From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V6 #368 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Wednesday, December 10 2003 Volume 06 : Number 368 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [idealcopy] rocket from the atlanta tombs? ["dan bailey" ] Re: [idealcopy] Rough Trade Top 100 albums of 2003/White Tripe ["Keith As] Re: [idealcopy] rocket from the atlanta tombs? [Miles Goosens ] [idealcopy] Ed Special Radio [Ed Special ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2003 14:06:57 -0600 From: "dan bailey" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] rocket from the atlanta tombs? last night i alerted a friend of mine who lives in mcminnville to that show ... i've never been inside the venue (the exit/in), but must say it doesn't look particularly large (in march or so he & i saw the epoxies at the end, which is truly small, across the street). i know the memphis venue for the tour, the hi-tone, is pretty small -- i caught the jazz butcher there maybe 3 years ago. probably about right, insofar as the potential audience is probably pretty much limited to music obsessives. the echo is rather larger -- it's where wire played last year & mission of burma & the fall this year. dan >At 01:06 PM 12/9/2003 -0600, dan bailey wrote: >>been meaning to ask if any of the (2-person?) atlanta-area contingent plan >>to catch rocket from the tombs > >I'm seeing 'em here in Nashville (the current home of Cheetah Chrome -- we sort of discovered that he was in our midst, working in a warehouse here, after local rocker Tommy Womack released his song "Whatever Happened to Cheetah Chrome?") next Wednesday... > >later, > >Miles > >last played: Ted Leo/Pharmacists, HEARTS OF OAK (first listen) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 09 Dec 2003 22:15:01 +0200 From: "giluz" Subject: [idealcopy] Minimal Compact with Colin Newman For the last part in this stage of their reunion (and I do believe and hope there would be more) Minimal Compact will perform in Tel-Aviv next Tuesday with special guests Luc Van Lieshot and Colin Newman. Watch out for the release of their excellent 3-CD collection in January which will contain one CD of 'hits', one of remixes (vinyl versions to some of thise will also be available I think) and one CD of unreleased material, some of which was recorded in the early 90's, when the band didn't officially exist. You can find more info in www.crammed.de cheers giluz - -- http://www.fastmail.fm - Access all of your messages and folders wherever you are ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 09 Dec 2003 14:27:12 -0600 From: Miles Goosens Subject: Re: [idealcopy] rocket from the atlanta tombs? At 02:06 PM 12/9/2003 -0600, dan bailey wrote: >last night i alerted a friend of mine who lives in mcminnville to that show >... i've never been inside the venue (the exit/in), but must say it doesn't >look particularly large (in march or so he & i saw the epoxies at the end, >which is truly small, across the street). The Exit/In is much larger than the End, and I'd say larger than the Echo Lounge too -- the performance space is both longer and wider than the Echo Lounge's. You can probably stuff just as many people into the Echo Lounge (300, I'm guessing), but some of them would have to go into that side area with the 2nd bar but no view of the stage. The Exit/In also has a huge history here in Nashville; you can see an earlier version of the club in Robert Altman's NASHVILLE. Here's a good story about the history of the club, just before its latest reopening: http://tinyurl.com/yh0i There was once a plan in place to change the name of the End back to Elliston Square, which is what it was in the '80s and early '90s, before it shut down for a number of years. My first Nashville club show was there ('88: fIREHOSE, Screaming Trees, Clockhammer), so fogey me would like the old name back. Oddly, the last Pere Ubu show in town (which I missed, dammit) was at the End, but the more obscure Rocket from the Tombs is playing the Exit/In. later, Miles np: Tom Verlaine, FLASH LIGHT ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2003 14:48:08 -0600 From: "dan bailey" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] rocket from the atlanta tombs? My first Nashville club show was there ('88: fIREHOSE, oddly enough, considering how late in the game it is, only a couple of weeks ago did i finally get around to hearing firehose's ragin' full on (i already had flying the flannel & the covers ep) ... *excellent*, for the most part. it occurs to me that i probably ought to finally make an effort, too, to check out more of the minutemen's back catalogue (i've got only what makes a man start fires, as well as a dub of a bunch of early stuff, i think called we are time [could be i'm confusing that with the pop group, of course] or something like that). dan ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2003 12:56:04 -0800 (PST) From: Ari Britt Subject: Re: [idealcopy] no excuse Mark don't worry,Graeme withdrawal lasts only a couple of years,If ya need any help we're all here for ya.Ari MarkBursa@aol.com wrote:> Mister Rogers' Neighborhood > > WFUM Dec 11 06:00am > > Episode #1564. > A comet arrives in Make-Believe. ASTEROID!!!!! Mark ;-) New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2003 20:44:14 -0000 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Rough Trade Top 100 albums of 2003/White Tripe My two penneth... Image is only a problem when there's no substance behind it. Hello Busted!! (And numerous others...) As someone who likes Marc Bolans feather boa more than Bruce Springsteens denims, I have to concede that I haven't got a problem with the idea of image at all. Are some of you people saying that you NEVER had posters on your wall? Did you never feel tempted to draw an Aladin Sane lightning flash across your cheeks ; ) Why do a number of UK listees rave on about Joy Divisions performance on Something Else? Sure they played great versions of Transmission and She's Lost Control, but - hand on heart - can anyone here really say that it wasn't enhanced by Curtis fit-like movements? Kraftwerk. Velvets. Iggy. Nick Drake. John Lydon. Morrissey. I like how these people looked, you know. And Julian Cope's flying jacket says more to me than the entire back catalogue of The Eagles. I don't need pop stars to look like wank fodder, but - sexist alert! - there was a period in my life where I thought Siouxsie was pretty fit. And something tells me I wasn't alone here. The White Stripes might be over-rated, but I would prefer the press to rave on about them than most other current bands. White is a talented guitarist, they make the odd great track and they have a great image (bonus points awarded for use of cricket bat on album cover!). The Raveonettes are another current band who - with their use of Brando-like leathers - pull off the image thing IMO, but who also make great classic pop in the Beach Boys / Ramones / JAMC tradition. What was the best thing about British Sea Powers performance on Later? The geezer walking around with the bass drum, of course! What about album sleeves? Wire maybe didn't have much of a visual image (though the Eardrum Buzz look was great IMO!!), but didn't the sleeves of Pink Flag, Chairs Missing (fill in your own faves) compliment the music? Perhaps they even drew some of us in??? What about the Barbican gig? Once you start talking about visuals, you're moving into image territory as far as I'm concerned. Not fashion admittedly. But image...yeah. Kylie's new single, Slow, is a gorgeous slice of pop and one of my fave singles of the year. The Vines are shite. Keith NP Tarwater - silur - ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Roberts" To: ; Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2003 6:52 PM Subject: RE: [idealcopy] Rough Trade Top 100 albums of 2003/White Tripe > Interesting point leading to some sweeping generalizations no less. Hope > that what follows is taken with a pinch of salt. So here we go: > > Off the top of my head I'd say its a distinction based on where you think > music's authenticity is located i.e. it's down to variations in the > aesthetics of authenticity. > > The US has a tradition of rock journalism which predates the UK's. This has > engendered a clearer distinction between rock and pop in the US which isn't > so in the UK. For the US the authentic is found solely in rock which is > viewed in much the same way as canonical poetry i.e. as a complex work of > art beyond the realm of commercial, formulaic pop. Here we're not so keen > on rock because we remember Yes and ELP. Our rock journalism simply didn't > do this until a bit later. And seems to be heading the same way now. IOW > the UK has always been more pop infatuated than rock infatuated: note how > many of us UK listers love pop. And look at how pop our rock is. > > However, there is always the return of the repressed. The more someone > tells me that they are emphatically not interested in style it seems to me > that they are. > > Another interesting pointer: the persistance of post-war British > subcultures. The US seem to have discovered subcultures much later and for > different reasons. It seems as though it's relatively recently that the US > has had mods, skins, goths, punks in the subcultural sense. Subcultures > over here are largely theorised in terms of a symbolic reenactment of > rapidly erroding class identities. (Ooops I mentioned the C word! 8-) ) > US subcultures seem to me to be rather middle class and are not a reaction > to the erosion of the traditional working class community as witnessed here. > (Or at least that's the theory.) What can be said is that it seems as > though in the UK there is the tendency to locate authenticity in maintaining > a close link between a visual style and music as witnessed in subcultures. > I got into Wire because they and I were punk. I daresay that's not > eveybody's story but I bet there are a lot more Wire fans in the UK who did > exactly that than there are in the US. > > Gotta dash though now. Only logged on to check my email and not had my tea > yet! > > Cheers > > John > > > http://www.surf.to/ambition ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 09 Dec 2003 15:10:50 -0600 From: Miles Goosens Subject: Re: [idealcopy] rocket from the atlanta tombs? At 02:48 PM 12/9/2003 -0600, dan bailey wrote: >My first Nashville club show was there ('88: fIREHOSE, > >oddly enough, considering how late in the game it is, only a couple of weeks >ago did i finally get around to hearing firehose's ragin' full on (i already >had flying the flannel & the covers ep) ... *excellent*, for the most part. Yeah, I think it's their peak, actually. IF'N wasn't bad, either... >it occurs to me that i probably ought to finally make an effort, too, to >check out more of the minutemen's back catalogue (i've got only what makes a >man start fires, as well as a dub of a bunch of early stuff, i think called >we are time [could be i'm confusing that with the pop group, of course] or >something like that). You are hearby ordered to find a copy of DOUBLE NICKELS ON THE DIME -- absolutely essential, and while I'm hardly a vinyl purist, the vinyl still trumps either CD in both completeness (a couple of tracks, including the 38-second cover of Van Halen's "Ain't Talkin' 'Bout Love," get left off the CD) and sound (the first CD of DOUBLE NICKELS was so wretched that the second CD of it had a sticker saying "This is not the shitty mix!" but it still sounds thin). I'm also very fond of their '85 releases (3-WAY TIE FOR LAST and the PROJECT MERSH EP), though I fully expect my fellow Idealcopyists to stump for their earlier, more difficult stuff. One of the early Minutemen releases was PARANOID TIME; that may be what you're thinking of with the "We Are Time" title. later, Miles ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2003 15:36:13 -0600 From: "dan bailey" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] rocket from the atlanta tombs? turns out that even as i was sitting here floundering at the keyboard the 2nd trouser press record guide was sitting about 2 feet away, staring me in the face ... the tape in question is of the politcs of time, early stuff that goes all the way back to their original incarnation as the reactionaries. dan >One of the early Minutemen releases was PARANOID TIME; that may be what you're thinking of with the "We Are Time" title. > >later, > >Miles ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 01:08:07 -0000 From: "Keith Knight" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] Rough Trade Top 100 albums of 2003/White Tripe With you all the way on the new Kylie single, Keith - and I'm not someone particularly sold on Kylie. But was this the one that Andrew was referring to? Another the Keith (With you all the way on The Vines come to that) - -----Original Message----- From: owner-idealcopy@smoe.org [mailto:owner-idealcopy@smoe.org] On Behalf Of Keith Astbury Kylie's new single, Slow, is a gorgeous slice of pop and one of my fave singles of the year. The Vines are shite. Keith ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 01:25:29 -0000 From: "Keith Knight" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] Rough Trade Top 100 albums of 2003/White Tripe I think The White Stripes are a particularly interesting case in terms of their rise to fame. This wasn't some overnight hyped band of course - - they'd released two albums which are at least as good as the subsequent two. But no-one noticed them. I don't know if anyone picked up on the first two albums in the UK (presumably Peel if anyone) but I suspect that they were only discovered subsequently. The attention they then received two summers ago was extraordinarily swift - from Peel faves, through music press to national attention (including Radio 4 - a clear sign of establishment interest) in a few months. My recollection was that this wasn't due to unwarranted hype - it was that people heard their music and wanted more right now. As Andrew says they hit the zeitgeist. My wife is a typical example of how they got where they are. She has a middling interest in music - rarely buys things herself but is prepared to try new things. When I brought home a tape of De Stijl she purloined it on first listen, kept it in the car for a few weeks and then went out and bought the albums herself. Something similar must have happened around the country because they were huge before you could turn around. Despite the fact that they are now over-hyped and a bit irritating (they are clearly prepared to buy into the rock schtick in a way that Wire would never have wanted to), I still think they are a really fine band both on record and live. Jack White seems pretty talented to this non-guitar player - but so does Jimmy Page. Live, White actually conjured up visions of Page for me and that's pretty good news in my book. And at least he knows what he's appropriating and will reference it - I bet he's turned a number of people on to blues. Me, I'd rather listen to Zeppelin than Muddy Waters anyday, but I'm a lost cause. Another the Keith - -----Original Message----- From: owner-idealcopy@smoe.org [mailto:owner-idealcopy@smoe.org] On Behalf Of Jack Alberson Sent: 09 December 2003 16:23 To: idealcopy@smoe.org Subject: RE: [idealcopy] Rough Trade Top 100 albums of 2003/White Tripe Prepare for a massive diatribe and apologies in advance. I feel like qualifying my deep-seated hatred of the White Stripes by saying it's more that I sharply dislike the media's peddling of the duo as some genius musical zeitgeist. Jack White is no genius--there have been thousands to come before and appropriate blues musics (everyone from Elvis Presley and Robert Plant to, well, 75% of all the music to have been made since the 1950's at least). As a guitarist, he's no more talented than fellow blues plagiarist Jimmy Page (and depending on who you talk to, THAT is suspect). His songwriting isn't bad but nor is it the best thing since sliced bread. If it's their ethics that make them so damn amazing, why isn't everybody talking about Wire, a group who have a considerably more admirable code of ethics (and one that, for the mainstream, means our swimmers will never quite have the hype surrounding them that a group as palatable as the White Stripes have)? Acts like the White Stripes, The Strokes, The Hives, etc. have good influences and they're varying degrees of entertaining. I just wish the mainstream (and music media) could bring/would have brought more attention to the acts that led the way instead of writing it off as obscurist academia. Merely my two cents, Jack L. Alberson Property Administrator CB Richard Ellis First Tennessee Building 165 Madison Avenue Memphis, TN 38103 (901) 521-1748 - -----Original Message----- From: owner-idealcopy@smoe.org [mailto:owner-idealcopy@smoe.org] On Behalf Of dan bailey Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2003 1:05 AM To: ideal copy Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Rough Trade Top 100 albums of 2003/White Tripe >Lovely! I'll gladly get in line if it means there's more than one >person hating their overrated rubbish! > >(I risk all credibility in saying I like the Strokes) as do i -- their first lp, anyway. the new one hasn't penetrated my calloused eardrums yet. neither has the white stripes' ... whom i also like. so it goes. dan ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 02:00:03 -0000 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Rough Trade Top 100 albums of 2003/White Tripe > With you all the way on the new Kylie single, Keith - and I'm not > someone particularly sold on Kylie. But was this the one that Andrew > was referring to? I think it was. Andrew. Defend thy honour ; ) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 03:27:18 +0000 From: "Jason Rogers" Subject: [idealcopy] RE: rocket from the atlanta tombs? I thought about going to see Rocket From The Tombs tonight, but decided against it because I have an early court hearing for work tomorrow morning. I was at Criminal Records this afternoon in Little Five Points (to replace a damaged copy of Marvin Gaye's What's Going On) and briefly discussed Rocket From The Tombs with an acquaintance there who may or may not go. I am considering going to see Pernice Brothers at The Earl next week, though (Dec. 18). I have a decision to make, though, as one of my favorite local bands, Good Friday Experiment, is having their album release party on that same night at MJQ Concourse. Either way, I should be having a fun time that night. There's nothing else on the horizon for me right now that I know of. I saw the original lineup of Duran Duran a couple of weeks ago at The Tabernacle and, while it was an amazing show, it ate up my concert budget for a few weeks. I'll have to look up what else is on the way at Echo Lounge or The Earl for January; a friend pointed out that there is a Suicide Girls show at Echo Lounge in January and I freely admit that this intrigues me...lol, but probably won't go to that one. Jason >Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2003 13:06:07 -0600 >From: "dan bailey" >Subject: [idealcopy] rocket from the atlanta tombs? > >been meaning to ask if any of the (2-person?) atlanta-area contingent plan >to catch rocket from the tombs (reformation of the cleveland band that >schismed into pere ubu & the dead boys back in the mid-'70s, complete with >david thomas on vox & cheetah chrome on guitar, & richard lloyd of >television filling in on the other guitar for the late peter laughner) >tonight at the echo lounge. i'm hoping to shove off for those parts in an >hour or 2. > >dan > _________________________________________________________________ Dont worry if your Inbox will max out while you are enjoying the holidays. Get MSN Extra Storage! http://join.msn.com/?PAGE=features/es ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 03:49:46 +0000 From: "Jason Rogers" Subject: [idealcopy] RE: Annual Recommendations My 2003 recommendations are probably nothing out of the ordinary, but here goes: Ian McCulloch - Slideling Calla - Televise Pacific UV - Pacific UV Lost In Translation - Original Motion Picture Soundtrack (for the new stuff by Kevin Shields) British Sea Power - The Decline Of British Sea Power The Rapture - Echoes Kraftwerk - Tour De France Soundtracks Mogwai - Happy Songs For Happy People Broken Social Scene - You Forgot It In People The Mercury Program/Maserati - Confines Of Heat (Split EP) The Stills - Logic Will Break Your Heart OutKast - Speakerboxxx/The Love Below Yo La Tengo - Summer Sun Buzzcocks - Buzzcocks Pernice Brothers - Yours, Mine & Ours Ramones - NYC 1978 Elefant - Sunlight Makes Me Paranoid Frank Black And The Catholics - Show Me Your Tears Johnny Marr + The Healers - Boomslang David Bowie - Reality Azure Ray - Hold On Love The Strokes - Room On Fire Paper Lions - The Symptom And The Sick Zwan - Mary Star Of The Sea Radiohead - Hail To The Thief Ryan Adams - Rock N Roll Ladytron - Softcore Jukebox (a compilation, but that's alright) Ride - Waves Wire's Send is among my favorites, of course, but most of the songs were released in 2002. My favorite reissues of 2003: - - the first five Echo And The Bunnymen albums (this is a no-brainer for favorite reissues of the year) - - Guadalcanal Diary - Walking In The Shadow Of The Big Man/Jamboree - - Duran Duran - Singles 81-85 - - Talking Heads - Once In A Lifetime (just handle the packaging with care) - - Young Marble Giants - Colossal Youth - - The Rolling Stones - Get Yer Ya-Ya's Out! (live album remaster) - - Let's Active - Cypress/Afoot - - all of the old Simple Minds albums that were re-released in the U.S. this year How is the new Fall album, by the way? I saw Country On The Click at Criminal Records today, but was hesitant to pay the $24 import price without hearing the music first. Jason _________________________________________________________________ Winterize your home with tips from MSN House & Home. http://special.msn.com/home/warmhome.armx ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2003 23:52:52 -0800 (PST) From: kevin eden Subject: [idealcopy] orders Just another reminder that ALL WMO stock is on final countdown sale!! ALL at GBP5.00 Check for details by emailing first. Some items almost finished. Alternatively put 2nd and 3rd choices in case your first 1st choice no longer available. PayPal is accepted for payment. Hurry Hurry..21 days to go!! kevin eden http://www.wireviews.com/wmo/index.html "dreams that money can buy" New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 03:33:41 -0500 From: Ed Special Subject: [idealcopy] Ed Special Radio Ed Special Radio Am working on the last "Special Ed" radio collage for this semester (Wednesday Dec 10th, 12 to 2 PM, EST). I'm aiming somewhere between inane irreverence and sardonic repugnance. And it will probably cause some form of brain damage or at the very least, make you nauseous. http://www.wcbn.org/listen.html Time Zone conversion: http://www.convertit.com/Go/ConvertIt/World_Time/ Time_Zones_Map_Large.ASP http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/ http://members.tripod.com/~mark_fitz/timezone.htm Hope you'll be listening, Ed Special PS: I have signed up for Christmas radio this December 24th/25th Wed/Thur from 1 AM to at least 6 AM, probably later ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V6 #368 *******************************