From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V6 #321 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Tuesday, October 28 2003 Volume 06 : Number 321 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [idealcopy] RE: idealcopy-digest V6 #320 ["Wilson, Paul" ] Re: [idealcopy] this is uncool - continued...3a [MarkBursa@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] A Wire item you really should own... [MarkBursa@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] give 'em enough rope... ["Tim" Subject: [idealcopy] RE: idealcopy-digest V6 #320 Well, I read Bill's post. This is unusual for me because there's so much rubbish to wade through in IdealCopy, that I usually just scan the digest and then press delete. His post caught my eye. It was the best post I've read in IdealCopy for some time. I don't particularly like posts that have nothing to do with "Wire", but Bill's post was far more interesting that endless posts of "what I listened to last night" and stuff about REM, Killing Joke etc. etc. It seems to me that anything goes in the list - until someone gets upset - for whatever reason. Maybe I missed something previously (quite easy, as I rarely read many of the posts), but I didn't see a personal attack in there Paul Remember 9/11 - the day the Americans destroted democracy in Chile. Miles: >Is there no boundary that you won't cross? This goes beyond the pale of jocular rib-tickling and into the realm of actionable slander. ////////////////////////// I thought the very same thing as I read Bill's post. Extremely irresponsible and repugnant. I don't mind political activism on this list but this one smacks of a personal axe grinding. Eric in Toronto ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2003 11:33:15 -0000 From: "Keith Knight" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] RE: idealcopy-digest V6 #320 It was very personal. Graeme was effectively accusing Tim (who I assume works for Manchester Council) of negligence in the death of an Iranian refugee. Miles had no choice at all in this case - it went way beyond the pale, into the realm of litigious accusation. And, um, hasn't it been Graeme who's been endlessly posting about Killing Joke? Another the Keith - -----Original Message----- From: owner-idealcopy@smoe.org [mailto:owner-idealcopy@smoe.org] On Behalf Of Wilson, Paul Sent: 27 October 2003 09:47 To: 'Subs - IdealCopy' Subject: [idealcopy] RE: idealcopy-digest V6 #320 Well, I read Bill's post. This is unusual for me because there's so much rubbish to wade through in IdealCopy, that I usually just scan the digest and then press delete. His post caught my eye. It was the best post I've read in IdealCopy for some time. I don't particularly like posts that have nothing to do with "Wire", but Bill's post was far more interesting that endless posts of "what I listened to last night" and stuff about REM, Killing Joke etc. etc. It seems to me that anything goes in the list - until someone gets upset - - for whatever reason. Maybe I missed something previously (quite easy, as I rarely read many of the posts), but I didn't see a personal attack in there Paul Remember 9/11 - the day the Americans destroted democracy in Chile. Miles: >Is there no boundary that you won't cross? This goes beyond the pale of jocular rib-tickling and into the realm of actionable slander. ////////////////////////// I thought the very same thing as I read Bill's post. Extremely irresponsible and repugnant. I don't mind political activism on this list but this one smacks of a personal axe grinding. Eric in Toronto ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2003 13:03:09 GMT From: P J Kane Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Halloween in the Lou - Read this? << Interesting! This book will probably shed some light on the subject. -Bart http://www.csicop.org/si/2003-01/exorcism.html >> that's an awesome review Bart, thanks for the link. PJK please don't hate me because i can't type..... - --- All the cool kids are doing it: HTTP://www.EvilSponge.org ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2003 12:33:29 EST From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] this is uncool - continued...3 > >>PIL's last stand remains the strangest chart record of the last 25 yrs, > maybe > ever....<< Personally I'd go for 'To here knows when' by My Bloody Valentine, number 29 in the hit parade in 1991, pop pickers. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2003 18:42:30 +0000 From: "John Roberts" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT: GIGS [semi-plug] Just looking at my diary at the amount of gigs I've got coming up over the next few weeks and thinking some ICers might be interested. Chicken Legs Weaver are playing with Bocca at the Grapes in Sheffield this Halloween. CLW include ex-Comsat Angels drummer Mik Glaisher. Not that you'd know it from their sound. Blues as Buddy Guy would never play it. http://www.chickenlegsweaver.com Local legends Volcano the Bear are on in Leicester on Saturday. I know some listers (and in particular one recent and not missed departee) are keen on this lot who've had albums on United Dairies. See http://www.redleicester.com Michael Gira is on in Leicester on the Monday at the Charlotte. See http://www.magic-teapot.co.uk A week off before the Jacques Derrida film is on at the Phoenix in Leicester 11 Nov. Then a couple of gigs I'm promoting: NY anti folker Steve Shiffman at the Attik in Leicester on Thurs 13 Nov with Bocca. And for any old anarcho punks out there Lost Cherrees at the same place the following night. Another local legend Misterlee on Sat 15. Also http://www.redleicester.com Then Dylan in Sheffield on 20 Nov. Never seen him. Don't own a record by him. But my partner is a huge fan and she's talked me into going. It's her revenge for me taking her to see the Fall. Who needs London? But I have a feeling I'm going to be knackered by the 21st. Any listers going to any of these who fancy meeting up for a beer drop me an email off list. Token Wire content: anyone notice that posteverything found a box of old t shirts from the US tour? I ordered one and it turned up the following morning. Thought I'd get that in on account of us all moaning about the delay in the Send vinyl. 8-) Cheers John http://www.surf.to/ambition _________________________________________________________________ It's fast, it's easy and it's free. Get MSN Messenger today! http://www.msn.co.uk/messenger ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2003 15:15:15 EST From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] this is uncool - continued...3a thanks very much to the band booker on later for giving us both starsailor and texas......really , you spoil us. highlight of that show; the fabulous meeting of minds that was jools and dizzee rascal. cut that atmosphere with a knife......... p ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2003 15:06:31 -0800 From: Paul Pietromonaco Subject: [idealcopy] Wire on "Gimmie Skelter" Hi everyone, Does anyone know much about this? I've seen this record for sale in my local shops, but I don't know too much about it. http://buddyhead.com/recordings/ and http://www.gimmeskelter.com/ are the two main websites. According to the first URL, the Wire track is Spent (Louder, Faster Mix). Does anyone know anything about this mix? Cheers, Paul N.P. Joe Strummer and the Mescaleros - Streetcore ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2003 18:24:26 EST From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] this is uncool - continued...3a Next week's Later is better - but hardly earth-shattering... Jane's Addiction, John Cale, Nitin Sawhney and Simple Kid... the following week includes Sean Paul & the Coral... but there's no info beyond that on the Later site. How far ahead are the bookings made, I wonder? Mark ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2003 18:53:45 EST From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] A Wire item you really should own... http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2567152264&category=27351 Rare as hen's teeth, and no bids as yet. Worth having for the cover alone ;-) In a parallel universe, Rob became a megastar in 1976. Instead the best he could have hoped for with this lot is third on the bill to Roogalator and the Tyla Gang at the Hope & Anchor. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 00:22:38 -0000 From: "Tim" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] give 'em enough rope... OK first of all here's the story, and a grim story it is. Didn't even make the local paper if I recall. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/manchester/3077892.stm As it happens the guys name was Esrafeel Tajarogee (and we all know what a stickler for accuracy Bill was). It would be unfair to expect me to comment on this matter on this forum. So I won't. Suffice to say, I am no more responsible for his death than those of you who work in IT are responsible for the decline in sales of the Tandy TRS-80 in the mid 1980s. That said, I'm sure Mr Tajarogee would be glad to know he didn't die in vain, but was brought up in an obscure argument by some tosser in an off-topic post on a Wire mailing list to score points off some other tosser. Thirdly...To compare myself or my work colleagues with "guards of Aushwitz"? That's just so cheap, pathetic and offensive. But truly, I couldn't be more sincere about this, I didn't want Bill to leave the list as I still believe (MORE FOOL ME?) he had a lot to contribute and many words of his own unique brand of wisdom to share. However humourless, pompous, infuriating, naive and verbose I found his posts he may have been he was never less than entertaining. He was Challenging. Nowt wrong with that. But forgive me folks, I could not help but pop his ballooning pomposity and try and bring him down to earth. Maybe Its partly my fault that 'Bill is Dead' (AGAIN!) and I can only apologise to his fans (I'm a fan of his too.) But who really cares. There are a million and one arguments like this going on all over the web, all day, every day. Coming and going like dying cells. No one will care in about 24 hours...starting from......NOW So..........GET READY........1....2....3 ASTEROID!!!!!! http://www.webinfo.co.uk/crackedmachine/ "In years to come we'll all be living in these vast old peoples homes, wearing denim, listening to terrible music...on Zimmermans (cross between a Zimmer Frame and a Walkman)". Will Self. > I said to Graeme: > >Shall you uns*bscribe, or shall I do it for you? > > Actually, I've gone ahead and done it. > > later, > > listowner Miles ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 20:47:30 -0600 From: "dan bailey" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Halloween in the Lou >I've got to ask Dan (as no-one else has)... what the hell is the Isle of >Man's case of gef the talking mongoose? I mean, why is there a mongoose >at all on the IoM let alone a talking one? > >another the Keith *sigh* clearly, keith, those who ignore the past are condemned to repeat it. or something. anyway, this one entranced me when i first read about it in the pages of fate magazine back when i was 11 or so; on a few message boards over the last few years i have of course appeared as "gef the talking mongoose" (surely, too, a better name for a band than ned's atomic dustbin, come to think of it ...) >>During the 1930s, on the Isle of Man, a family called the Irvings, who lived in a small farmhouse, were to witness a particularly bizarre case of events. In the September of 1931, James Irving, his wife Margaret and their daughter Voirrey, started to hear strange noises like a wild animal, which emanated from the attic of the farmhouse. Curiously the "voice" behind these noises started to develop. In a similar way to a baby learning to speak, the cries started to turn into the words spoken by James Irving and were repeated parrot fashion by the unseen creature. In a very short space of time, the being had effectively learned to speak a good level of English! Soon the creature, apparently a mongoose by the name of Gef, introduced itself to the Irving family. He told them that he had been born on June 7, 1852, in Delhi, India. As well as talking, Gef, the mongoose, also developed a talent for singing. He knew the words to a good many popular songs and was also a bit of a joker, providing the family with an interesting source of entertainment, except for the time, when Gef pretended to have been poisoned, which the family did not find in the least bit amusing. Gef insisted on remaining hidden to the family, being seldom seen except for the daughter Voirrey. The mongoose apparently resided within the walls of the house or would perhaps hide in the garden. The only evidences that the creature existed were the sound of its voice and a few other strange happenings, such as objects being moved and thrown about the house. What sort of temperament did Gef have? The evidence available shows him to be of a benevolent and sensitive nature, but perhaps a little frisky and accident prone. Gef demonstrated his caring nature, during at least one occasion, when Margaret Irving managed to make contact with Gef. Margaret got to stroke the creatures fur, but unfortunately she cut her finger on Gef's sharp teeth in the process. Showing concern for the well-being of Margaret, Gef immediately instructed her to go and put ointment on the wound. On another occasion, Gef again showed his sensitive side. When the antics of the mongoose finally proved to be particularly annoying to the family, they threatened to move out of their house and leave him. This greatly upset Gef, who loved their company and was afraid that he would be left on his own. When the family decided to stay, Gef became much more obedient. Frequently Gef would venture out of the house and journey around the Isle. His exceptional elusiveness was used to great effect, when he would spy on other people and report back to the Irvings with his tales of what was happening locally. Occasionally, some of the locals reported hearing the odd sounds of an invisible creature, which they believed to be the Irving's "pet" mongoose. It is interesting to note at this point, that, on the Isle of Man in approximately 1912, a farmer who apparently owned some mongooses let them loose into his fields with the intention that they would kill the rabbits, which were proving to be quite a nuisance on his farmland. Could some of these mongooses have continued to have lived and bred on the Isle of Man? Of course, it was only a matter of time before the story started to spread away from the Isle of Man, with many more people getting to hear about it. The story was a great favourite with the British press, with many journalists flocking to the Irving household, to try and catch a glimpse of this so elusive creature. At about this time, the story was to capture the attention of a famous paranormal investigator of the time, named Harry Price. Price set out to conduct a proper scientific study of the Irving's farmhouse, to try an obtain conclusive evidence of the existence of the mongoose. He got together a team of investigators and scientists, with which to try and accomplish this task. The research itself was very unsuccessful. Price himself never even managed to catch so much as a glimpse of the animal, during his stay on the Isle. The resulting evidence produced was weak indeed, consisting of a few blurry photographs of something roaming outside, in the fields around the farmhouse. The best picture apparently bore quite a resemblance to a cat. Plus some hairs, which were found, were remarkably similar to those belonging to the Irving's dog, Mona. The British Natural History Museum, also studied some of the evidence and discredited the alleged paw print casts, which the Irvings claimed, were made by Gef. There was also a suggestion made that the voice of Gef was in actual fact made by the Irving's daughter Voirrey. Price's own probable conclusion to these events was that Gef was a fantasy which provided entertainment and interest for the Irving family. Well, you are probably wondering, what eventually became of Gef, if he did at all exist? The Irving family themselves finally moved out of the farmhouse in 1937. Later in 1947, the new owner of the farm claimed that he had shot a "strange looking mongoose like animal," which had been roaming around the property. Although some say that this may well have been Gef, the majority of people on the Isle of Man at the time were sure that Gef left the farmhouse along with the Irving family. When you consider how fond Gef was of the family, this makes for rather a pleasant end to the tale.<< > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-idealcopy@smoe.org [mailto:owner-idealcopy@smoe.org] On >Behalf Of dan bailey >Sent: 24 October 2003 22:23 >To: idealcopy@smoe.org >Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Halloween in the Lou > >jesus, yes. at the very least, the famed bell witch haunting site in >rural >tennessee -- the most remarkable poltergeist (or something) episode in >the >history of the u.s., if not the world (it beats the isle of man's case >of >gef the talking mongoose all hollow, i must say) -- deserves a book unto >itself. > > >dan ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V6 #321 *******************************