From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V7 #45 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Friday, February 13 2004 Volume 07 : Number 045 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [idealcopy] Re: morning bell [HowardJSpencer@aol.com] RE: [idealcopy] OT I'd rather make furniture [Alistair Tear ] Re: [idealcopy] Indoorminer wrote......... ["Keith Astbury" ] Re: [idealcopy] Manscape [MarkBursa@aol.com] [idealcopy] FAC193 interview news ["Jack Alberson" ] Re: [idealcopy] Manscape ["Ian B" ] [idealcopy] Least favourite Wire (Wir) album [StephenSwarbrick@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] Least favourite Wire (Wir) album [Miles Goosens ] Re: [idealcopy] Manscape again [Bart van Damme ] Re: [idealcopy] Manscape again [Bart van Damme ] [idealcopy] [OT] SY Spring Concerts [Bart van Damme ] Re: [idealcopy] Re: Manscape again [fernando ] Re: [idealcopy] Manscape again [MarkBursa@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] [OT] SY Spring Concerts [Eardrumbuz@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] Manscape again [Eardrumbuz@aol.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 05:44:54 EST From: HowardJSpencer@aol.com Subject: [idealcopy] Re: morning bell << However I think "The Morning Bell" and "Small Black Reptile" and "Children of Groceries"are fairly tedious experiences, and should be avoided at all costs. Having said that if you look at the 'league table' of popular middle period tracks on the A List LP/CD "Morning Bell" comes in at Number 25 ahead of German Shepherds, and ahead of ALL of the tracks on "Drill" so SOMEBODY must like it. >> yes, me - and the Shit Behind The Teeth lyric isn't a bad one IMO! And the other two tracks that you mention are among my favourites too. The only track on Manscape I can do without it Torch It, which is often cited as an exception. Agree with Paul on Life in the.. (a great lost single) and Stampede. Also substantially agree with Mark on the extra tracks (also on Coatings) though I do have a slight fondness for Gilbert's growling on It can't be true can it. Howard ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 11:35:36 -0000 From: Alistair Tear Subject: RE: [idealcopy] OT I'd rather make furniture When my old mini-system's cd player packed up I replaced it and hooked it up to the pc...then I got a Bush mini deck from Argos for under #50. So now I can play vinyl and cassettes and record onto the hard drive... (Bryar's on it's way soon, Bart ;-)) http://www.argos.co.uk/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Search?storeId=10001&catalo gId=1751&langId=-1&searchTerms=TURNTABLE&go.x=8&go.y=11 later A > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3076209145& category=3280 Pro-ject (which makes this one) also do decent turntables for about 100 pounds though they don't have the essential 33/45 switch. For a reasonably-priced one with a switch, try a Dual (if you can find one these days - not sure they have a UK distributor any more). > >>>I'm just tending to replace my vinyl gradually anyway > ///// So am I, as I suspect many people are. However, we've probably all > got stuff on vinyl that won't, for a variety of different reasons, *ever* > see the light of day on CD, or any other digital medium, for that > matter......<< In my case the vinyl seems to grow at a similar rate to the CDs! I've certainly no plans to get shot of my turntable - in fact I may need a new one soon as my 20-year old Dual 505 is on its last legs I think! Mark ************************************************************************* The contents of the e-mail and any transmitted files are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. Transport for London Street Management hereby excludes any warranty and any liability as to the quality or accuracy of the contents of this e-mail and any attached transmitted files. If you are not the intended recipient, be advised that you have received this e-mail in error and that any use, dissemination, forwarding, printing or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please notify postmaster@Streetmanagement.org.uk. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept for the presence of computer viruses. ************************************************************************* ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 12:41:19 -0000 From: "Clements, Bruno - BUP" Subject: [idealcopy] Re: Manscape again I must be one of the few people who actually bought two copies of both Manscape and the First Letter! This was so I could give copies to my brother as presents... Mind you he never told me what he thought of them! Bruno ********************************************************************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses. www.mimesweeper.com ********************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 07:53:19 EST From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: morning bell > >>yes, me - and the Shit Behind The Teeth lyric isn't a bad one IMO! And > the > other two tracks that you mention are among my favourites too. The only > track > on Manscape I can do without it Torch It, which is often cited as an > exception. << I like Morning bell a lot - liked it even more when I discovered they were trying to sound like Timmy Thomas! Torch It! would have fitted very nicely into the 2002-3 live set very nicely, and another EGL vocal wouldn't have gone amiss! >>> Agree with Paul on Life in the.. (a great lost single) and Stampede.<< That makes three of us. >>Also > substantially agree with Mark on the extra tracks (also on Coatings) > though I > do have a slight fondness for Gilbert's growling on It can't be true can it.< > < It's the best of the three certainly. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 07:57:05 EST From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: Manscape again > I must be one of the few people who actually bought two copies of both > Manscape and the First Letter! There aren't many Wire albums I haven't got two copies of!! Mark ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 05:07:04 -0800 (PST) From: Fergus Kelly Subject: [idealcopy] Shit With remastering/remixing projects of any kind, it's probably worth remembering the following words of wisdom: - " You cannot polish a turd......" ))) No, but you could do a bronze cast... but it'd still be a piece of shit... Speaking of shit (as in, audience directed enemas), anyone see that documentary on Leigh Bowery last Monday ? The man was a true original. And a fucking nutter. Some interesting footage with Michael Clark & The Fall (all too brief though). Of course I was hoping they'd feature a bit of Clark/Gilbert or Clark/Wire footage, but unfortunately not... Fergus ps - Welcome back to the list Derek. Nice to have you among us again... np - Chris Watson: Weather Report __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online. http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 14:49:07 -0000 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Indoorminer wrote......... > I actually like it more than now that I did at the time (particularly > Reptiles and Patterns), > What are you on Keith?can I have some? Ari Potato cakes. Down to four a day now... ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 14:50:44 -0000 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Manscape > >>but it's still my least fave Wire LP by a mile > (which made it so disappointing at the time).<< > > > It's some way above The Drill in my book.... > > Mark Well yeah, mine too, but rightly or wrongly, I don't actually consider that a 'proper' album. Keith ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 09:51:48 EST From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Manscape > Well yeah, mine too, but rightly or wrongly, I don't actually consider that > a 'proper' album. > Hmmm, an album reconstructed from bits of songs, live recordings etc. In what respect is The Drill not "proper" when IBTABA and Send are? The last Wire studio album where the four of them played "live" in a studio was 154! Mark ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 08:58:37 -0600 From: "Jack Alberson" Subject: [idealcopy] FAC193 interview news Hey everybody, The text for the interview originated from three separate e-mail sessions-two with CN and one with GL. Graham has since expressed his dissatisfaction (quite plainly) with the delivery of his portion of the interview (A portion had been omitted and some of his answers put together with relevant Colin questions-admittedly bad form on my part). I have now separated his interview from Colin's (and restored the questions entirely as I asked them) along with a great big public apology. I am apologizing to you blokes as well. Carry on now discussing the Manscape portion of the interview, which was not in the slightest way tampered with, that I promise. Cheers, Jack ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 15:06:12 -0000 From: Alistair Tear Subject: FW: [idealcopy] Shit Yeah I watched that with a horrified fascination... LB definitely deserved the title of 'performance artist'... Interestingly it was a production for BBC 3 (digital) which is watched by about 3,000 people....seems to be like BBC 2 used to be before it dumbed right down So rare to see left-field subject matter covered intelligently and at a decent length... Of course it's all part of the Beeb's long-term plan to wean us off analogue and onto digital broadcasting.. 'free speech and more tv, distribute liberally' later A Well played Andrew and welcome back white Derek ;-) >Speaking of shit (as in, audience directed enemas), >anyone see that documentary on Leigh Bowery last >Monday ? The man was a true original. And a fucking >nutter. Some interesting footage with Michael Clark & The Fall (all too brief though). Of course I was hoping they'd feature a bit of Clark/Gilbert or Clark/Wire footage, but unfortunately not... Fergus ps - Welcome back to the list Derek. Nice to have you among us again... np - Chris Watson: Weather Report __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online. http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html ************************************************************************* The contents of the e-mail and any transmitted files are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. Transport for London Street Management hereby excludes any warranty and any liability as to the quality or accuracy of the contents of this e-mail and any attached transmitted files. If you are not the intended recipient, be advised that you have received this e-mail in error and that any use, dissemination, forwarding, printing or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please notify postmaster@Streetmanagement.org.uk. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept for the presence of computer viruses. ************************************************************************* ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 10:33:38 EST From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: morning bell In a message dated 2/12/04 6:56:32 AM Central Standard Time, MarkBursa@aol.com writes: > the Shit Behind The Teeth lyric isn't a bad one IMO! what exactly does this lyric mean by the way? RL ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 15:33:38 -0000 From: Alistair Tear Subject: FW: [idealcopy] Indoorminer wrote......... mmm! fried with mushrooms and tomato top nosh..... (potato cakes, not small black reptiles..) A > I actually like it more than now that I did at the time (particularly > Reptiles and Patterns), > What are you on Keith?can I have some? Ari Potato cakes. Down to four a day now... ************************************************************************* The contents of the e-mail and any transmitted files are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. Transport for London Street Management hereby excludes any warranty and any liability as to the quality or accuracy of the contents of this e-mail and any attached transmitted files. If you are not the intended recipient, be advised that you have received this e-mail in error and that any use, dissemination, forwarding, printing or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please notify postmaster@Streetmanagement.org.uk. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept for the presence of computer viruses. ************************************************************************* ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 16:47:51 -0000 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Manscape > > Well yeah, mine too, but rightly or wrongly, I don't actually consider that > > a 'proper' album. > > > > Hmmm, an album reconstructed from bits of songs, live recordings etc. In what > respect is The Drill not "proper" when IBTABA and Send are? I dunno. It's just not!! Alistear.. >mmm! fried with mushrooms and tomato >top nosh..... Toasted with butter. I'm just a simple man, with simple tastes! >(potato cakes, not small black reptiles..) So tell me, A. Just how do you like your reptiles ; ) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 18:40:12 -0000 From: "Ian B" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Manscape - ----- Original Message ----- From: > It's some way above The Drill in my book.... And IBTABA in mine. There's some excellent stuff on Manscape - particularly What Do You See, Craftsman's Touch, even Children of Groceries. I'd be interested in beat-combo adaptations of some of that stuff and The First Letter ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 15:31:30 EST From: StephenSwarbrick@aol.com Subject: [idealcopy] Least favourite Wire (Wir) album Hello all Well, I think the Manscape high and lows have been well explored ( sorry Ari no offence). Contrary yet again to most contributors on this site I rate 'The Ist Letter' as my least favourite Wir(e) album. I remember getting a copy of the remixed 'So and slow it grows' before hearing the album and totally loving it, a perfect single. Then I bought the album and thought it was very weak on material. I can cherry pick and say 'Take it' and 'Footsi-Footsi' are particular highlights but its an album that I've struggled with to enjoy and believe me I've really tried. A labour of love ( for Wire) I suppose, almost out of blind loyalty. I still think the absence of Robert made a difference but then being an ex-drummer I was always prejudice towards the rhythm section. Actually, writing this reminded me of when I went to see Wir perform the album at a Mean Fiddler venue in London and it was after the encore that I jumped up onto the stage to take the song list, well I managed to get both the song list and a copy of the lyrics to 'a big glue canal' which were posted onto the stage monitors to remind Graham ( I think I've still got them somewhere) anyway people were looking at what I was doing and in my haste I did n't notice an overhanging P.A. speaker. I smacked my head and was knocked off the stage into the crowd clutching my treasure, God I was so embarrassed, what a wanker. Now you know Regards Stevie Pinkflag ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 14:48:41 -0600 From: Miles Goosens Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Least favourite Wire (Wir) album At 03:31 PM 2/12/2004 -0500, StephenSwarbrick@aol.com wrote: >Contrary yet again to most contributors on this site I rate 'The Ist Letter' >as my least favourite Wir(e) album. >I remember getting a copy of the remixed 'So and slow it grows' before >hearing the album and totally loving it, a perfect single. Then I bought the >album >and thought it was very weak on material. I can cherry pick and say 'Take it' >and 'Footsi-Footsi' are particular highlights but its an album that I've >struggled with to enjoy and believe me I've really tried. A labour of love ( >for >Wire) I suppose, almost out of blind loyalty. Whereas for me, after buying PINK FLAG on CD c. 1988-89 (whenever Restless/Enigma put out the first three and ON RETURNING), playing it a couple of times, remaining fairly indifferent to it, and putting it away for years, buying THE FIRST LETTER in a bargain bin in 1992 on a lark was my gateway into the band Within a couple of months of that chance purchase, I had the entire mainline Wire catalog and was hooked for good. I'd definitely put A BELL IS A CUP, CHAIRS MISSING, THE IDEAL COPY, 154, and the R&B/SEND stuff ahead of it (and in that order), but that's more a testimony to the strength of the Wire catalog than a swipe at THE FIRST LETTER. later, Miles ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 13:05:14 -0800 (PST) From: Ari Britt Subject: Re: [idealcopy] FAC193 interview news Put yer dunce hat on and go stand in the corner Jack,naughty boy......(nice interview though) Ari Jack Alberson wrote:Hey everybody, The text for the interview originated from three separate e-mail sessions-two with CN and one with GL. Graham has since expressed his dissatisfaction (quite plainly) with the delivery of his portion of the interview (A portion had been omitted and some of his answers put together with relevant Colin questions-admittedly bad form on my part). I have now separated his interview from Colin's (and restored the questions entirely as I asked them) along with a great big public apology. I am apologizing to you blokes as well. Carry on now discussing the Manscape portion of the interview, which was not in the slightest way tampered with, that I promise. Cheers, Jack Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 16:08:36 EST From: Eardrumbuz@aol.com Subject: [idealcopy] Re: thedrillibtabasend In a message dated 2/12/04 10:00:33 AM, MarkBursa@aol.com writes: > >Hmmm, an album reconstructed from bits of songs, live recordings etc. In >what >respect is The Drill not "proper" when IBTABA and Send are? i'm guessing that the implication was that a proper album is an album of new material, and not that there's something wrong with the drill or any of the titles mentioned above. >The last Wire studio album where the four of them played "live" in a studio > >was 154! but do you have to play live in a studio for it to be considered a proper album? there's certainly no questioning ideal copy or abiac being proper albums, meaning full length new releases of new material. and of course, mark, you're just playing devil's advocate?... in the context of the manscape discussion/debate over whether colin should tamper with it, where it ranks among our favorites, etc... then all the wire full length releases are to be considered proper albums. and the comment that sparked the thread re:order of faves was about morning bell rating higher on the a list than anything from "drill" which i now realise i interpreted as the snakedrill epand not "the" drill. so, rethinking that thought [assumes winnie the pooh position in thoughtful spot]...think think think...i could possibly rank morning bell higher than any of the tracks on the drill, but i do really enjoy the first 3 tracks, so it's a tough call. - -paul c.d. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 22:20:06 +0100 From: Bart van Damme Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: Manscape again > got to agree with Howard here,Manscape may not be your fave Wire,it's not y > fave,I just love it for what it is:this apart it has an almost Clash feel to > it at times and is well worth a listen,it's simply another direction the boys > didn't follow up on,I for one am glad they went up the Manscape path,and I > know Bart got some inspiration from it,so it wasn't the usual fare I just liked writing BartMan's Cape... but the album is bollocks! ;-) No, not really. I had not even thought about Manscape in terms of it being rubbish or not before reading the criticism on this list. To me it seems that Manscape was just what Wire came up with at the time, just like the Wir stuff later on and IBTABA before. Apart from the first 3 albums all Wire outlets have their ups and downs imo. Even one of my favourite Wire songs, Ahead, has dated 80's synths in the chorus. Still a great song! Bart ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 22:23:26 +0100 From: Bart van Damme Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Manscape again >> I must be one of the few people who actually bought two copies of both >> Manscape and the First Letter! > There aren't many Wire albums I haven't got two copies of!! You mean apart from vinyl + cd? Bart ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 22:27:03 +0100 From: Bart van Damme Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Manscape again > I must be one of the few people who actually bought two copies of both > Manscape and the First Letter! This was so I could give copies to my brother > as presents... Mind you he never told me what he thought of them! > > Bruno Isn't it's time to confront your brother with this Bruno? ;-) Do keep us informed. Bart ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 22:35:31 +0100 From: Bart van Damme Subject: [idealcopy] [OT] SY Spring Concerts The Sonic Youth touring machine is getting geared up for a summer full of Rock Action. Between now and then, SY will play a smattering of shows starting with a spring break run through Texas. These few gigs can be expected to showcase songs from the new album which will be released early this summer. March 16: Austin- Stubbs Bar-B-Q with Comets on Fire. Tickets available at www.frontgatetickets.com, by phone (512) 389-0315, Waterloo Records, Joe's Coffee and CD Warehouse. March 17: Houston-Club V with Comets on Fire. Tickets available at www.ticketmaster.com, by phone at (713) 629-3700 and at the Verizon Wireless Theatre Box Office. March 18 Dallas- Gypsy Tea Room with Comets on Fire. Tickets available at: The Gypsy Tea Room, www.frontgatetickets , CD World and Good Records. April 3: All Tomorrows Parties Festival in the U.K. Sold Out. April 30: Sonic Youth with J. Mascis, Sebadoh, and others at John M. Greene Hall at Smith College. All proceeds from the concert will benefit Community Resources for People with Autism. Tickets will be available at: Night Owl Records - Easthampton, MA and Turn it Up! - Northampton, MA ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 22:48:12 +0100 From: Bart van Damme Subject: Re: [idealcopy] morning bell >> the Shit Behind The Teeth lyric isn't a bad one IMO! > what exactly does this lyric mean by the way? Dunno, but would make a great toothpaste commercial! I like Morning Bell very much! Now why did Radiohead call their Kid-A song the same? Some sort of Tribute? (Like that one too btw). Bart ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 15:29:52 -0800 (PST) From: fernando Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: Manscape again Er, I think that I bought it 3 times... when it came out, the fold-out edition and then the Japanese edition when I saw it. Mind you, not at full price, but bought it three times. May be more. (oh yes, argentinian vinyl edition I think? UGH). My bad. I do like the album... with a couple of daft songs. I am with Mark, in that The Drill is played quite a bit less, if at all. I like the comparison of the So Slow single vs. album mix comparison. - -fernando - --- "Clements, Bruno - BUP" wrote: > I must be one of the few people who actually bought two copies of both > Manscape and the First Letter! This was so I could give copies to my brother > as presents... Mind you he never told me what he thought of them! > > Bruno __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online. http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 19:44:17 EST From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Manscape again > >There aren't many Wire albums I haven't got two copies of!! > > You mean apart from vinyl + cd? No, that's what I meant. I'm not THAT bad ;-) Mark ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 22:52:35 EST From: Eardrumbuz@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] [OT] SY Spring Concerts In a message dated 2/12/04 4:38:53 PM, bartvandamme@home.nl writes: >March 16: Austin- Stubbs Bar-B-Q according to a friend of mine, this is one of the greatest places to see a gig. are there any texancopyists in the house? - -paul c.d. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 22:59:16 EST From: Eardrumbuz@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Manscape again In a message dated 2/12/04 7:47:47 PM, MarkBursa@aol.com writes: >> >There aren't many Wire albums I haven't got two copies of!! >> >> You mean apart from vinyl + cd? > >No, that's what I meant. I'm not THAT bad ;-) i've been THAT bad (only a couple times), though not with wire...yet. i bought manscape 2x, but one is the cardboard cover. there have been occasions where i've bought something for a great price, even though i already owned the exact same thing. i dunno why except that maybe it seems like getting 2 cds for $15 is better than 1 for $12?? - -another the paul ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V7 #45 ******************************