From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V6 #390 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Tuesday, December 30 2003 Volume 06 : Number 390 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [idealcopy] RE: John Peel - Festive Fifty 2003/Christmas loot ["Jason Rog] [idealcopy] 1977 Punk Diary (Oi! Stop Ligging At The Bar & Get Down The Front!) ["Tim ****" ] Re: [idealcopy] OT - Bell's End ["Ian B" ] Re: [idealcopy] OT - Martina album ["Ian B" ] Re: [idealcopy] Kindred Spirits ["Ian B" ] RE: [idealcopy] OT - Bell's End ["Clements, Bruno - BUP" ] RE: [idealcopy] Sir Alan Bates dies at 69 ["Keith Knight" ] Re: [idealcopy] Of lists... ["Jan J Noorda" ] Re: [idealcopy] Sir Alan Bates dies at 69 [CHRISWIRE@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] RE: John Peel - Festive Fifty 2003/Christmas loot ["dan b] Re: [idealcopy] Sir Alan Bates dies at 69, Bob at 75 ["Keith Astbury" Subject: [idealcopy] RE: John Peel - Festive Fifty 2003/Christmas loot >Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2003 12:47:03 -0000 >From: "Keith Astbury" >Subject: Re: [idealcopy] John Peel - Festive Fifty 2003 > >Hope everyone had a good xmas - any noteworthy prezzies? Yeah. Some entertainment-related Christmas gifts... The Essential Bruce Springsteen. This compilation paints a criminally broad brush stroke over Springsteen's career and I personally wouldn't have spent money on it, but there are some good rarities and movie soundtrack songs conveniently included to make it worth having (especially as a Christmas gift). I received a Borders Bookstore gift certificate that I used to purchase Ramsey Campbell's The Darkest Part Of The Woods. Ramsey Campbell is a British horror writer that I've been an avid fan of since I was in my early teens. I've since come to believe that I'm the only human being in America who has even heard of Ramsey Campbell, but he thankfully sells enough books to people somewhere so that his new ones are still available at the right bookstores around here. Also, Akira Kurosawa's Rashomon on DVD. Jason Now Playing: The Church - "10,000 Miles" _________________________________________________________________ Have fun customizing MSN Messenger  learn how here! http://www.msnmessenger-download.com/tracking/reach_customize ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 21:19:25 +0800 From: "Tim ****" Subject: [idealcopy] 1977 Punk Diary (Oi! Stop Ligging At The Bar & Get Down The Front!) For those here that are interested? http://members.tripod.com/19775/77index/ Happy New Year & Kill Nostalgia :-) Tim _________________________________________________________________ Get less junk mail with ninemsn Premium. Click here http://ninemsn.com.au/premium/landing.asp ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 14:00:21 -0000 From: "Ian B" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Of lists... - ----- Original Message ----- From: > shame no wire. other than making mojo's top 10 its disappointing how little > showing "send" has made in all the numerous (tedious?) lists filling every > known media source. p > Agreed. Send didn't make The Wire (mag) 50 records of the year, but was top of their subsidiary Avant Rock list ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 14:06:49 -0000 From: "Ian B" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT - Bell's End - ----- Original Message ----- From: Clements, Bruno - BUP (On Strangler vocalists) > --- Yeah, but being roped in to sing the founder member's songs is NOT the > same thing as length of service! A fair point. I did read that he is pretty resentful of the fact that each time The Stranglers perform live he is boosting Cornwell's bank balance. ON the other hand, would people show up to hear only post 1990 stuff? I've only heard one post-Cornwell album (Written In Red) and found it bland in the extreme. Ian B ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 14:10:38 -0000 From: "Ian B" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT - Martina album - ----- Original Message ----- From: > > p - Quiotic - Martina Topley-Bird > /////is this any good? it got hyped up as the next big thing but didn't seem > to sell. she was on "later" last night and i saw rob ellis (pjh collaborator) > was on drums ; he's usually worth looking out for.p For anybody hoping for a revisit of the better bits of Maxinquaye and PreMillenium Tension, it might be a bit of a letdown. However, I've only given it one spin so far so I'd better reserve judgment, but it seemed okay. I received Dome 3+4 and John Cale's new one for Christmas. I've never heard Dome 4 before so was pretty pleased about that. NOt yet found the right moment to settle down and listen to it yet. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 14:23:39 -0000 From: "Ian B" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Kindred Spirits "...you could tell there was an energy pushing it. Then, when we were able to replace that with actual machines - the actual intellectual concept of doing that might have been stimulating or interesting to some members of the group, but in fact it lacked vitality. It was the new technology and that was something that certain members of the group felt was something we stood for. And particularly artificial technology. It was a perfect example of an intellectual analysis of a situation getting in the way. We just tried to plug in these other methods of creating the material and actually performing the material. And that was not interesting to me. For me music is a tactile thing. And I am not really interested personally in programming and intellectualizing it." Devo drummer Alan Myers as quoted in 'Are We Not Men? We Are Devo!' by Jade Dellinger and David Giffels (elsewhere they also quote a 1988 interview with Jerry Casale by one Dan Bailey. Is this our very own...? Oh, and the 'Johnny Rotten wants to join Devo' story is given another airing) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 14:26:14 -0000 From: "Clements, Bruno - BUP" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] OT - Bell's End - -----Original Message----- From: Ian B [mailto:ian@ibarrett.fsnet.co.uk] > --- Yeah, but being roped in to sing the founder member's songs is NOT the > same thing as length of service! A fair point. I did read that he is pretty resentful of the fact that each time The Stranglers perform live he is boosting Cornwell's bank balance. ON the other hand, would people show up to hear only post 1990 stuff? I've only heard one post-Cornwell album (Written In Red) and found it bland in the extreme. Ian B - ----Sadly the band without Hugh just can't seem to come up with decent material... Does Mr Ellis expect the royalty system to change just because it doesn't suit him? He does come to each gig with a selection of crowd pleasers to hand, which he didn't write... Tough world, isn't it? BC ********************************************************************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses. www.mimesweeper.com ********************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 09:56:15 -0600 (CST) From: voyteck@webtv.net Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Of lists... "SEND" took 3rd place in last night's "Sound Opinion" (Chicago) showcase of best of 2003. Set up similiarly like the old Gene Siskel / Roger Ebert movie review format, Jim DeRogatis & Greg Kot do likewise with music. Here's the excerpt of 'Send' review from the Sound Opinion link, followed by the entire page link if you wish to view each of their top 5 picks: Art-Punk supergroup, Wire, album comes in third on Jim?s list. In praise of the Wire album, Send, Jim refers to Chicago punk rock band Big Black. For more on both punk legends, check out Jim?s June 27th review. Note that Jim has also named Wire?s live performance at the Double Door as one of the year?s best. http://www.soundopinions.net/television/footnotes/122803/index.html The television show played 'The Art of Stopping' interweaved with both Jim & Greg recommending Send (a band's band, catylist, agelessness, energy, etc et al). Send was noted by Greg as his favorite pick of Jim's choices on the program. I'm curious if this PBS (WTTW Chicago) show is aired around the US, as it's billed as the first rock & roll review show of it's kind. WXRT radio ( http://www.wxrt.com ) also broadcasts their shows; unsure about webcasts though. voyteck E-mail message Sender: owner-idealcopy@smoe.org From: ian@ibarrett.fsnet.co.uk (Ian B) Date: Mon, Dec 29, 2003, 2:00pm (CST+6) To: idealcopy@smoe.org Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Of lists... - ----- Original Message ----- From: shame no wire. other than making mojo's top 10 its disappointing how little showing "send" has made in all the numerous (tedious?) lists filling every known media source. p Agreed. Send didn't make The Wire (mag) 50 records of the year, but was top of their subsidiary Avant Rock list ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 16:31:11 -0000 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Of lists... > Agreed. Send didn't make The Wire (mag) 50 records of the year, but was top > of their subsidiary Avant Rock list "Avant rock"? For god's sake!!! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 18:58:55 -0000 From: "Keith Knight" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] Sir Alan Bates dies at 69 I was never entirely convinced by Bates. He always seemed prone to overplaying and during the late 60s / 70s was famous for a series of costume dramas (Far from the Madding Crowd, Women in Love, The Go-Between) none of which has stood the test of time. The film that really capped my dislike of him was Skolimowski's The Shout which, despite containing one of the longest cricket matches in film history, was pants from start to finish, with Bates overegging it bigtime. Now, news of Bob Monkhouse's death is a different matter. For the benefit of non-UK listers he's a comedian / quiz-show host who has been around for as long as anyone can remember. An oily figure, with an artificial grin, he nevertheless was a very talented teller of gags and as the years wore on he came across as a perceptive commentator on his peers and comedy generally - there was an excellent two=part interview with him earlier this year in which he analysed fellow comedians and told revealing stories. Additionally, like Rolf Harris (but possibly no-one else) he has been a continuous part of my TV life since I was a young child in the early 60s. Unlike most entertainers he has never had a fallow period and he worked himself hard, right up to the end. He was like wallpaper. It's difficult to imagine him not being there. Another the Keith - -----Original Message----- From: owner-idealcopy@smoe.org [mailto:owner-idealcopy@smoe.org] On Behalf Of Keith Astbury Sent: 28 December 2003 12:52 To: idealcopy@smoe.org Subject: [idealcopy] Sir Alan Bates dies at 69 Bollocks. Another one bites the dust. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/3352141.stm [demime 0.97c-p1 removed an attachment of type application/octet-stream which had a name of BBC NEWS UK Sir Alan Bates dies at 69.url] ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 19:01:07 -0000 From: "Keith Knight" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] Of lists... There's also a small piece by Colin in that section of The Wire, talking positively about his year - the Swim releases, the reception of Wire. Haven't bought the issue so can't quote it here unfortunately - anybody got it? another the Keith - -----Original Message----- From: owner-idealcopy@smoe.org [mailto:owner-idealcopy@smoe.org] On Behalf Of Ian B Sent: 29 December 2003 14:00 To: idealcopy@smoe.org Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Of lists... - ----- Original Message ----- From: > shame no wire. other than making mojo's top 10 its disappointing how little > showing "send" has made in all the numerous (tedious?) lists filling every > known media source. p > Agreed. Send didn't make The Wire (mag) 50 records of the year, but was top of their subsidiary Avant Rock list ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 20:57:12 +0100 From: "Jan J Noorda" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Of lists... Here is Colin's piece in The Wire Despite personal successes (Wire released an album, send, that saw us equally lauded in the page of Entertainment Weekly and Artforum while swim releases two albums, by Akatombo & Aurelie, that have had us tagged as "the best label in the UK") this year has been very much a transitional one in music/art culture. The big "return to rock" of the millenial cusp produced some definite gems from such diverse luminaries as Liars & Black Rebel Motorcycle Club, but here in the aftermath we seem to be struggling on a diet of rather desperate retroism (Kings Of Leon, Jet, Liberteens, etc.) leavened only by general silliness from The Darkness and Dizzee Rascal). Oh and we've also had "le punque funque", whatever that was (actually I'm maried to one of the original oponents: Malkas's old band Minimal Compact are back on stage and make a late showing for the surprise comback of the year!), probably best defined by the fact that there is (allegedly) a section for it in the Rough Trade shop. 04 dunno, it's almost a given that there is going to be, if not next year then the one after, a reappraisal of the now "unfashionable, but not as unfashionable as it was two years ago" electronic music. I know for me one of the best moments of 03 was listening to the first LFO album in a hire car driving round Portugal, but maybe that's just "Techno Nostalgia". > There's also a small piece by Colin in that section of The Wire, talking > positively about his year - the Swim releases, the reception of Wire. > Haven't bought the issue so can't quote it here unfortunately - anybody > got it? > > another the Keith > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-idealcopy@smoe.org [mailto:owner-idealcopy@smoe.org] On > Behalf Of Ian B > Sent: 29 December 2003 14:00 > To: idealcopy@smoe.org > Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Of lists... > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > > > shame no wire. other than making mojo's top 10 its disappointing how > little > > showing "send" has made in all the numerous (tedious?) lists filling > every > > known media source. p > > > > Agreed. Send didn't make The Wire (mag) 50 records of the year, but was > top > of their subsidiary Avant Rock list ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 17:32:01 EST From: CHRISWIRE@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Sir Alan Bates dies at 69 In a message dated 29/12/2003 19:13:05 GMT Standard Time, steeleknight@lineone.net writes: > An oily figure, with an > artificial grin, he nevertheless was a very talented teller of gags and > as the years wore on he came across as a perceptive commentator on his > peers and comedy generally - there was an excellent two=part interview > with him earlier this year in which he analysed fellow comedians and > told revealing stories. > > Additionally, like Rolf Harris (but possibly no-one else) he has been a > continuous part of my TV life since I was a young child in the early > 60s. Unlike most entertainers he has never had a fallow period and he > worked himself hard, right up to the end. He was like wallpaper. It's > difficult to imagine him not being there. > > God Keith.I couldn't have put it better myself. I distrusted that grin but...apparantly he was the genuine article. He did work very hard.I first saw him on The Golden Shot.He made Carry On type movies before that. He had a very blue caberet act for the time too which was opposite to his TV portrayal. And as for Rolf - the man is a legend.Again I was about 6 when I first saw him doing those amazing paintings.When he goes then the world will be a darker place.But I haven't forgiven him for Two Little Boys though. Chris NP. Death In Vegas - So you say you lost your baby ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 16:49:42 -0600 From: "dan bailey" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] RE: John Peel - Festive Fifty 2003/Christmas loot >I received a Borders Bookstore gift certificate that I used to purchase >Ramsey Campbell's The Darkest Part Of The Woods. Ramsey Campbell is a >British horror writer that I've been an avid fan of since I was in my early >teens. I've since come to believe that I'm the only human being in >America who has even heard of Ramsey Campbell, nah ... i've been reading him since picking up demons by daylight from arkham house back in the mid-'70s -- de rigeur for anyone into lovecraftian stuff, of course, since ramsey started out as just another hpl imitator back when he was a kid. can't say i've been much impressed by his most recent forays into less-supernatural suspense, though. last thing of his i finished was probably the one safe place (if i'm remembering the title correctly). i don't think i made it halfway through nazareth hill, come to that. dan but he thankfully sells >enough books to people somewhere so that his new ones are still available at >the right bookstores around here. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2003 01:46:06 -0000 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Sir Alan Bates dies at 69, Bob at 75 > I was never entirely convinced by Bates. He always seemed prone to > overplaying and during the late 60s / 70s was famous for a series of > costume dramas (Far from the Madding Crowd, Women in Love, The > Go-Between) none of which has stood the test of time. Ah, but what about A Kind of Loving??? But then I'm a sucker of those late 50's / early 60's 'kitchen sink' drama's. This may, of course, explain why I liked The Smiths so much! (And whilst we're all being morbid, the singer out of 80's indie band The Chesterfields has died). > Now, news of Bob Monkhouse's death is a different matter. For the > benefit of non-UK listers he's a comedian / quiz-show host who has been > around for as long as anyone can remember. I was fortunate enough to see Bob live a few years back when he filmed An Audience With... Totally changed my view on him. He came on and did 20 mins or so of a very funny routine before things were halted. He apologised, said he would have to do his routine again and asked if we could pretend we hadn't heard it before and laugh accordingly. He wandered off, returned minutes later and did a totally different routine which he then tied up with where the first bit was leading. Now of course this may have been planned and might just have been warming us up, BUT it was fucking clever all the same. Still, we all knew he was a very 'clever' comedian, but I realised that night that he was also - and this helps with comedians! - very funny. Which reminds me of one of his quotes on the BBC web page... "They laughed when I said I was going to be a comedian. They're not laughing now." > there was an excellent two=part interview > with him earlier this year in which he analysed fellow comedians and > told revealing stories. Yeah, caught some of that. It came across as very *honest*, rather than sycophantic or sensationalist, even when he recounting his dislike of Frankie Howerd for trying it on with him!! > Unlike most entertainers he has never had a fallow period and he > worked himself hard, right up to the end. He was like wallpaper. It's > difficult to imagine him not being there. Yep, took the words right out of my mouth. I was saying earlier that I can't remember life Bob not being round. And I leave you with another Bob quote... "If you don't go to other peoples funerals, they won't go to yours." Keith ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2003 12:58:35 +1100 From: "tonyandsteve" Subject: [idealcopy] Wire to play OZ - Can it be true? Wire is playing the Corner Hotel in Melbourne on Sunday March 7th 2004. According to the Corner Hotel. Bookings are not yet on sale, but they say it is definitely happening. Well, you know, allowing for the usual global contingencies like meteor impact or Wire changing their minds (its mind?). Could Aussie Wire fans be more happy? Not this one, as I'm assuming it's true. Maybe they'll do the Pink Flag set and the Send set like at the Barbican - I think I'd like that. Plus some 80's stuff for encores. (Kidney Bingos!!!!! Drill!!!!!) And something from Read and Burn 3. I can't write any more, I'm too happy. Tony ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2003 02:50:50 -0000 From: "Tim" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Sir Alan Bates dies at 69, Bob at 75 Keiths: > I was fortunate enough to see Bob live a few years back when he filmed An > Audience With... Totally changed my view on him. He came on and did 20 mins > or so of a very funny routine before things were halted. He apologised, said > he would have to do his routine again and asked if we could pretend we > hadn't heard it before and laugh accordingly. He wandered off, returned > minutes later and did a totally different routine which he then tied up with > where the first bit was leading. Now of course this may have been planned > and might just have been warming us up, BUT it was fucking clever all the > same. Still, we all knew he was a very 'clever' comedian, but I realised > that night that he was also - and this helps with comedians! - very funny. And therefore Bob Monkhouse surely deserves his place in Wirespace forever. What I liked about Bob was that he didn't just retire to drink scotch and go playing golf with Jimmy Tarbuck and Kenny Lynch, he kept his hand in and was always watching (and understanding) the new comics....from going Head-to-head with Frank Skinner (and winning!) to going on Parkinson and bigging up Peter Kay. It speaks volumes that some of you on this list remember him so fondly.....perhaps he really was the nearest thing British comedy had to John Peel! His recent two-parter on British comedy was beautiful and extraordinary, almost too poignant to watch as it was clearly a labour of love and the work of a man who knew he wasn't going to be around much longer. Bound to be repeated soon....watch it. P.S. Weird Fact! Of the gay men I know, the two closest to me have both been propositioned by Frankie Howerd at some stage in their lives (as was the, clearly straight and married, Bob Monkhouse). Now statistically speaking that probably means Frankie Howerd pretty much tried to get off with everyone in the entire world!! Nay and thrice nay! Nooo missus! Anyone else? ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V6 #390 *******************************