From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V6 #373 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Friday, December 12 2003 Volume 06 : Number 373 Today's Subjects: ----------------- RE: [idealcopy] Night out ["Clements, Bruno - BUP" ] [idealcopy] New Wave Photos [Mark McQuitty ] RE: [idealcopy] image and information etc. [P J Kane ] [idealcopy] don't insult the Dio [P J Kane ] [idealcopy] cd burner stereo components [P J Kane ] Re: [idealcopy] Rough Trade Top 100 albums of 2003/White Tripe [Tisbili@a] Re: [idealcopy] Rough Trade Top 100 albums of 2003/White Tripe [Tisbili@a] RE: [idealcopy] Rough Trade Top 100 albums of 2003/White Tripe ["Eric Kla] Re: [idealcopy] Rough Trade Top 100 albums of 2003/White Tripe [Miles Goo] 40 year-old Versions/Colin Newman (was RE: [idealcopy] Rough Trade Top 100 albums of 2003/White Tripe) ["Jack Alberson" ] RE: [idealcopy] FAC193.com ["Jack Alberson" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 12:07:01 -0000 From: "Clements, Bruno - BUP" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] Night out - -----Original Message----- From: Keith Knight [mailto:steeleknight@lineone.net] Sent: 12 December 2003 00:35 To: 'Clements, Bruno - BUP' Ah, Bruno, a positive comment re Peter Hammill! - the greatest of them all. (I'm copying to Mr Astbury just because he has a friend who likes the great man and because any positive mention of PH on the list has to be shared with Keith because I feel it is a rule!). AT Keith Hi there Keiths! I was reminded of the great PH when reading the interview with Kevin Eden in Wireviews. Sadly all my PH music is on vinyl - I was very keen on Ph7 - apart from VDF's Pawn Hearts (which probably needs remastering. Virgin are a bit slow off the mark on this. Have the Eno albums been remastered for CD? My copy of Warm Jets isn't bad, mind you). I've only seen PH live once, at an intimate little show in the Bristol Old Vic theatre, but it was a long time ago and I can't remember much about it. I don't suppose it was taped but if anyone out there knows any different... The vocals on Gomez's second album, particularly Revolutionary Kind, reminded me of Kevin Coyne. Not all his works are great but when he's on form there's little to touch him. Bruno ********************************************************************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses. www.mimesweeper.com ********************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 07:20:15 EST From: Tisbili@aol.com Subject: [idealcopy] fitness [was image] In a message dated 12/9/2003 4:11:26 PM Eastern Standard Time, keith.astbury10@virgin.net writes: > sexist alert! - there > was a period in my life where I thought Siouxsie was pretty fit. Sue guests on the new Basement Jaxx cd, as does dizzee rascal, about whom I know nothing other than he/they (?) are bigged up regularly in these parts. BillE =-=-=-=-=-=- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 07:42:31 EST From: Tisbili@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Rough Trade Top 100 albums of 2003/White Tripe postlibyan@netzero.com writes > << I dunno. Ask Deborah Iyall. >> > > who is this? Lead singer of Romeo Void. Kinda rose up out of SF obscurity a long time ago with a hit called "a girl in trouble." Once they got a bit big (pardon the phrase) in the national sense, their publicity pictures caught up with them. As soon as the general public saw that the singer was, say, Rosie O'Donnell-esque, they disappeared faster than a stray dollar at a televangelist convention. Doesn't really matter how good the tunes are if you can't sell the image. BillE =-=-=-=-=-=- pernice bros - overcome by happiness ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 07:47:56 EST From: Tisbili@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Rough Trade Top 100 albums of 2003/White Tripe In a message dated 12/11/2003 8:36:30 AM Eastern Standard Time, postlibyan@netzero.com writes: > << I dunno. Ask Deborah Iyall. >> > > who is this? just read all the other replies to this....Never mind...this is what I get for being afk for long stretches lately. Jeez. You guys move fast for a bunch of 40 somethings. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 12:52:07 -0000 From: Mark McQuitty Subject: [idealcopy] Mojo One for UK listees. Picked up Jan 2004 issue of Mojo yesterday. Excellent pic of John Lydon on the cover and a big article on PIL & post-punk inside. Haven't read it yet but spotted a small piece on Wire in there with quotes from Colin. Look out for it. MarkM ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 12:55:56 -0000 From: Mark McQuitty Subject: [idealcopy] New Wave Photos Hi all, Here's a link - http://newwavephotos.com I think you'll all find much to explore on this site. Loads of great photos of lots of great bands. The boys are in there and looking very cool. Check 'em out. Cheers, MarkM. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 12:59:18 GMT From: P J Kane Subject: RE: [idealcopy] image and information etc. << Turns out that all this time he had been listening to it on 45rpm instead of 33-1/3rpm as there were no notes as to the speed of the record anywhere. It took some convincing to get him believe that that 33-1/3 was the correct speed. >> i hate that -- how hard is it to stamp a damned number on a disc? and you say that the Recoil stuff is to be played at 33 not 45... hmmm. darnit now i can't remember what i played it at! i guess that after work i will have to go listen to it and make sure i do so at 33! thanks for the tip... now, does anyone know the correct speed for Plaid's _P-Brane_ EP? i think that 3 of the 4 tracks sound better at 33, but one of them is definitely improved by upping the speed to 45. any ideas? << Wouldn't happen in this age now would it. 8-) >> don't get me started.... PJK please don't hate me because i can't type..... - --- All the cool kids are doing it: HTTP://www.EvilSponge.org ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 13:08:15 -0000 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: [idealcopy] Jerky Versions Re Jerky Versions cd, just read this... >The one on eBay went for #51. Wow! Christ!! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 13:14:44 GMT From: P J Kane Subject: [idealcopy] don't insult the Dio << Like when I went off on the White Stripes? Ari, if that's all you want I can do that for days. ;) The Darkness, for example. Utter crap, irony or no. Their garbage makes Ronnie James Dio look like a legitimate artiste! >> never heard of "The Darkness" but i am not going to sit here and let you insult Mr. Ronnie James Dio! a "rainbow in the dark" indeed! :) (Seriously -- when i was about 10 i loved that song. of course, i was 10.....) PJK please don't hate me because i can't type..... - --- All the cool kids are doing it: HTTP://www.EvilSponge.org ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 13:22:36 GMT From: P J Kane Subject: [idealcopy] cd burner stereo components << I eventually purchased a stand alone Hi Fi recorder,I can make compilations analogue to digital and adjust the volume accordingly. >> apparently both Ari and RL have one of these, and i admit that i have been interested in getting one but have put it off for a while. so everyone excuse us for a moment whilest i ask a few questions. (i presume that at least someone else here has, like me, wanted one but not purchased one yet....) what model do you have, and do you have any recommendations for someone who is going to purchase one (eventually). my main problem is this: i enjoy making mix tapes because i can sit in front of my stereo surrounded by all my music (vinyl, CD, MP3 CD, cassettes, DVD (audio tracks)) and mix from all sources, adjusting levels, and editing tracks as need be. right now, to make a mix CD i have to take digital only sources and load them into my computer. then if sound levels don't match up, i have to use Sound Forge to adjust the volume levels. then i have to sit back for 20 minutes and let the computer produce the finished product. making a mix tape is an organic, fun, live experience. making a mix CD is, currently, sterile and dull. i am hoping that, by purchasing a component burner, i will be able to compile mix CD's in that living, organic fashion again. am i being realistic -- or are they harder to use? what limitations are there? PJK please don't hate me because i can't type..... - --- All the cool kids are doing it: HTTP://www.EvilSponge.org ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 13:36:14 GMT From: P J Kane Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Rough Trade Top 100 albums of 2003/White Tripe << Lead singer of Romeo Void. >> ah. i had no idea what her name was. i have at least 2 of their albums -- including the one with their "hit". i like them both. great band.... << Once they got a bit big (pardon the phrase) in the national sense, their publicity pictures caught up with them. As soon as the general public saw that the singer was, say, Rosie O'Donnell-esque, they disappeared faster than a stray dollar at a televangelist convention. >> i had no idea. no clue what they look like... << Doesn't really matter how good the tunes are if you can't sell the image. >> doesn't that make you sad and a little disgusted. but then what about Blues Traveller? they had hits and widespread popularity, and even made fun of the fact they are pudgy white guys in the video for "Runaround"? how do you explain that? PJK please don't hate me because i can't type..... - --- All the cool kids are doing it: HTTP://www.EvilSponge.org ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 05:48:47 -0800 (PST) From: fernando Subject: Re: [idealcopy] cd burner stereo components I can attest to the wonderful product that is a Tascam CD-R. My model, gotten on eBay, has more than I want, in that it seems geared towards the home recording studio stuff (many types of connectors in the back). The pet peeve of this model (CD-RW2000) is that it has a wired remote. The nice thing is that it does not pay attention to the duplicating restrictions found in DAT sources. I got the unit mainly to dub live shows from MD to CD, and may be equalize them in between. (This is a few years ago, and now it may be easier to do with a Mac.) There is also the vinyl transfer part of it... I do not want to go through a Mac for that. hope this helps, - -fernando PS There is still the intereting concept that recording LPs to MDs could be better, in that it may remove some of the LP's distortions as it does the codec. - --- P J Kane wrote: > what model do you have, and do you have any recommendations for someone who > is going to purchase one (eventually). > > my main problem is this: i enjoy making mix tapes because i can sit in front > of my stereo surrounded by all my music (vinyl, CD, MP3 CD, cassettes, DVD > (audio tracks)) and mix from all sources, adjusting levels, and editing > tracks as need be. > > right now, to make a mix CD i have to take digital only sources and load them > into my computer. then if sound levels don't match up, i have to use Sound > Forge to adjust the volume levels. then i have to sit back for 20 minutes > and let the computer produce the finished product. > > making a mix tape is an organic, fun, live experience. making a mix CD is, > currently, sterile and dull. > > i am hoping that, by purchasing a component burner, i will be able to compile > mix CD's in that living, organic fashion again. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing. http://photos.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 05:53:40 -0800 (PST) From: fernando Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Rough Trade Top 100 albums of 2003/White Tripe - --- P J Kane wrote: > << Doesn't really matter how good the tunes are if you can't sell the image. > >> > > doesn't that make you sad and a little disgusted. > > but then what about Blues Traveller? they had hits and widespread > popularity, and even made fun of the fact they are pudgy white guys in the > video for "Runaround"? how do you explain that? Good question. I will submit that: [1] It was the 80s vs. 90s. [2] Standards on image are tougher to make/sell for women than men. [3] The music from BT may have a wider appeal than that of Romeo Void (the album did have a nother good song with Never Say Never, etc., but it was not solid, though 1000 times more enjoyable than the BT). Also, [4] main guy did have to lose that weight... health reasons, I suppose, but possibly some pressure on the appearance thing. Sadly, I think that she does have a great voice... there was a mix of New Order's Subculture (done by Razormaid), that added her vocals to it. Very nice. cheers, - -fernando __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing. http://photos.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 08:56:50 -0600 From: "dan bailey" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Mojo wonder how long it'll take to get down here? the clash issue(s) of uncut arrived only this week ... on another list i'm on, someone was complaining that he'd missed picking one up before the one after that hit the stands. dan, wondering if the band's unhappiness with remote control being released as a single as made it song non grata forever ... it'd be in my top 10 of theirs, probably, but not only does it get no mention in the uncut rundown, but i'm pretty sure it's omitted from the clash on broadway box, too >One for UK listees. Picked up Jan 2004 issue of Mojo yesterday. Excellent >pic of John Lydon on the cover and a big article on PIL & post-punk inside. >Haven't read it yet but spotted a small piece on Wire in there with quotes >from Colin. > >Look out for it. > >MarkM ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 10:34:25 -0500 From: Tisbili@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Rough Trade Top 100 albums of 2003/White Tripe In a message dated 12/12/2003 8:36:14 AM Eastern Standard Time, postlibyan@netzero.com writes: > but then what about Blues Traveller? they had hits and widespread popularity, and even made fun of the fact they are pudgy white guys in the video for "Runaround"? how do you explain that? Sexism and novelty. Rock guys can be fat or ugly, (but not both) and still sell records. Blooz Travvellerr is a special case, since their fan base are generally greebos who don't care about personal hygiene or appearances. I would also put them in the novelty category. See below. Rock chicks, otoh, must be svelte and (non-threateningly)sexual in order to have a successful music career. Also applies to cuntry music: the success of the Judds is inversely proportional to the daughter's weight. The above rules do not apply to other forms of music that require thought to appreciate: classical, jazz, etc. since aficianados of these genres are generally mature and past worrying about trivia such as fashion or image. Nor do they apply to novelty acts: Weird Al Jerkoffbits etc, and blues trav (fat white guys + harmonica = gimmick). Since I'm in judgmental mode, I'll throw racial issues in there, too: R n B or whatever you want to call popular black music tends not to hold a fondness for the breakfast bar against you if you can carry a tune. BillE =-=-=-=-=-=- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 10:38:07 -0500 From: Tisbili@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Rough Trade Top 100 albums of 2003/White Tripe In a message dated 12/12/2003 8:53:40 AM Eastern Standard Time, gromitklein@yahoo.com writes: > [2] Standards on image are > tougher to make/sell for women than men. GOD DAMN IT!!! LATE AGAIN!! WILL YOU SONS OF BITCHES LET A GUY GET A WORD IN EDGEWISE??? or maybe I just need to start paying more attention... ;_) B1LL3 =-=-=-=-=- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 10:54:46 -0500 From: "Eric Klaver" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] Rough Trade Top 100 albums of 2003/White Tripe B1LL3: ;_) .............................. Bill, don't get your nose out of joint... Eric in Toronto ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 10:18:31 -0600 From: Miles Goosens Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Rough Trade Top 100 albums of 2003/White Tripe At 07:47 AM 12/12/2003 -0500, Tisbili@aol.com wrote: >just read all the other replies to this....Never mind...this is what I get >for being afk for long stretches lately. Jeez. You guys move fast for a >bunch of >40 somethings. Hey, I've got 3 1/2 years to go before that... not that there's anything wrong with being 40 'n' over. Beats the alternative. Wire content: Barring me discovering something more amazing over the next two weeks, SEND will be my #1 of 2003. later, Miles ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 10:18:53 -0600 From: "Jack Alberson" Subject: 40 year-old Versions/Colin Newman (was RE: [idealcopy] Rough Trade Top 100 albums of 2003/White Tripe) And you know what? I'm 28! There's nothing wrong with the 40something set, but we're not ALL there just yet. ;) More Wire content: I just sent more questions to Colin and I'm waiting for some back from Graham. This interview's gonna be awesome! Jack L. Alberson Property Administrator CB Richard Ellis First Tennessee Building 165 Madison Avenue Memphis, TN 38103 (901) 521-1748 - -----Original Message----- From: owner-idealcopy@smoe.org [mailto:owner-idealcopy@smoe.org] On Behalf Of Miles Goosens Sent: Friday, December 12, 2003 10:19 AM To: idealcopy@smoe.org Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Rough Trade Top 100 albums of 2003/White Tripe At 07:47 AM 12/12/2003 -0500, Tisbili@aol.com wrote: >just read all the other replies to this....Never mind...this is what I get >for being afk for long stretches lately. Jeez. You guys move fast for a >bunch of >40 somethings. Hey, I've got 3 1/2 years to go before that... not that there's anything wrong with being 40 'n' over. Beats the alternative. Wire content: Barring me discovering something more amazing over the next two weeks, SEND will be my #1 of 2003. later, Miles ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 11:25:24 EST From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Rough Trade Top 100 albums of 2003/White Tripe In a message dated 12/12/03 6:50:15 AM Central Standard Time, Tisbili@aol.com writes: > Doesn't really matter how good the tunes are if you can't sell the image. > > BillE and THIS is one of the many reasons that i hate the music industry... RL ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 11:28:44 EST From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Rough Trade Top 100 albums of 2003/White Tripe In a message dated 12/12/03 9:37:56 AM Central Standard Time, Tisbili@aol.com writes: > Since I'm in judgmental mode, I'll throw racial issues in there, too: R n B > or whatever you want to call popular black music tends not to hold a fondness > for the breakfast bar against you if you can carry a tune. > > BillE > =-=-=-=-=-=- Long Live Barry White! RL ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 16:28:35 -0000 From: "Clements, Bruno - BUP" Subject: [idealcopy] RE: Maybe Spam Wow! Under 30, but likes Wire and hates the Darkness. Remarkable! Is the interview an IC exclusive or do you have a publication in mind? Bruno - -----Original Message----- From: Jack Alberson [mailto:jalberson@firsttennesseebuilding.com] Sent: 12 December 2003 16:19 To: idealcopy@smoe.org Subject: [Maybe Spam] 40 year-old Versions/Colin Newman (was RE: [idealcopy] Rough Trade Top 100 albums of 2003/White Tripe) And you know what? I'm 28! There's nothing wrong with the 40something set, but we're not ALL there just yet. ;) ********************************************************************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses. www.mimesweeper.com ********************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 11:29:22 EST From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] cd burner stereo components > i am hoping that, by purchasing a component burner, i will be able to > compile mix CD's in that living, organic fashion again. > > am i being realistic -- or are they harder to use? what limitations are > there? In 'analogue' mode the operation is precisely the same as using a cassette recorder. Set the levels manually and off you go. There are no limitations other than the amount of music you can fit on the blank CD-R! As for choice of model it's a no-brainer. Get a Pioneer PDR-609. Fantastic quality. There are cheaper models but none better IMO. I've had one (actually the almost-idenical earlier model, PDR-509) for 3 years now. Current cost in the UK is about #179. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 11:29:58 EST From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Rough Trade Top 100 albums of 2003/White Tripe In a message dated 12/12/03 9:58:23 AM Central Standard Time, eklaver@elysium-sl.com writes: > Bill, don't get your nose out of joint... > > Eric in Toronto don't say the word "joint" or you'll get Ari all excited... RL ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 11:33:01 EST From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] cd burner stereo components In a message dated 12/12/03 7:25:36 AM Central Standard Time, postlibyan@netzero.com writes: > i am hoping that, by purchasing a component burner, i will be able to compile > mix CD's in that living, organic fashion again. > > am i being realistic -- or are they harder to use? what limitations are > there? > it's exactly the same....you put on a record or cd...adjust the recording levels to your desire...and record...press stop after each song...bingo...just like making a mix tape... RL ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 10:34:07 -0600 From: "Jack Alberson" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] RE: Maybe Spam It's for mine...my own...my PRECIOUS (/Gollum) Ahem, it's for my music website, FAC193.com Jack L. Alberson Property Administrator CB Richard Ellis First Tennessee Building 165 Madison Avenue Memphis, TN 38103 (901) 521-1748 - -----Original Message----- From: owner-idealcopy@smoe.org [mailto:owner-idealcopy@smoe.org] On Behalf Of Clements, Bruno - BUP Sent: Friday, December 12, 2003 10:29 AM To: 'idealcopy@smoe.org' Subject: [idealcopy] RE: Maybe Spam Wow! Under 30, but likes Wire and hates the Darkness. Remarkable! Is the interview an IC exclusive or do you have a publication in mind? Bruno ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 16:37:38 -0000 From: "Clements, Bruno - BUP" Subject: [idealcopy] RE: cd burner stereo components - -----Original Message----- From: MarkBursa@aol.com [mailto:MarkBursa@aol.com] Sent: 12 December 2003 16:29 To: postlibyan@netzero.com; idealcopy@smoe.org Subject: Re: [idealcopy] cd burner stereo components > i am hoping that, by purchasing a component burner, i will be able to > compile mix CD's in that living, organic fashion again. > > am i being realistic -- or are they harder to use? what limitations are > there? In 'analogue' mode the operation is precisely the same as using a cassette recorder. Set the levels manually and off you go. There are no limitations other than the amount of music you can fit on the blank CD-R! As for choice of model it's a no-brainer. Get a Pioneer PDR-609. Fantastic quality. There are cheaper models but none better IMO. I've had one (actually the almost-idenical earlier model, PDR-509) for 3 years now. Current cost in the UK is about #179. Mark - ---Yes, but I can't imagine wanting to record in analogue mode except, perhaps, for in-car use. Surely the whole point is to have a digi-to-digi transfer to minimise quality loss? That's more important to me than getting similar levels. Bruno ********************************************************************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses. www.mimesweeper.com ********************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 16:39:55 +0000 From: Andrew Walkingshaw Subject: Re: [idealcopy] RE: Maybe Spam On Fri, Dec 12, 2003 at 04:28:35PM -0000, Clements, Bruno - BUP wrote: > Wow! Under 30, but likes Wire and hates the Darkness. Remarkable! Um, he-llo? :-) - - A (23, last he checked) - -- email: andrew@lexical.org.uk http://www.lexical.org.uk/ Earth Sciences, University of Cambridge http://www.esc.cam.ac.uk/ DJ, CUR1350 - http://www.cur1350.co.uk/ http://www.lexical.org.uk/blog/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 16:43:40 -0000 From: "Clements, Bruno - BUP" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] cd burner stereo components ... As for choice of model it's a no-brainer. Get a Pioneer PDR-609. Fantastic quality. There are cheaper models but none better IMO. I've had one (actually the almost-idenical earlier model, PDR-509) for 3 years now. Current cost in the UK is about #179. Mark - ---Just thought of another disadvantage with a stand-alone burner rather than a computer... You'll probably need discs with 'For Consumer' printed on them somewhere, which tend to be more expensive. Each disc on a 'drum' or 'tower' of discs from computer shops is less than 30 pence at the moment, 'For Consumer' format discs are two or three times this. If they are better quality I'd spend a bit more but everyone I know uses cheap discs on their home computers and gets pretty good results. Bruno ********************************************************************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses. www.mimesweeper.com ********************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 11:46:44 -0500 From: "Eric Klaver" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] Rough Trade Top 100 albums of 2003/White Tripe For medicinal purposes only surely. EK in TO ............................. don't say the word "joint" or you'll get Ari all excited... RL ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 11:46:34 EST From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Rough Trade Top 100 albums of 2003/White Tripe In a message dated 12/12/03 10:22:45 AM Central Standard Time, wireadmin@mindspring.com writes: > >just read all the other replies to this....Never mind...this is what I get > >for being afk for long stretches lately. Jeez. You guys move fast for a > >bunch of > >40 somethings. 35 here...and an Aquarian....i like going for long walks in the woods...very active lifestyle...healthy, non-smoker...with three cats... RL ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 11:52:23 EST From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] RE: cd burner stereo components > >>---Yes, but I can't imagine wanting to record in analogue mode except, > perhaps, for in-car use. Surely the whole point is to have a digi-to-digi > transfer to minimise quality loss? That's more important to me than getting > similar levels.<< You can copy digital-to-digital if you wish, and if CDs are your only source material. You need analogue input if you're source is vinyl or tape. Switch modes at a press of a button. I defy you to spot any difference in quality in either mode when using CDs as source. It's that good. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 11:56:42 EST From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] cd burner stereo components > ---Just thought of another disadvantage with a stand-alone burner rather > than a computer... You'll probably need discs with 'For Consumer' printed on > them somewhere, which tend to be more expensive. > True, but hardly an issue really is it, unless you're a bit of a tight wad ;-) I use both 'consumer' discs and 'computer' discs when using the PC as a burner. Drums of 25 decent brand (eg JVC) consumer discs cost less than #10, or 40p each. Which makes tham about half the price of cassettes. The PC discs are as you say about half this price (about 20p each). Average it out at 30p a disc. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 16:49:14 -0000 From: "Clements, Bruno - BUP" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] RE: Maybe Spam - -----Original Message----- From: Andrew Walkingshaw [mailto:andrew-wire@lexical.org.uk] Sent: 12 December 2003 16:40 To: idealcopy@smoe.org Subject: Re: [idealcopy] RE: Maybe Spam On Fri, Dec 12, 2003 at 04:28:35PM -0000, Clements, Bruno - BUP wrote: > Wow! Under 30, but likes Wire and hates the Darkness. Remarkable! Um, he-llo? :-) - - A (23, last he checked) - ---Fair enough, I don't know why I'm surprised really. It's only like me playng Pink Floyd or Led Zepp, I suppose! Bruno (41) PS I was brought up on the Beatles, Stones and Alan Price - in glorious four-speaker mono! ********************************************************************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses. www.mimesweeper.com ********************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 16:56:43 -0000 From: "Clements, Bruno - BUP" Subject: [idealcopy] cd burner stereo components >>---Yes, but I can't imagine wanting to record in analogue mode except, perhaps, for in-car use. Surely the whole point is to have a digi-to-digi transfer to minimise quality loss? That's more important to me than getting similar levels.<< You can copy digital-to-digital if you wish, and if CDs are your only source material. You need analogue input if your source is vinyl or tape. Switch modes at a press of a button. I defy you to spot any difference in quality in either mode when using CDs as source. It's that good. Mark [Clements, Bruno - BUP] --- Impressive... I could do with a way of transferring records to CD. Ah, to be able to listen to the second This Heat LP again... It's almost worth getting a new stylus for! B ********************************************************************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses. www.mimesweeper.com ********************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 17:01:37 -0000 From: "Clements, Bruno - BUP" Subject: [idealcopy] FAC193.com - -----Original Message----- From: Jack Alberson [mailto:jalberson@firsttennesseebuilding.com] Sent: 12 December 2003 16:34 To: idealcopy@smoe.org Subject: RE: [idealcopy] RE: Maybe Spam It's for mine...my own...my PRECIOUS (/Gollum) Ahem, it's for my music website, FAC193.com Jack L. Alberson Property Administrator CB Richard Ellis First Tennessee Building 165 Madison Avenue Memphis, TN 38103 (901) 521-1748 Jack -- I visited and it looks a great site, but I was surprised not to find any Wire reviews under 'W'... Bruno ********************************************************************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses. www.mimesweeper.com ********************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 11:10:45 -0600 From: "Jack Alberson" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] FAC193.com Record reviews--no, sadly. I get a lot of music in the mail and have to give it priority over personal purchases (like Wire's newer stuff), HOWEVER there is a review of the Atlanta Echo Lounge gig there somewhere...now where did I put that...? Jack L. Alberson Property Administrator CB Richard Ellis First Tennessee Building 165 Madison Avenue Memphis, TN 38103 (901) 521-1748 - -----Original Message----- From: owner-idealcopy@smoe.org [mailto:owner-idealcopy@smoe.org] On Behalf Of Clements, Bruno - BUP Sent: Friday, December 12, 2003 11:02 AM To: 'idealcopy@smoe.org' Subject: [idealcopy] FAC193.com Jack -- I visited and it looks a great site, but I was surprised not to find any Wire reviews under 'W'... Bruno ********************************************************************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses. www.mimesweeper.com ********************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 11:12:31 -0600 From: "Jack Alberson" Subject: [idealcopy] My review of the Echo Lounge show http://music.fac193.com/eyewitness/092102.html Complete with shitty digital pictures of Oxes in action. Jack L. Alberson Property Administrator CB Richard Ellis First Tennessee Building 165 Madison Avenue Memphis, TN 38103 (901) 521-1748 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 12:30:55 -0600 From: "Stephen Graziano" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Volume Kind of ironic that one of the featured "advantages" of the compact disc - extended dynamic range - is so voluntarily negated because the average volume on the CD will seem lower in order to accommodate the expanded range, so engineers (with the instruction of producers, et. al.) compress the shit out of recordings so the average volume falls closer to the peak level. Sometimes it's a difficult choice - I've struggled mastering recordings where a few tracks have a much wider dynamic range than others, and if you peak those to 0dB, they'll seem less loud in the average than their neighbor tracks, and one doesn't really want a listener jumping up and down throughout the listening on a recording adjusting the volume, so choices and compromises must be made. So maybe CDs sonic advantages are wasted on "pop" music. It'd be hard to imagine classic music aficionados complaining that the soft parts are "too quiet". In fact I seem to remember, though it might fall into the "urban legend" category that in the early days of CD, consumer speakers were actually being blown out because sudden volume peaks - say the cannon shots in Tchaicovsky's 1812 Overture - were of such an unprecedented range (compared to vinyl, since one must keep the needle in the groove) that warning about playing them too loud were being issued because listeners would set the volume where their memories recalled the average volume levels, not expecting that the lack of compression would allow the peaks to move much further away from the average level. I had a CD I was afraid to play for a long while - The Antigroups "Test Tones" because I had a high-end, but aged speaker system and the CD actually carried a warning about some of the frequencies endangering a home system at loud settings. And of course, when one can listen loud, one tends too. But too often, especially with the glut of "remasters" that are on the market, it just seems that the compression is increased so that the average volume seems louder. And of course louder is better, - it has "more sound" in it, but it one does a careful A - B test, and readjusts the volume to compensate for that factor, and one actually loses musicality in some remasters because the increased "compression for relative volume's sake" denies the subtlety of the original dynamic range. Steve G. http://www.sourmashusa.com - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Pietromonaco" To: Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2003 5:46 PM Subject: RE: [idealcopy] Volume > > a sound engineer stated that the record company that he worked for > > insisted that the volume be loud on all releases > > he said that in doing so customers were missing 'subtleties' > > of the music,and that he never heard anyone complain that a > > c.d was 'too quiet',ever heard of the volume control? > > Paul? what's your take? > > Glad you asked, Ari! (^_^) > > I have the original Wire Restless Retro US releases and the re-mastered EMI > UK releases. The UK editions are quite a bit louder - BUT there are some > subtle mastering errors on them. One track on 154 in particular sounds like > it's overloaded. There's a distortion there that isn't on the Restless > Retro edition. (I wrote about this once - I can't remember the name of the > track off-hand, but it's in the SMOE dot org archives somewhere.(^_^)) > > I don't get the loud CD thing myself. I also think I understand what the > engineer is talking about. See - the way digital audio works, you can't get > any louder than all bits on - which is 0 dB on the digital audio recording > meters. Any incoming voltage louder than 0 dB at the A/D converters is > reproduced by the D/A converters as 0 dB. This is distortion, since the > output voltage basically flatlines. > > If you record so that the peak volume hits 0 dB on your digital recorder, > that puts the average signal level for pop music at around -12 dB. Yet, > when I examine the signal level of modern compact discs, they are pegged at > 0 dB. How can they do this? By using modern A/D converters that "round" > the volume off so that overloads are prevented. In the pre-digital era, > this was known as "peak limiting", which is a form of audio dynamic > compression. This is what I think the engineer is talking about - this peak > limiting/compression removes dynamic range from the original master tapes. > > Shellac - and by extension Steve Albini - is one of the few bands who > actually still master their CDs the old fashioned "loudest peak of the > recording happens at 0 dB with no peak limiting" way. You'll notice that > their CDs seem quieter - but since CD has a 110 dB signal to noise ratio, > you're probably not going to hear a lot more surface noise that a CD that's > mastered the modern way. You've just got to use that volume knob thingy > that Ari mentioned. (^_^) > > Cheers, > Paul ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V6 #373 *******************************