From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V7 #23 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Friday, January 23 2004 Volume 07 : Number 023 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [idealcopy] Wire by Christopher Martin-Jenkins ["Keith Astbury" ] [idealcopy] no more bargains ["Keith Astbury" ] [idealcopy] Fw: Send Your Name to a Comet! [P J Kane ] Re: [idealcopy] no more bargains [PaulRabjohn@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] no more bargains ["Keith Astbury" ] RE: [idealcopy] Tesos is Killing Music/no more bargains ["Eric Klaver" ] Re: [idealcopy] no more bargains ["Keith Astbury" ] Re: [idealcopy] no more bargains [RLynn9@aol.com] RE: [idealcopy] Tesos is Killing Music/no more bargains [Ari Britt Subject: [idealcopy] Wire by Christopher Martin-Jenkins > >Christopher Martin-Jenkins* was there? Would fit well with the BSP ethos. > > > >Mark ;-) > > i would have preferred him being there to the vast majority of college music > journal concert attendees! No you wouldn't Paul. The man's an arse. This is his Wire story ; ) Emerging in the late seventies with youthful charm, that reminded one of the glorious amateur days of Rotten and Strummer, they learnt to temper the natural flair of their early games at The Roxy and their Pink Flag debut test match to steady the ship with a more defensive approach. Who can forget their wonderful Chairs Missing match where they played with a solid defensive straight bat in the first innings, before loosening the arms on side two and picked up the one's and two with almost metronomical perfection on Heartbeat that brought to mind Bradman, Hobbs and my son who plays for Susssex, who won the title last summer. This innings was bettered in some opinions by the altogether more earnest 154 the following summer - made in difficult circumstances and still their highest first class innings. I am reminded of some quote or other by some dead author and unfortunately the rot set in at this point and the next few years were particularly lean with the team splitting up - Newma went to India in an attempt to master well publicised problems with spin, Gotobed to league cricket, whilst the unorthodox all-rounders Gilbert & Lewis confounded critics with their new approach to the game which included playing matches in art galleries and holding the bats upside down. Surprisingly, the team reformed in the mid-80's but although there were the occasional reminders of days past - who can forget that glorious comeback innings at Snakedrill in 1986 which brought to mind another quote by some famous dead politician - Churchill probably - and is still one of my favourite innings of that particular long summer. But this splendid re-union wasn't to last and although Lewis made concerted efforts to replace the tiring Newman and become the main strike bowler, it was as good as over when Gotobed, fed up at the way the drum machine at first slip was encroaching on his territory, left to return to the leagues. The new robot-like replacement had it's moments - particularly on the swansong innings of Slow & So - but, overall, the team missed Gotobeds uncluttered approach behind the stumps. As Gladstone no doubt once said, "He was missed". And that appeared to have been it - some glorious innings blighted by an almost Gower-like propensity of throwing it all away. The Wire team disappeared from view, with only young whippersnapper Justine Frischman dedicating her finest innings to them and their surprise one-off appearance for bottom of the table Erasureshire, reminding the world they were still out there until their surprise return at the home of cricket, the RFH, a few years ago. A fine, turning-the-clock back, one-off innings, marred only a spectator holding up proceedings by writhing across the square, has since been followed by a full time return to the first class game. Despite their age, they have made concerted attempts at keeping up with recent developments in the game. The two Read & Burn innings showed they can score as rapidly as the Gilchrist and Haydn, but two quickfire twenties cast doubt whether they could still play a longer innings. As the god-like Don once said when I met him a few years ago and came in my pants, "two quickfire twenties doesn't a double hundred make". These doubts were only partially discarded with the Send match. Gotobed kept tidily and Lewis looked suitably 'pumped up' for the occasion, but there were obvious signs that they lack the disciplined approach of my son's Sussex team that won the title last season and bad habits have been allowed to creep into their game - new fangled technology has encroached on their natural talents, Gilbert's guitar playing has been flailing about outside off stump and, sad to say, Newman's vocal sledging has caused some divisions amongst followers. There were also signs of the old men tiring, most notably on Half Eaten when they're performance dipped and they were lucky to keep their wicket, before eventually getting out on a high at 99.9 with a glorious century in sight. As I once said to my son - who did I mention now plays for title winning Sussex? - "it's better to be caught on the boundary than seeing the umpires finger go up after a forward defensive". And so, where to from here? The winter tour of Australia will answer the doubts one way or another. With top of the table Australia recently being held to a draw by India there has not been a better time to tour down under since the days of Kim Hughes and Radio Birdman. But with notorious Aussie quickie Philip Blakeney waiting to pounce, the boys said know they will have to be on top of their game to match the recent achievements of the English rugby heroes and my son who plays for title winning Sussex. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2004 14:08:02 +0100 From: Bart van Damme Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Sadcore Over here they call this... (better sit down)... Emocore! Bart > Sadcore genre: Rock > Primarily an extension of alternative/independent rock, Sadcore is slow, > fragile and gut-wrenching music made by and for the depressed. Themes of > heartbreak, loss, and misery dominate the lyrics, and the music itself > is resolutely downbeat — the acoustic guitars that once defined > '70s-era singer/songwriters certainly resurface here, but much of the > music is far more dissonant and intense, conjuring much darker > atmospheres and textures. Sadcore bands like American Music Club and Red > House Painters channel their pain and suffering into music that is > hauntingly beautiful — the perfect soundtrack for solitary > late-night listening. > > Related Styles: Alternative Pop/Rock Indie Rock Slowcore Indie Pop > Brooding Somber Austere Cold Spooky Unsettling Distraught ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2004 14:25:37 -0000 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: [idealcopy] no more bargains This from cd wow who sell their chart cd's at #8.99 or less...Heard on the news that this was going to happen, but didn't expect it to kick in so quickly. Dear Member, The UK Major record companies through their mouth piece the BPI* have unfortunately restricted the UK and Irish consumers right to enjoy the freedom of the World Wide Web. As from this weekend, any CD ordered for delivery to the UK and Ireland will incur a surcharge as we are only able to deliver CDs manufactured within the EU (more expensive). Delivery to the rest of the world will not be affected. You only have a few days left - so order now! Be quick to make the best of our current low low prices while you can still exercise your right to choose. We will of course still be supplying UK and Irish customers but as of Sunday 25th January 2004 a surcharge of #2.00 (3.00 Euros) per CD will apply. Please Note - our prices of DVDs and Games will remain unaffected Warmest Regards, CD WOW! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2004 14:30:02 -0000 From: "Clements, Bruno - BUP" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] no more bargains We've used play.com for DVDs, which are sent from Jersey to the UK... Wonder if they have to pay a surcharge eventually too? I don't buy chart CDs, but many CDs are cheaper than #8.99 from Fopp stores anyway. Bruno ********************************************************************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses. www.mimesweeper.com ********************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2004 14:37:50 -0000 From: Adrian Cooke Subject: RE: [idealcopy] no more bargains I assure you that the future of new music is helped by this pressure on CD prices. Just need to stop those bastard supermarkets selling cds for 9.87. - -----Original Message----- From: Clements, Bruno - BUP [mailto:B.Clements@bepp.co.uk] Sent: 22 January 2004 14:30 To: 'idealcopy@smoe.org' Subject: RE: [idealcopy] no more bargains We've used play.com for DVDs, which are sent from Jersey to the UK... Wonder if they have to pay a surcharge eventually too? I don't buy chart CDs, but many CDs are cheaper than #8.99 from Fopp stores anyway. Bruno ********************************************************************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses. www.mimesweeper.com ********************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2004 16:24:24 GMT From: P J Kane Subject: [idealcopy] Fw: Send Your Name to a Comet! well, given that Wire have a sogn about a Comet, this is completely on-topic! PJK please don't hate me because i can't type..... - --- All the cool kids are doing it: HTTP://www.EvilSponge.org - ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- Join me in Sending Your Name to a Comet! http://deepimpact.jpl.nasa.gov/sendyourname/index.html From now until January 31, 2004 the Deep Impact mission is taking names to put on a CD on their Deep Impact spacecraft. Your name on the impactor will cause a spectacular crater on Comet Tempel 1 up to the length of a football stadium and several stories deep. When they make a Deep Impact, you will too! NASA's Deep Impact mission will dig deep beneath the surface of a comet for a first-ever look at dust and ice from the early formation of the solar system. In July of 2005, the Deep Impact encounter will be an event that everyone can take part in by watching images from the impactor's sister spacecraft as they are sent down to Earth in near real time. If you want to know that your name went to a comet and became part of one of the most exciting events in the history of space exploration, then sign up now on Send Your Name to a Comet and tell all your friends so they can sign up too. They provide you with an email announcement so you can contact your friends and relatives about this campaign. Deep Impact is a NASA Discovery Mission, eighth in a series of low-cost, highly focused space science investigations. For more information about the campaign, please visit http://deepimpact.jpl.nasa.gov/sendyourname/index.html. For more information about the Deep Impact mission, please visit http://deepimpact.jpl.nasa.gov. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2004 16:57:19 -0000 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] no more bargains > I assure you that the future of new music is helped by this pressure on CD > prices. Just need to stop those bastard supermarkets selling cds for 9.87. And then people can buy them from Virgin or HMV for a few quid more. Are you suggesting I should buy The Beatles Let It Be Naked (to name a recent chart album I like) from Virgin for #12.99 (plus travel and car parking fees) instead of picking it whilst getting my tins of beans and fresh veg from Tesco's a couple of miles down the road for three quid less. Don't say spend extra and get it from your local independent record shop because that battle has already been lost - unless I make a special trip and go to Wrexham, a place I seldom shop, or make an altogether bigger journey to Liverpool or Manchester, there aren't any round here (and sadly that includes the Fopp chain). I think a tenner is a reasonable price to pay for a cd, but obviously I'll pay extra if it's none chart. But more and more of my purchases are from the net (got the last Broadcast and Mogwai albums for under a tenner from Sister Ray - is that wrong too?) If there was any evidence that record companies were usng the money to subsidise young struggling bands I would have some sympathy with your argument, but it seems to me that if your first album doesn't go gold you're out on yer arse. Ultimately all higher prices are are going to lead to is more people copying discs or buying pirates off the market, which is what record companies are supposedly supposed to be fighting. Keith ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2004 17:06:05 -0000 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: [idealcopy] Fall News Found this on another list... One of the most interesting performances I've seen was the Fall at Worthing Assembly Rooms 96/97? Here, the 1950's are still extant, passing through some sort of airlock on the way in - you breathe genuine Home Service grey air. It's more suited to a meeting of the Home Guard or followers of W. Banting than performances by amplified music groups. The Rolling Stones notably employed Hell's Angels to marshal events, this one has a chapter of the WI operating the bar, cloakrooms etc. The Continuity Wing of Chelsea Pensioners act as commissionaires. The bizarre evening was heightened by Mark E.'s drunkenness. At first he was hardly able to stand let alone sing. After a couple of unsuccessful attempts to approach the microphone he kicked an amp, threw a guitar, fell over and writhed about a bit, had more to drink then crawled off the back of the stage. The band gave no impression of surprise and played a couple of instrumentals and then they left the stage too. It was difficult to know if that was the end before it'd really begun, so some audience members complained to the venue management (or possibly the WI) who apparently administered a horse tranquillizer or something. Mark E. then waltzed back out with the band, played a couple of songs (Mr Pharmacist being one of them) quite normally. He then started to taunt the keyboard player (Brix? I think this was her sort-lived return to the band) by first trying grab her guitar and then trying to play the keys with his arse and then attempting to buttock the instrument over. She was impressively unfazed at first and then abandoned the keyboard for her guitar. He then went off stage again and an audience member jumped up and completed the song. Returning, he sang half a song into a drum microphone whilst leaning against the bassist. He fell over again and was carried off by bassist and drummer. Guitarist apologised and said he'd had enough and quit (did he?). End of show. Mini riot. Management again complained too (not by me though - excellent entertainment). We actually got the ticket money back! Next day in the Brighton Evening Argus: 'Disgrace, Unprofessional (unprofessional? He's in a rock band, he's not a bloody dentist), A Sad End. Well, they were wrong about his end - I'm going along tomorrow. Although I bought the ticket to see the Magic Band without knowing what the support was, I'll be out of Gordon's Wine bar in plenty of time to see Mark E again. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2004 12:09:32 -0500 From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] no more bargains >And then people can buy them from Virgin or HMV for a few quid more. > >Are you suggesting I should buy The Beatles Let It Be Naked (to name a >recent chart album I like) from Virgin for #12.99 (plus travel and car >parking fees) instead of picking it whilst getting my tins of beans and >fresh veg from Tesco's a couple of miles down the road for three quid less. ////well if everyone did that , HMV/virgin would be out of business and you wouldn't have anywhere but tescos to buy your music. who of course are only interested in carrying a stock of maybe 30 discs so there'd be no choice any more. i've never bought a cd from a supermarket , seem wrong somehow. i'd hardly stick up for hmv/virgin at length , but at least they have a vague interest in stocking a cross-section of music. be a shame to kill that off. >Don't say spend extra and get it from your local independent record shop >because that battle has already been lost - unless I make a special trip and >go to Wrexham, a place I seldom shop, or make an altogether bigger journey >to Liverpool or Manchester, there aren't any round here (and sadly that >includes the Fopp chain). /////fopp is great , but only for old releases where they seem to have bought piles of unsold stock. unless you're in a big city the "indie shop" option has been replaced by the net really. >I think a tenner is a reasonable price to pay for a cd, but obviously I'll >pay extra if it's none chart. But more and more of my purchases are from the >net (got the last Broadcast and Mogwai albums for under a tenner from Sister >Ray - is that wrong too?) /////most people have not much choice but the net for this kind of stuff > >If there was any evidence that record companies were usng the money to >subsidise young struggling bands I would have some sympathy with your >argument, but it seems to me that if your first album doesn't go gold you're >out on yer arse. ///////take revenge by always downloading big label albums. you know it makes sense. mind you , does raise a smile when i hear certain acts have been fired...... > >Ultimately all higher prices are are going to lead to is more people copying >discs or buying pirates off the market, which is what record companies are >supposedly supposed to be fighting. /////i see kazaa is trying to "go straight". i guess the next battle for record companies is to try and attack download sites , apparently they've really gone for kazaa lite and its now very hard to find anyone offerring the software to download. shame , its good. but soulseek is better. p >Keith ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2004 17:25:29 -0000 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] no more bargains > >Are you suggesting I should buy The Beatles Let It Be Naked (to name a > >recent chart album I like) from Virgin for #12.99 (plus travel and car > >parking fees) instead of picking it whilst getting my tins of beans and > >fresh veg from Tesco's a couple of miles down the road for three quid less. > > ////well if everyone did that , HMV/virgin would be out of business and you wouldn't have anywhere but tescos to buy your music. who of course are only interested in carrying a stock of maybe 30 discs so there'd be no choice any more. i've never bought a cd from a supermarket , seem wrong somehow. i'd hardly stick up for hmv/virgin at length , but at least they have a vague interest in stocking a cross-section of music. be a shame to kill that off. I accept your point, but I'd have more sympathy with this well-aired argument if Virgin/HMV weren't so fucking expensive (have you seen how many of their non-chart releases are coming at #15.99 and #16.99!) and if people were more consistent with their principles and only bough their tins of beans and cabbage from their corner shop. Is buying stuff from a supermarket really any worse than downloading stuff off the net for free? Can't buy into this argument at all to be honest. The bottom line re CD Wow is that I got Kraftwerks last cd for #8.99. Now it would cost #10.99. Who's benefitting from that? Not me. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2004 17:20:23 -0000 From: Adrian Cooke Subject: RE: [idealcopy] no more bargains "If there was any evidence that record companies were usng the money to subsidise young struggling bands I would have some sympathy with your argument, but it seems to me that if your first album doesn't go gold you're out on yer arse." Exactly. Because their selling too many of their albums in Tesco's for a loss they don't have any money for to wait for bands to break. Also it devalues music product as a whole. SO the indie labels aren't competing on a level playing ground. Tesco's couldn't give a shit about music. - -----Original Message----- From: Keith Astbury [mailto:keith.astbury10@virgin.net] Sent: 22 January 2004 16:57 To: idealcopy@smoe.org Subject: Re: [idealcopy] no more bargains > I assure you that the future of new music is helped by this pressure on CD > prices. Just need to stop those bastard supermarkets selling cds for 9.87. And then people can buy them from Virgin or HMV for a few quid more. Are you suggesting I should buy The Beatles Let It Be Naked (to name a recent chart album I like) from Virgin for #12.99 (plus travel and car parking fees) instead of picking it whilst getting my tins of beans and fresh veg from Tesco's a couple of miles down the road for three quid less. Don't say spend extra and get it from your local independent record shop because that battle has already been lost - unless I make a special trip and go to Wrexham, a place I seldom shop, or make an altogether bigger journey to Liverpool or Manchester, there aren't any round here (and sadly that includes the Fopp chain). I think a tenner is a reasonable price to pay for a cd, but obviously I'll pay extra if it's none chart. But more and more of my purchases are from the net (got the last Broadcast and Mogwai albums for under a tenner from Sister Ray - is that wrong too?) If there was any evidence that record companies were usng the money to subsidise young struggling bands I would have some sympathy with your argument, but it seems to me that if your first album doesn't go gold you're out on yer arse. Ultimately all higher prices are are going to lead to is more people copying discs or buying pirates off the market, which is what record companies are supposedly supposed to be fighting. Keith ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2004 13:24:14 -0500 From: "Eric Klaver" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] Tesos is Killing Music/no more bargains Not sure how it is in the UK, but in Canada retail pricing (I used to be a manager in a "big box" bookstore) is based on a number of factors, first of which is: What price can a particular market bear? B: turn over is a factor. A book (or CD) that sits longer on a shelf costs the retailer more money. A CD with a high turnover rate can be sold for a lower price than indies and back list items because they linger for a longer time. iii: margin, margin, margin. Tescos can offer cheaper CDs because supermarkets, as a matter of course, operate on lower margins. In Canada (as of 1995) supermarkets profit margins ran 3-5% (based on wholesale price) as opposed to retailers at 30-50% (this incidentally is why I can buy bags of soil in the spring for 50% less at Loblaws than at my nursery, but I digress). As for the impact on a record company, my guess is that the record company is making the same amount of money from Tescos as HMV/Virgin. If Tescos were getting a deal on CDs that HMV/Virgin were not, you would certainly hear about it. Eric in Toronto - -----Original Message----- From: owner-idealcopy@smoe.org [mailto:owner-idealcopy@smoe.org]On Behalf Of Adrian Cooke Sent: January 22, 2004 12:20 PM To: 'idealcopy@smoe.org' Subject: RE: [idealcopy] no more bargains "If there was any evidence that record companies were usng the money to subsidise young struggling bands I would have some sympathy with your argument, but it seems to me that if your first album doesn't go gold you're out on yer arse." Exactly. Because their selling too many of their albums in Tesco's for a loss they don't have any money for to wait for bands to break. Also it devalues music product as a whole. SO the indie labels aren't competing on a level playing ground. Tesco's couldn't give a shit about music. - -----Original Message----- From: Keith Astbury [mailto:keith.astbury10@virgin.net] Sent: 22 January 2004 16:57 To: idealcopy@smoe.org Subject: Re: [idealcopy] no more bargains > I assure you that the future of new music is helped by this pressure on CD > prices. Just need to stop those bastard supermarkets selling cds for 9.87. And then people can buy them from Virgin or HMV for a few quid more. Are you suggesting I should buy The Beatles Let It Be Naked (to name a recent chart album I like) from Virgin for #12.99 (plus travel and car parking fees) instead of picking it whilst getting my tins of beans and fresh veg from Tesco's a couple of miles down the road for three quid less. Don't say spend extra and get it from your local independent record shop because that battle has already been lost - unless I make a special trip and go to Wrexham, a place I seldom shop, or make an altogether bigger journey to Liverpool or Manchester, there aren't any round here (and sadly that includes the Fopp chain). I think a tenner is a reasonable price to pay for a cd, but obviously I'll pay extra if it's none chart. But more and more of my purchases are from the net (got the last Broadcast and Mogwai albums for under a tenner from Sister Ray - is that wrong too?) If there was any evidence that record companies were usng the money to subsidise young struggling bands I would have some sympathy with your argument, but it seems to me that if your first album doesn't go gold you're out on yer arse. Ultimately all higher prices are are going to lead to is more people copying discs or buying pirates off the market, which is what record companies are supposedly supposed to be fighting. Keith ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2004 14:11:45 EST From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Fall News > >>He then started to taunt the keyboard player (Brix? I think this was her > sort-lived return to the band)<< > > That would be Julia Nagle, not Brix. MES ended up in NYC chokey for slapping > her about around this time. Nevertheless she stayed in the Fall till late > 2000. By 1998 the Fall consisted of MES, Julia, a drummer and a female > bassist. I saw this line-up at the LA2 that year. Still sounded like the Fall, > despite my reservations. Being a staunch Hanley/Scanlon fan I'd imagined that gig > was going to be dreadful. It wasn't. - MES's "granny on bongos" quote comes > from this time. He's not wrong. > > Mark ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2004 14:26:29 EST From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] no more bargains I> > > I accept your point, but I'd have more sympathy with this well-aired > argument if Virgin/HMV weren't so fucking expensive (have you seen how many > of their non-chart releases are coming at #15.99 and #16.99!) and if people > were more consistent with their principles and only bough their tins of > beans and cabbage from their corner shop. > > Is buying stuff from a supermarket really any worse than downloading stuff > off the net for free? ///////well i suppose if you use downloading to make up copies of the new liberty x album , a temptation to which i have yet to succumb , then maybe that's right. but 99% of what i've ever downloaded is no way ever going to be available in droitwich safeways , my usual bean-purchasing haunt. i've always seen it that you were just killing choice if you go along with supermarket cd's for the very few you might fancy buying. > > Can't buy into this argument at all to be honest. > > The bottom line re CD Wow is that I got Kraftwerks last cd for #8.99. Now it > would cost #10.99. > ////// but CD wow presumably is offerring a decent range of stuff , so you couldn't say they were undermining things in the way tesco was. kraftwerk in safeways seems .......unlikely. and in answer to adrians mail , i really don't think labels are selling to tesco's "at a loss". reduced margins maybe , but still at #10 i reckon there's pleanty of profit to be had or they wouldn't do the deal. wonder what a cd costs in the US now? p ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2004 19:30:57 -0000 From: "Andrew Lumbard" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] no more bargains Hmmm...tricky one. Stuff coming in or out of Channel Isles is subject to the same Customs and import/export duty, and requires appropriate paperwork as you would for any non-EU country. Unless it is travelling by Royal Mail. Bizarre indeed. But I tend to think that if the BPI have done this to CDWOW (Hong Kong?), then they will find a way of doing it to Play.com, probably in the form of an import/export tax. AndyL (DHL) >> -----Original Message----- >> From: owner-idealcopy@smoe.org [mailto:owner-idealcopy@smoe.org]On >> Behalf Of Clements, Bruno - BUP >> Sent: 22 January 2004 14:30 >> To: 'idealcopy@smoe.org' >> Subject: RE: [idealcopy] no more bargains >> >> >> We've used play.com for DVDs, which are sent from Jersey to the >> UK... Wonder >> if they have to pay a surcharge eventually too? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2004 20:34:10 -0000 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] no more bargains >Tesco's couldn't give a shit about music. And Virgin do? HMV? EMI??? That's enough rants for one day. Just called the subscribers on the Julian Cope list a load of fucking Sun readers! I'm going for a lie down and some Day Nurse ; ) Keith (Flu-ridden!) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2004 13:09:11 -0800 (PST) From: Ari Britt Subject: Re: [idealcopy] no more bargains Seems the prices in Blighty are still outrageously high,y'all ought to check out www.djangos.com to compare,and www.deeepdiscountdvd.com to compare prices for what we over the pond pay for the,Blighty,the ugly face of capitalism.....Ari Keith Astbury wrote:This from cd wow who sell their chart cd's at #8.99 or less...Heard on the news that this was going to happen, but didn't expect it to kick in so quickly. Dear Member, The UK Major record companies through their mouth piece the BPI* have unfortunately restricted the UK and Irish consumers right to enjoy the freedom of the World Wide Web. As from this weekend, any CD ordered for delivery to the UK and Ireland will incur a surcharge as we are only able to deliver CDs manufactured within the EU (more expensive). Delivery to the rest of the world will not be affected. You only have a few days left - so order now! Be quick to make the best of our current low low prices while you can still exercise your right to choose. We will of course still be supplying UK and Irish customers but as of Sunday 25th January 2004 a surcharge of #2.00 (3.00 Euros) per CD will apply. Please Note - our prices of DVDs and Games will remain unaffected Warmest Regards, CD WOW! Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2004 16:24:42 EST From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] no more bargains In a message dated 1/22/04 3:15:44 PM Central Standard Time, threeduggaduggas@yahoo.com writes: > Seems the prices in Blighty are still outrageously high,y'all ought to check > out www.djangos.com to compare,and www.deeepdiscountdvd.com to compare prices > for what we over the pond pay for the,Blighty,the ugly face of capitalism..... > Ari > ARI ! shhhhhhhh....don't tell too many people about Djangos.....too much competition for the used stuff already! RL ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2004 13:25:14 -0800 (PST) From: Ari Britt Subject: RE: [idealcopy] Tesos is Killing Music/no more bargains you would be correct in your assumptions Eric,high turnover at low margin equals bigger profits that low turnover at higher prices,shame indie record stores haven't,for the main,realized this,there is one indy record store in Chapel Hill that has (they're called Schoolkids and are a few minutes walk from campus) and they ALWAYS have lotsa people in their store purchasing stuff......A Eric Klaver wrote:Not sure how it is in the UK, but in Canada retail pricing (I used to be a manager in a "big box" bookstore) is based on a number of factors, first of which is: What price can a particular market bear? B: turn over is a factor. A book (or CD) that sits longer on a shelf costs the retailer more money. A CD with a high turnover rate can be sold for a lower price than indies and back list items because they linger for a longer time. iii: margin, margin, margin. Tescos can offer cheaper CDs because supermarkets, as a matter of course, operate on lower margins. In Canada (as of 1995) supermarkets profit margins ran 3-5% (based on wholesale price) as opposed to retailers at 30-50% (this incidentally is why I can buy bags of soil in the spring for 50% less at Loblaws than at my nursery, but I digress). As for the impact on a record company, my guess is that the record company is making the same amount of money from Tescos as HMV/Virgin. If Tescos were getting a deal on CDs that HMV/Virgin were not, you would certainly hear about it. Eric in Toronto - -----Original Message----- From: owner-idealcopy@smoe.org [mailto:owner-idealcopy@smoe.org]On Behalf Of Adrian Cooke Sent: January 22, 2004 12:20 PM To: 'idealcopy@smoe.org' Subject: RE: [idealcopy] no more bargains "If there was any evidence that record companies were usng the money to subsidise young struggling bands I would have some sympathy with your argument, but it seems to me that if your first album doesn't go gold you're out on yer arse." Exactly. Because their selling too many of their albums in Tesco's for a loss they don't have any money for to wait for bands to break. Also it devalues music product as a whole. SO the indie labels aren't competing on a level playing ground. Tesco's couldn't give a shit about music. - -----Original Message----- From: Keith Astbury [mailto:keith.astbury10@virgin.net] Sent: 22 January 2004 16:57 To: idealcopy@smoe.org Subject: Re: [idealcopy] no more bargains > I assure you that the future of new music is helped by this pressure on CD > prices. Just need to stop those bastard supermarkets selling cds for 9.87. And then people can buy them from Virgin or HMV for a few quid more. Are you suggesting I should buy The Beatles Let It Be Naked (to name a recent chart album I like) from Virgin for #12.99 (plus travel and car parking fees) instead of picking it whilst getting my tins of beans and fresh veg from Tesco's a couple of miles down the road for three quid less. Don't say spend extra and get it from your local independent record shop because that battle has already been lost - unless I make a special trip and go to Wrexham, a place I seldom shop, or make an altogether bigger journey to Liverpool or Manchester, there aren't any round here (and sadly that includes the Fopp chain). I think a tenner is a reasonable price to pay for a cd, but obviously I'll pay extra if it's none chart. But more and more of my purchases are from the net (got the last Broadcast and Mogwai albums for under a tenner from Sister Ray - is that wrong too?) If there was any evidence that record companies were usng the money to subsidise young struggling bands I would have some sympathy with your argument, but it seems to me that if your first album doesn't go gold you're out on yer arse. Ultimately all higher prices are are going to lead to is more people copying discs or buying pirates off the market, which is what record companies are supposedly supposed to be fighting. Keith Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2004 17:50:21 EST From: Eardrumbuz@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Wire by Christopher Martin-Jenkins In a message dated 1/22/04 7:32:30 AM, keith.astbury10@virgin.net writes: >> >Christopher Martin-Jenkins* was there? Would fit well with the BSP ethos. > >> > > >> >Mark ;-) > >> > >> i would have preferred him being there to the vast majority of college > >music > >> journal concert attendees! > > > >No you wouldn't Paul. The man's an arse. > > > >This is his Wire story ; ) > > > >Emerging in the late seventies with youthful charm, that reminded one of >the > >glorious amateur days of Rotten and Strummer, they learnt to temper the > >natural flair of their early games at The Roxy and their Pink Flag debut > >test match to steady the ship with a more defensive approach. alright, the cricket joke (uh, metaphor?) got tired fast...but i'm not sure if you have gigs on your side of the pond, attended 99.9% by young college kids out on the town trying to be in the "in" place, and on top of that another 99.9% of the crowd being "hip" music writers/critics/promoters/band and label reps/label hounds, etc... boy it makes us fans feel like we're a minority. this happens at a lot of gigs here, but it's most intense during cmj when they all come out of the woodwork! anyway, he does seem like an arse though :o) - -paul c.d. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2004 08:00:40 -0000 From: "Clements, Bruno - BUP" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] no more bargains Seems the prices in Blighty are still outrageously high,y'all ought to check out www.djangos.com to compare,and www.deeepdiscountdvd.com to compare prices for what we over the pond pay for the,Blighty,the ugly face of capitalism.....Ari Keith Astbury wrote:This from cd wow who sell their chart cd's at #8.99 or less...Heard on the news that this was going to happen, but didn't expect it to kick in so quickly. - ---We know it, Ari, we know it! All the good/independent record shops in Bristol are now a 20-minute walk from my desk - which doesn't make lunchtime shopping practical. HMV/Virgin are temptingly closer - well, at least they are tempting when there's a sale on! At least the guy with the second-hand CD stall in St Nicholas Street Market is keeping going - sadly his stock turnover is very limited but he charges #6.50 for the 24-bit remastered Bowie CDs, when they turn up, which is the sort of price back-catalogue stuff ought to be. I've never seen a Wire CD on his stall, though! Bruno ********************************************************************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses. www.mimesweeper.com ********************************************************************** ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V7 #23 ******************************