From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V7 #10 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Monday, January 12 2004 Volume 07 : Number 010 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [idealcopy] Mark wrote...Wot? [CHRISWIRE@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] Pink Wire/Radiohead (was Mark wrote...Wot?) [Ari Britt ] Re: [idealcopy] [OT] Monster! [Ari Britt ] Re: [idealcopy] Mark wrote...Wot? [Ari Britt ] RE: [idealcopy] OT: A brief history of prog / call it soul, call it what you ... ["Keith Knight" ] RE: [idealcopy] OT: A brief history of prog / call it soul, call it what you will ["Keith Knight" ] Re: [idealcopy] OT: A brief history of prog / call it soul, call it what you will ["Keith Astbury" ] RE: [idealcopy] OT: A brief history of prog / call it soul, call it what you ... ["Creaig Dunton" ] Re: [idealcopy] [OT] Monster! [MarkBursa@aol.com] [idealcopy] Wire in Oz [=?iso-8859-1?q?Phillip=20Blakeney?= ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 05:14:33 EST From: CHRISWIRE@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Mark wrote...Wot? In a message dated 11/01/2004 00:00:50 GMT Standard Time, RLynn9@aol.com writes: > do not believe that pink Floyd were shit in the 70's...especially the early > > 70's > > RL > Nor do I. Meddle was wonderful for example. (I think that was the seventies). Chris ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 03:44:28 -0800 (PST) From: Ari Britt Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Pink Wire/Radiohead (was Mark wrote...Wot?) Bart van Damme wrote:>> They weren't shit in the 70's. > i do not believe that pink Floyd were shit in the 70's... > especially the early 70's Don't think so too! Things didn't start to go bad till after Wish You Were Here, which I still would rate as a top album. Bart Absolutely! the 'final cut' should have stayed that way..........although they did some really 'good' stuff for their time,and were pretty inventive they weren't the sort of musicians that could improvise,improvisation was an alien word in their camp surely,for to go to one of their gigs was like listening to them on a grand Hi Fi system,note-for-note they could have been miming to an album,minus of course the 'cough'...... as for Radiohead,LOVE everything they've done,but then I'm wierd..as Keith,Bart,Robert and Alistair would concur.........make it so.Ari Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 11:46:19 -0000 From: "Keith Knight" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] [OT] Monster! Thanks for this Bart. I've just been enjoying 'I Accepted the Deadly Challenge of Zarkorr' which has a character clearly nicked for Marvel's Watcher a few years later. Great titles - who can resist 'We Were trapped in the Twilight World' or 'I Laughed at the Great God, Pan!' Another the Keith - -----Original Message----- From: owner-idealcopy@smoe.org [mailto:owner-idealcopy@smoe.org] On Behalf Of Bart van Damme Sent: 11 January 2004 09:26 To: wire-news Subject: [idealcopy] [OT] Monster! Some great work of Jack "the King" Kirby (and Stan Lee), never reprinted before, but now online. Before the Marvel 60's superheroe craze Monster comics were popular in the 50's... Marvellous stuff! http://monsterblog.oneroom.org Bart ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 03:46:52 -0800 (PST) From: Ari Britt Subject: Re: [idealcopy] [OT] Monster! Bart van Damme wrote: Some great work of Jack "the King" Kirby (and Stan Lee), never reprinted before, but now online. Before the Marvel 60's superheroe craze Monster comics were popular in the 50's... Marvellous stuff! http://monsterblog.oneroom.org Bart Hey,this old timer was reading the likes of captain marvel jnr. in the 50's..and it was a 'craze' back then........SHAZAM! capt.Ari Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 03:48:09 -0800 (PST) From: Ari Britt Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Mark wrote...Wot? CHRISWIRE@aol.com wrote:In a message dated 11/01/2004 00:00:50 GMT Standard Time, RLynn9@aol.com writes: > do not believe that pink Floyd were shit in the 70's...especially the early > > 70's > > RL > Nor do I. Meddle was wonderful for example. (I think that was the seventies). Chris yes it was,as was much of their best stuff.,A Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 12:43:30 -0000 From: "Keith Knight" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] OT: A brief history of prog / call it soul, call it what you ... Tim, this is a grossly unfair slur on 70s era Genesis (I assume you mean Gabriel-era) who rarely endulged in angst-ridden twaddle - English whimsy with a surrealist twist, yes. If you want angst-ridden you have to go to Floyd (Waters gnawing away pettily about the state of the nation) or Van Der Graaf Generator (Hammill gnawing away epically about his state of mind). Don't thinks it's fair to lump Radiohead in with the dread Manics or Travis either - they really haven't been anthemic for a long-time. Mind you, I still prefer Gabriel-era Genesis... Another the Keith - -----Original Message----- From: owner-idealcopy@smoe.org [mailto:owner-idealcopy@smoe.org] On Behalf Of Tim **** I just don't 'Get' Radiohead or all those anthemic bands (Manic St Preachers, Travis & whatever) at all. I equate Radiohead to 1970's era Genesis...yuk! I personally like passion, commitment, anger, sarcasm, insight etc! - preferably in under 3 min not 15 min of angst riddled twaddle. Obviously i like soundbites too! Tim Off to play some Sutcliffe Jugend loudly. - ----Original Message Follows---- From: Aaron Mandel To: Andrew Walkingshaw CC: idealcopy@smoe.org Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT: A brief history of prog / call it soul, call it what you ... Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2004 18:50:24 -0500 (EST) On Sat, 10 Jan 2004, Andrew Walkingshaw wrote: > (I guess you could come up with something similar for the Smashing > Pumpkins, who I was never really into...) I always used to despise them, and then a year ago I bought the Greatest Hits disc on the theory that things which really get on my nerves often have a kernel of something that intrigues me. Just got around to playing it now... and I find I like it, no annoyance mixed it. Baffling. I doubt I'll run out to grab the albums proper, though. As for Radiohead, I got Kid A on a similar theory and loved it, but the first three albums remain a great source of vexation to me. a _________________________________________________________________ Hot chart ringtones and polyphonics. Go to http://ninemsn.com.au/mobilemania/default.asp ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 14:11:23 +0100 From: Bart van Damme Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Mark wrote...Wot? > I've not read the book, but this Julians intro to "Crazy Diamond: Syd > Barrett & the Dawn of Pink Floyd" by Mike Watkinson & Pete Anderson seemed > vaguely appropriate. > "The cramping restrictions of being forced too soon into a narrow commercial > mould caused unbearable pain to Barrett - it is almost impossible for an > artist to limit himself to the attainable - but the attainable was just what > the other members of Pink Floyd required. When he came to this knowledge, I > believe Syd Barrett's tenuous grasp on reality was lost - he fell down into > the void. Thought he just OD-ed on acid and didn't fully recover! I dunno about "narrow commercial mould"... You'd think if there ever was a time to go beyond this it was late 60's early 70's. And listening to Umma Gumma you can't really say PF settled down after Syd. > It was Artistic Death and a tragedy of legendary proportions." Yeah, truely a waste! I think I'll go and play Dominoes now... Bart "You and I, you and I and dominoes, the day goes by..." ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 13:22:55 -0000 From: "Keith Knight" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] OT: A brief history of prog / call it soul, call it what you will Keith Astbury said: No-one seems to have mentioned emotion, feeling, soul, call it what you will. ( ) by Sigur Ros moves me. Even though I quite like Radiohead, much of their post-Bends work (inc much of OK Computer) leaves me cold, in much the same way as, say, Relayer did. Most great music has soul in it. Whether it's the obvious (e.g. Marvin Gaye singing What's Going On) or the electro noodlings of Four Tet's Rounds, music generally works best for me when there's some HEART in it. And as clever as most of Radioheads latterday stuff is, and as much as they look like they mean it (maaaannnn!!!) I don't *hear* a lot of heart in it (There There a *huge* notable exception). - ----------------------------------------- I agree up to a point Keith. I like music that moves me too although that's not the be-all and end-all for me - I also like music that excites me through noise (especially in the live arena [and can I just add in here that KaitO (again!) were utterly great at producing that noise at the ICA last night, a performance which will be difficult to better by anyone all year, although I suspect from experience they themselves will]. This perhaps does explain why, like you, I admire Radiohead while not really buying into it as they don't really deliver for me in either camp. Sigur Ros are immensely moving. Wire are more in the noise category. Sonic Youth and Joy Division manage to be both noisy and moving. To bring this back to the progressive rock thread, I actually found a lot of that moving as an adolescent and can still conjure up that emotion while listening to, say, Yes' 'And You and I' or Genesis' 'Supper's Ready'. I realise that it has never been hip to admit to that but it's a fact - that's what moved me at the time rather than Marvin Gaye (and still does). The ultimate emotional touchstone for me is, of course, Hammill who has heart in every note which is why I suspect most people can't take him - if you don't connect it just sounds overwrought. THE most moving record for me is, as I've said before Robert Wyatt's 'Rock Bottom', which I can't listen to without feeling emotional - and that's nothing to do with Wyatt's accident or anything personal in my life, it's just that the music hits a spot for me which if anything becomes more potent over time as I can't believe that this piece of music (esp. 'Sea Song') which I've heard hundreds of times can still have this effect. - ------------------ Andrew Walkingshaw wrote: I'm a public schoolboy, but so was Joe Strummer so I'm not about to apologise; but there's a definite over-intellectual earnestness about a lot of prog that appeals to the teenager who's not quite as smart as he thinks he is (not that I've ever been like that... *ahem*) - ------------------------------- I actually think progressive rock was more of a grammar school thing in the early 70s than a public school thing. Although many of the musicians went to public school, us grammar school lads (and we were mostly lads) were drawn to something which was more complex, at least in its musical structure, than anything rock had thrown up before. I remember debating the relative merits of Yes and Dylan with my pottery teacher, who didn't understand why anyone would like this over-complicated, messy music when we could be listening to Bob - not too appealing a prospect in 71/72 though. Meanwhile down at the secondary modern the lads were listening to Slade and early reggae and dressing up in glam clothing. Which is not to say there wasn't some cross-over but I think that holds as cod-social analysis. Not sure what went on outside the UK, mind, where the class thing was less-pronounced. Another the Keith ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 14:27:48 +0100 From: Bart van Damme Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Pink Wire/Radiohead (was Mark wrote...Wot?) > although they > did some really 'good' stuff for their time,and were pretty inventive they > weren't the sort of musicians that could improvise,improvisation was an alien > word in their camp surely,for to go to one of their gigs was like listening to > them on a grand Hi Fi system,note-for-note they could have been miming to an > album,minus of course the 'cough'...... Strange this, considering Mr. Rick Wright's jazz background... Come to think of it, there are similarities between his style and of the other jazzcat in a rockband, Ray Manzarek. Bart ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 08:37:39 EST From: CHRISWIRE@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT: A brief history of prog / call it soul, call it what you ... In a message dated 11/01/2004 13:27:09 GMT Standard Time, steeleknight@lineone.net writes: > I > remember debating the relative merits of Yes and Dylan with my pottery > teacher, who didn't understand why anyone would like this > over-complicated, messy music when we could be listening to Bob - not > too appealing a prospect in 71/72 though. Meanwhile down at the > secondary modern the lads were listening to Slade and early reggae and > dressing up in glam clothing. Which is not to say there wasn't some > cross-over but I think that holds as cod-social analysis. Not sure what > went on outside the UK, mind, where the class thing was less-pronounced. > > Another the Keith > i'd pretty much go along with that Keith.You can swap your pottery teacher for my maths teacher who tried to instil in me the importance of listening to Cream rather than ELP or Yes or Gentle Giant.We compromised in the end.He listened to my Gentle Giant LP's & I had several excursions with Cream. But even though I was a Grammer School lad I still went behind the bike sheds every Tuesday at lunchtime to listen to the run down of the chart - hoping that something interesting would break through. Chris NP Edvard Graham Lewis - Pre He ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 14:56:16 +0100 From: Bart van Damme Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT: A brief history of prog / call it soul, call it what you will > I actually think progressive rock was more of a grammar school thing in > the early 70s than a public school thing. Although many of the > musicians went to public school, us grammar school lads (and we were > mostly lads) were drawn to something which was more complex, at least in > its musical structure, than anything rock had thrown up before. I > remember debating the relative merits of Yes and Dylan with my pottery > teacher, who didn't understand why anyone would like this > over-complicated, messy music when we could be listening to Bob - not > too appealing a prospect in 71/72 though. Meanwhile down at the > secondary modern the lads were listening to Slade and early reggae and > dressing up in glam clothing. Which is not to say there wasn't some > cross-over but I think that holds as cod-social analysis. Not sure what > went on outside the UK, mind, where the class thing was less-pronounced. Can't speak for others, but for me the difference between e.g. Slade and Yes was my age. Slade (and Alice Cooper) I liked from about 7 to 12 years old, but in the first your at grammer school I remember listening to Yes and Pink Floyd (Genesis never was a fave of mine though I've always liked Gabriel's voice) as well as Roxy Music and Bowie. In Holland the great devide came around the arrival of disco. After that either you belonged to the "Blues" (progressive/underground) or the "Soul" (disco & chards) camp. The two hardly were on speaking terms, though there was the odd Romeo & Julia-like romance between boys and girls of the other camp... Of course this was social heresy on all counts! ;-) Bart ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 14:59:28 +0100 From: Bart van Damme Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT: A brief history of prog / call it soul, call it what you ... > I had several excursions with Cream. Wasn't that like... illegal? ;-) Bart ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 17:29:49 -0000 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT: A brief history of prog / call it soul, call it what you ... > Don't thinks it's fair to lump Radiohead in with the dread Manics or > Travis either - they really haven't been anthemic for a long-time. Mind > you, I still prefer Gabriel-era Genesis... Am I the only person here who likes the Manics? Thought they just talked the talk until I heard Motorcycle Emptiness, which blew me away. I thought it was a glorious, windswept single of epic propertions... Anthemic in the best meaning of the word, chaps! OK some of the stuff is a bit of a dirge (most of the albums I've heard are a bit much), but I think they've made some great singles (A Design For Life, The Everlasting, etc) and there's been times when they've livened things up a bit on TOTP, etc. JDB is a pretty good singer / guitarist. And Nicky Wire (Chris' brother!) certainly has a nice range of make-up ; ) On a more serious note, as they've recently been in the studio with Tony Visconti, I'm looking forward to hearing their new stuff. I think he could be good for them. Keith ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 18:03:04 -0000 From: "sean bowen" Subject: [idealcopy] Prog Fans on Wire List : my excuse I was into Yes and '70s Floyd in 1980, when I was 15-16, and when both bands were much more out of fashion than they are now (as was prog-rock in general). I got into Wire in '81 when I was 17. For me, the difference was a simple case of maturity; emotional and intellectual. I'm not ashamed of my old Yes vinyls - there are plenty of great tunes on them. But they sound dated, and I look back on them with nostalgic affection. In contrast, the Wire stuff still sounds fresh and relevant. Obviously Mark's comment about "fighting the punk wars" was partly tongue-in-cheek (since he's clearly as much a prog factfile as he is a new wave one), but for me, punk was never about killing the old rock dinosaurs. Wire and their contemporaries were a more fulfilling alternative to the chart pop of the time, just as Yes & Floyd were an alternative to The Osmonds and Rollers. So it doesn't surprise me that so many of us IdealCopyists admit to a prog-rock past. The common thread is that those of discerning taste are interested in anything outside the conventions of the instant pop hit. Theories about Krautrock genealogy, however ingenious, aren't necessary to make an excuse for certain quaint enthusiasms from our childhood. Sean. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 13:09:06 EST From: CHRISWIRE@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT: A brief history of prog / call it soul, call it what yo... In a message dated 11/01/2004 17:45:16 GMT Standard Time, keith.astbury10@virgin.net writes: > JDB is a pretty good singer / guitarist. And Nicky Wire (Chris' brother!) > certainly has a nice range of make-up ; ) > What are you inferring Astbury ! ? I have no feather boa like some people. I have no great affinity to the Manics either. Can listen to their stuff but wouldn't pay money for it especially. Chris ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 10:59:30 -0800 (PST) From: Ari Britt Subject: [idealcopy] CWire wrote. What are you inferring Astbury ! ? I have no feather boa like some people I have a spare one if you're interested......Ari constricter Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 19:51:14 -0000 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT: A brief history of prog / call it soul, call it what you will > add in here that KaitO (again!) were utterly great at producing that > noise at the ICA last night, a performance which will be difficult to > better by anyone all year, although I suspect from experience they > themselves will]. It looks like KaitO could be on the verge of making it. Saw their video on TV yesterday. Apparently great things are expected of the new Franz Ferdinand single in terms of chart success (when it finally gets released. It's been on constant rotation for ages now). It's a bit of a corker, isn't it. I love the way that the extended intro (a minute or so?) has nothing to do with the rest of the song. Suddenly it becomes a totally different track *entirely*. > To bring this back to the progressive rock thread, I actually found a > lot of that moving as an adolescent and can still conjure up that > emotion while listening to, say, Yes' 'And You and I' or Genesis' > 'Supper's Ready'. Two tracks I used to like. I nearly mentioned the Yes one as a rare example of that genre that I found moving, but it's so long since I heard it, so who knows. One 'clever-clever' band I definitely still have a soft spot for is 10cc. Someone mentioned still being able to sing along with some old prog LP. Well I can still manage that with Sheet Music (an album I know I will always love) > remember debating the relative merits of Yes and Dylan with my pottery > teacher My economics teacher got me into Nick Drake by lending me Bryter Layter, something I will always be grateful for. It was 1979 and as he also sold me VU&Nico, and I saw the Teardrops, bought my first Wire (CM, though I had quite a bit taped off Peel) & Iggy albums (Raw Power) I think it was a year that probably shaped my musical tastes as much as the more obvious (in my case) 1972 & '77. > Meanwhile down at the > secondary modern the lads were listening to Slade and early reggae and > dressing up in glam clothing. I went to what was, I suppose, a secondary modern in all but name (they were just called High Schools by this time), and loads of people liked prog/heavy rock. K. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 15:36:25 -0600 From: Miles Goosens Subject: Re: [idealcopy] LIST ADMIN!!!!! At 10:48 AM 1/9/2004 -0500, MarkBursa@aol.com wrote: >I have twice attempted to post a lengthy and erudite post on the subject of >Prog, yet it has not appeared. Subsequent one-liners have though. > >Has smoe.org added special anti-prog filters? Or are we reduced to soundbites >these days? Or what? > >List Curmudgeon (official) Dear Official List Curmudgeon, The anti-prog filters were actually out of order when you submitted your lengthy and erudite post. Instead, it ran afoul of the "list command" filters, which keep the list from being bedeviled with "s*bscribe" posts sent to the listmail address (rather than the server address) by mistake. We apologize for not being on duty during the time of your difficulty, and thus not able to immediately rectify this mistake by restoring the anti-prog filters, which allowed many subsequent prog-infected posts to reach unsuspecting list members. For this, we, the list management, apologize. you say "tormato," LIST ADMIN!!!!! ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2004 21:48:56 -0500 From: "Creaig Dunton" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] OT: A brief history of prog / call it soul, call it what you ... Tim > > Off to play some Sutcliffe Jugend loudly. This is just too coincidental, and a bit disturbing...the topic of Prog/Yes/Rick Wakeman has been all over the Whitehouse mailing list lately as well, with someone's final line in an e-mail being "Quick, someone mention Sutcliffe Jugend or something". For those that don't know, Sutcliffe Jugend has tangental connections to Whitehouse, who are pretty darn far from Wire, barring Gilbert's _In Esse_. Just too, too weird... - -- Creaig ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2004 19:06:42 EST From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT: A brief history of prog > Robert said... >>Pink Floyd...Yes...Genesis...etc. were the UK's version of "krautrock" wh*ch > in itself was the melding of the art and experimentalism of Stockhausen, > Cage, > Henry etc. fused with sensibilities and energy of UK/US rock-n-roll > sprinkled > with the emerging technology of synths and keyboards....Floyd, Genesis, and > Yes (and others) all took cues in direction from the > "krautrockers".....arguably , even folks like Roxy Music and David Bowie > continued the thread...<< > and Andrew said... >>I so nearly posted that. The only reason I didn't is that I'm not > sure > whether MBV, Sigur Ros, Mogwai, gybe!, and the rest of that stuff isn't > prog by the back door...<< and Keith said... > Robert - interested in what you mean by the quote below. Musically > there's not much similarity from my pov, and Yes pre-date Krautrock > (first album 1969) so please expand! > I think there's a significant distinction between progressive and Prog. Prog evolved as a specifically UK phenomenon when psychedelic rockers like Pink Floyd and Tomorrow started taking different drugs, reading Tolkien and listening to folk. And spending their royalties on synthesizers. There was a clear progression from beat combo to psych rocker to Progger. The injection of post-Sgt Pepper "English whimsy" didn't help either. Musicianship became of increasing importance, hence the emergence of virtuoso players (often ex-sessionmen like Rick Wakemen or Jimmy Page) as part of the 70s 'rock royalty'. This unhappy cocktail led to music of increasing complexity (13/29 time, duodecahedronic scales and such like) accompanying cosmic, smack-addled old bollocks about goblins and elves. (is your blood pressure rising yet, progfans? Good.) Meanwhile in Germany (and Krautrock definitely pre-dates prog, or at least exists in a parallel universe - Can were making records as early as 1968) the mindset was different. Be thankful to Can for defining the landscape as effectively as they did - being proper musicians they took a "less is more" approach t o creating an indigenous German sound, taking cues from Stockhausen and eschewing the blues/jazz tradition - indeed they were taking the same touchstones from American rock as the punk movement did a decase later - Velvets & Stooges specifically. Of course there's a fair amount of hippy bollcoks in krautrock too, even in Can. Karoli's endless soloing on Monster Movie is irritating, and the replacement of Mooney with Damo was a massive improvement. And a lot of "krautrock" (Amon Duul, Tangerine Dream etc) IS very much in sync with BritProg. But not in Dusseldorf, where Neu! and Kraftwerk (whose histories are very much intertwined) were creating stuff a million miles away from BritProg. Likewise, name me a BritProg band as downright messy as Faust? Through just about all German 70s music (and into the NDW early 80s) there's a pretty stroing sense of wanting to infuse the music with a 'Germanness' that is specifically NOT American/Blues-based. (this is a very Wire state of mind too - to create "European" music, and extended to much of the post-punk environment). As for so-called 'nu-prog' of Radiohead, Sigur, GYBE etc, there's certainly a desire within these bands to be "progressive" (though for me both Sigur and Godspeed seem to be one good idea extended over several albums). And the rehabilitation of the less noodlesome end of Prog (eg Dark side of the moon) makes Radiohead's job easier. Are they Prog with a capital P? Well not to these ears. No more so than, say, 154 or Secondhand Daylight (certainly albums that represented "progression" from onechewfreefaw punk). They're progressive for sure, but avoid the aforementioned stylistic unacceptableness of Prog. Of course the acid test for all these bands is unknown. Has anybody got close enough to them to check if they smell of goats? Mark ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 16:41:20 EST From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] [OT] Monster! In a message dated 1/11/04 3:29:53 AM Central Standard Time, bartvandamme@home.nl writes: > Some great work of Jack "the King" Kirby (and Stan Lee), never reprinted > before, but now online. Before the Marvel 60's superheroe craze Monster > comics were popular in the 50's... Marvellous stuff! > > http://monsterblog.oneroom.org > > Bart > thanks Bart!...great stuff...Kirby was THE man.....his monster/sci-fi stuff was great but i also LOVED Steve Ditko's stuff...it was really strange...the few sci-fi strips that Basil Wolverton did in the 50's were favorites of mine as well.. RL ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 16:50:08 EST From: Eardrumbuz@aol.com Subject: [idealcopy] colin newman bit my dog... hey! happy new year everybody! interesting note (nothing positive or negative, just observation)...doesn't seem i've missed anything! gome for over two weeks and the first post i receive "on returning" is about prog and goat smell!!! ahh, it's good to be back... cheers, another the paul ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 21:26:27 -0000 From: "Ian B" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT: MSP - ----- Original Message ----- From: Keith Astbury > Am I the only person here who likes the Manics? > OK some of the stuff is a bit of a dirge 'Bon Jovi with added hand wringing' was about as apt a description as I've heard Ian np Matmos - The Civil War (latest four quid acquisition from bargains rack of previously mentioned local record shop) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 18:39:26 EST From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] [OT] Monster! > >>Great titles - who can resist 'We Were trapped in the Twilight World' or > 'I Laughed at the Great God, Pan!'<< The latter is a line in The Fall's 'Leave the Capitol' from Slates. Spotters' badge, Ron. Mark ;-) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 13:53:48 +1100 (EST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Phillip=20Blakeney?= Subject: [idealcopy] Wire in Oz I have got a ticket to the Sydney showing Wire in March. Yahooooooooo! Phillip from Australia - --------------------------------- Yahoo! Personals - - New people, new possibilities. FREE for a limited time! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 07:34:23 -0000 From: "Clements, Bruno - BUP" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] Wire in Oz - -----Original Message----- From: Phillip Blakeney [mailto:oz_wire@yahoo.com.au] Sent: 12 January 2004 02:54 To: idealcopy@smoe.org Subject: [idealcopy] Wire in Oz I have got a ticket to the Sydney showing Wire in March. Yahooooooooo! Phillip from Australia - ---It's a performance, surely - and we're all as jealous as hell... 'specially as it's chucking it down with rain here today (UK 7.30GMT)! - --------------------------------- Yahoo! Personals - - New people, new possibilities. FREE for a limited time! ********************************************************************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses. www.mimesweeper.com ********************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 07:44:26 -0000 From: "Clements, Bruno - BUP" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] Mark wrote...Wot? Meddle was wonderful for example. (I think that was the seventies). Chris - ---Yes it was a '70s release, I still play Dark side of the Moon and Wish you were here more often than a lot of other stuff... Tricky for any band to repeat those successes, though Animals was pretty good too. Bruno ********************************************************************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses. www.mimesweeper.com ********************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 03:00:20 -0600 From: "dan bailey" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] [OT] Monster! & of course wasn't the table's do the standing still composed entirely of titles of marvel'sa horror reprint line from circa 1970, a la where creatures roam, where monsters dwell, etc? dan >> >>Great titles - who can resist 'We Were trapped in the Twilight World' or >> 'I Laughed at the Great God, Pan!'<< > > >The latter is a line in The Fall's 'Leave the Capitol' from Slates. > >Spotters' badge, Ron. > >Mark ;-) ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V7 #10 ******************************