From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V6 #374 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Saturday, December 13 2003 Volume 06 : Number 374 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [idealcopy] This Heat (was cd burner stereo components) [MarkBursa@ao] Re: [idealcopy] Rough Trade Top 100 albums of 2003/White Tripe ["Stephen ] RE: [idealcopy] This Heat (was cd burner stereo components) ["Clements, B] Re: [idealcopy] My review of the Echo Lounge show [P J Kane ] Re: [idealcopy] Mojo ["Tim" ] Re: [idealcopy] The Cult of Graeme Mk. II ["Tim" [Clements, Bruno - BUP] --- Impressive... I could do with a way of > transferring records to CD. Ah, to be able to listen to the second This Heat > LP again... It's almost worth getting a new stylus for! > You could always buy a copy of the fabulous remastered Deceit from the nice people at These Records. Only a tenner. One day they'll sort out the remaster of Blue & Yellow. However dealing wioth the surviving members of TH is, er, challenging. TH fans might be interested in Charles Hayward's new album Abracadabra Information, available from Recommended Records, which is his best in ages. Features the two songs he played at last year's Gareth Williams tribute concert (which Wire headlined). Mark ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 12:39:50 -0600 From: "Stephen Graziano" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Rough Trade Top 100 albums of 2003/White Tripe I think you over-rate Romeo Void. The were a perfect "one-hit" band, even if the hit was in the world of rock/discos. "Never Say Never" benefited from the big rock/dance zeitgeist of the time, especially helped by that galloping Gang of Four'ish bass line, 4 on the floor dance beat, blaring trumpets and a sultry girl voice singing about sex and saying "Fuck" in the lyric. But it was far and away the best track they had. And since I've long lost that album, I can't recall any of the other tracks (can't be a good sign), but weren't they on the indie 415 label? So there wasn't that big a mainstream media shun in the first place. But they were a hit in the days when all those tracks were accompanied by video's, so Debra Iyall didn't stand a chance compared to the softcore pornlike video of Van Halen, Duran Duran or Berlin - who despite making lousy records had the beat down and the looks up. Steve G. http://www.sourmashusa.com - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Friday, December 12, 2003 6:42 AM Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Rough Trade Top 100 albums of 2003/White Tripe > postlibyan@netzero.com writes > > > > << I dunno. Ask Deborah Iyall. >> > > > > who is this? > > Lead singer of Romeo Void. Kinda rose up out of SF obscurity a long time ago > with a hit called "a girl in trouble." Once they got a bit big (pardon the > phrase) in the national sense, their publicity pictures caught up with them. > As soon as the general public saw that the singer was, say, Rosie > O'Donnell-esque, they disappeared faster than a stray dollar at a televangelist convention. > > > Doesn't really matter how good the tunes are if you can't sell the image. > > BillE > =-=-=-=-=-=- > pernice bros - overcome by happiness ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 17:46:07 -0000 From: "Clements, Bruno - BUP" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] This Heat (was cd burner stereo components) - -----Original Message----- From: MarkBursa@aol.com [mailto:MarkBursa@aol.com] Sent: 12 December 2003 17:38 To: B.Clements@bepp.co.uk; idealcopy@smoe.org Subject: Re: [idealcopy] This Heat (was cd burner stereo components) [Clements, Bruno - BUP] --- Impressive... I could do with a way of transferring records to CD. Ah, to be able to listen to the second This Heat LP again... It's almost worth getting a new stylus for! You could always buy a copy of the fabulous remastered Deceit from the nice people at These Records. Only a tenner. One day they'll sort out the remaster of Blue & Yellow. However dealing wioth the surviving members of TH is, er, challenging. TH fans might be interested in Charles Hayward's new album Abracadabra Information, available from Recommended Records, which is his best in ages. Features the two songs he played at last year's Gareth Williams tribute concert (which Wire headlined). Mark [Clements, Bruno - BUP] Looks like (the rest of ) my Christmas money (after a WMO investment) will be heading that way! Can't complain as I only paid a pound or two for Deceit from a shop in St Austell years ago. Bruno ********************************************************************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses. www.mimesweeper.com ********************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 17:56:05 GMT From: P J Kane Subject: Re: [idealcopy] My review of the Echo Lounge show hey -- nice review! i was there too. you can read my comments on that show at my website: http://www.evilsponge.org/concert/Wire__21Sept02.htm oh, and in your review you "sort of" asked: <> between-band music is often programmed by Booking Guy (and my good buddy) Alex Weiss. he is a big fan of this type of music, and in fact had been talking about this Wire show for almost 9 months!!! so -- he programmed in what he felt was appropriate... PJK please don't hate me because i can't type..... - --- All the cool kids are doing it: HTTP://www.EvilSponge.org ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 13:00:52 EST From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] This Heat (was cd burner stereo components) > Looks like (the rest of ) my Christmas money (after a WMO investment) will > be heading that way! Can't complain as I only paid a pound or two for Deceit > from a shop in St Austell years ago. Vinyl copies still go for decent money on Ebay (despite the fact that the remastered CD is in print). You could probably buy Deceit and Hayward's new one and still be in profit if you sold the vinyl. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 19:32:29 -0000 From: "Keith Knight" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] OT: Hammill heart attack (was 'Night out') One of my worst nightmares nearly came to pass - Peter Hammill had a heart attack last Sunday while walking by the Thames at Henly. He's been discharged from hospital and is fit enough to update his website (here, for the few who might be interested - http://www.sofasound.com/nlnow.htm ) He's stick thin and in his early 50s for Chrissake - although he does smoke heavily. Typically Hammill, a heart attack isn't very rock and roll is it? Can't recall any rock heart attack casualties off hand. Also news on the site, Bruno, that Virgin are about to remaster the VdGG back-catalogue - see, you just have to mention it... Another the Keith - -----Original Message----- From: Clements, Bruno - BUP [mailto:B.Clements@bepp.co.uk] Sent: 12 December 2003 12:07 To: 'idealcopy@smoe.org' Cc: 'steeleknight@lineone.net' Subject: RE: [idealcopy] Night out - -----Original Message----- From: Keith Knight [mailto:steeleknight@lineone.net] Sent: 12 December 2003 00:35 To: 'Clements, Bruno - BUP' Ah, Bruno, a positive comment re Peter Hammill! - the greatest of them all. (I'm copying to Mr Astbury just because he has a friend who likes the great man and because any positive mention of PH on the list has to be shared with Keith because I feel it is a rule!). AT Keith Hi there Keiths! I was reminded of the great PH when reading the interview with Kevin Eden in Wireviews. Sadly all my PH music is on vinyl - I was very keen on Ph7 - apart from VDF's Pawn Hearts (which probably needs remastering. Virgin are a bit slow off the mark on this. Have the Eno albums been remastered for CD? My copy of Warm Jets isn't bad, mind you). I've only seen PH live once, at an intimate little show in the Bristol Old Vic theatre, but it was a long time ago and I can't remember much about it. I don't suppose it was taped but if anyone out there knows any different... The vocals on Gomez's second album, particularly Revolutionary Kind, reminded me of Kevin Coyne. Not all his works are great but when he's on form there's little to touch him. Bruno ********************************************************************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses. www.mimesweeper.com ********************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 11:37:37 -0800 (PST) From: fernando Subject: RE: [idealcopy] cd burner stereo components Oh right... the TASCAM that I mentioned uses regular computer discs... though it costs a bit more for the TASCAM, even if used, you also get better quality components, if that matters. - --- "Clements, Bruno - BUP" wrote: > ... As for choice of model it's a no-brainer. Get a Pioneer PDR-609. > Fantastic > quality. There are cheaper models but none better IMO. I've had one > (actually > the almost-idenical earlier model, PDR-509) for 3 years now. Current cost in > the > UK is about #179. > > Mark > > ---Just thought of another disadvantage with a stand-alone burner rather > than a computer... You'll probably need discs with 'For Consumer' printed on > them somewhere, which tend to be more expensive. > > Each disc on a 'drum' or 'tower' of discs from computer shops is less than > 30 pence at the moment, 'For Consumer' format discs are two or three times > this. If they are better quality I'd spend a bit more but everyone I know > uses cheap discs on their home computers and gets pretty good results. > > Bruno > > > ********************************************************************** > This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and > intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they > are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify > the system manager. > > This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by > MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses. > > www.mimesweeper.com > ********************************************************************** __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing. http://photos.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 14:52:23 -0500 From: Tisbili@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Rough Trade Top 100 albums of 2003/White Tripe In a message dated 12/12/2003 11:28:44 AM Eastern Standard Time, RLynn9 writes: > > Long Live Barry White! Exhibit A; closely followed among the living by the big guy who is an american, idle; and Luther (Vandross, for those who need a 2d name). b =- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 14:49:10 -0800 (PST) From: Ari Britt Subject: Re: [idealcopy] cd burner stereo components I have a Pioneer PDR-555RW,it's a fairly early model and still going strong,whatever model you get I fully recomend a Pioneer,it's as easy to use as a good cassette deck.Ari P J Kane wrote:<< I eventually purchased a stand alone Hi Fi recorder,I can make compilations analogue to digital and adjust the volume accordingly. >> apparently both Ari and RL have one of these, and i admit that i have been interested in getting one but have put it off for a while. so everyone excuse us for a moment whilest i ask a few questions. (i presume that at least someone else here has, like me, wanted one but not purchased one yet....) what model do you have, and do you have any recommendations for someone who is going to purchase one (eventually). my main problem is this: i enjoy making mix tapes because i can sit in front of my stereo surrounded by all my music (vinyl, CD, MP3 CD, cassettes, DVD (audio tracks)) and mix from all sources, adjusting levels, and editing tracks as need be. right now, to make a mix CD i have to take digital only sources and load them into my computer. then if sound levels don't match up, i have to use Sound Forge to adjust the volume levels. then i have to sit back for 20 minutes and let the computer produce the finished product. making a mix tape is an organic, fun, live experience. making a mix CD is, currently, sterile and dull. i am hoping that, by purchasing a component burner, i will be able to compile mix CD's in that living, organic fashion again. am i being realistic -- or are they harder to use? what limitations are there? PJK please don't hate me because i can't type..... - --- All the cool kids are doing it: HTTP://www.EvilSponge.org New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 15:03:44 -0800 (PST) From: Ari Britt Subject: [idealcopy] My favorite of the year/plus response to Miles Without doubt my fave c.d this year is by Morphine,and titled The Night,WELL worth checkin' out. As for being over 40,I'm now 60 and still lovin' life.and yes.I'm still young at heart goo goo goo burble burble.oh never mind.Ari New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 18:54:20 EST From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] My favorite of the year/plus response to Miles > >>Without doubt my fave c.d this year is by Morphine,and titled The > Night,WELL worth checkin' out.<< > > Which neatly brings us back to ATKeith's "artists who died of a heart attack". On stage, in the case of Mr Morphine, Mark Sandman. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2003 00:15:01 +0000 From: "Jason Rogers" Subject: [idealcopy] RE: image and information etc./The Internet And Rock Band "Mystique" >Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 12:37:11 -0800 (PST) >From: fernando >Subject: RE: [idealcopy] image and information etc. > >I am with you when it comes to context. Being there for the releases or the >discovery of New Order inside a sleeve, when the band is little known, has >an >experience that cannot be duplicated today. > The above point reminds me of a funny/embarrassing story from my youth in semi-rural Lagrange, Georgia... I started listening to "college music" back during the mid to late '80's and first heard New Order on the Georgia State University radio station, WRAS 88.5 (Album 88). I bought Substance as soon as I saw a copy in a local mall record store (the only record store in LaGrange). Shortly afterwards, I began collecting every New Order album that I could find. This usually involved making the hour trip to Atlanta with friends and going through "real" record stores. Since New Order had no information to speak of in their album sleeves, I knew nothing about the band whatsoever apart from the amazing music within. They had become one of my favorite bands at the time (along with The Cure, Echo And The Bunnymen, R.E.M., etc.), but I didn't even know the full names of the band members. I had spent a long time previous looking at notes and artwork of the R.E.M. albums and wondering about the lyrics/band information, but even that could not compare to the mystique of New Order. One day, while I was walking through an Atlanta record store, I spotted Joy Division's Substance. I thought to myself, "Hmmm...this band has the same album title as New Order", and then dismissed the thought and moved on. Shortly thereafter, I glanced at the song credits on the actual disc of New Order's Substance and noticed that "Ceremony" had been written by Joy Division. I was intrigued and decided to buy a copy of Joy Division's Substance to see what the connection was between the two bands. I listened to Joy Division's Substance for a few hours that night (staring at the bedroom ceiling with headphones on and thinking, "this is some fucking great music!"...you get the picture), but was only further intrigued by the cryptic album artwork that offered no information. I quickly noticed that the music sounded very much like early New Order and guessed from there that Joy Division and New Order had some common band members. Unknown Pleasures and Closer were issued on CD and made available about that time, so I bought them as well when I spotted them in a record store, since I had become a loyal Joy Division fan although I knew nothing else about them besides the music. I searched my best friends old Rolling Stone magazines for any mention of Joy Division/New Order to find out what the deal was. Since I was the only person at my high school that enjoyed New Order and had even heard of Joy Division in the first place, that source of word-of-mouth information was not of help. One day, while browsing through a bookstore, I stumbled upon one of those Encyclopedia Of Rock 'N Roll type of books and found biographies of Joy Division and New Order; it was only then I found out about Ian Curtis and about the connection of New Order to Joy Division. I miss those days sometimes. Right now, if an inquisitive high school kid in my situation were to discover New Order, he could just go to any internet site and have the band's entire biography at a second's notice. Kids today don't have to spend absurd spans of time going through rock magazines looking for any shred of information about their favorite bands; they can just to go a fansite and read "Latest Articles/Reviews". I became a Wire fan in 1989 when I heard "Eardrum Buzz" and "In Vivo". I bought It's Beginning To And Back Again and really loved it, but it took a while before I found out that Wire actually had recorded albums back in the '70's (the older Wire albums were not as readily available back then around where I grew up). Just like New Order and R.E.M., Wire had a mystique about them that I couldn't resist. People bitch all of the time about how mp3's have affected rock music. I am inclined to think, however, that the most damaging effect of the internet on rock music is that web sites have taken all of the mystique out of rock 'n roll. I do believe that one reason for my longtime fanship of Joy Division/New Order, as well as of R.E.M., Echo And The Bunnymen, The Replacements, etc. etc., is due to the my being drawn in by the lure of the mystique that surrounded those bands where someone like me who lived away from a big city had to do my own homework to find out about those bands. It's probably always been the same with older bands, such as Led Zepplin, Pink Floyd, KISS, etc... Rock music and the world of music fans has long revolved around the mystique of rock stars and around unanswered questions that are debated in high school cafeterias, around the record player at the houses of friends, etc. "Does Jimmy Page really worship the devil?" "Did Rod Stewart really have to have his stomach pumped?" Etc. Etc. Etc. The internet has taken most of this away because a couple of clicks to All Music Guide or to a band fansite answers all of those questions for a music fan with no effort. Maybe that's one reason for a lot of the faceless rock bands on popular radio these days. A teenager hears a song that he likes, goes to All Music Guide to read all about the band, thinks, "Yeah, that's cool", and then just goes onto the next band that intrigues him. There's no effort required to be a music fan these days. I sometimes wonder if I would have developed the same serious interest in bands like New Order, R.E.M., or even Wire if I had simply been able to read the biographies/discographies of the band by clicking a mouse. Sorry for the rambling, but the topic of internet vs. rock band mystique is one that I think about a lot. Jason Now Playing: Blondie - Parallel Lines _________________________________________________________________ Tired of slow downloads and busy signals? Get a high-speed Internet connection! Comparison-shop your local high-speed providers here. https://broadband.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2003 00:24:09 +0000 From: "Jason Rogers" Subject: [idealcopy] RE: idealcopy-digest V6 #372 >Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 01:01:28 EST >From: Eardrumbuz@aol.com >Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Volume > >In a message dated 12/11/03 5:22:57 PM, threeduggaduggas@yahoo.com writes: > > >So perhaps it's a matter of 'mastering' that I'm referring to. It's a > >bit aggravating, when making a cd mix, to have one song be so quiet and > >then a newer song nearly blow you out of your seat. > >Jack L. Alberson > > > >You're right on there Jack,which is why I eventually purchased a stand > >alone Hi Fi recorder,I can make compilations analogue to digital and >adjust > >the volume accordingly.......Ari > I've also experienced the volume problem when making mix CD's. I need to look into getting Sound Forge or other programs. Months ago, I made a mix CD where The Psychedelic Furs song, "We Love You", comes right after Wire's "The 15th". When Richard Butler screams at the very beginning of "We Love You", it blows me through the ceiling if I have the volume turned up while listening to the Wire song before that. I won't even mention the disastrous Cure mix that I made a couple of years ago where I interspersed songs from the amazingly loud Greatest Hits CD with quieter tracks from the individual Cure albums. A girl who had received the mix complained to me later that her ears were almost lost when "High" from the Greatest Hits CD played right after "Fire In Cairo" from Three Imaginary Boys. Jason Now Playing: Blondie - Parallel Lines _________________________________________________________________ Tired of slow downloads and busy signals? Get a high-speed Internet connection! Comparison-shop your local high-speed providers here. https://broadband.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 19:24:44 EST From: Tisbili@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Rough Trade Top 100 albums of 2003/White Tripe In a message dated 12/12/2003 12:46:45 PM Eastern Standard Time, sjgraziano@hotmail.com writes: > I think you over-rate Romeo Void. The were a perfect "one-hit" band, even > if the hit was in the world of rock/discos. "Never Say Never" benefited > from the big rock/dance zeitgeist of the time, especially helped by that > galloping Gang of Four'ish bass line, 4 on the floor dance beat, blaring > trumpets and a sultry girl voice singing about sex and saying "Fuck" in the > lyric. But it was far and away the best track they had. And since I've > long lost that album, I can't recall any of the other tracks (can't be a > good sign), but weren't they on the indie 415 label? So there wasn't that > big a mainstream media shun in the first place. 415 to Columbia. Sax not trumpet. "Never say never" was indeed the anthem of horny punks looking to get laid but could not be a mainstream hit due to the language as well as the topic - it's written about her father after all - Something in your eye says maybe...just maybe. "Girl in trouble" was the hit before oblivion, maybe as much about sophomore slump as about anything else. Still tough to think of a Rubenesque star, major label or otherwise. bE =- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 17:15:25 -0800 (PST) From: fernando Subject: Re: [idealcopy] RE: image and information etc./The Internet And Rock Band "Mystique" - --- Jason Rogers wrote: > > Sorry for the rambling, but the topic of internet vs. rock band mystique is > one that I think about a lot. Ah, it was a cool story... I had a similar thing, in terms of the intrigue. My college roommate walked in and said that the singer for this band committed suicide and played the album... some weeks earlier he had played Chairs Missing. October 1980 to be exact (I think that was the time that Closer got released domestically... or there abouts). Since then, I don't bother to differentiate which one is the most favorite band, nor did I think that all the records I had bought until then were worth much anymore. I did not make the New order connection until a while later, and it was through Ceremony as well, not having heard Movement before Ceremony in 1982. There is a huge problem for record labels now, because they chased the fast buck with bubblegum music -- or instant gratification bands as you point out -- and there is no sale of catalog albums to sustain the new bands, as it happened before. I am always astounded, though, that used copies of JD records do not last at the stores for very long, and the bin is usually empty. At least at popular record stores like Amoeba and Streetlight in the SF Bay Area. cheers, - -fernando PS funny enough... "truth" by NO on mp3 playing now ;) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing. http://photos.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 17:42:48 -0800 (PST) From: Ari Britt Subject: [idealcopy] now playing... Alabama 3 (A3 in America) Last train to mashville vol. 2,old stuff done acoustic,well worth a listen.Ari New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2003 02:08:15 -0000 From: "Tim" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Mojo And.... MOJO has made 'Send' no.10 in its Top 50 LPs of the year: "Maybe you can't teach old dogs new tricks but sometimes they learn them anyway. The most recent phase of Wire's extraordinary stop-start career finds them using dance production techniques to hone down their fiercest and most visceral rock music to date." - ----- Original Message ----- From: "dan bailey" To: Sent: Friday, December 12, 2003 2:56 PM Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Mojo > wonder how long it'll take to get down here? the clash issue(s) of uncut > arrived only this week ... on another list i'm on, someone was complaining > that he'd missed picking one up before the one after that hit the stands. > > dan, wondering if the band's unhappiness with remote control being released > as a single as made it song non grata forever ... it'd be in my top 10 of > theirs, probably, but not only does it get no mention in the uncut rundown, > but i'm pretty sure it's omitted from the clash on broadway box, too > > >One for UK listees. Picked up Jan 2004 issue of Mojo yesterday. Excellent > >pic of John Lydon on the cover and a big article on PIL & post-punk inside. > >Haven't read it yet but spotted a small piece on Wire in there with quotes > >from Colin. > > > >Look out for it. > > > >MarkM ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2003 02:35:01 -0000 From: "Tim" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] The Cult of Graeme Mk. II I don't think this list is any worse for lack of Mr Rowland. I note a few lurkers returning, and a less inhibited list in general which is good. I don't miss my regular dose of personal insults from the Cracked Machine. This is still one of the more intelligent and insightful lists to be on. Sorry folks, If this list isn't interesting enough for you......then ITS YOUR FAULT! Don't sit there waiting for Graeme to return and entertain you. Use your brain and post something interesting. Raise your game. You make the list what it is. If you think its a boring list that's only because YOU ARE BORING EACH OTHER. Don't blame Graeme, or Miles for kicking Graeme off his list....the list is only as good as you are. And if you can't live without Graeme, just surf to his website and e-mail him and I'm sure he'll be happy to fulfil all your needs. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 21:40:45 EST From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] The Cult of Graeme Mk. II In a message dated 12/12/03 8:36:45 PM Central Standard Time, tim@kidsindestructible.com writes: > Sorry folks, If this list isn't interesting enough for you......then ITS > YOUR FAULT! > > Don't sit there waiting for Graeme to return and entertain you. Use your > brain and post something interesting. Raise your game. You make the list > what it is. > > i am standing and applauding..... thank you for this post Tim RL ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2003 11:01:59 +0800 From: "Tim ****" Subject: [idealcopy] Heads Up For C93 & More 'Live' Streams There is some streaming media from the recent October Gallery event in London here for your perusal: http://www.ouhypo.org/salon Not everyone's cuppa o' tea, but at least you know.. Tim 42 & looking for my Joke Book of early morning 'Stiff' jokes.... Np C93 - Earth Covers Earth & Pilger docco on video _________________________________________________________________ E-mail just got a whole lot better. New ninemsn Premium. Click here http://ninemsn.com.au/premium/landing.asp ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 22:25:36 -0600 From: "Stephen Graziano" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Rough Trade Top 100 albums of 2003/White Tripe The biggest mistake that scores and scores of cool bands made (and continue to make) is to jump to a major after doing well in the indie scene and think that they will just continue to build on their success and fanbase. They whole mechanism of majorlabelmusicmaking seems designed to eat bands/artists whole and just spit them out on a conveyor belt of product. Despite not being able to market "bigtime" or press records in the x's of 1000's that majors would, indie labels were much more adept at keeping the sense of the band and fan in a sort of community. Not to mention the bands' much increased control of product, sound, image and schedule. I can't count the number of promising up and comers that quickly signed to majors and then spent months to years waiting for "the company" to fit them into a schedule, all the while they've "blown" i.e. lived on, the advance money, hocking their future to the label, and then having to jump through hoops (especially being forced to suffer w/ unsympathetic producers) in order to get out of debt and get their lives back. sg http://www.sourmashusa.com - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Friday, December 12, 2003 6:24 PM Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Rough Trade Top 100 albums of 2003/White Tripe > In a message dated 12/12/2003 12:46:45 PM Eastern Standard Time, > sjgraziano@hotmail.com writes: > > > > I think you over-rate Romeo Void. The were a perfect "one-hit" band, even > > if the hit was in the world of rock/discos. "Never Say Never" benefited > > from the big rock/dance zeitgeist of the time, especially helped by that > > galloping Gang of Four'ish bass line, 4 on the floor dance beat, blaring > > trumpets and a sultry girl voice singing about sex and saying "Fuck" in the > > lyric. But it was far and away the best track they had. And since I've > > long lost that album, I can't recall any of the other tracks (can't be a > > good sign), but weren't they on the indie 415 label? So there wasn't that > > big a mainstream media shun in the first place. > > 415 to Columbia. Sax not trumpet. "Never say never" was indeed the anthem of > horny punks looking to get laid but could not be a mainstream hit due to the > language as well as the topic - it's written about her father after all - > Something in your eye says maybe...just maybe. "Girl in trouble" was the hit > before oblivion, maybe as much about sophomore slump as about anything else. > > Still tough to think of a Rubenesque star, major label or otherwise. > > bE > =- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2003 00:15:36 -0600 (CST) From: voyteck@webtv.net Subject: [idealcopy] OT: CNN / musical math CNN had 'best ideas of 2003' segment tonight, mentioning such as a body glider, whereupon a person could jump out of a plane and glide ~200 miles to whatever destination; a nicotini, for a smoker's fix in a non-smoking establishment (such as mixed with kahlua for a 'black lung'); and hit song science, where an artificial intelligence could pick hit songs. This is what came up on the web: What's new. What's hot. What they're saying. Back to the Headlines page for this Edition Preview our pavilion: Music Lab Sign up for our newsletter. AI vs A&R? New Computer Algorithm Picks the Hits Many of us imagine we can identify talent better than the labels' "Artist & Repertoire" (A&R) staff. Recently a company tried using artificial intelligence (AI) and announced it could reliably predict the success of recordings. In a recent New York Times article, music columnist Neil Strauss admitted that he first though the press release from Barcelona-based Polyphonic HMI was a joke, "poking fun at the desperation and cluelessness of the music business." But soon he realized that it was the real thing. HMI visualization of an album superimposed into the recent "hit universe". "Hit Song Science," as the application is known, is based on a technology from AI firm Grupo AIA. Polyphonic says their product analyzes melody, beat, harmony, pitch, octave, tone quality and other patterns in a piece of recorded music, and compares the results to a "universe" of other songs. Their claim - hit songs tend to lie in the same part of the universe, that is, have a lot of those characteristics in common. The product also can dig inside a song and find the best excerpt to use in advertisements and films, the so-called "gold content," according to Polyphonic. Some outsiders are skeptical. Jordan Berliant is quoted as saying "What creates a hit is that people have an emotional reaction to a song, in particular the lyrics. It's difficult to believe that a machine could gauge that." Virtual reality pioneer Jaron Lanier thinks the science behind this application is "sloppy," but he also admits that he "doubt[s] pop music could get any worse, so using even a meaningless tool like this might result in some improvement." Visit the Polyphonic HMI company site Visit the Grupo AIA company site Read a related commentary by Rupert Goodwins (ZDNet - UK), and further coverage in Australia's The Age Read Neil Strauss' column (see second part) in the March 12, 2003 New York Times [fee required] Read an older article (New Scientist, 15 June 2001) recounting some related developments by Savage Beast Technologies Anyone curious / further info, try your own 'artificial intelligence music' search; some are very technical and seemingly forthright in descriptions. If you can read music & know computers, this goes beyond the likes of 'dinbot' and 'bastardpop' mash-ups. Music reduced to an 'atomic state', where you become the 'chemist' or 'mad scientist'. 'It's all in the algorithms'! voyteck ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V6 #374 *******************************