From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V6 #371 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Thursday, December 11 2003 Volume 06 : Number 371 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [idealcopy] no excuse [Ari Britt ] [idealcopy] Howard Devoto (Ex Magazine) ["Keith Astbury" ] Re: [idealcopy] Howard Devoto (Ex Magazine) [Ari Britt ] Re: [idealcopy] The Cult of Graeme Mk. II [RLynn9@aol.com] RE: [idealcopy] Rough Trade Top 100 albums of 2003/White Tripe [fernando ] RE: [idealcopy] image and information etc. ["Eric Klaver" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] no excuse MarkBursa@aol.com wrote: > >>what exactly is missed so much? his constant bragging about how many > shows he goes to whilst we are all dolts because we work for "the man" ? > > or the abuse hurled at those who like something that doesn't quite fit in > with is oh-so- sterling taste in music?<< And that doesn't illuminate your day? C'mon. It's a mailing list about an arty punk rock group. A certain amount of attitude should be the norm, not frowned upon. Mark Totally agree with Mark,though if I were Tim I might think different.Although his last posting WAS obnoxious even Tim forgave him and,after I had posted asking Miles if we could have a vote as to whether we could 're-enstate' his 'membership' to this list quite a number of you (us) emailed me off list agreeing with my sentiments. I do miss his posting,they were for the MOST part intelligent and right on,it's just a shame he had this 'other side' that made his attacks personal. And yes, I think like many here that this list is poorer for his absence. Ari New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 11:22:07 -0000 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: [idealcopy] Howard Devoto (Ex Magazine) Someone wants this pretty badly. I didn't even think it was very good = myself... = http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3D2578092556&categor= y=3D2252&rd=3D1 [demime 0.97c-p1 removed an attachment of type application/octet-stream which had a name of eBay item 2578092556 (Ends 11-Dec-03 220631 GMT ) - Howard Devoto (Ex Magazine) Jerky Versions CD.url] ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 03:36:08 -0800 (PST) From: kevin eden Subject: [idealcopy] 2003 albums Well, having seen other peoples lists of what they enjoyed in 2003 I thought I'd throw my, oh so so un-hip, two-penneth worth in. So, in no particular order: David Sylvian - Blemish Robert Wyatt - Cuckooland MIles Davis - The Complete Jack Johnson Sessions Gigi - Gigi Russill Paul - The Yoga of Sound (3CD) Harold Budd - La Bella Vista Soft Machine - At the BBC 1967-71 Brian Eno - January 07003 Eddie Henderson - Sunburst Nils-Petter Molvaer - np3 that'll do for now kevin eden http://www.wireviews.com/wmo/index.html "dreams that money can buy" New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 03:41:47 -0800 (PST) From: Ari Britt Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Howard Devoto (Ex Magazine) this is what I got: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3D2578092556&categor= Keith Astbury wrote:Someone wants this pretty badly. I didn't even think it was very good = myself... = http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3D2578092556&categor= y=3D2252&rd=3D1 [demime 0.97c-p1 removed an attachment of type application/octet-stream which had a name of eBay item 2578092556 (Ends 11-Dec-03 220631 GMT ) - Howard Devoto (Ex Magazine) Jerky Versions CD.url] New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing ------------------------------ Date: 11 Dec 2003 06:55:11 -0600 From: dj =?ISO-8859-1?Q?fak=E9?= Subject: [idealcopy] Re: idealcopy-digest V6 #370 > Sorry, but I don't think I'm alone in believing this list is much poorer > for r Rowland's absence. And no, I'm not condoning his last outburst, which > did overstep the line. You never know who is lurking in the the digital ether.... ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 13:07:56 GMT From: P J Kane Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Rough Trade Top 100 albums of 2003/White Tripe << Yeah, that is pretty extreme. Does that mean you pick up all the bargains without sleeves? >> i have never, in my life, seen sleeveless records or CDs for sale. i do have a ton of sleeveless vinyl that i inherited from my Uncle (apparently he didn't like sleeves either -- perhaps it's genetic?) where have you seen such things? PJK please don't hate me because i can't type..... - --- All the cool kids are doing it: HTTP://www.EvilSponge.org ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 13:23:14 +0000 From: Andrew Walkingshaw Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: idealcopy-digest V6 #370 On Thu, Dec 11, 2003 at 06:55:11AM -0600, dj fak? wrote: > > Sorry, but I don't think I'm alone in believing this list is much poorer > > for r Rowland's absence. And no, I'm not condoning his last outburst, which > > did overstep the line. > > You never know who is lurking in the the digital ether.... I disagree with Graeme on many things, and I suspect on some I'm beneath his contempt - but he (and Michael Flaherty, who I also miss, and Giluz, and and and...) did post a lot of interesting stuff, much of which turned me on to a lot of good music. That isn't to denigrate anyone who is still here: but the more viewpoints the better. - - Andrew - -- email: andrew@lexical.org.uk http://www.lexical.org.uk/ Earth Sciences, University of Cambridge http://www.esc.cam.ac.uk/ DJ, CUR1350 - http://www.cur1350.co.uk/ http://www.lexical.org.uk/blog/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 13:34:01 GMT From: P J Kane Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Rough Trade Top 100 albums of 2003/White Tripe << I dunno. Ask Deborah Iyall. >> who is this? PJK please don't hate me because i can't type..... - --- All the cool kids are doing it: HTTP://www.EvilSponge.org ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 13:43:53 -0000 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: idealcopy-digest V6 #370 > You never know who is lurking in the the digital ether.... Well if you are lurking in the ether, I bought the last Killing Joke album and like it! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 13:49:29 -0000 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Howard Devoto (Ex Magazine) it basically said that the cd of devoto's '83 solo jerky versions LP is currently goinf gor #28.03 with some time still to go. talking of devoto, this from another site... A friend of mine went to see luxuria in Liverpool years ago. At the start of the show all this dry ice engulfed the stage, then from the depths, Mr. Devoto emerged in a tuxedo looking solemn when some wag in the audience shouted- "Fuckin' 'ell....it's Paul Daniels!" heh! heh! >:-) ----- Original Message ----- From: Ari Britt To: Keith Astbury ; idealcopy@smoe.org Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2003 11:41 AM Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Howard Devoto (Ex Magazine) this is what I got: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3D2578092556&categor= Keith Astbury wrote: Someone wants this pretty badly. I didn't even think it was very good = myself... = http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3D2578092556&categor = y=3D2252&rd=3D1 [demime 0.97c-p1 removed an attachment of type application/octet-stream which had a name of eBay item 2578092556 (Ends 11-Dec-03 220631 GMT ) - Howard Devoto (Ex Magazine) Jerky Versions CD.url] - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- - - Do you Yahoo!? New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 08:08:26 -0600 From: "Jack Alberson" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] 2003 albums Personally, Kevin, I think yours are far hipper than my choices (in no particular order): Medicine - The Mechanical Forces of Love Wire - Send (yeah, I know half the songs came out on the R&B EPs...I'm *still* putting it on the list) Yeah Yeah Yeahs - Fever to Tell Plans & Apologies - Torn Out Pages From the Middle Agez Black Rebel Motorcycle Club - Take Them Out, On Your Own Kinski - Airs Above Your Station Goldfrapp - Black Cherry Appliance - Are You Earthed? The Strokes - Room On Fire David Bowie - Reality Of course this is likely to change before the year's out. Jack L. Alberson Property Administrator CB Richard Ellis First Tennessee Building 165 Madison Avenue Memphis, TN 38103 (901) 521-1748 - -----Original Message----- From: owner-idealcopy@smoe.org [mailto:owner-idealcopy@smoe.org] On Behalf Of kevin eden Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2003 5:36 AM To: Ideal Copy Subject: [idealcopy] 2003 albums Well, having seen other peoples lists of what they enjoyed in 2003 I thought I'd throw my, oh so so un-hip, two-penneth worth in. So, in no particular order: David Sylvian - Blemish Robert Wyatt - Cuckooland MIles Davis - The Complete Jack Johnson Sessions Gigi - Gigi Russill Paul - The Yoga of Sound (3CD) Harold Budd - La Bella Vista Soft Machine - At the BBC 1967-71 Brian Eno - January 07003 Eddie Henderson - Sunburst Nils-Petter Molvaer - np3 that'll do for now ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 10:02:15 EST From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: idealcopy-digest V6 #370 In a message dated 12/11/03 7:38:35 AM Central Standard Time, keith.astbury10@virgin.net writes: > Well if you are lurking in the ether, I bought the last Killing Joke album > and like it! > yawn....zzzzzzzzzz RL ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 10:32:03 -0500 From: "Eric Klaver" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] Rough Trade Top 100 albums of 2003/White Tripe - -fernando: At any rate, the merit of JD/NO can arguably be said to be rather good, yet, the lack of image/promotion... ....................................... *lack* of image!! i don't know how old you are fernando, but the promotional work at Factory and the other provider of PS's paycheque at the time, DinDisc had a very distinct image. It was heavily codified but compared to other albums being released at the time, it was distinct and screamed "FACTORY! BUY ME" from the shelf amongst all the other generic design on the shelf at the time. BTW, the image for Unknown Pleasures, a graphic spectral representation of a dying star, was chosen by the band. They quite approved. I don't think JD really gave a rats ass whether they could have sold a few thousand more units if their name was on the album cover. Similarly with NO. Other acts definitely benefitted from the image association. I remember seeing a Section 25 album that screamed Saville, inquiring as to who it was, and buying it as a result never having heard the music. Eric in Toronto ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 10:46:04 EST From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] 2003 albums In a message dated 12/11/03 5:45:36 AM Central Standard Time, wmouk@yahoo.com writes: > Harold Budd - La Bella Vista what is this like...hopefully, no dodgy poetry like "By Dawn's Early Light" ....words get in the way of Budd's beautifully stark terrain RL ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 10:50:43 -0500 From: Tisbili@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Howard Devoto (Ex Magazine) keith.astbury10@virgin.net writes: > it basically said that the cd of devoto's '83 solo jerky > versions LP is currently going for #28.03 with some time still to go. More entertaining than the inflated value is the seller's categorization of the cd as "new age." Buyer's remorse will no doubt soon set in, as I recall reading that Virgin are set to rerelease it as a midprice reissue. Always like this one a lot, other than the soggy linn drum sound permeating it. billE ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 17:00:05 +0100 From: "Jan J Noorda" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: idealcopy-digest V6 #370 Sorry, but I don't think I'm alone in believing this list is much poorer for r Rowland's absence. And no, I'm not condoning his last outburst, which did overstep the line. I think one strong point of Graeme R. from M was his writing about Wire output. And with a sharp pen. This is sometimes missing at our list. Yes, emotional reactions. Also by him he wasn't prepared for. And the fighting has begun. But there is another. He also writes about ... and if you don't agree with him, he is going to beat you up on personal issues. Le Cock but not let's say le cock sportive. There is no winner in ideas, meanings etc., . But I did like his writing about Wire. Why isn't he writing on his Cracked Machine or whatever? And KJ. Just a rock band, like so many others. Sorry I am very sceptic to them. Have they already been shown in Headbangers Ball. Have to admit just heard internet tracks of their latest. Colin mentioned already Every generation has to invent their own new rock-sound. And when you belong to the "older" one it looks like nothing new at all. JJN ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 16:18:21 +0000 From: Andrew Walkingshaw Subject: [idealcopy] Re: Boston "D" party video On Thu, Dec 11, 2003 at 08:05:48AM -0800, Miguel Benzan wrote: > http://www.apechild.com/~mizax/boston_d_party_1.wmv > Not seen this yet (I'm at "work"[1], where my computer runs Linux), but is "Boston Tea Party" by the Sensational Alex Harvey Band going to become the new song of the Patriots? :) - - A (better choice than Th' Faith Healer, anyway) [1] grad student - -- email: andrew@lexical.org.uk http://www.lexical.org.uk/ Earth Sciences, University of Cambridge http://www.esc.cam.ac.uk/ DJ, CUR1350 - http://www.cur1350.co.uk/ http://www.lexical.org.uk/blog/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 10:38:15 -0600 From: "Jack Alberson" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] Re: idealcopy-digest V6 #370 I have to say I only really remember Monsieur Rowland by name, but then again I remember the list having much more Wire content as well--not that I'm complaining, as I found it all quite intimidating the first time I was here. I enjoy that the list is not quite as 'academic' as it once was, and allows for individual interests to filter in moreso now than before. Now playing: Tears For Fears, "Shout" Jack L. Alberson Property Administrator CB Richard Ellis First Tennessee Building 165 Madison Avenue Memphis, TN 38103 (901) 521-1748 - -----Original Message----- From: owner-idealcopy@smoe.org [mailto:owner-idealcopy@smoe.org] On Behalf Of Jan J Noorda Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2003 10:00 AM To: IC Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: idealcopy-digest V6 #370 Sorry, but I don't think I'm alone in believing this list is much poorer for r Rowland's absence. And no, I'm not condoning his last outburst, which did overstep the line. I think one strong point of Graeme R. from M was his writing about Wire output. And with a sharp pen. This is sometimes missing at our list. Yes, emotional reactions. Also by him he wasn't prepared for. And the fighting has begun. But there is another. He also writes about ... and if you don't agree with him, he is going to beat you up on personal issues. Le Cock but not let's say le cock sportive. There is no winner in ideas, meanings etc., . But I did like his writing about Wire. Why isn't he writing on his Cracked Machine or whatever? And KJ. Just a rock band, like so many others. Sorry I am very sceptic to them. Have they already been shown in Headbangers Ball. Have to admit just heard internet tracks of their latest. Colin mentioned already Every generation has to invent their own new rock-sound. And when you belong to the "older" one it looks like nothing new at all. JJN ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 12:11:10 -0500 From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: Boston "D" party video Andrew, Stop pretending to be American! I'll blow your cover. Then there'll be tears ;-) Mark ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 18:20:01 +0100 From: "Jan J Noorda" Subject: [idealcopy] Minimal Compact Live in Brussel http://www.every.co.za/mc/mc.html Fantastic ofcourse that worldwideweb A review and nice colourfull pictures Jan J ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 11:25:45 -0600 From: "dan bailey" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Rough Trade Top 100 albums of 2003/White Tripe lead singer of romeo void, back in the '80s ... presumably the reference was to her looking considerably slimmer in band photos than in real life (as i can attest, having seen the band in tempe circa '83 or so). same syndrome appears to apply to my fellow central arkansas native, amy lee of evanescence. dan ><< I dunno. Ask Deborah Iyall. >> > >who is this? > >PJK > >please don't hate me because i can't type..... >--- >All the cool kids are doing it: >HTTP://www.EvilSponge.org ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 17:32:22 +0000 From: Andrew Walkingshaw Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: Boston "D" party video On Thu, Dec 11, 2003 at 04:18:21PM +0000, Andrew Walkingshaw wrote: > On Thu, Dec 11, 2003 at 08:05:48AM -0800, Miguel Benzan wrote: > > http://www.apechild.com/~mizax/boston_d_party_1.wmv > > > > Not seen this yet (I'm at "work"[1], where my computer runs Linux), but > is "Boston Tea Party" by the Sensational Alex Harvey Band going to become > the new song of the Patriots? :) > > - A (better choice than Th' Faith Healer, anyway) > > [1] grad student Wrong mailing list. Someone shoot me for being inept, please. - - A - -- home - email: andrew@lexical.org.uk http://www.lexical.org.uk/ work - email: adw27@esc.cam.ac.uk http://www.esc.cam.ac.uk/ radio: http://www.cur1350.co.uk/ (5pm Mon) http://www.lexical.org.uk/blog/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 11:40:01 -0600 From: Miles Goosens Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Rough Trade Top 100 albums of 2003/White Tripe At 11:25 AM 12/11/2003 -0600, dan bailey wrote: >lead singer of romeo void, back in the '80s ... presumably the reference was >to her looking considerably slimmer in band photos than in real life (as i >can attest, having seen the band in tempe circa '83 or so). You would have liked her better if you had slept together. later, Miles ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 11:41:25 -0600 From: "dan bailey" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Howard Devoto (Ex Magazine) >it basically said that the cd of devoto's '83 solo jerky versions LP is >currently goinf gor #28.03 with some time still to go. > that's the disc i came across at a nashville used shop in march or so & promptly handed over to a friend, who a few minutes earlier had mentioned how much he'd been hoping to find it ... he, in turn, gave me the disc *he'd* found a minute or 2 earlier -- colin's it seems/singing fish with bonus ep. a trade i'm pretty happy with, i must say. dan, whose used-cd trawl of a couple of days ago yielded, at long last, the shelleydevoto (in the "d" section, of course) cd from a couple of years ago ... as well as (alas) duplicates of cds i *thought* i already owned but wasn't absolutely sure about, fields of the nephilim's earth inferno & excessive force's gentle death ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 18:00:08 +0000 From: Andrew Walkingshaw Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Rough Trade Top 100 albums of 2003/White Tripe On Thu, Dec 11, 2003 at 11:40:01AM -0600, Miles Goosens wrote: > At 11:25 AM 12/11/2003 -0600, dan bailey wrote: > >lead singer of romeo void, back in the '80s ... presumably the reference was > >to her looking considerably slimmer in band photos than in real life (as i > >can attest, having seen the band in tempe circa '83 or so). > > You would have liked her better if you had slept together. I only know that song from the Queens of the Stone Age cover version, so I'm profoundly disturbed right now. - - Andrew - -- home - email: andrew@lexical.org.uk http://www.lexical.org.uk/ work - email: adw27@esc.cam.ac.uk http://www.esc.cam.ac.uk/ radio: http://www.cur1350.co.uk/ (5pm Mon) http://www.lexical.org.uk/blog/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 13:11:05 EST From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Rough Trade Top 100 albums of 2003/White Tripe In a message dated 12/11/03 12:07:03 PM Central Standard Time, andrew-wire@lexical.org.uk writes: > > You would have liked her better if you had slept together. > > I only know that song from the Queens of the Stone Age cover version, > so I'm profoundly disturbed right now. > > - Andrew > That's OK Andrew...a girl in trouble is a temporary thing... sorry i couldn't resist Robert Lynn - Head of the Committee to re-instate Graham Rowland to Ideal Copy (our supposed rift was greatly exaggerated...we communicated offlist occasionally and traded cds/tapes often) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 18:44:27 -0000 From: "Andrew Lumbard" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] rocket from the atlanta tombs/Buzzcocks >> Ah The Buzzcocks. So..any IC 'ers sneaking in at The Oxford Zodiac tomorrow? (Friday) AndyL ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 12:57:46 -0600 From: Miles Goosens Subject: [idealcopy] The Cult of Graeme Mk. II At 02:35 AM 12/11/2003 -0800, Ari Britt wrote: >MarkBursa@aol.com wrote: >And that doesn't illuminate your day? C'mon. It's a mailing list about an >arty punk rock group. A certain amount of attitude should be the norm, not >frowned upon. > >Mark > >Totally agree with Mark,though if I were Tim I might think >different.Although his last posting WAS obnoxious even Tim forgave him >and,after I had posted asking Miles if we could have a vote as to whether we >could 're-enstate' his 'membership' to this list quite a number of you (us) >emailed me off list agreeing with my sentiments. And quite a number of you wrote me off-list agreeing with my decision. What's interesting is that a number of people who have since stumped for the reinstatement of Graeme, in public and/or in private, are the same ones who were the special targets of his tender mercies, and who were often asking me to "do something" about him. Somehow I'm reminded of the wives and girlfriends who always go back to their abusive spouses... Look, there was no "good" solution. Given Graeme's unresponsiveness to any suggestions from me or others during either of his stays on the list (in fact, he seems to have responded both times by redoubling his efforts to be offensive), there's no reason to think he'd behave one bit differently if he returned for a triumphant third act. As Ari says in arguing *for* Graeme's return: >it's just a shame he had this 'other side' that made his attacks personal. Do you want that again? Because that's what you'd be getting. later, listowner Miles ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 19:02:49 -0000 From: "Clements, Bruno - BUP" Subject: [idealcopy] Night out - -----Original Message----- From: dan bailey [mailto:dpbailey@worldnet.att.net] Sent: 09 December 2003 19:06 To: ideal copy Subject: [Maybe Spam] [idealcopy] rocket from the atlanta tombs? been meaning to ask if any of the (2-person?) atlanta-area contingent plan to catch rocket from the tombs (reformation of the cleveland band that schismed into pere ubu & the dead boys back in the mid-'70s, complete with david thomas on vox & cheetah chrome on guitar, & richard lloyd of television filling in on the other guitar for the late peter laughner) tonight at the echo lounge. dan Now that's my idea of a night out! Early Pere Ubu coming over the Radio 1 airwaves, courtesy of John Peel, opened my ears as much as hearing tracks from Pink Flag. Can't say I worried too much about image in those days - I bumped into Jet Black and Dave Greenfield from the Stranglers in a hotel in 1977. It was the first time I'd heard of them and they advised listening to the great Peel to hear some decent music. Daytime radio wasn't exactly featuring God Save the Queen or Anarchy in the UK in those days (we were lucky to get Eddie and the Hot Rods or the Boomtown Rats) - first time I heard the Pistols was when I bought the singles. I couldn't really see what the fuss was about (call verse-chorus-verse-chorus-guitar break Anarchy?)... with the Pistols (it was more about energy/attitude/image leading to other things, I think. I've never owned the offical NMTB on any format, only the demos-CD) but I loved Wire from the word go. Querky, imaginative and music I've never stopped wanted to hear... The novelty's never worn off! I don't think Wire ever had much of an image (most hardcore punks I knew hated them anyway and would give them a hard time at gigs, or would just shout moronically for I am the Fly) A lack of image obviously had a cost in record sales, though not integrity (of course). Just think of all those other greats with little or no saleable image, Peter Hammill, Kevin Coyne, I could drone on. Great music but they're never going to shift records like the latest teen band, and did we ever worry about that? Image can be incredible negative anyway. Punk always labelled Led Zep as dinosaurs and was part of the reason I didn't go to Knebworth in '79. Take a look at the DVD and (Ok, ditch the long hair etc) I reckon they could out-rock anyone... In fact, isn't that them doing Eddie Cochrane numbers to pogoing fans in 1970 with plenty of leather jackets in evidence? Yes, it is! Proves that very little is new... Bruno ********************************************************************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses. www.mimesweeper.com ********************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 14:05:44 EST From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] The Cult of Graeme Mk. II In a message dated 12/11/03 12:59:04 PM Central Standard Time, wireadmin@mindspring.com writes: > Somehow I'm reminded of the wives and girlfriends who always go back to their > abusive spouses... actually, i think the people who wanted his return the most, are the ones who were never attacked on and offlist by Graeme.... just a thought RL ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 11:12:04 -0800 (PST) From: fernando Subject: RE: [idealcopy] Rough Trade Top 100 albums of 2003/White Tripe Hello Eric, Sorry that a lack of clarity is questioned as a matter of my age... funny. Oh yes, the internet... where age is always brought up. The image that you speak relates to that of those "in the know" and not for the consumer of the records (as was the point of the post/reply). Even to those that would buy the records, I am sure that few knew the work of Peter Saville (more so here in the USA), or DinDisc. I personally looked forward to the next PS cover, as the work that was hidden inside... even for the side projects from the band. I was going into the image of a band, for commercial purposes, not the image used on records, and its origins. To correct a bit, the image of the dying star was shown by Bernard to Peter, not a band decision I suppose. Of course, it was a great pun to use the image of the star itself for the sleeve of the Transmission single. Yes, it remained consistent that the band cared little for self-promotion through the sleeves (or even by producing other bands through the BeMusic name), which is commendable, and done by others. Once people were "in the know," and could spot a PS sleeve, I am sure that they could benefit from a few more record sales. Agreed with Section 25, but that was a fewer number than those that could have been potentially reached with more conventional image making process. Of course, Tony Wilson was all about image... a nice contradiction. cheers, - -fernando "who is finally selling his vast New Order collection, but cannot let go of the Joy Division one" and has written about the band as well ;) - --- Eric Klaver wrote: > -fernando: > At any rate, the merit of JD/NO can arguably be said to be rather good, yet, > the lack of image/promotion... > > ....................................... > > *lack* of image!! i don't know how old you are fernando, but the promotional > work at Factory and the other provider of PS's paycheque at the time, > DinDisc had a very distinct image. It was heavily codified but compared to > other albums being released at the time, it was distinct and screamed > "FACTORY! BUY ME" from the shelf amongst all the other generic design on the > shelf at the time. > > BTW, the image for Unknown Pleasures, a graphic spectral representation of a > dying star, was chosen by the band. They quite approved. I don't think JD > really gave a rats ass whether they could have sold a few thousand more > units if their name was on the album cover. Similarly with NO. Other acts > definitely benefitted from the image association. I remember seeing a > Section 25 album that screamed Saville, inquiring as to who it was, and > buying it as a result never having heard the music. > > Eric in Toronto __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 14:34:12 -0500 From: "Eric Klaver" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] image and information etc. Hello Eric, Sorry that a lack of clarity is questioned as a matter of my age... funny. Oh yes, the internet... where age is always brought up. ''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' thanks for that fernando. My comment on age is that often people forget the context into whcich these things originally appeared or they weren't around for it at all. I still have to disagree with the 'in the know' thing as well. One didn't have to be in the know to suspect something different was going on there. This reminds me of Alan Wilder's recoil project and his 3+4 release. I know someone who bought it at the same time as myself and we had been talking about it for some time with each other. Well, I go around to his place one day and he puts it on the turntable. Turns out that all this time he had been listening to it on 45rpm instead of 33-1/3rpm as there were no notes as to the speed of the record anywhere. It took some convincing to get him believe that that 33-1/3 was the correct speed. Wouldn't happen in this age now would it. 8-) ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V6 #371 *******************************