here...almost > >lighthearted > >if you will... > >i had to have missed something along the way.... > > > >well....a shame to lose another member...all the best > > > >RL > > Yeah , I think *I've* missed a couple of meetings, here, too.... > > Shame to see an IC'er go, more so with the apparent ill feeling. > > See you Bo. > > (ps. Thanks for the info re. Killing Joke you e-mailed me.) I too am wondering what this is all about. Not sure being called an anorak warrants calling other subscribers here 'narrow minded dickwads', otherwise Mark B would be fighting us all ; ) Most of us have been called worse than that (it's almost an affectionate term IMO!). I certainly have. But frankly when someone ends a message with a shabby "Hope to meet some Wire fans whose heads do not reek of their arses", then I'm not gonna mourn their departure. > > _________________________________________________________________ > Express yourself with cool new emoticons http://www.msn.co.uk/specials/myemo ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 00:48:22 -0000 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT: The Brits 2004 > Cos you either think 'wow look being in a band is right cool' > > Or you think > > 'what a bunch of wankers I can do better than that' and then do so. But surely you could say that about any group. I'd be happier myself if, as a result of listening to Stereolab, people decided they wanted to sing in French ; ) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 16:46:51 -0800 (PST) From: Ari Britt Subject: [idealcopy] Bo > >what happened? did i miss something? a conflict or something? i have been> >thinking that things have been pretty laid back around here...almost> >lighthearted> >if you will...> >i had to have missed something along the way....> >> >well....a shame to lose another member...all the best I too musta missed it,'less someone emailed him off list. Agree with Keith re:the term 'Anorak' being a 'compliment',I emailed Bo off-list and informed him of such,perhaps it's a cultural thing, still,smelly bald head or not,shame to lose another one.Ari Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard - Read only the mail you want. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 16:50:24 -0800 (PST) From: Ari Britt Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT: The Brits 2004 Keith Astbury wrote 'what a bunch of wankers I can do better than that' and then do so. .>But surely you could say that about any group.<. or anyTHING surely.Ari Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard - Read only the mail you want. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 22:04:56 EST From: Eardrumbuz@aol.com Subject: [idealcopy] Re: Andy Rooney/unsubscription In a message dated 2/23/04 12:05:06 PM, Tisbili@aol.com writes: >Andy Rooney is usually as entertaining as a pustulent boil waiting to burst. > Most of the time I find myself wishing he would just hurry up and die. > > > >The only thing that stops that from being "all of the time" is that once >in while he gets it right, as he did here. yeah, i have to say that this one makes up for all the times i've wanted to slap him silly. In a message dated 2/23/04 11:59:52 AM, t23@mother.brap.dk writes: >At the same time, i will uns*bscribe from here. Most of the people here >are totally narrow >minded dickwads. > >The first time i ever posted was about the Wir3o anagrams and i was called >an "anorak" .. absolutely agree with keith on this one. i always see it as a term of endearment round here, and besides, who hauls off a bunch of insults and uns*bscribes after harboring these feelings for like a year (?) since posting about wir anagrams?? and speaking of anagrams... SUBSONIC RIP NUT INCUBI SNORTS UP BIOPIC NUN TRUSS BIONIC RUNS TUPS BIONIC RUNT SUPS PUS TURNS BIONIC CUBIST NIPS ON UR BUNCO NISI SPURT BUNCO RIP IS NUTS cheers, another the paul ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V7 #56 ******************************