From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V7 #11 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Tuesday, January 13 2004 Volume 07 : Number 011 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [idealcopy] Boring Toss [Mark McQuitty ] RE: [idealcopy] ["Clements, Bruno - BUP" ] RE: [idealcopy] [Adrian Cooke ] Re: [idealcopy] [Andrew Walkingshaw ] RE: [idealcopy] [Ari Britt ] RE: [idealcopy] OT: A brief history of prog / call it soul, call it what you will [Alistair Tear ] Re: [idealcopy] Pink Wire/Radiohead (was Mark wrote...Wot?) ["Keith Astbu] RE: [idealcopy] [OT] Monster! [Alistair Tear ] Re: [idealcopy] Pink Wire/Radiohead (was Mark wrote...Wot?) [Bart van Dam] [idealcopy] "silly" Wire item on ebay [RLynn9@aol.com] RE: [idealcopy] "silly" Wire item on ebay [Paul Pietromonaco ] Re: [idealcopy] Wire in Oz [CHRISWIRE@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] OT: A brief history of prog / call it soul, call it what you will ["Keith Astbury" ] Re: [idealcopy] OT: A brief history of prog / call it soul, call it what you ... [MarkBurs] Re: [idealcopy] Prog Fans on Wire List : my excuse [MarkBursa@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] "silly" Wire item on ebay ["Tim" Subject: [idealcopy] Boring Toss Andrew wrote > 'I've always heard the propaganda about shoegaze mostly being boring toss and never bothered investigating it.' Boring toss is a bit harsh. Check some out Andrew. I'm glad to admit that some of that stuff still does it for me. I've always loved the 'wall of sound' guitar thing and this was a big component of the shoegazer sound. I'm still listening to Cocteaus, MBV, Moose, Kitchens, etc. I would agree with the shoegaze > electronica link. I'd never thought of it before. My label of choice back then would have been probably 4AD and nowadays it's FatCat. On a Wire note, I DO hope that some Wire warm-up date happens soon cos we NEED some UK Wire action. Colins promised Swim event in September never did happen did it?. I think it was going to be linked with a Swim anniversary so maybe the moment has passed? MarkM ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 10:34:38 -0000 From: "Clements, Bruno - BUP" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] >>>>I DO hope that some Wire warm-up date happens soon cos we NEED some UK Wire action. MarkM - ---Yes - let's hope someone who has contact with the group (say, Kevin S Eden, or even Jack A) can get word through. Bruno ********************************************************************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses. www.mimesweeper.com ********************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 10:36:22 -0000 From: Adrian Cooke Subject: RE: [idealcopy] Hi I'm, new to this group. I just wanted to concur with the pleas for Wire live action this year. I saw them for the first time at ATP in 2002 and it was truly the best gig I've ever seen Regards Adrian >>>>I DO hope that some Wire warm-up date happens soon cos we NEED some UK Wire action. MarkM - ---Yes - let's hope someone who has contact with the group (say, Kevin S Eden, or even Jack A) can get word through. Bruno ********************************************************************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses. www.mimesweeper.com ********************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 11:21:06 +0000 From: Andrew Walkingshaw Subject: Re: [idealcopy] On Mon, Jan 12, 2004 at 10:36:22AM -0000, Adrian Cooke wrote: > Hi > > I'm, new to this group. I just wanted to concur with the pleas for Wire live > action this year. I saw them for the first time at ATP in 2002 and it was > truly the best gig I've ever seen If there's a Wire live performance in Britain, I will be there if humanly possible: having only seen Wire in the sedentary confines of the Barbican... - - Andrew (and if the Pixies or MBV play live, count me emphatically in too) - -- email: andrew@lexical.org.uk http://www.lexical.org.uk/ Earth Sciences, University of Cambridge http://www.esc.cam.ac.uk/ DJ, CUR1350 - http://www.cur1350.co.uk/ http://www.lexical.org.uk/blog/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 04:48:01 -0800 (PST) From: Ari Britt Subject: RE: [idealcopy] it's rumoured that the boys oft view this list so I'm sure they're listening............North Carolina Colin,North Carolina....................A "Clements, Bruno - BUP" wrote:>>>>I DO hope that some Wire warm-up date happens soon cos we NEED some UK Wire action. MarkM - ---Yes - let's hope someone who has contact with the group (say, Kevin S Eden, or even Jack A) can get word through. Bruno ********************************************************************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses. www.mimesweeper.com ********************************************************************** Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 13:34:02 -0000 From: Alistair Tear Subject: RE: [idealcopy] OT: A brief history of prog / call it soul, call it what you will Good list Keith and I agree with your argument that anything any good must have some soul, integrity call it what you will I would probably put Low & Mazzy Star ahead of ( ) sigur ros and if you've not heard it, 'Essence' by Lucinda Williams esp. 'broken butterflies' - lyrically, emotionally as good as it gets Would've loved to hear Billy Mac cover that... later A > > ( ) by Sigur Ros moves me. Even though I quite like > Radiohead, much of their > post-Bends work (inc much of OK Computer) leaves me cold, in > much the same > way as, say, Relayer did. > > Most great music has soul in it. Whether it's the obvious > (e.g. Marvin Gaye > singing What's Going On) or the electro noodlings of Four > Tet's Rounds, > music generally works best for me when there's some HEART in > it. And as > clever as most of Radioheads latterday stuff is, and as much > as they look > like they mean it (maaaannnn!!!) I don't *hear* a lot of > heart in it (There > There a *huge* notable exception). > > Other less obvious things I find 'soulful' off the top of my > head (and I > await the ridicule!)... > > In no order whatsoever: > > Latter half of Moby's Everything is Wrong album. (I know he's > considered the > anti-christ on these pages, but When It's Cold I'd Like To > Die, etc, have a > real soulful beauty about them) > > Head Hang Low (Julian Cope) (Peel session version. Julian > feels his way > without the Teardrops, plummy English vocals with added vulnerability) > > Kevin Shields gtr playing on Loveless > > How Soon Is Now > > Richard Ashcroft (vocs) & Brian Wilson (vocals / arrangement) > on the last > Richard Ashcroft album > > Thief (Can) > > Bolan's voice. Fuck knows what he was on about half the time > but at least he > sounded like he meant it! (and the single high pitched gtr > note on Left Hand > Luke. My choice as the most vulnerable moment in pop!!) > > Holes (Mercury Rev) (So fragile sounding it could break at any minute) > > Nick Drake (does someone's death add to feeling that they meant it?) > > That churning gtr riff on Rail (Main) > > Fall In Love With Me (Iggy) > > Ian Curtis vocals on New Dawn Fades > > Scott Walker (even on some of the Walker Bros cheesy moments) > > Templates (Silo) > > Beyond The Sun LP (Billy Mac - see Nick Drake) > > The holes / vastness / hopelessness on Moonbeams (For Carnation) > > Dusty In Memphis (esp I Can't Make It...) > > Johnny Rotten on Anarchy in the UK (forget the panto dame > perception. He > meant it!) > > I Don't Know What You Want... (PSB's) (WHAT??? Well I had to include > something by them cos this PSB's just do irony school of > thought annoys me) > > and so on... > > and, picking a Wire moment... > > I Should Have Known Better > > well yeah, maybe I should have ; ) > > Keith > ************************************************************************* The contents of the e-mail and any transmitted files are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. Transport for London Street Management hereby excludes any warranty and any liability as to the quality or accuracy of the contents of this e-mail and any attached transmitted files. If you are not the intended recipient, be advised that you have received this e-mail in error and that any use, dissemination, forwarding, printing or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please notify postmaster@Streetmanagement.org.uk. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept for the presence of computer viruses. ************************************************************************* ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 13:44:43 -0000 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT: MSP > > Am I the only person here who likes the Manics? > > 'Bon Jovi with added hand wringing' was about as apt a description as I've > heard > Ian Like it! And I'd like to see JDB with Jon's 80's haircut, too ; ) Keith np 'The Coral' (the funny little Beefheart-like track that stands out like a sore thumb!) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 14:08:37 -0000 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Pink Wire/Radiohead (was Mark wrote...Wot?) > Strange this, considering Mr. Rick Wright's jazz background... Come to think > of it, there are similarities between his style and of the other jazzcat in > a rockband, Ray Manzarek. There's a massive Doors feature in one of the monthlies (Uncut). Needless to say that our Ray used his favourite word - Dionysian - in it ; ) "(Oliver) Stone was hell for leather, the Dionysian craziness without the Apollonian side". He also confirms Iggy was always gonna be the next singer, but "that idea disappeared in the rotation of the planets". Hey. I love this guy! And there's gonna be an album - Jim Carroll has written 3 songs, and that Henry rollins, John Doe (X), Michael McClure (who's he?) and Warren Zevon are/have contributed. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 13:59:53 -0000 From: Alistair Tear Subject: RE: [idealcopy] [OT] Monster! Great link Bart... Mark E Smith sings 'I laughed at the great god, Pan' in Jawbone & the air rifle, I think it is... coincidence? or is he a closet comic freak... A > > Great titles - who can resist 'We Were trapped in the > Twilight World' or > 'I Laughed at the Great God, Pan!' > > Another the Keith > ************************************************************************* The contents of the e-mail and any transmitted files are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. Transport for London Street Management hereby excludes any warranty and any liability as to the quality or accuracy of the contents of this e-mail and any attached transmitted files. If you are not the intended recipient, be advised that you have received this e-mail in error and that any use, dissemination, forwarding, printing or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please notify postmaster@Streetmanagement.org.uk. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept for the presence of computer viruses. ************************************************************************* ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 14:02:43 -0000 From: Alistair Tear Subject: [idealcopy] way ot - mad game mad game of the week...crab ball! http://www.spikything.plus.com/games/crab-ball A ************************************************************************* The contents of the e-mail and any transmitted files are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. Transport for London Street Management hereby excludes any warranty and any liability as to the quality or accuracy of the contents of this e-mail and any attached transmitted files. If you are not the intended recipient, be advised that you have received this e-mail in error and that any use, dissemination, forwarding, printing or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please notify postmaster@Streetmanagement.org.uk. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept for the presence of computer viruses. ************************************************************************* ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 15:08:48 +0100 From: Bart van Damme Subject: [idealcopy] [OT] Spinvis There's a new Dutch "sensation" called Spinvis (Spiderfish). Beautiful piece of home & attic (literally) art. Must be very exotic for non-Dutch! ;-) Hear some at: http://www.spinvis.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 15:26:30 +0100 From: Bart van Damme Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Pink Wire/Radiohead (was Mark wrote...Wot?) >> Come to think of it, there are similarities between his style and >> of the other jazzcat in a rockband, Ray Manzarek. > There's a massive Doors feature in one of the monthlies (Uncut). > Needless to say that our Ray used his favourite word - Dionysian - in it ; ) > "(Oliver) Stone was hell for leather, the Dionysian craziness without the > Apollonian side". > He also confirms Iggy was always gonna be the next singer, but "that idea > disappeared in the rotation of the planets". > Hey. I love this guy! Hilarious! Somehow I see Ray surrounded only by yesmen (not want to sneak back to prog here) who look at him in a devoted, but anxious manner. [Bacchus]Bart ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 12:03:28 EST From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: [idealcopy] "silly" Wire item on ebay anybody ever seen this ? eBay item 3376631112 (Ends Jan-12-04 19:06:52 PST) - Wire In Vivo Silly Putty Promo Item ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 09:26:09 -0800 From: Paul Pietromonaco Subject: RE: [idealcopy] "silly" Wire item on ebay > anybody ever seen this ? > > Wire In Vivo Silly Putty Promo Item Heard about it. A long time ago, I watched a video show on PBS (UK Listees - - that's the U.S. version of the BBC. (^_^)) called VideoSpin. They aired Wire videos periodically - that's where I got most of my collection from: Eardrum Buzz, Could You? (He Said), and In Vivo. After the In Vivo video was shown, the two hosts mentioned how much they liked Wire, but how terrible the marketing campaign was. Then they held up a red plastic egg. Never seen one "live" though. (^_^) Cheers, Paul ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 17:32:39 +0000 (GMT) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Monochromatic=20Man?= Subject: Re: [idealcopy] "silly" Wire item on ebay Why would a Dead Milkman fan want this? "It is a must for the true Dead Milkmen fan and completist" - --- RLynn9@aol.com wrote: > anybody ever seen this ? > > HREF="http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3376631112&category=29938">eBay > item 3376631112 (Ends Jan-12-04 19:06:52 PST) - Wire > In Vivo > Silly Putty Promo Item ________________________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends today! Download Messenger Now http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/download/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 17:41:27 +0000 (GMT) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Monochromatic=20Man?= Subject: RE: [idealcopy] "silly" Wire item on ebay > After the In Vivo video > was shown, the two hosts mentioned how much they > liked Wire, but how > terrible the marketing campaign was. One of the many reasons Enigma went under... ________________________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends today! Download Messenger Now http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/download/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 10:29:49 -0800 (PST) From: Ari Britt Subject: Re: [idealcopy] "silly" Wire item on ebay Monochromatic Man wrote: Why would a Dead Milkman fan want this? eggzactly what I woz thinking (I do do that sometimes y'know) "It is a must for the true Dead Milkmen fan and completist" Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 10:31:54 -0800 (PST) From: Ari Britt Subject: RE: [idealcopy] "silly" Wire item on ebay Monochromatic Man wrote: > After the In Vivo video > was shown, the two hosts mentioned how much they > liked Wire, but how > terrible the marketing campaign was. >One of the many reasons Enigma went under...< I suspect it was a 'Wirs' idea,like todays bottles of smell etc.....A Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 14:13:15 EST From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] "silly" Wire item on ebay the dead milkmen did a wire cover , 12xu i think............ (now i think that egg is so bad its good and i think i'm going to go put a bid in on it :-) p ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 17:34:34 -0600 From: "dan bailey" Subject: [idealcopy] catholic discipline tangentially wire-related, given mr bessy's cameo on the first letter. these guys' segment is easily my favorite part of the decline of western civilization ... god only knows how many mix tapes i've stuck underground babylon on -- from artfixrecords.com -- Out February 2004! The first ever release of material from the legendary CATHOLIC DISCIPLINE. This is the same band that was fronted by Slash writer, and resident wild-man, Claude Bessy (r.i.p.). This band also featured Phranc (the world's best Jewish lesbian folk-singer), Robert Lopez (from the ZEROS and now known as 'El Vez'), Craig Lee (r.i.p. from the BAGS), and Rick Jaffe (from BPEOPLE), and some others at various times. We are working with the surviving members and Claude's wife and friends to release a definitive record that will serve as both a CATHOLIC DISCIPLINE and Claude Bessy tribute. So far we have uncovered several live recordings and some studio stuff from Claude as well as several previously unpublished photos of the band. More as it develops!...RECENT NEWS: We have just received 5 reels of CATHOLIC DISCIPLINE and Claude Bessy material to go through! This project keeps growing...8-3-03: more photos discovered!!!stay tuned. 10-8-03: Reels have been transferred and now we are going through them. Lots of nuggets. Some of the highlights are; CATHOLIC DISCIPLINE's first show at the Hong Kong Cafe (complete), band on KPFK doing 'Pablo Picasso' with Phranc singing, interview footage, and some bonus unheard stuff from other bands (BAGS, GEZA X...of course this will NOT be on the CATHOLIC DISCIPLINE CD)!!! UPDATE 11-25-03: Last night we figured out the track selection. The CD looks like it will be between 18 or 19 songs with only 1 or 2 songs repeating. Some of the song titles are: Underground Babylon, Barbee Doll Lost, Tripmaker, Shooting Up With Mother, Whip Them Lord, Culture Sluts, Soul Testing, Pablo Picasso, Dejame Solo, and others...this December we will conduct the final mastering and graphic layout and have scheduled the release to be out by early February. Thanks for your patience...it is true that "Good things come to those who wait"...a good example of this was the luck we had in finding more quality tracks for our KAOS release which ended up taking over a year to finally release. The CATHOLIC DISCIPLINE CD has taken this long too, and I think this release will prove worth the wait. Cheers! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 19:01:31 EST From: CHRISWIRE@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Wire in Oz In a message dated 12/01/2004 07:43:39 GMT Standard Time, B.Clements@bepp.co.uk writes: > have got a ticket to the Sydney showing Wire in March. Yahooooooooo! > > Phillip from Australia > > You Lucky Bastard Phillip (Very nicely). Chris ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 00:16:36 -0000 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT: A brief history of prog / call it soul, call it what you will > I would probably put Low & Mazzy Star ahead of ( ) sigur ros The list wasn't a comprehensive one by any means, but Sunflower or Amazing Grace should definitely have been there... ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 19:11:56 EST From: CHRISWIRE@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] In a message dated 12/01/2004 11:31:41 GMT Standard Time, andrew-wire@lexical.org.uk writes: > If there's a Wire live performance in Britain, I will be there if > humanly possible: having only seen Wire in the sedentary confines of the > Barbican... > > - Andrew (and if the Pixies or MBV play live, count me emphatically in too) > > Hi Andrew You may not remember but I sat 2 seats away from you at the Barbican gig.The Brighton gig however when The Astbury Duke & Another The Keith & Mark Bursa & Paul Rabjohn et al were in attendance was truly magnificent & we were all (I think) standing up. Wonderful. Especially meeting Graham & Bruce before in the pub. Also saw Appliance for the first time that night which was great. Chris ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 00:30:04 -0000 From: "Keith Knight" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] [OT] Monster! Sorry Alistair - a judicious search of the Fall lyric site (http://www.freedonia.com/~jeff/fall/lyrindex.html ) reveals that the lyric 'I Laughed at the Great God, Pan!' comes from Leave the Capitol, so Mark retains the Golden Anorak. Can no-one wrest it from this man? (I suggest a competition based on the works of Jon Anderson may get him). Another the Keith - -----Original Message----- From: owner-idealcopy@smoe.org [mailto:owner-idealcopy@smoe.org] On Behalf Of Alistair Tear Sent: 12 January 2004 14:00 To: Wire (E-mail) Subject: RE: [idealcopy] [OT] Monster! Great link Bart... Mark E Smith sings 'I laughed at the great god, Pan' in Jawbone & the air rifle, I think it is... coincidence? or is he a closet comic freak... A - --------------- The latter is a line in The Fall's 'Leave the Capitol' from Slates. Spotters' badge, Ron. Mark ;-) - ----------------------- > > Great titles - who can resist 'We Were trapped in the > Twilight World' or > 'I Laughed at the Great God, Pan!' > > Another the Keith > ************************************************************************ * The contents of the e-mail and any transmitted files are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. Transport for London Street Management hereby excludes any warranty and any liability as to the quality or accuracy of the contents of this e-mail and any attached transmitted files. If you are not the intended recipient, be advised that you have received this e-mail in error and that any use, dissemination, forwarding, printing or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please notify postmaster@Streetmanagement.org.uk. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept for the presence of computer viruses. ************************************************************************ * ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 20:18:26 EST From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT: A brief history of prog / call it soul, call it what you ... > >>I actually think progressive rock was more of a grammar school thing in > the early 70s than a public school thing. Although many of the > musicians went to public school, us grammar school lads (and we were > mostly lads) were drawn to something which was more complex, at least in > its musical structure, than anything rock had thrown up before. << Age counts massively here. It's hard to imagine just how much difference one or two years made - in general terms if you were 16 before 1976 you probably connected with prog. If you were 16 in 1976 or after you probably didn't. My year at school was one where a lot of people moved from glam to prog - those of us - myself included - that didn't get prog started listening to soul (on the grounds that it was still pop, but less juvenile). >> I > remember debating the relative merits of Yes and Dylan with my pottery > teacher, who didn't understand why anyone would like this > over-complicated, messy music when we could be listening to Bob - not > too appealing a prospect in 71/72 though. Meanwhile down at the > secondary modern the lads were listening to Slade and early reggae and > dressing up in glam clothing. Which is not to say there wasn't some > cross-over but I think that holds as cod-social analysis. Not sure what > went on outside the UK, mind, where the class thing was less-pronounced.<< The grammar school kids two years below you were listening to Slade & T Rex, then Bowie, Roxy, Sparks, Mott, Cockney Rebel etc. But the kids two years below you couldn't afford albums. Nor could the kids at the Sec Mod. Punk was also a singles-based culture, which widened its appeal. Most of the prog bands didn't release singles at all - Pink Floyd went 12 years without doing. You're lucky you had teachers who had any form of musical taste! Mark ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 20:21:39 EST From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Prog Fans on Wire List : my excuse > >>Obviously Mark's comment about "fighting the punk wars" was partly > tongue-in-cheek (since he's clearly as much a prog factfile as he is a new > wave one),<< I could also tell you who won Eurovision in 1978, but it doesn't mean I actually *like* it ;-) Plus I find the history interesting, in the case of prog much more interesting than the music! >> but for me, punk was never about killing the old rock dinosaurs.<< It was for me. Oh yes. The old shrapnel wounds still give me gyp.... Mark ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 01:23:16 -0000 From: "Tim" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] "silly" Wire item on ebay > the dead milkmen did a wire cover , 12xu i think............ Or was it that the last item this guy advertised was a Dead Milkmen promotional Horse-Brass or something and he just cut&pasted the same spiel for this one but forgot to change the Milkmen reference for Wire. > > (now i think that egg is so bad its good and i think i'm going to go put a > bid in on it :-) p Top man. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 20:29:31 EST From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] [OT] Monster! > >>Sorry Alistair - a judicious search of the Fall lyric site > (http://www.freedonia.com/~jeff/fall/lyrindex.html ) reveals that the > lyric 'I Laughed at the Great God, Pan!' comes from Leave the Capitol, > so Mark retains the Golden Anorak. > > Can no-one wrest it from this man? (I suggest a competition based on the > works of Jon Anderson may get him).<< That would be a hollow victory! Mark ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2004 09:20:44 -0600 From: "Stephen Graziano" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Fwd: Fw: 809 area code - warning. Dosn't anyone do even basic research before forwarding supposed "advice" - a very quick basic google search yields the following: Beware of area code scams Next time you get a message on your answering machine or pager asking you to call an "809" phone number, you'll probably want to disregard it. Then again, the next time you get a group e-mail warning you of a scam or public safety issue, you might want to disregard that, too. E-mails have been circulating on the Internet cautioning customers on phone scams involving the 809, 284 and 876 area codes. Just like a lot of group e-mails, there is a grain of truth and a large grain of salt. "We've gotten many, many inquiries about it," said Tom Hopkins, AT&T spokesman. "More inquiries than reports of it actually happening." The scam consists of a message left on an answering machine, pager or e-mail asking to call an "809" number from reasons ranging from information about an arrested, injured or dead relative, or to claim a prize. When you call the number, the person will try to keep you on the line for as long as possible to increase the charges. That much is true. What isn't true about the e-mail, is it claims "809" sends the call to the British Virgin Islands, when in fact it is the Dominican Republic's country code. The code 284 belongs to the British Virgin Islands, 876 is used to call Jamaica, according to Hopkins. The other glaring flaw in the e-mail is the $2,400 per-minute charge the call will rack up. "That is absolutely ludicrous," Hopkins said. "It may be more like $3 per minute." Lauren Kallens, MCI spokeswoman, also said the fee was grossly inflated. Usually it is necessary to dial "011" to being an international call. However, there are locations outside the United States whose telephone numbers resemble domestic long-distance calls -- and carry the same international rate of their "011" counterparts. "There are several countries such as Canada where the country code looks like a domestic long-distance call," Kallens said. Hopkins said the proliferation of new area codes also adds to the confusion. Both he and Kallens suggest using an operator, the white pages or the companies' internet sites to verify the location of any area code. Kallens said MCI will remove phone numbers from its platform that are found to be fraudulent. "We've kept a close eye," Kallens said. If customers don't plan to make any international calls, long-distance companies can put an international block on the phone line. Blocking "900" numbers won't help in this case. Hopkins said customers are responsible for calls made from their phone, however, whether to charge them for returned scam calls can be decided on a case to case basis. "We wouldn't want to see customers fall victim to a scam," he said. Both phone companies have scams and hoaxes listed on their web sites. People also need to be careful when they receive forwarded e-mail about scams and public safety issues as well. http://www.sourmashusa.com - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ari Britt" To: Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2004 3:55 PM Subject: [idealcopy] Fwd: Fw: 809 area code - warning. > This from a friend................. > Subject: DON'T EVER DIAL AREA CODE 809, 284 AND 876 > > > > THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT INFORMATION PROVIDED TO US BY AT&T. DON'T EVER > DIAL > > AREA CODE 809 > > > > This one is being distributed all over the US. This is pretty scary, > > especially given the way they try to get you to call. Be sure you read > > this and pass it on to all your friends and family so they don't get > > scammed! > > MAJOR SCAM: Don't respond to Emails, phone calls, or web pages which tell > > you to call an "809" area Phone Number. > > > > This is a very important issue of Scam Busters because it alerts you to a > > scam that is spreading *extremely* quickly, can easily cost you $2400 or > > more, and is difficult to avoid unless you are aware of it. > > > > We'd like to thank Verizon for bringing this scam to our attention. This > > scam has also been identified by the National Fraud Information Center and > > is costing victims a lots of money. > > > > There are lots of different permutations of this scam. > > > > HERE'S HOW IT WORKS: > > > > You will receive a message on your answering machine or your pager, which > > asks you to call a number beginning with area code 809. The reason you're > > asked to call varies. It can be to receive information about a family > > member who has been ill, to tell you s someone has-been arrested, died, to > > let you know you have won a wonderful prize, etc. In each case, you are > > told to call the 809 number right away. Since there are so many new area > > codes these days, people unknowingly return these calls. > > > > If you call from the US, you will apparently be charged $2425 per-minute. > > Or, you'll get a long recorded message. The point is, they will try to > > keep you on the phone as long as possible to increase the charges. > > Unfortunately, when you get your phone bill, you'll often be charged more > > than $24,100.00. > > > > WHY IT WORKS: > > The 809 area code is located in the British Virgin Islands (The > Bahamas). > > The 809 area code can be used as a "pay-per-call" number, similar to 900 > > numbers in the US. Since 809 is not in the US, it is no t covered by > U.S. > > regulations of 900 numbers, which require that you be notified and warned > > of charges and rates involved when you call a pay-per-call" number. > > > > There is also no requirement that the company provide a time period during > > which you may terminate the call without being charged. Further, whereas > > many U.S. homes that have 900 number blocking to avoid these kinds of > > charges, do not work in preventing calls to the 809 area code. > > > > We recommend that no matter how you get the message, if you are asked to > > call a number with an 809 area code that you don't recognize, just > > disregard the message. > > > > Be wary of e-mail, or calls, asking you to call an 809 area code number. > > It's important to prevent becoming a victim of this scam, since trying to > > fight the charges afterwards can become a real nightmare. That's because > > you did actually make the call. If you complain, both your local phone > > company and your long distance carrier will not want to get involved and > > will most likely tell you that they are simply providing the billing for > > the foreign company. You'll end up dealing with a foreign company that > > argues they have done nothing wrong. > > > > Please forward this entire message to your friends, family and colleagues > > to help them become aware of this scam. > > > > Sandi Van Handel > > AT&T Field Service Manager > > (920)687-904 > > (See attached file: winmail.dat) > > > > > > > ATTACHMENT part 2 application/octet-stream name=winmail.dat > Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 04:25:24 -0500 From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT: A brief history of prog / call it soul,call it what you ... in my school it was incredibly different from year to year ( i was 14 in 78 btw) the year above me were all proggers , yes , genesis et al. my year was all punk , some later defecting to mod (oh how we laughed) the year below me were all new romantics the year below them (my brother and his pals) were all into the exploited/chron gen "scene" and then i went to university and 90% of my year were MOR/pop fans ; boy i was confused. p ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V7 #11 ******************************