From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V6 #315 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Wednesday, October 22 2003 Volume 06 : Number 315 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [idealcopy] OT: cool product...... [Ari Britt ] [idealcopy] BSP on later........ [PaulRabjohn@aol.com] [idealcopy] Swedish Wirespace....was Belgian ["Andrew Lumbard" Subject: [idealcopy] OT: cool product...... http://www.pogoproducts.com/radio_yourway.html The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 12:41:30 +0100 From: Alistair Tear Subject: RE: [idealcopy] Interesting item on eBay UK web site item#2566505 734: WIRE LP COLOR VINYL HONI SOIT L@@@@@K Cheers for this Paul that cover looks very cool As far as I know it's available by mail order for #11 + p&p from here www.elistarec.com later A > Subject: [idealcopy] Interesting item on eBay UK web site > item#2566505734: WIRE LP COLOR VINYL HONI SOIT L@@@@@K > > > I saw this item for sale at eBay, The World's Online > Marketplace TM, and thought that you might be interested and > now you know what it looks like...... > > Title of item: WIRE LP COLOR VINYL HONI SOIT L@@@@@K > Seller: final-in-vinyl > Starts: 20-Oct-03 13:47:01 BST > Ends: 27-Oct-03 12:47:01 GMT > Price: Starts at US $15.00 > To bid on the item, go to: > http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2566505734 > > > Item Description: > > > Interpret: Wire  > Titel: Honi Soit  > Format: LP  > Label-Matrix: SHSP PRO 1979Condition Record: M-Condition > Cover: M-Special > Info´s: White Vinyl, Live Rockpalast 1979 > TRACKLIST: 40 Versions - French Film - Men 2ND - Map Ref, > 410N930W - Heartbeat > - Pink Flag - The 15th - Pratctice makes Perfect - I Feel > Mysterious Today - > Being Sucked In agai - Single K.O. - Mercy - Our Swimmer - > Midnight Bahnhof > Cafe  > > VERSANDBEDINGUNGEN / SHIPPING RATES > ( We are located in GERMANY) > > GERMANY : In Deutschland beträgt > unsere Versandkostenpauschale  € 5 EURO, > der Versand erfolgt in einen Versandkarton mit 2 Schutzeinlegern. > > Wir versenden ausschliesslich als versichertes Paket mit > Paketdiensten, kein > Versand als Päckchen oder Waresendung. > > > > ZAHLUNG / > PAYMENT > : > > GERMANY: Zahlung ist möglich > per Überweisung auf Konto: > > VOLKBANK-AHLEN  -  KONTO: 559 254 301  - >  BLZ : 412 625 > 01 > > oder > > POSTBANK DORTMUND  -  KONTO : 135 272 462  - >  BLZ : 440 > 100 46 > > VISA oder MASTERCARD, V-Scheck oder Bar als Einschreiben. > > BEI ZAHLUNG BITTE IMMER NAMEN UND EBAY NUMMER MIT ANGEBEN, DANKE > > OVER GERMANY: > > Before you send the payment, please wait until you got your > confirmation, > we will answer asap within 3 days. > > For payment we accept VISACARD and > MASTERCARD , PAYPAL > or CASH by REGISTERED LETTER. > > BEWARE WE DON`T ACCEPT CHECKS OR MONEY > ORDER > > PAYMENT MUST BE ARRIVED IN 30 DAYS > > Any question about condition or shipping rates , please use the URL: >  www.vinylspecialist.de >  or send email to : > vinylspeci@aol.com . > > If you want I can send you a scan of the record by JPEG format. > > All the Best and HAPPY HUNTING > > > > Visit eBay, The World's Online Marketplace TM at > http://www.ebay.co.uk > ************************************************************************* The contents of the e-mail and any transmitted files are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. Transport for London Street Management hereby excludes any warranty and any liability as to the quality or accuracy of the contents of this e-mail and any attached transmitted files. If you are not the intended recipient, be advised that you have received this e-mail in error and that any use, dissemination, forwarding, printing or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please notify postmaster@Streetmanagement.org.uk. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept for the presence of computer viruses. ************************************************************************* ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 12:32:58 GMT From: P J Kane Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Electronic Wirespace (LATE reply) << for some of us, music is a very spiritual and personal thing.... >> and nothing that either of us has said disputes that claim! why can't music be both spiritual AND interactive? << not all music (some of it IS mindless entertainment)...but for some of us, music is travelling without moving... >> i said "entertainment", you added "mindless". for me, music is MINDFUL entertainment. even when some rocker is up there slinging his guitar around, it is still about being involved and being interactive. "mindless" to me sounds like TV -- where the viewer is totally passive.... << oh really? seems to me that the word/idea/actuality of a "concert" was around long before there was "rock" or "jazz" even in western society...maybe you should do some research.. >> there were "performances" before rock -- if by that you mean "the symphony". there were dances as well. but a "concert"? << HOWEVER, while WIRE are indeed "old" they are most certainly not fogeys...thay are still relevant...they stay ahead of the curve...they always have something exciting and new and different to say.....they are not standing around in spandex and make-up doing high-kicks and singing about rock-n-rolling the night away.... >> i thought you had said, at some point, that you aknowledge that Rap now holds the public consciousness. in this, literally, post-Rock world, isn't any rocker, by definition, obsolete? rap is the new rock, and rock in the new jazz. << Van Halen opening for Black Sabbath around 1977 maybe... >> wow, lucky you! that must've been a show.... << ahh...kind of odd for someone who is so into visual stimulation and can't feel his "humaness" without it. >> again -- apples and oranges. i have the sense of sight, and i want it stimulated at a show. a movie takes the sense of sight a bit further and involves "suspension of disbelief", something i have a bit of a problem with i suppose..... << and i still contend that can be done without all the theatrics >> but that's boring! << in case you haven't noticed or have been living under a rock, rap music (at least in the USA) has now replaced rock music as the most popular form of music with the masses >> right. rap is the new rock, and rock is the new jazz. which makes jazz... what, the new ragtime? << you poor fellow....you must be going to death metal shows....the girls at "rock" concerts are one of the few visual stimulants to even bother with.... >> actually i go mostly to local indie rock shows in ATL. the ratio of male to female tends to be 5 to 1. << you don't? you really should do more research...there is a lot more homoerotic imagery in rock/pop than you can shake a stick at... >> it is possible to admire someone without wanting to have sex with them. i can admire Ben Gibbard, even be envious of his svelte form (as compared to my early 30's beer got), and not want to do him. << no...most of them just look like idiots.... >> one man's idiocy is, apparently, another man's fun. << and i find lots of other ways to have fun on my own...i do not need to live vicariously through some bloated rock star...the need to emulate my "idols" died when i left my teens... >> i am sorry to hear that you no longer have dreams or ambitions or fantasies. i hope i never get like that.... << um no.....example: i would trade ANY concert experience in my life to have been at the Gilbert/Lewis/Mills MZUI: Waterloo Gallery exhibition.....and a lot of it was audience interactive.....which is to say that the audience played a part in making the sounds for the installation...... >> but that's an entirely different thing -- it's not a concert it's an installation. again, apples and oranges. << you can't be serious as to claim that any home stereo could match the sound system at a concert. >> i have a nice Sony/Technics component system and a high-end pair of Bose headphones. i can get really awesome sound. sure, it's not the kind that shakes your sternum, but it sounds really good and deep. << and besides, even if i had that fantastic of a sound system, i live in an apartment building and respect the peace of my neighbors (for the most part) >> thus, the headphones. << so as long as the gestures there (even if they are fake) everything is peachy with you? >> even if they are fake gestures (not even sure what that would mean, but) the artists are still aknowledging the presence of other humans, so yes, that is the bare minimum i expect from a performer. and note that when a person has a concert they go from being a musician (somebody who composes and records music) to being a performer (someone who entertains a crowd). these are very different things. << well, anyone can attach a simple meaning to something >> right. so all of those simple meanings are, ultimately, meaningless, since they are completely subjective. << (wincing at the word "cojones") and lose their contract and thus their chosen living? >> but it's NOT their chosen living, if they motives are as you say. performing is, in itself, a compromise. and so they do a half-assed job of it. instead, i would have more respect for them if they stood up for themselves and refused to tour. XTC get away with it -- why not Autechre? << yes....entertain me! entertain me damn you! it's sad that's all we Americans strive for is to be entertained....like it's our right!..like some fat lazy slob royalty with chicken grease running down our chins....entertain me you slaves! you here for my entertainment! >> it is given the context: i go someplace, pay money for entertainment, so yes i expect to be entertained. i think you are extrapolating a bit far from this, but really -- there has been a business transaction, and Autechre failed to live up to their side of it. that is all. i suppose the time has come for us (that is, Robert and PJ) to admit that we are two drastically opposite ends of a spectrum. i suspect that most people are in the middle -- really good music with no stage show is better than a lot of stage show with abysmal music. yeah, that's probably about right. PJK please don't hate me because i can't type..... - --- All the cool kids are doing it: HTTP://www.EvilSponge.org ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 09:20:57 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Electronic Wirespace (LATE reply) > there were "performances" before rock -- if by that you mean "the > symphony". there were dances as well. but a "concert"? > Not all classical music is symphonic.... Suggest you do some research before making yourself look silly. Start by looking up 'concert' in the dictionary. Markj ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 10:00:20 EDT From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Electronic Wirespace (LATE reply) In a message dated 10/21/03 7:35:02 AM Central Daylight Time, postlibyan@netzero.com writes: > << and i find lots of other ways to have fun on my own...i do not need to > live vicariously through some bloated rock star...the need to emulate my " > idols" died when i left my teens... >> > > i am sorry to hear that you no longer have dreams or ambitions or fantasies. > i hope i never get like that.... there's more to life than rock-n-roll....i have plenty of ambitions and fantasies (even if most of them involve Catherine Zeta Jones) but none of them have to do with being a rock star on stage performing.....i dream about things that will serve me well as i get older.... RL ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 07:12:01 -0700 From: "Eric Klaver" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Electronic Wirespace (LATE reply) Markj: Start by looking up 'concert' in the dictionary. ///////////////////////////////// Good idea. Any oppurtunity to read the dictionary, I take. from www.m-w.com Main Entry: 1con7cert Pronunciation: 'kdn(t)-s&rt, 'kdn-"s&rt Function: noun Etymology: French, from Italian concerto, from concertare Date: 1674 1 obsolete : musical harmony : CONCORD 2 a : agreement in design or plan : union formed by mutual communication of opinion and views b : a concerted action 3 : a public performance (as of music or dancing) - - concert adjective - - in concert : TOGETHER Anyone with an OED handy out there that can find the origin of the modern meaning? Eric in Toronto ____________________________________________________________ Free 20MB Web Site Hosting and Personalized E-mail Service! Get It Now At Doteasy.com http://www.doteasy.com/et/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 14:11:32 GMT From: P J Kane Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Electronic Wirespace (LATE reply) << there's more to life than rock-n-roll.... >> VISCOUS LIES! i'll hear none of it! << i have plenty of ambitions and fantasies (even if most of them involve Catherine Zeta Jones) >> actually, Catherine Zeta-Jones is a most noble ambition, IMHO. hey -- has anyone seen her new movie yet? it didn't look all that amusing from the commercials, but it does have CZJ in it.... << but none of them have to do with being a rock star on stage performing.....i dream about things that will serve me well as i get older.... >> you're a pragmatist? i would never have gathered that! shows how much attention i was paying... PJK please don't hate me because i can't type..... - --- All the cool kids are doing it: HTTP://www.EvilSponge.org ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 14:18:26 GMT From: P J Kane Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Electronic Wirespace (LATE reply) Mr. Bursa: << Start by looking up 'concert' in the dictionary. >> from www.m-w.com << 3 : a public performance (as of music or dancing) >> so does that mean me playing my stereo loudly for people constitutes a "concert"? how about those schmoes with the really booming car stereos that drive through your neighborhood late at night -- that is public, so is it a "concert"? methinks my personal definition is a bit more precise, but, whatever. wouldn't be the first time is was etymologically incorrect! PJK please don't hate me because i can't type..... - --- All the cool kids are doing it: HTTP://www.EvilSponge.org ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 15:22:57 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Monochromatic=20Man?= Subject: [idealcopy] OT: Outrageous Shipping Charges (was Interesting item on eBay) Why is shipping from Germany so expensive??? I hate to buy anything from there. I just bought a cd and lp from Sister Ray and they charged ten pounds for shipping!!! What a rip off! Of course, there is no postage mark on the envelope so I don't know how much it really was. If I bought the same from Amazon or Mute it's usually half that. AND I wasn't refunded my VAT! never again... wnd3 --- paulrabjohn@aol.com wrote: > I saw this item for sale at eBay, The World's Online > Marketplace TM, and thought that you might be > interested and now you know what it looks like...... > > Title of item: WIRE LP COLOR VINYL HONI SOIT L@@@@@K > > Seller: final-in-vinyl > Starts: 20-Oct-03 13:47:01 BST > Ends: 27-Oct-03 12:47:01 GMT > Price: Starts at US $15.00 > To bid on the item, go to: > http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2566505734 ________________________________________________________________________ Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Yahoo! Messenger http://mail.messenger.yahoo.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 10:30:22 EDT From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT: Outrageous Shipping Charges (was Interesting item on eBay) In a message dated 10/21/03 9:25:23 AM Central Daylight Time, xj23@yahoo.com writes: > Why is shipping from Germany so expensive??? > > I hate to buy anything from there. > > I just bought a cd and lp from Sister Ray and they > charged ten pounds for shipping!!! What a rip off! i thought Sister Ray was in London? RL ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 07:34:17 -0700 From: "Eric Klaver" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Electronic Wirespace (LATE reply) PJK: is it a "concert"? > >methinks my personal definition is a bit more precise, but, whatever. wouldn't be the first time is was etymologically incorrect! ///////////////////////////////////////// well, no one really owns a word, it is simply how we communicate. What was "gay" before the 60s? Eric in Toronto (that's not the answer, that's just my signature. I mean, I wasn't even alive before 1967, I mean.... am I being too defensive?) ____________________________________________________________ Free 20MB Web Site Hosting and Personalized E-mail Service! Get It Now At Doteasy.com http://www.doteasy.com/et/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 16:56:26 +0200 From: Bart van Damme Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Electronic Wirespace (LATE reply) > well, no one really owns a word, it is simply how we communicate. What was > "gay" before the 60s? What's that 50's movie called where Rock Hudson says something like "I feel so gay today"? Bart ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 11:04:34 EDT From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Electronic Wirespace (LATE reply) In a message dated 10/21/03 9:56:59 AM Central Daylight Time, bartvandamme@home.nl writes: > What's that 50's movie called where Rock Hudson > says something like "I feel so gay today"? > > Bart > Bart, Bart, Bart,...sometimes i am ashamed to be a figment of your imagination... RL ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 16:16:28 +0100 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Electronic Wirespace (LATE reply) >i dream about things >that will serve me well as i get older.... Is that 'things' or nursing staff that look like Catherine Zeta Jones? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 11:14:09 EDT From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Electronic Wirespace (LATE reply) In a message dated 10/21/03 10:12:22 AM Central Daylight Time, keith.astbury10@virgin.net writes: > >i dream about things > >that will serve me well as i get older.... > > Is that 'things' or nursing staff that look like Catherine Zeta Jones? > > you win the prize Mr. Astbury! RL ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 11:23:12 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT: Outrageous Shipping Charges (was Interesting item on eBay) > I just bought a cd and lp from Sister Ray and they > charged ten pounds for shipping!!! What a rip off! > Of course, there is no postage mark on the envelope so > I don't know how much it really was. If I bought the > same from Amazon or Mute it's usually half that. > AND I wasn't refunded my VAT! never again... > Siater Ray is in London. Our postage charges to the US are a lot higher than postage charges from US to UK in my experience. Canada to UK is also more expensive than US to UK. I can only assume the US system is in some way subsidised in a way that ours is not. Perhaps greater volumes of domestic post make it affordable to offer cheaper 'export' rates. Or maybe ours overcharges! Still, pays Vic Godard's wages so I can't complain ;-) Mark ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 08:33:13 -0700 From: "Eric Klaver" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Electronic Wirespace (LATE reply) >What's that 50's movie called where Rock Hudson >says something like "I feel so gay today"? > >Bart /////////////// i honestly don't know Eric in Toronto ____________________________________________________________ Free 20MB Web Site Hosting and Personalized E-mail Service! Get It Now At Doteasy.com http://www.doteasy.com/et/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 17:43:53 +0200 From: Bart van Damme Subject: Re: [idealcopy] The Celluloid Closet >> What's that 50's movie called where Rock Hudson >> says something like "I feel so gay today"? > Bart, Bart, Bart,...sometimes i am ashamed to be a figment of your > imagination... > RL NOW what did I do? There really IS a film in which Rock says it. I saw a snippet of it in a rather good documentary (The Celluloid Closet) about the secret gay lingo in Hollywood films. There was another bit about the actor playing Messala in Ben Hur which apparently was head over heels on Charlton Heston. The producers didn't let the old rightwinger know this of course. http://www.rochestergoesout.com/mov/c/cellul.html Bart ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 10:19:45 -0700 (PDT) From: Ari Britt Subject: [idealcopy] To drag the conversation a little further............(concerts) about 15 years ago or more I went to a Bob Dylan show here in Chapel Hill,(stop sniggering Keith).....he walked on stage,played his music and walked off,not a hello I'm Bob,not a single acknowledgement of the other players,worste yet,not a single refference to the audience's presence.I never purchased a Dylan album again. I strongly believe that an entertainer should entertain AND acknowledge the audience,which is why The Cure are such a great Band to see live :even in their early daze (first time I saw them was at the Odeon,Hammersmith 1980.) Which is also why,after that first 'experience' of them live I never went to see Tangerine Dream live again.............zzzzzzzzzzzzzari The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 13:33:30 -0400 From: Ed Special Subject: [idealcopy] Laddie Magazine From another list: > -------- Alkuperdinen viesti -------- > Aihe: Laddie Magazine > Ldhettdjd: Maurizio M > Pdivdys: Ti, Lokakuu 21, 2003 15:09 > > . > > 'LADDIE' MAGAZINE TARGETS SOLDIERS > > A British publisher has created a new "laddie" magazine tailored for > soldiers deployed in the Middle East, Asia and Europe, as well those > stationed in the United States. > > Beginning this week, the magazine Drill will appear in military stores, > the London Telegraph reports. Modeled after civilian magazines Maxim > and > FHM, Drill provides tips on the quickest way to get "six-pack abs" or > "Sergeant Rock's sex tips: Yes-Fly Zone." [1] > > "Soldiers have the exact same interests as other men, but they have > more > money to spend," says Lance Gould, editor of Drill. "Their average > income is $42,500, but with the military covering housing and > education, they have more cash for leisure interests." > > > [1] Articles submitted by MM: > > > * Lift that veil (Iraqi special) > > * Don't ask, but DO tell (When is it safe to come out during combat) > > * Pros and cons of joining the French Foreign Legion (Better Pay & > Better Uniforms But You Must Learn French) > > * Showering tips. When it is safe to pick up that soap > > * Shoot back or turn the other cheek? (A Christian dilemma) > > * Does the new body armour make you look fat? > > > > M Ed Special ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 14:18:46 EDT From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: [idealcopy] BSP on later........ well surprised to hear no comment on this following the bigging up in advance. taped it and finally got to watch it this morning during breakfast with my nearly-3 year old daughter. she stared at them quite intently for a minute or so then turned to me and asked ; "daddy , why has that silly man got a saucepan on his head"? a question to which i fear there is no sensible answer p ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 19:42:57 +0100 From: "Andrew Lumbard" Subject: [idealcopy] Swedish Wirespace....was Belgian http://svt.se/hogafflahage/hogafflaHage_site/Kor/hestekor.swf ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 23:33:25 EDT From: Eardrumbuz@aol.com Subject: Re: movies, was [idealcopy] Electronic Wirespace (LATE reply) In a message dated 10/21/03 8:35:02 AM, postlibyan@netzero.com writes: > a movie takes the sense of sight a bit further and involves "suspension >of disbelief", something i have a bit of a problem with i suppose..... do you like hitchcock movies? - -paul c.d. www.mp3.com/winteracademy ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 00:14:37 -0400 From: Ed Special Subject: [idealcopy] Negativland/ClearChannel Ed Special ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 00:17:10 -0400 From: Ed Special Subject: [idealcopy] Negativland/ClearChannel (take 2) (sorry about the blank one) try again: http://seattle.indymedia.org/front.php3?article_id=17743&group=webcast Ed Special ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V6 #315 *******************************