From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V6 #308 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Thursday, October 16 2003 Volume 06 : Number 308 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [idealcopy] I'm suprised no one's...... [Ari Britt ] RE: [idealcopy] I'm suprised no one's...... ["Eric Klaver" ] Re: [idealcopy] Re:Clapham Grand [P J Kane ] Re: [idealcopy] Re:Clapham Grand ["Keith Astbury" ] Re: [idealcopy] [needlessly meta] on the nature of mailing lists, and of wire, and of being a music fan ["] Re: [idealcopy] don't worry bout BSP [Ari Britt Subject: [idealcopy] I'm suprised no one's...... ......mentioned OMD in all of this............Ari The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 11:00:39 +0100 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Electronic Wirespace > As for Four Tet, I'd never heard them until last week, when I successfully > identified them by watching about 10 seconds of a video on MTV2's 120 minutes > (having missed the bit at the start where they tell you who the artist is). It > sounded like Autechre lite, and I said "I bet that's Four Tet". Nice enough, > but hardly ground breaking. I think the appeal of the Four Tet cd is very hard to describe. I tried to describe it to someone I've known for yrs, but knew that when I was comparing one track to Tubular Bells it was time to stop! All I will say is that it's still my album of the yearand that several tracks (in particular the lengthy Unspoken) have moments of true beauty. It might not be groundbreaking, it may be fairly light, but I find some of it genuinely moving. I'll stop there except to mention that there's a great little noise that pops up from nowhere on one track that reminds me of that duck noise on Pet Sounds, so Tim may appreciate that if nothing else ; ) K. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 12:19:22 +0100 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Glam Wirespace > > >>Or Blackfoot Sue to glam. << > > Were they glam? Looked and sounded like an old rock band hopping on the > bandwagon. That was my point. Glam's very own 999! (And they managed to make a pretty decent single too) >Who was in the glam Wirespace? Roxy I suppose. Sparks? Roxy I guess. Though Sparks may have provided the blueprint for a band that keeps coming back and re-inventing itself. (Musically anyway. Most of us would have puts odds on Ron's moustache being a silly phase he was going through, but he said it was there for keeps and by jove he meant it). > >>Or Echo &the Bunnymen to post-punk ; ) > (Ooh! Controversial!)<< > > Wouldn't disagree, though the drum machine phase was original enough. The drum machine phase was marvellous. I still wish they'd cut their first album then. > Was post-punk a scene in itself or an extension > of punk? Certainly intelligence was central to all the bands. In some ways > Post-punk was one big Wirespace, so its Wirespace would have been an > Anti-wirespace occupied by really moronic bands that nevertheless sounded massively > original. I was just about to suggest the Comsat Angels, and then I read the bit about originality ; ) > Wyatt has never tried to sound American. Big part of his appeal. Wonderful > cover version too, and it got a man in a wheelchair on TOTP in 1974... Singing a Monkees hit, to boot. > > Mark. This goat business is starting to turn into something of an obsession > > you know!<< > > It's the smell... I know where I can get my, er, hands on one if you're interested ; ) K. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 07:25:03 EDT From: Tisbili@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] don't worry bout BSP tim@kidsindestructible.com writes: > BSP sound like one of those long forgotten mid 80s indie bands that Virgin > would regularly snap up, Yep. Without the benefit of seeing them live, and on first listen, so far I'd say BSP=Microdisney 2003. billE np: BSP - the decline of... ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 07:33:10 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Glam Wirespace > >>>That was my point. Glam's very own 999! (And they managed to make a > pretty > decent single too)<< Standing in the road. Think I might have that. On the very wonderful Jam label, with a big splat of Jam on it! > >>Who was in the glam Wirespace? Roxy I suppose. Sparks? > > Roxy I guess.<< Brian Eno's first solo albums too. > >>Though Sparks may have provided the blueprint for a band that keeps > coming > back and re-inventing itself. (Musically anyway. Most of us would have puts > odds on Ron's moustache being a silly phase he was going through, but he > said it was there for keeps and by jove he meant it).<< Certainly durable, and just sbout the only vaguely credible still-creative act of the time (unless you count the Dame, and I've still not heard the new album so the cred remains very vague!) > >>>The drum machine phase was marvellous. > > I still wish they'd cut their first album then.<< I suspect it'd have been a struggle over the distance. The Peel session is stretching it. That drum machine had only about 2 usable settings. Maybe they should have done a few songs with a Bossanova or Rhumba beat ;-) > >>I was just about to suggest the Comsat Angels, and then I read the bit > about > originality ; )<< Intelligent and original - fitted perfectly into post-punk. Loved the spacey, separate, harmonics-driven sound of the early stuff like Total War and Independence day, and equally loved the way the switched to a really dense, layered sound on Sleep No More (a really, really underrated album). History would be much kinder to the Comsats hasd they split after Do the Empty House. Instead they tried to become Flock of Seagulls, dynamiting their credibility almost irretrievably. Check out the cover of 7 Day weekend for comedy results of the makeover. > > >>I know where I can get my, er, hands on one if you're interested ; )<< Branching out from the usual sheep, then... Mark ;-) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 07:40:27 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] don't worry bout BSP > >>BSP sound like one of those long forgotten mid 80s indie bands that > Virgin > >would regularly snap up, > > Yep. Without the benefit of seeing them live, and on first listen, so far > I'd say BSP=Microdisney 2003.<< > Which sort of proves the point ATKeith & I were making in the first > place... > > Mark ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 12:32:10 GMT From: P J Kane Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Electronic Wirespace << I Don't 'get' that Four Tet album at all, despite massive critical acclaim. I'm alone in this cos everyone seems to love it. >> no, you are not alone -- i don't "get" it either. we should apparently start a 12-step program for this: "Hello, my name is PJK and i think that the latest 4Tet album sounds almost exactly like the last one, which wasn't all that new sounding anyway." although to be fair i enjoy his work in Fridge (he's the dummer, right?), who i would sum up as "nicely Tortoise-y". << My bandmate rang me at 8am one Saturday morning >> which is utterly wrong to begin with -- no human should be up at 8 AM on a Saturday, especially not due to a phone call.... << Autechre definitely deserve a place in Wirespace....they make very good records that can't really be contained in such a narrow definition as electronica, they are very much outside that box....for me their records stand up to any rock music and seem to have a lot longer shelf-life than yer average Laptop-bedroom boys. Their stuff from the early 90s still sounds fresh which is more than can be said for a lot of 10 year old electronic stuff. >> i agree with this assessment on their music, but if you feel (as you said in a part of your email i edited out of my reply) that there is a necessary "live" element to being in Wirespace, i offer the following personal anecdote: i saw Autechre open for Tortoise at The Roxy Theatre in Atlanta on Thu.24.May.01. there is a full review of this show on my site: http://www.evilsponge.org/concert/Tortoise__24May01.htm . Here is what i said: "I was standing there -- listening to the music, and the two members of Autechre obviously got all of the gear tweaked and loaded just right, so they sat down on the back of the stage to have a smoke break. I was left listening to music and staring at, basically, a big complicated stereo. And i realized -- this is like listening to Autechre at home. Only my stereo is not quite so loud and the acoustics in my apartment are not quite so good. However, if i was creating this experience at home it might be quieter, but i could have my cat in my lap, which is a plus. I weighed the situation for a minute or two and then decided that i could listen just as well out in the lobby while standing in line for the restroom." they took a fr*ggin SMOKE BREAK in the middle of their show, leaving the audience in a darkend club staring at a stage full of gear that was cranking out music. WTF??? now, i really liked what i was hearing, but still -- at least try and put some effort into a stage show, okay? which is something i will say in favor of the band Plaid. musically they are equally parts Boards of Canada and Aphex Twin (which is a decent blend, really, but which seems to wear on me after a while...), but live they are energetic. they are the only eelectronic act i have seen that bothered to, ~gasp~, interact with the crowd. they smiled, waved, chatted, danced..... i dunno -- maybe this is an American thing, but seeing a show where a couple of people stand over a bunch of gear and don't really move or anything, well, that's dull.... which is why, although i like electronic music, i am very skeptical of going to see the performers on tour... PJK please don't hate me because i can't type..... - --- All the cool kids are doing it: HTTP://www.EvilSponge.org ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 10:32:31 -0400 From: "Eric Klaver" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] I'm suprised no one's...... OMD's Wire simularities: Three distinct periods of output Wishes the (late) 80s output had never really happened Likes the earliest stuff the best Other than that I have always approahed OMD as primarily a pop band and not an art band (hence them signing to DinDisc rather than pursuing Factory) which is where I would loosely place both Eric in Toronto - -----Original Message----- From: owner-idealcopy@smoe.org [mailto:owner-idealcopy@smoe.org]On Behalf Of Ari Britt Sent: October 16, 2003 5:30 AM To: idealcopy@smoe.org Subject: [idealcopy] I'm suprised no one's...... ......mentioned OMD in all of this............Ari The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 10:45:51 -0400 From: "Eric Klaver" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] Electronic Wirespace << I Don't 'get' that Four Tet album at all, despite massive critical acclaim. I'm alone in this cos everyone seems to love it. >> no, you are not alone -- i don't "get" it either. we should apparently start a 12-step program for this: "Hello, my name is PJK and i think that the latest 4Tet album sounds almost exactly like the last one, which wasn't all that new sounding anyway." although to be fair i enjoy his work in Fridge (he's the dummer, right?), who i would sum up as "nicely Tortoise-y". ///////////////////////////// Well that makes a sh*t load of sense. I heard Four Tet for the first time in a Peel Session, and thought "that sounds a lot like Fridge." I love my "Happiness" Album. Eric in Toronto ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 10:50:40 EDT From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] don't worry bout BSP In a message dated 10/15/03 7:40:15 PM Central Daylight Time, threeduggaduggas@yahoo.com writes: > Couldn't agree with you more Tim,Keith.A or Robert sent me a BSP c.d and try > as I might I didn't get it (them) at all.............but then if we all liked > the same stuff.............how boring would that be? Ari wasn't me....i don't even know who you are talking about RL ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 10:57:37 EDT From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re:Clapham Grand In a message dated 10/16/03 1:09:16 AM Central Daylight Time, edspecial@digitalrealm.net writes: > For a while, I thought George W. Bush an idiot until I realized his > extreme intelligence and wit. > He explained to us that the reason everyone hates America is because > "they hate our freedom." > Now I see the supreme genius behind his ploy, shred our constitution, > remove our civil liberties and continue the legacy of his family's > obsession with fascism. > Simple. > Brilliant. > Everyone will love us by the time he and his cabal are finished with us > all. > > Ed Special well...instead of all the bitching and moaning, let's do something about it!...if we feel so strongly about the filthy bastard then it's up to us to get rid of him....WE must vote him out of office...WE must persuade enough people to vote against him.... our only other choices are to wait for an assasination or to move out of the country...it's that simple.. RL ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 16:09:51 +0100 From: Andrew Walkingshaw Subject: [idealcopy] [needlessly meta] on the nature of mailing lists, and of wire, and of being a music fan It's noticeable that the list has been particularly quiet recently; we've lost quite a few subscribers (eg Michael Flaherty, and possibly Bill Hick) who post a lot of very interesting material. Here's something which has been floating around my brain for a while; the Wire Brainwashed vid, and some chance encounters with songs I love, has solidified it recently. - --- Not all bands are created equal. Any music fan can bore you at length about the back-catalogue, influences, motivation and methods of their favourite artists; baffle you with comparisons and relative valuations, try to persuade you of the unique merits of their heroes. For me, my favourite bands, and the ones I'm incapable of assessing rationally, are four: Radiohead, REM, Mogwai, and Wire. The reasons for each of these are somewhat different. There's no equivalence, and little crossover. Radiohead and REM are the two bands that got me through being confused, and lonely, and adolescent; much of their music I don't, or can't, listen to because of what it reminds me of. Some events, however trivial, still feel too dark. Radiohead commanded their listeners to "immerse your soul in love"; I immersed mine in the work of these two bands, as they made (still make, in fact) emotional sense to me on a level little else did at that time. Mogwai were the first taste of something new, something entirely other; when I heard "Young Team", having bought it on the strength of "Tracy" and some positive reviews, it was unlike anything else I'd ever encountered. It was viscerally, physically shocking; the intensity of "Like Herod" caused me, literally, to recoil off my chair and onto the floor the first time I heard it. That, if anything, was the moment I moved from liking music - though, with hindsight, I was already dependent - into being a fan. Wire are the band I grew into liking, in a way. I'd heard of them; they'd been namedropped by just about every other band I'd really liked at one point or another - from weird electronica to Blur - and in a way I see those bands as training wheels for the real thing, now. It's the sheer, bloody-minded lack of compromise that gets me; music as art, rather than *for* any particular purpose. There's a spartan purity to that approach which chimes with my sense of intrinsic rightness. In addition to that, there's rarely been a band who combine the aesthetic of the music I like with a fiercely intellectual, relentlessly intelligent perspective. Wire deliver in spades. - --- None of these bands are directly comparable; pseudo-objective measurements of worth are probably not only meaningless, but harmful. I'm sure everyone else has their own back-story; their own personal context and hinterland. I don't expect to be agreed with; if someone did, entirely, I have a feeling that they would had to have experienced what I have, and feel exactly as I feel. They would, to all intents and purposes, be me. - --- A mailing-list is a somewhat odd social circumstance; a lot of people with very different personal motivations and inclinations brought together. Wire are a band at the cusp of several different genres: equally accessible to fans of electronica, art-rock, punk/post-punk, (though they wouldn't thank me for saying it, the intellectual end of) indie, and modern experimental music. That there's any unanimity among their fans at all is remarkable. - --- Of course, any mailing list for such a band will be tense; the experimentalists treat the indie-kids with disdain, the punks mutter about compromise of ethics, and some are caught in the crossfire. Particularly with a band such as Wire, all there is scope for is excitement when there is news, and analysis when there isn't; in the current quiet patch, there's little to say that isn't in some way social. This bores the hell out of people who don't agree with a "majority" viewpoint; so we lose the mavericks and the avant-garde, as by their very nature they're in a minority. I don't see what can be done about this. I'm saddened; but that won't stop my feet moving every time I hear REM play "Orange Crush". That's an action which goes from my ears to my toes, via my spine, without passing through my mind - it's not willed, it just happens - and therein lies a difference that isn't one of merit, but of nature, and which would always present an obstacle to understanding. Maybe the middle-ground is silence; maybe we should all just wait for the next PostEverything news, and then our differences wouldn't divide - - really, they wouldn't matter at all. With a band such as Wire, who draw in so many from so wide, with so different personal perspectives, there (fittingly) aren't any easy answers. - - Andrew - -- email: andrew@lexical.org.uk http://www.lexical.org.uk/ Earth Sciences, University of Cambridge http://www.esc.cam.ac.uk/ DJ, CUR1350 - http://www.cur1350.co.uk/ blog: http://www.lexical.org.uk/blog/ "The Random Walk", 10pm Fridays | "... and now I couldn't sleep!" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 11:13:02 -0400 From: Ed Special Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re:Clapham Grand On Thursday, October 16, 2003, at 10:57 AM, RLynn9@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 10/16/03 1:09:16 AM Central Daylight Time, > edspecial@digitalrealm.net writes: > >> For a while, I thought George W. Bush an idiot until I realized his >> extreme intelligence and wit. >> He explained to us that the reason everyone hates America is because >> "they hate our freedom." >> Now I see the supreme genius behind his ploy, shred our constitution, >> remove our civil liberties and continue the legacy of his family's >> obsession with fascism. >> Simple. >> Brilliant. >> Everyone will love us by the time he and his cabal are finished with >> us >> all. >> >> Ed Special > > > well...instead of all the bitching and moaning, let's do something > about > it!...if we feel so strongly about the filthy bastard then it's up to > us to get > rid of him....WE must vote him out of office...WE must persuade enough > people to > vote against him.... > > our only other choices are to wait for an assasination or to move out > of the > country...it's that simple.. > > RL And especially to insure that votes count, without fraud and obstruction and leave a fully verifiable trail. The Democratic party needs to stand up to these pukes, do a little redistricting of their own, punish the Repugnicans involved for their crimes, return more power to the people, etc . . . Ed ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 15:25:12 GMT From: P J Kane Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re:Clapham Grand << WE must vote him out of office...WE must persuade enough people to vote against him.... >> do you think that will matter? i mean, it's not like he even won the last election..... democracy is, apparently, a lie the American Aristocrats tell us working-class schmoes in order to keep us in line.... << our only other choices are to wait for an assasination or to move out of the country...it's that simple.. >> leaving the country won't help -- the reach of the US is awfully long, and who other than a terrorist would emigrate from 'Mericah? and no, i have no friggin' clue what to do..... PJK please don't hate me because i can't type..... - --- All the cool kids are doing it: HTTP://www.EvilSponge.org ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 16:47:39 +0100 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re:Clapham Grand > leaving the country won't help -- the reach of the US is awfully long, and who other than a terrorist would emigrate from 'Mericah? Madonna? Though even she's been dressing the part. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 12:13:00 EDT From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re:Clapham Grand In a message dated 10/16/03 10:43:57 AM Central Daylight Time, keith.astbury10@virgin.net writes: > who other than a terrorist would emigrate from 'Mericah? i would....if i had a friend or two in Australia or the UK to help me get on my feet in a new place.... RL ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 12:13:50 EDT From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re:Clapham Grand In a message dated 10/16/03 10:45:18 AM Central Daylight Time, postlibyan@netzero.com writes: > << WE must vote him out of office...WE must persuade enough people to > vote against him.... >> > > do you think that will matter? i mean, it's not like he even won the last > election..... democracy is, apparently, a lie the American Aristocrats tell > us working-class schmoes in order to keep us in line.... so i guess we are doomed then? RL ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 17:32:16 +0100 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Glam Wirespace > BSP sound like one of those long forgotten mid 80s indie bands that Virgin > would regularly snap up, get them to do a few kids TV shows, get a > favourable review in Record Mirror and a support slot with Then > Jerico........ Ah! Then Jerico. Saw them live as support act a couple of times. And whatever you may think about their records, they were good fun live. Personally I thought they made a couple of decent pop singles and that was about it, but someone I know who has more than a few Wire records in his collection - from PF all the way to Send - thought that their 1st album was excellent. He bumped into former singer Mark a few years back and told him great their first album was which he figured was altogether better than saying that the second one wasn't much cop. > Standing in the road. Think I might have that. On the very wonderful Jam > label, with a big splat of Jam on it! That's the one. Chu-ah. Chukka-chukka-chu-ah. Though the 'ah' wasn't in a Fall way ; ) > Brian Eno's first solo albums too. Roxy's very own BC ? > > >>Though Sparks may have provided the blueprint for a band that keeps > > coming back and re-inventing itself. > Certainly durable, and just sbout the only vaguely credible still-creative > act of the time Haven't heard their last so-called ''difficult' album, but the one before that Balls is probably in my top 10 LP's of the decade so far. Great pop LP. > (unless you count the Dame, and I've still not heard the new > album so the cred remains very vague!) I like it. But it's not gonna change your life! > > >>>The drum machine phase was marvellous. > > > > I still wish they'd cut their first album then.<< > > I suspect it'd have been a struggle over the distance. The Peel session is > stretching it. That drum machine had only about 2 usable settings. Maybe they > should have done a few songs with a Bossanova or Rhumba beat ;-) I'd still have preferred it. > > >>I was just about to suggest the Comsat Angels, and then I read the bit > > about originality ; )<< > > Intelligent and original - fitted perfectly into post-punk. I know they're well-liked here, but I thought they were post-punks Shed Seven (I was just kidding about the Bunnymen). A friend taped some stuff for me and it did nothing for me. It was nothing that hadn't been done before. And better. To me they were little more than an Early Learning Centre Joy Division. I saw them live once - and at the risk of appearing impolite - thought they were shite. > > >>I know where I can get my, er, hands on one if you're interested ; )<< > > Branching out from the usual sheep, then... We call it diversity in these parts ; ) Keith np Horace Andy - feel good...anthology ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 17:48:21 +0100 From: Andrew Walkingshaw Subject: [idealcopy] As offtopic as it gets: listee on TV *** THIS POST HAS NO WIRE CONTENT *** *** IF THIS IS OFFENSIVE, PLEASE ACCEPT MY APOLOGIES *** Dear all, I appear on the next episode of University Challenge. It's on TV on Monday (the 20th), on BBC2, at 8:30pm; the match is Jesus College, Cambridge, against Oriel College, Oxford. I expect to be heckled badly. Flames to the address in the sig... - - Andrew - -- email: andrew@lexical.org.uk http://www.lexical.org.uk/ Earth Sciences, University of Cambridge http://www.esc.cam.ac.uk/ DJ, CUR1350 - http://www.cur1350.co.uk/ blog: http://www.lexical.org.uk/blog/ "The Random Walk", 10pm Fridays | "... and now I couldn't sleep!" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 18:19:14 +0100 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] on the nature of mailing lists, and of wire, and of being a music fan - and killing joke live! > It's noticeable that the list has been particularly quiet recently; > we've lost quite a few subscribers (eg Michael Flaherty, and possibly > Bill Hick) who post a lot of very interesting material. It's obviously up to the individual if they want to remain on list. It did seem a shame that Michael - if indeed he has left - didn't feel the need to say tara or let anyone ask him to re-consider. But that's his choice. > A mailing-list is a somewhat odd social circumstance; (snip) >That there's any unanimity among > their fans at all is remarkable. Yes, personally speaking I find it hard to comprehend that anyone would not like the Four Tet album (or even think it sounds like their first one, PJ!), but there you go ; ) > Maybe the middle-ground is silence; maybe we should all just wait for > the next PostEverything news, and then our differences wouldn't divide > - really, they wouldn't matter at all. Not sure they do anyway, Andrew. But there's fun to be had. And talking of Bill, I reckon he might enjoy the following Guardian review. Seems he wasn't the only one who rated the recent Killing Joke live dates (think itsaid this was of the Leeds gig). As rock's equivalent of chaps who parade up and down high streets with banners reading "The end is nigh", Killing Joke's Jaz Coleman found himself adrift in the 1990s. However, post-9/11 and post-Iraq, Killing Joke's mission could not have been more neatly revitalised if the four horsemen had arrived at Coleman's house. The band's new, eponymous album, full of raging stuff about Uncle Sam, has received the best reviews of their 25-year career, while the tour is attracting crowds as big as any in their 1980s heyday. Coleman has waited for this moment. Eyes staring, face painted white, he looks - and sounds - like a cross between Ozzy Osbourne, the Grim Reaper and a druid. "This is for next year ... and your prime minister," he says forebodingly before Wardance. In the wake of Israel's attack on Syrian land, Total Invasion's warning - "It's conflagration!" - packs a disturbing punch. Unusually for a band of this vintage, the new songs match the old. Guitarist Geordie excels himself by hitting the back of his guitar, while Coleman takes advantage of the student venue to pinpoint the main flaw in the education system: "It's shit." Repeatedly, he fixes on something horrible in the distance - which may just be the mixture of spiky haircuts and bald pates that marks the Killing Joke audience these days. But this is a different Coleman. Now in his 40s, he is letting his raging intensity give way to a more wry, almost Victor Meldrew-ish aghastness. He is one of rock's true thespians, who should really have a crack at King Lear. Here, he is moved at the crowd's response to Asteroid, a cheery number about a ball of fire hitting the earth. With Coleman increasingly emotional, the band dust off Follow the Leaders. Written about Thatcher, the chorus of "Do you believe them?" is witheringly relevant. The only question is how Killing Joke can retain this form. Unless, of course, Tony Blair obliges by invading somewhere else. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 18:29:57 +0100 From: "Andrew Lumbard" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] don't worry bout the government/futureheads Oh well...each to their own etc.etc. Wish I'd made the effort to see them now! Still, Snow Patrol next week. AndyL >> -----Original Message----- >> From: owner-idealcopy@smoe.org [mailto:owner-idealcopy@smoe.org]On >> Behalf Of PaulRabjohn@aol.com >> Sent: 14 October 2003 21:23 >> To: MarkBursa@aol.com; andrew@lumbard.co.uk; idealcopy@smoe.org >> Subject: Re: [idealcopy] don't worry bout the government >> >> >> In a message dated 10/14/03 9:01:02 PM GMT Daylight Time, >> MarkBursa@aol.com >> writes: >> >> > Think XTC, XTC and, er, XTC. Saw them a while ago. Quirky noo >> wave that >> > >sounds absolutely nothing like Wire or the Fall but a lot >> like 2nd album >> > XTC. >> > >Suppose it had to happen. >> > >> >> ///////what a horrible prospect. of all the crappy corporate >> nice new wave >> albums of the era , that was probably the nadir. and somebody is >> basing a career >> on it? probably easier to play than the pop group maybe? >> >> please save me from wacky quirkiness. just trust me , this is >> not the way to >> go :-( p ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 12:36:57 -0700 (PDT) From: Ari Britt Subject: [idealcopy] Re: I'm suprised no one's...... with reference to the current 'conversation'........Ari Monochromatic Man wrote: What about OMD? wnd3 - --- Ari Britt wrote: > ......mentioned OMD in all of this............Ari > The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search ===== /\ /\ /\ { o _ o }  \ _--_ / --Try it now! ) GWS Ltd http://www.fortunecity.com/uproar/mental/111/ ________________________________________________________________________ Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Yahoo! Messenger http://mail.messenger.yahoo.co.uk The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 15:35:13 EDT From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] don't worry bout BSP In a message dated 10/16/03 12:41:41 PM GMT Daylight Time, MarkBursa@aol.com writes: > >Yep. Without the benefit of seeing them live, and on first listen, so far > > >I'd say BSP=Microdisney 2003.<< > > >Which sort of proves the point ATKeith &I were making in the first > >place... > > > >Mark ///////er , sounds a bit like damning with faint praise from tim to me. i mean microdisney hardly set the world alight in their "heyday" whereas BSP seem to be attracting a bit of bigging up in these parts. i think mark got it about right with the comment about the likes of interpol/BSP being too much the sum of a lot of recognisable parts. can't help thinking of oscar wilde's famous dissing of a rival ; "your work is both original and good. however , the good bits are not original...........and the original bits are not good". (i'd say the liars offerred a bit more than those other 2 actually) i'm trying to keep an open mind here . looking forward to "later" so maybe i'll have an epiphany regarding this "scene". or not. mind you , things could be worse. driving thru b'ham yesterday i saw a poster for a coldplay tribute act. called "coolplay". great , huh. p ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 15:36:11 -0500 From: "dan bailey" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] don't worry bout BSP >mind you , things could be worse. driving thru b'ham yesterday i saw a poster >for a coldplay tribute act. called "coolplay". great , huh. p of course, if i were to drive through *my* b'ham (95 miles or so up the road, closest thing alabama has to a genuine city), i'd be more likely to see a poster for a lynyrd skynyrd tribute act. guess it's all a matter of perspective (though mind you "sweet home alabama" is undoubtedly a greater song than coldplay could come up with in a lifetime of trying). dan, apparent redneck beneath a veneer of pseudo-sophistication (or at least a gigantic record collection, most of which i went through last night looking in vain for my stubbornly missing ramones' animal boy lp ... i had *no idea* i owned some of this stuff, like that midway still album) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 16:45:45 EDT From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] don't worry bout BSP In a message dated 10/16/03 3:39:12 PM Central Daylight Time, dpbailey@worldnet.att.net writes: > (though mind you "sweet home alabama" is undoubtedly a greater > song than coldplay could come up with in a lifetime of trying). i'll second that... RL ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 18:38:23 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT: The black man in black Apparently on London MOR radio station Magic FM last week a dj introduced 'I Can See Clearly Now' as by 'the late man in black Johnny Nash'. The spirit of Peter Powell lives on. Joy Davidson ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 19:03:17 EDT From: CHRISWIRE@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] don't worry bout BSP In a message dated 16/10/2003 21:39:12 GMT Daylight Time, dpbailey@worldnet.att.net writes: > though mind you "sweet home alabama" is undoubtedly a greater > song than coldplay could come up with in a lifetime of trying). > First time I have to disagree with you Dan.Awful record & pretty banal band in my opinion.Tragic end to the group & god rest their souls but not my cup of tea. Coldplay I quite like , but they are at the precipice where they could be next years ridiculed band depending on their next album. IMHO they need to lighten up & not be so depressive if that makes any sense. That list of yours though was very diverse & cool.Found myself nodding & mumbling to myself in accord.It's a worry.... Chris NP.Ronnie & Clyde - In Glorious Black & Blue ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 00:29:58 +0100 From: "Tim" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] don't worry bout BSP - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; ; Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2003 8:35 PM Subject: Re: [idealcopy] don't worry bout BSP > In a message dated 10/16/03 12:41:41 PM GMT Daylight Time, MarkBursa@aol.com > writes: > > > >Yep. Without the benefit of seeing them live, and on first listen, so far > > > > >I'd say BSP=Microdisney 2003.<< > > > > >Which sort of proves the point ATKeith &I were making in the first > > >place... > > > > > >Mark > > ///////er , sounds a bit like damning with faint praise from tim to me. i > mean microdisney hardly set the world alight in their "heyday" whereas BSP seem > to be attracting a bit of bigging up in these parts. I didn't compare them to Microdisney, that was someone else. Can hardly slag off the 'Disney being as I'm a big High Llamas fan and all that ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 01:02:51 +0100 From: "Tim" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] [needlessly meta] on the nature of mailing lists, and of wire, and of being a music fan Your starter for ten...... > It's noticeable that the list has been particularly quiet recently; > we've lost quite a few subscribers (eg Michael Flaherty, and possibly > Bill Hick) who post a lot of very interesting material. I suspect Hick is still around, but currently orbiting the darkside of Wirespace with Killing Joke ringing in his ears. As for Michael......if he didn't like the topics on the list he should have spoken up and started a new thread. Nature abhors a vacuum and if no-one else speaks up you can be sure that myself, the Keiths, the Pauls, the Bursa, Mr Lynn, Ari, yourself etc etc etc will fill that vacuum with day-to-day musings about British Sea Power etc. >> > This bores the hell out of people who don't agree with a "majority" > viewpoint; so we lose the mavericks and the avant-garde, as by their > very nature they're in a minority. Then they should speak up! Anyone can post to this list and yet its the same names again and again. We've all got a keyboard. > Maybe the middle-ground is silence; Well if they haven't got anything to say they can't complain if they don't like what gobshites like me have to say! >maybe we should all just wait for > the next PostEverything news, and then our differences wouldn't divide I'm sure I'd find something to disagree with everyone about even then...the typeface used on the website or something. > - really, they wouldn't matter at all. With a band such as Wire, who > draw in so many from so wide, with so different personal perspectives, > there (fittingly) aren't any easy answers. But thats why its such a good list. Its one of the most addictive lists I've been on, you're a good bunch and I like talking to you all! Ah who cares its only f**king IdealCopy innit? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 17:15:15 -0700 (PDT) From: Ari Britt Subject: Re: [idealcopy] don't worry bout BSP RLynn9@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 10/16/03 3:39:12 PM Central Daylight Time, dpbailey@worldnet.att.net writes: > (though mind you "sweet home alabama" is undoubtedly a greater > song than coldplay could come up with in a lifetime of trying). i'll second that... R ..and I'll third it (third it?)huh.Ari The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 17:25:39 -0700 (PDT) From: Ari Britt Subject: [idealcopy] Tim wrote...plus Miles? > - really, they wouldn't matter at all. With a band such as Wire, who > draw in so many from so wide, with so different personal perspectives, > there (fittingly) aren't any easy answers. But thats why its such a good list. Its one of the most addictive lists I've been on, you're a good bunch and I like talking to you all! Ah who cares its only f**king IdealCopy innit? ............................... Actually that's pretty much what I wrote to Miles in an email earlier this week,this has GOT to be the best goddarn list around.Despite the 'displeasure' of a few of you at some of his postings I think even Tim and Robert would agree it would indeed be a great shame if Graeme really has left the list.Graeme? you there? Perhaps Miles would be so kind as to inform those of us that don't know how he came to start this list,when he started it,and how it's changed in direction and content (if at all) since inception.............Miles? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V6 #308 *******************************