From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V7 #43 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Wednesday, February 11 2004 Volume 07 : Number 043 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [idealcopy] Extra Pixies dates! ["Clements, Bruno - BUP" ] [idealcopy] Manscape [=?iso-8859-1?q?Phillip=20Blakeney?= ] [idealcopy] Wireviews ["Jack Alberson" ] RE: [idealcopy] It's not the past again... is it ? ["Derek White" ] Re: [idealcopy] Manscape ["Keith" ] Re: [idealcopy] It's not the past again... is it ? ["Keith" ] Re: [idealcopy] Manscape [Eardrumbuz@aol.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 09:34:53 -0000 From: "Clements, Bruno - BUP" Subject: [idealcopy] Extra Pixies dates! Might take you up on that offer... Repeat dialling is having no effect this morning and the Stargreen server is seized up. Bruno PS I wasn't shouting 'Howlin' Wolf' at the tele, not me, sir, no sir! - -----Original Message----- From: Andrew Walkingshaw [mailto:andrew-wire@lexical.org.uk] Sent: 11 February 2004 00:00 To: idealcopy@smoe.org Subject: [Maybe Spam] [idealcopy] OT: Extra Pixies dates! I won't be going for tickets for this, but tickets for 4th/5th June at Brixton go on sale 9am tomorrow. Best of luck, everyone, hope you see this in time... - - Andrew (all else fails, I *may* have spares which I wouldn't want anything over face + postage costs for - not sure yet. Depends on some peoples' exam timetables, actually - I bought tickets on the behalf of people who aren't certain whether they can come along...) - -- Earth Sciences, University of Cambridge http://www.esc.cam.ac.uk/ Head of Programming, CUR1350 http://www.cur1350.co.uk/ personal email: andrew@lexical.org.uk "... plucking hours from the sky" ********************************************************************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses. www.mimesweeper.com ********************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 02:30:16 -0800 (PST) From: Fergus Kelly Subject: [idealcopy] It's not the past again... is it ? >Problem with Manscape isn't the mix. Its got no decent >riffs on it...the >guitars meander around where they should chop and >slice. The songs are >unfocussed and unmemorable. Its a complete shambles. ))) Absolutely. 'A poor mix' is a thin excuse. Apart from 'Craftsman's Touch', which always stood head and shoulders above the rest of the record (Rob expressed his fondness for that one at The Barbican), this LP is best left where it came from... 1990 Why revisit old failures ? Though perhaps after flag:burning, a need is still felt to continue the strategy to 'reclaim' their past... If anything needs remixing, it's The 1st Letter, but then, that's a similarly pointless exercise, unless they give it a radical makeover... and it becomes something else completely... These are products of their time. Artefacts of an era. I would have thought the success of the last 3 years was proof enough that they are in a good enough place now to warrant forging ahead without looking back. Revisionism. It's not what it used to be. Onwards and upwards !! Move on ! Move on ! Fergus __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online. http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 03:24:26 -0800 (PST) From: Ari Britt Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re:Manscape HowardJSpencer@aol.com wrote:<< Manscape is generally regarded as the least accessible of Wire's albums. Actually it's just appallingly mixed. There is definitely a project under discussion to re-appraise this material from the original masters and see if it can be rescued. >>>This would be a win-win situation for fans - Colin can hardly make things worse on Manscape than they are at the moment! Even if he did, the original album would still exist. Let's hope he has some joy with it once the Wire tour and R&B 03 are sorted. >> I don't agree. The jury's out in this household,I like it as it is but acknowledge that remastering/remixing could have a positive effect,like on the Pink Flag remaster...........bring it on Colin.........Ari Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 23:15:42 +1100 (EST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Phillip=20Blakeney?= Subject: [idealcopy] Manscape Tim wrote: "Problem with Manscape isn't the mix. Its got no decent riffs on it...the guitars meander around where they should chop and slice. The songs are unfocussed and unmemorable. Its a complete shambles." Hmmmm... not a COMPLETE shambles- it might have made a good 12" E.P. Howsabout Side One: "Patterns of Behaviour"; "Torch It"; and Side Two "You Hung Your Lights / A Craftsman's Touch". Add "Goodbye Ploy" at a pinch and the outcome is quite good, bad mix or no. However I think "The Morning Bell" and "Small Black Reptile" and "Children of Groceries"are fairly tedious experiences, and should be avoided at all costs. Having said that if you look at the 'league table' of popular middle period tracks on the A List LP/CD "Morning Bell" comes in at Number 25 ahead of German Shepherds, and ahead of ALL of the tracks on "Drill" so SOMEBODY must like it. Phillip from Australia - --------------------------------- Yahoo! Greetings Send your love online with Yahoo! Greetings - FREE! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 12:01:18 -0000 From: "Clements, Bruno - BUP" Subject: [idealcopy] Manscape remix Ari wrote: The jury's out in this household,I like it as it is but acknowledge that remastering/remixing could have a positive effect, like on the Pink Flag remaster...........bring it on Colin.........Ari - ---Remixing is rather more drastic than remastering but, as I said earlier, I can't see how fans can lose on this. It sounds to me like there's a ton of good material struggling to get out. To put it in context, I've never been able to play it through from start to finish without skipping tracks or switching to something else. If I put the First Letter on (not even my favourite Wir/e album, needless to say) and I have to leave the house, or take the girlfriend into account, it really gets my goat! I doubt whether it would gain much from a remix. Bruno ********************************************************************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses. www.mimesweeper.com ********************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 07:20:31 EST From: Tisbili@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT I'd rather make furniture In a message dated 2/9/2004 4:52:19 PM Eastern Standard Time, ian@ibarrett.fsnet.co.uk writes: > np Nosferatu - Cornwell and Williams (just got a turntable so am revisiting > some long neglected vinyl) > Wow...they still make these? Those shelves with 1000s of lps [including Nosferatu, btw] and 400 or so 12"s that have not been touched in 10 years are crying out for attention, but since my old belt drive (ha!) technics table bit the dust there's been no chance. I miss them, I need to get one of them, but am unwilling to shell out the big bucks required for the collector's market turntables that seem to be all that is available. Maybe I should try ebay or some such. billy =-=-=-=-=- rp: air - talkie walkie ry cooder - boomer's story zappa - everything's healing nicely marley/laswell - dreams of freedom [odd: a Marley remix that doesn't have any Marley in it]. stereophonics - performance thompson twins - a product of...participation ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 13:09:04 -0000 From: "Clements, Bruno - BUP" Subject: RE: [Maybe Spam] Re: [idealcopy] OT I'd rather make furniture Yeah, I'd try ebay. My problem is having a decent turntable but no amp with phono input!!! I'm just tending to replace my vinyl gradually anyway - some of it sounds so much better these days. Just got the remastered Low the other day - knocks the socks off my old vinyl version. Bruno - -----Original Message----- From: Tisbili@aol.com [mailto:Tisbili@aol.com] Sent: 11 February 2004 12:21 To: idealcopy@smoe.org Subject: [Maybe Spam] Re: [idealcopy] OT I'd rather make furniture In a message dated 2/9/2004 4:52:19 PM Eastern Standard Time, ian@ibarrett.fsnet.co.uk writes: > np Nosferatu - Cornwell and Williams (just got a turntable so am revisiting > some long neglected vinyl) > Wow...they still make these? Those shelves with 1000s of lps [including Nosferatu, btw] and 400 or so 12"s that have not been touched in 10 years are crying out for attention, but since my old belt drive (ha!) technics table bit the dust there's been no chance. I miss them, I need to get one of them, but am unwilling to shell out the big bucks required for the collector's market turntables that seem to be all that is available. Maybe I should try ebay or some such. billy =-=-=-=-=- rp: air - talkie walkie ry cooder - boomer's story zappa - everything's healing nicely marley/laswell - dreams of freedom [odd: a Marley remix that doesn't have any Marley in it]. stereophonics - performance thompson twins - a product of...participation ********************************************************************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses. www.mimesweeper.com ********************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 13:10:16 -0000 From: "Clements, Bruno - BUP" Subject: [idealcopy] Version with added 'if' Ari wrote: The jury's out in this household,I like it as it is but acknowledge that remastering/remixing could have a positive effect, like on the Pink Flag remaster...........bring it on Colin.........Ari - ---Remixing is rather more drastic than remastering but, as I said earlier, I can't see how fans can lose on this. It sounds to me like there's a ton of good material struggling to get out. To put it in context, I've never been able to play it through from start to finish without skipping tracks or switching to something else. If I put the First Letter on (not even my favourite Wir/e album, needless to say) and if I have to leave the house, or take the girlfriend into account, it really gets my goat! I doubt whether it would gain much from a remix. Bruno ********************************************************************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses. www.mimesweeper.com ********************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 09:27:19 -0500 From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Manscape i don't think manscape is a disaster. i hate that "shit behind the teeth" lyric , but nothing else is actually bad. i think the big problem is in the last 2 tracks ; "children of groceries" is very dull and the final track just goes on and on and on. i get this feeling of a band fading away into the distance , losing focus and ready for a break. i do like the first 2 (poppier) tracks on the cd , never understood the decision to leave those off the vinyl version. i thought the most interesting comment in the FAC193 interview was about how dave allen was great at "weirding up" the cure , but wire were a different challenge.......... i'm surprised colin is talking fairly positively about this remix idea. whilst it could be fascinating , it always seemed to me like the kind of thing that would be well down the list of priorities given the amount of "new" activities ongoing. i struggle to imagine it really getting finished. p ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 14:37:33 -0000 From: "Tim" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Manscape remix Well, if the tracks are transformed in the way that say the IBTABA version of Eardrum Buzz was to its superb Single version then it would be worth it. - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Clements, Bruno - BUP" To: Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2004 12:01 PM Subject: [idealcopy] Manscape remix > Ari wrote: The jury's out in this household,I like it as it is but > acknowledge that remastering/remixing could have a positive effect, like on > the Pink Flag remaster...........bring it on Colin.........Ari > > ---Remixing is rather more drastic than remastering but, as I said earlier, > I can't see how fans can lose on this. It sounds to me like there's a ton of > good material struggling to get out. > > To put it in context, I've never been able to play it through from start to > finish without skipping tracks or switching to something else. If I put the > First Letter on (not even my favourite Wir/e album, needless to say) and I > have to leave the house, or take the girlfriend into account, it really gets > my goat! I doubt whether it would gain much from a remix. > > Bruno > > > ********************************************************************** > This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and > intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they > are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify > the system manager. > > This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by > MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses. > > www.mimesweeper.com > ********************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 09:09:47 -0600 From: "Jack Alberson" Subject: [idealcopy] Wireviews This message is pretty much for Craig G, whom I'm pretty sure is on this list. If you want to post the FAC193.com interview at Wireviews you're more than welcome to. I sent in an e-mail providing the link but I'm not sure it made it to you. Glad everybody's enjoying it (particularly the Manscape news) Cheers! Jack ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 17:21:02 +0000 From: "Derek White" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] It's not the past again... is it ? >Why revisit old failures ?.............. //// Why indeed...? >If anything needs remixing, it's The 1st Letter, but then, that's a >similarly pointless exercise, unless >they give it a radical makeover... and it becomes something else >completely> //// Thus rendering it an *entire* waste of time, IMHO. I've had a copy of 'The First Letter' since it came out, and despite repeated playings down the years, it obstinately refuses to 'stick'. To these ears, there's not a single song on it that burrows it's way into memory, to be recalled and hummed at a later date, in the way that the best Wire stuff does. As for revisiting Manscape, I'm not mad keen on that idea. You have to ask "Why?", As it seems to be almost universally reviled as a turkey, ( inasmuch as 'our boys' can be said to have produced one ). It's not an album I myself own, and those listenings I *have* given to it have me agreeing with those of you who have described it as unfocussed, meandering, and devoid of any memorable tunes. Full marks for trying a different tack, lads, but I don't think this is one you'll be remembered for. >I would have thought the success of the last 3 years was proof enough that >they are in a good enough place now to warrant forging ahead without >looking back....These are products of their time. //// Like Fergus, I question whether it's a useful excercise of the band's talents and time to revisit it, in the hope of remedying it's shortcomings. *Personally* I'd much rather they got on with ploughing the new furrow they've so far done to good effect with the current incarnation, and leave the past in the past. With remastering/remixing projects of any kind, it's probably worth remembering the following words of wisdom: - " You cannot polish a turd......" >Onwards and upwards !! Move on ! Move on ! //// Agreed. Y'know what a bunch of neophiles the Wire audience can be....FRESH INPUT, NOW!!! D.W. _________________________________________________________________ Use MSN Messenger to send music and pics to your friends http://www.msn.co.uk/messenger ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 17:35:55 +0000 From: "Derek White" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT I'd rather make furniture >My problem is having a decent turntable but no amp with phono input!!! ///// At a pinch, to get a new lease of life out of your old vinyl, (and if you're any good with a soldering iron) you could always build yourself a DIY outboard RIAA pre-amp, and plug that into an AUX input or something? I'm sure there'll be any number of designs on the web, not least in archive sites operated by those Electronics hobbyist type magazines. Don't forget to use decent-grade capacitors in the thing, though, if you're of the Hi-Fidelity persuasion. > >I'm just tending to replace my vinyl gradually anyway ///// So am I, as I suspect many people are. However, we've probably all got stuff on vinyl that won't, for a variety of different reasons, *ever* see the light of day on CD, or any other digital medium, for that matter...... D.W. > _________________________________________________________________ Use MSN Messenger to send music and pics to your friends http://www.msn.co.uk/messenger ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 12:58:49 EST From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT I'd rather make furniture > >>My problem is having a decent turntable but no amp with phono input!!! > > ///// At a pinch, to get a new lease of life out of your old vinyl, (and > if you're any good with a soldering iron) you could always build yourself a > > DIY outboard RIAA pre-amp, and plug that into an AUX input or something? > I'm sure there'll be any number of designs on the web, not least in archive > sites operated by those Electronics hobbyist type magazines. Don't forget to > > use decent-grade capacitors in the thing, though, if you're of the > Hi-Fidelity persuasion.<< To be honest you might as well buyt one. NAD do one (which is what I use) and I think it only cost about #30. You'd probably spend half that on components. Or you could look on ebay and find things like this http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3076209145&category=3280 Pro-ject (which makes this one) also do decent turntables for about 100 pounds though they don't have the essential 33/45 switch. For a reasonably-priced one with a switch, try a Dual (if you can find one these days - not sure they have a UK distributor any more). > >>>I'm just tending to replace my vinyl gradually anyway > ///// So am I, as I suspect many people are. However, we've probably all > got stuff on vinyl that won't, for a variety of different reasons, *ever* > see the light of day on CD, or any other digital medium, for that > matter......<< In my case the vinyl seems to grow at a similar rate to the CDs! I've certainly no plans to get shot of my turntable - in fact I may need a new one soon as my 20-year old Dual 505 is on its last legs I think! Mark ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 14:09:50 -0600 From: "dan bailey" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT I'd rather make furniture >In my case the vinyl seems to grow at a similar rate to the CDs! I've >certainly no plans to get shot of my turntable - in fact I may need a new one >soon as >my 20-year old Dual 505 is on its last legs I think! > >Mark demand your money back! my pioneer 516 will turn 26 in may ... dan ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 14:12:41 -0600 From: "dan bailey" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT I'd rather make furniture depends on where you're located, of course, but even as i type if i needed to i could drive across town to best buy & pick up a no-doubt serviceable turntable for $100 or so. dan >Those shelves with 1000s of lps [including Nosferatu, btw] and 400 or so 12"s >that have not been touched in 10 years are crying out for attention, but >since my old belt drive (ha!) technics table bit the dust there's been no chance. > I miss them, I need to get one of them, but am unwilling to shell out the >big bucks required for the collector's market turntables that seem to be all >that is available. > >Maybe I should try ebay or some such. > >billy >=-=-=-=-=- >rp: air - talkie walkie >ry cooder - boomer's story >zappa - everything's healing nicely >marley/laswell - dreams of freedom [odd: a Marley remix that doesn't have any >Marley in it]. >stereophonics - performance >thompson twins - a product of...participation ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 20:40:50 +0000 (GMT) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Monochromatic=20Man?= Subject: [idealcopy] turntables I have bought several from ebay the past few years. All work fine. One needed a new fang. Minimal investment for all. Got a phono preamp and hooked it right up to the pc. - --- dan bailey wrote: > depends on where you're located, of course, but even > as i type if i needed > to i could drive across town to best buy & pick up a > no-doubt serviceable > turntable for $100 or so. > > dan ___________________________________________________________ BT Yahoo! Broadband - Free modem offer, sign up online today and save #80 http://btyahoo.yahoo.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 12:52:13 -0800 (PST) From: Ari Britt Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT I'd rather make furniture Don't think your idea will work,the 'board' would also need a pre-amp of it's own to 'boost' the signal. The alternative would be to go to a Hi Fi store and see if they have any of those boosters that moving coil users used to boost the signal to put their turntable into a moving magnet input,they'd probably be able to tell you if this would work as well............Ari Derek White wrote: >My problem is having a decent turntable but no amp with phono input!!! ///// At a pinch, to get a new lease of life out of your old vinyl, (and if you're any good with a soldering iron) you could always build yourself a DIY outboard RIAA pre-amp, and plug that into an AUX input or something? I'm sure there'll be any number of designs on the web, not least in archive sites operated by those Electronics hobbyist type magazines. Don't forget to use decent-grade capacitors in the thing, though, if you're of the Hi-Fidelity persuasion. > >I'm just tending to replace my vinyl gradually anyway ///// So am I, as I suspect many people are. However, we've probably all got stuff on vinyl that won't, for a variety of different reasons, *ever* see the light of day on CD, or any other digital medium, for that matter...... D.W. > _________________________________________________________________ Use MSN Messenger to send music and pics to your friends http://www.msn.co.uk/messenger Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 21:28:13 +0000 (GMT) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Monochromatic=20Man?= Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT I'd rather make furniture You can pick one up for under $25. See them on ebay all the time. --- Ari Britt wrote: > Don't think your idea will work,the 'board' would > also need a pre-amp of it's own to 'boost' the > signal. > The alternative would be to go to a Hi Fi store and > see if they have any of those boosters that moving > coil users used to boost the signal to put their > turntable into a moving magnet input,they'd probably > be able to tell you if this would work as > well............Ari > > Derek White wrote: > >My problem is having a decent turntable but no amp > with phono input!!! > > ///// At a pinch, to get a new lease of life out of > your old vinyl, (and > if you're any good with a soldering iron) you could > always build yourself a > DIY outboard RIAA pre-amp, and plug that into an AUX > input or something? > I'm sure there'll be any number of designs on the > web, not least in archive > sites operated by those Electronics hobbyist type > magazines. Don't forget to > use decent-grade capacitors in the thing, though, if > you're of the > Hi-Fidelity persuasion. > > > >I'm just tending to replace my vinyl gradually > anyway > ///// So am I, as I suspect many people are. > However, we've probably all > got stuff on vinyl that won't, for a variety of > different reasons, *ever* > see the light of day on CD, or any other digital > medium, for that > matter...... > > D.W. > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Use MSN Messenger to send music and pics to your > friends > http://www.msn.co.uk/messenger > Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online ___________________________________________________________ BT Yahoo! Broadband - Free modem offer, sign up online today and save #80 http://btyahoo.yahoo.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 16:41:17 EST From: HowardJSpencer@aol.com Subject: [idealcopy] Re: Manscape again In a message dated 11/2/04 9:30:41 am, Tim writes: << But it never was fashionable was it? It sounded like a substandard Wire LP in 1990 and it sounds like a substandard Wire LP now. Yes its full of dated synth sounds and thin, processed drum tracks.... although that period mid-late 80s sound is probably due a comeback soon. (It is amazing what you can do with the software version of the Yamaha DX7 given access to all its hidden parameters.) Problem with Manscape isn't the mix. Its got no decent riffs on it...the guitars meander around where they should chop and slice. The songs are unfocussed and unmemorable. Its a complete shambles. >> True that Manscape was never fashionable, but has a Wire album ever been that? It got a pretty decent press, AFAIK. As for the "no decent riffs/meandering/unfocussed" stuff I can only refer you to to the words of "let's call the whole thing off" cos we're obviously not on the same planet where this one's concerned! Howard ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 17:37:17 EST From: StephenSwarbrick@aol.com Subject: [idealcopy] Manscape Howard et al I must be the only person that actually likes Manscape. I remember buying it on LP and being disappointed. It is true true to say that there were mixing issues not to my taste. But then I bought a cd copy (Japanese import ALCB - 109) and began to appreciate its depth and the extra tracks which brought more depth through its playing order. Its one of those albums that I can pick 6 or 7 tracks that I think are exceptional and be quite happy to skip the rest. 'Patterns of behaviour', 'Other moments', Where's the deputation?', 'What do you see', 'Goodbye ploy', ' Sixth sense', 'Who has Nine' and 'You hung your lights'. Are great examples of what I like about Wire; fighting with technology to achieve something whilst not being proficient enougth with their instruments, learning through their mistakes and being ground breaking. Yes some tracks do sound cheesie by todays standards but the lyrics on that album are some of the best Wire has ever written. An understated beauty Stevie Pinkflag ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 18:12:24 EST From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT I'd rather make furniture > demand your money back! my pioneer 516 will turn 26 in may ... Actually, replacement for the 505 is likely to be the Pioneer 514 (1979 vintage) which preceded it and was duly given to my mother, who has hardly used it and never uses it at all now she has a CD player and says I can have it back! Mark ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 18:13:57 EST From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT I'd rather make furniture > depends on where you're located, of course, but even as i type if i needed > to i could drive across town to best buy &pick up a no-doubt serviceable > turntable for $100 or so. There are always plenty of turntables in Cash Converters - including decent-lookig DJ-type ones for not a lot. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 18:21:04 EST From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Manscape > >>But then I bought a cd copy (Japanese import ALCB - 109) and began to > appreciate its depth and the extra tracks which brought more depth through its > playing order. Its one of those albums that I can pick 6 or 7 tracks that I > think are exceptional and be quite happy to skip the rest.<< I'm quite fond of Manscape - it's by no means a classic but it is listenable all the way through, despite the dated aspects of the production. But I really don't like those extra tracks on the Japanese double CD version (Gravity Worship/Who has nine/It can't be true can it). They're like out-takes from Take Care. Probably my least favourite Wire material... Mark ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 15:41:22 -0800 From: Paul Pietromonaco Subject: RE: [idealcopy] OT I'd rather make furniture An electronics question? And you didn't ask me? Oh boy - you're in for it now!!! (^_^) > >My problem is having a decent turntable but no amp with > >phono input!!! > Yes - this is actually quite a common problem now. My brother bought me a really nice Dolby Digital/DTS 5.1 channel amp for christmas, thinking that I could throw away my old receiver. Well - you guessed it - no phono pre-amp. I had to patch the "TAPE OUT" from my old receiver into my new one's AUX IN. This let me play my vinyl accurately by setting the old amp to PHONO, and the new amp to AUX IN. Otherwise, everything else (cd player, dat, dvd, etc., etc., etc.) is directly connected to my new receiver. > ///// At a pinch, to get a new lease of life out of your old > vinyl, (and > if you're any good with a soldering iron) you could always > build yourself a > DIY outboard RIAA pre-amp, and plug that into an AUX input or > something? Yup - that's exactly what you do. Some of the smaller record stores still sell these, too. Sometimes they're known as a magnetic to ceramic phono pre-amplifier - sometimes just a phono pre-amp. The old fashioned needles used a ceramic transducer - that's why old amps sometimes had a "ceramic phono input". Ceramic phono needles were pretty much "line level" - they didn't need an extra amplifier, but they destroyed your records. The magnetic cartridges had much less wear, but they needed a small step-up amplifier, or a special input designed to handle the lower voltage. Well, unless they were moving coil cartridges, and not moving magnet/iron - but I'm getting ahead of myself... > Don't think your idea will work,the 'board' would also need a > pre-amp of it's own to 'boost' the signal. > The alternative would be to go to a Hi Fi store and see if > they have any of those boosters that moving coil users used > to boost the signal to put their turntable into a moving > magnet input,they'd probably be able to tell you if this > would work as well Unfortunately, this probably wouldn't work. The gain from moving coil to moving magnet probably isn't enough - the moving coil amplifier still requires that you have the regular phono-preamp in place, which you need to bring the singal to line level so that you can use your AUX input. In other words: moving coil cartridge voltage --> moving coil amp --> magnetic cartridge voltage magnetic cartridge voltage --> RIAA outboard pre-amp -->AUX Line Level voltage The other reason to use the RIAA outboard pre-amp instead of the moving coil amp is due to... well, the RIAA response curve. See - they put equalization on records when they cut them to maximize the sonic capabilities of the medium. Then, your phono pre-amp decodes the RIAA equalization back to "regular audio" - re-equalization, if you will. This "regular audio" is what your AUX IN input is expecting. The moving coil amp doesn't provide any RIAA re-equalization, since it figures you have a regular magnetic phono cartridge input that provides it. In other words: moving coil cartridge voltage --> moving coil amp --> magnetic cartridge voltage magnetic cartridge voltage --> RIAA pre-amp (and re-eq) -->AUX Line Level voltage You just need something like this: http://www.zzounds.com/item--ARTDJRPRE Hope this helps! Cheers, Paul ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 16:50:01 -0800 (PST) From: Ari Britt Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: Manscape again got to agree with Howard here,Manscape may not be your fave Wire,it's not y fave,I just love it for what it is:this apart it has an almost Clash feel to it at times and is well worth a listen,it's simply another direction the boys didn't follow up on,I for one am glad they went up the Manscape path,and I know Bart got some inspiration from it,so it wasn't the usual fare,when has Wire ever been usual? it's still Wire and a curiosity,appreciate it for that if nothing else.Ari HowardJSpencer@aol.com wrote:In a message dated 11/2/04 9:30:41 am, Tim writes: << But it never was fashionable was it? It sounded like a substandard Wire LP in 1990 and it sounds like a substandard Wire LP now. Yes its full of dated synth sounds and thin, processed drum tracks.... although that period mid-late 80s sound is probably due a comeback soon. (It is amazing what you can do with the software version of the Yamaha DX7 given access to all its hidden parameters.) Problem with Manscape isn't the mix. Its got no decent riffs on it...the guitars meander around where they should chop and slice. The songs are unfocussed and unmemorable. Its a complete shambles. >> True that Manscape was never fashionable, but has a Wire album ever been that? It got a pretty decent press, AFAIK. As for the "no decent riffs/meandering/unfocussed" stuff I can only refer you to to the words of "let's call the whole thing off" cos we're obviously not on the same planet where this one's concerned! Howard Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 17:01:08 -0800 (PST) From: Ari Britt Subject: [idealcopy] Fwd: AIM virus Online Safety/Security FAQ Important Information We have received reports that a number of AIM users have received Instant Messages from someone on their Buddy List asking them to check out the following link: http://www.wgutv.com/osama_capture.php?dII5 IF YOU RECEIVE THIS MESSAGE, DO NOT CLICK ON THE LINK, EVEN IF IT COMES FROM SOMEONE ON YOUR BUDDY LIST. This link takes users to a web site that asks them to download a game. If the user agrees to download the game, the web site also installs a secret "adware" program on the user's machine that can deliver unwanted advertisments and promotions. The adware program will also send the same link out to every person on the user's Buddy List -- spamming their friends and associates with a link to the same adware. If you have already clicked on the link and downloaded that software, you can remove the adware program from your machine by clicking on Start --> Control Panels --> Add/Remove Programs and then removing a program called "PSD Tools." Additionally, if you have downloaded this program, you may want to alert friends and associates on your Buddy List how they can remove this software. More information about this adware can be found at Network Associates Inc. just a heads up to all!! Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 01:09:08 -0000 From: "Keith" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Manscape > Yes some tracks do sound cheesie by todays standards Whereas, say, Chairs Missing doesn't despite being twice it's age. I actually like it more than now that I did at the time (particularly Reptiles and Patterns), but it's still my least fave Wire LP by a mile (which made it so disappointing at the time). But if Colin wants to do a Manscape - Naked, then great. I'd wanna hear it. And it *needn't* take that much time... Keith ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 01:11:41 -0000 From: "Keith" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] It's not the past again... is it ? > If anything needs remixing, it's The 1st Letter Agreed. The fab single version of Slow...compared with the rather ordinary album version is surely all the evidence we need here. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 17:08:54 -0800 (PST) From: Ari Britt Subject: [idealcopy] Indoorminer wrote......... I actually like it more than now that I did at the time (particularly Reptiles and Patterns), What are you on Keith?can I have some? Ari Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 20:08:55 EST From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Manscape >>but it's still my least fave Wire LP by a mile (which made it so disappointing at the time).<< It's some way above The Drill in my book.... Mark ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 17:25:42 -0800 From: Paul Pietromonaco Subject: RE: [idealcopy] Fwd: AIM virus > Important Information > We have received reports that a number of AIM users have > received Instant Messages from someone on their Buddy List > asking them to check out the following link: > http://www.wgutv.com/osama_capture.php?dII5 > Looks like this is for real: http://securityresponse.symantec.com/avcenter/venc/data/adware.buddylinks.ht ml Cheers, Paul ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 23:18:05 EST From: Eardrumbuz@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Manscape In a message dated 2/11/04 7:17:44 AM, oz_wire@yahoo.com.au writes: >the 'league table' of popular middle period tracks on the A List LP/CD >"Morning Bell" comes in at Number 25 ahead of German Shepherds, and ahead >of ALL of the tracks on "Drill" so SOMEBODY must like it. i like morning bell, but no way does it come anywhere near the snakedrill ep! - -paul c.d. n.p. (in anticipation of east coast dates) pixies-velouria and dig for fire ep's and trompe le monde ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V7 #43 ******************************