From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V6 #304 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Tuesday, October 14 2003 Volume 06 : Number 304 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [idealcopy] don't worry bout the government ["Keith Astbury" ] [idealcopy] Re:Joe M wrote....... [Ari Britt ] Re: [idealcopy] Re:Joe M wrote....... [P J Kane ] [idealcopy] Wire Magazine Articles [=?iso-8859-1?q?Phillip=20Blakeney?= <] Re: [idealcopy] don't worry bout the government [Bunny Smedley ] RE: [idealcopy] don't worry bout the government ["Keith Knight" ] Re: [idealcopy] Bushism [k erickson ] Re: [idealcopy] Re: idealcopy-digest V6 #303 [k erickson ] [idealcopy] Re: ot-clinton [Eardrumbuz@aol.com] [idealcopy] latin antics [PaulRabjohn@aol.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 10:23:37 +0100 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] don't worry bout the government > AndyL > British Sea Power on Jools this Friday though, with free-range to decorate > the studio. According to their website they are looking for a plastic mute > swan. The new statue video is pretty impressive, but I'm not exactly blown away by the single. Is this representative of the album, cos it was one on my list and I might have to scrub it off. > ps Futureheads on in Oxford tonight. Did they crop up on this list? If so > why? Their single 1-2-3 Nul! (Fantastic Plastic) from earlier this year, got the following review in The Guardian... "Modernists in the most respected tradition (think XTC, Wire and possibly The Fall after a nice hot bath) these four tracks show a band in complete control. The future has spoken!" Their follow-up got an excellent review in the NME. Still not heard either myself, mind. K. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 12:21:25 GMT From: P J Kane Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Everybody "Lie and Die in LA" Tonight << Wang Chung >> love this band -- they did some amazing pop! BTW, i would not normally span the list with this, BUT since it was mentioned: i just found their lost classic, the soundtrack to _To Live and Die in LA_ (never saw the film) on vinyl. so i have a CD copy of it for trade or sale... if you need this one, email me off list and we can work it out.... PJK please don't hate me because i can't type..... - --- All the cool kids are doing it: HTTP://www.EvilSponge.org ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 08:46:33 -0700 (PDT) From: joe morgan Subject: [idealcopy] Re: idealcopy-digest V6 #303 > As for why Clinton was such a big fan... The top > man who is part of > society finds that no-one will help him in his hour > of need. It would > be interesting to know if viewing went up after the > Lewinsky affair came > to light. Or perhaps its something to do about a > man standing alone and > then being cast out of the town he's saved - as all > presidents must be > in the end. you know (be warned as i am about to wax political) i keep coming back to bill clinton... am man who worked really hard for these people who threw him to the wolves.... and it just makes me so mad... he becomes castigated for a peccadillo, yet, currently in office we have a traitor... a man who has wasted our resources for personal gain... who at worst has betrayed our intelligence system and at best is obstructing an investigation into the betrayal of our intelligence system... and barely anyone bats an eye. if it weren't for people like michael moore or moveon.org, no one would know! is the consciousness of my nation so base? is tremendous violence and economic ruin so much less horrible than someone being less than perfect in their personal life? > >Did you actually LIKE "The Culling is Coming" ? > > > >- Isn't it all just inconsequential, arhythmic > tuneless noise ? > > i love that album. what i wonder about the cd is > what they did with the lock > groove. i haven't heard it... but i am told it is kind of the odd one of the set... though, as groups from that era go, 23 skidoo is an oddity... ===== http://www.foreignbody.com/bands/diviner "Charm is a way of getting the answer 'yes' without asking a clear question" -Camus __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search http://shopping.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 08:50:07 -0700 (PDT) From: Fergus Kelly Subject: [idealcopy] The Coming Is Culling Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 10:32:34 +0800 From: "Tim ****" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] np 23 skidoo 'culling' cd reissue on Boutique..at last! There's no 4-4 beat if that's what you mean? It was one of my favourites from '82 & still is.. Tim ))) Yeah, one of my favourites from that year too, along with MZUI. Fucking great it is, especially the second side with the oil drums/gas bottles gamelan style percussion, which is far from arhythmic... Fergus "We were walking to excorsize the shame of New Labour's Millenium Dome. A wide berth around the tent on Bugsby's Marshes. New Labour was old Tory with better haircuts, classier denials. The elasticated grin in place of the lead filled handbag. Thatcher cutting the ribbon was as remote as Boudicea." Iain Sinclair : London Orbital __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search http://shopping.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 09:55:11 -0700 (PDT) From: Ari Britt Subject: [idealcopy] Joe M wrote....... you know (be warned as i am about to wax political) i keep coming back to bill clinton... am man who worked really hard for these people who threw him to the wolves.... and it just makes me so mad... he becomes castigated for a peccadillo, yet, currently in office we have a traitor... a man who has wasted our resources for personal gain... who at worst has betrayed our intelligence system and at best is obstructing an investigation into the betrayal of our intelligence system... and barely anyone bats an eye. if it weren't for people like michael moore or moveon.org, no one would know! is the consciousness of my nation so base? is tremendous violence and economic ruin so much less horrible than someone being less than perfect in their personal life? My thoughts EXACTLY Joe,which is why I'll be joining the Democrats this year to try and help them defeat the current madman at the helm.nearly everyone I know hates the mother pucker,he has ruined the economy,given his rich asshole friends a tax break we can ill afford,squandered all the good that B.C did,and he's arogant to boot. Don't know if you know the site www.whatreallyhappened.com ? but it's worth checking out even though they occasionally post anti semetic news reports from other parts of the world (and no prizes for guessing where from) Ari. The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 11:35:05 -0700 (PDT) From: Ari Britt Subject: [idealcopy] Re:Joe M wrote....... you're welcome Billy,you can 'go back' and view their take on 9/11 if you can be bothered,and they ask some very interesting questions. e.g/for one building to collapse IN IT'S OWN FOOTPRINT is unusual,for TWO buildings to collapse in their own footprints is remarkable,but for THREE buildings to collapse in their own footprints when the third WASN'T EVEN HIT is pfucking incredible. Also,WHY was the airforce told to STAND DOWN when it was OBVIOUS we were under attack,why did our great leader continue reading pfucking stories to the children at the school he was at even after he was informed of the facts?SO many unanswered questions,so few media asking them. If Bill were in power they'd have been stamping all over him,this bastard can do what he wants and no-one,except a few brave souls,says a word. conspiracy?nah,he wouldn't dream of such a thing.......... would he?Ari Monochromatic Man wrote: Ari, Thanks. > www.whatreallyhappened.com ? > but it's worth checking out even though they > occasionally post anti semetic news reports from > other parts of the world (and no prizes for guessing > where from) Ari. > The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search ===== /\ /\ /\ { o _ o }  \ _--_ / --Try it now! ) GWS Ltd http://www.fortunecity.com/uproar/mental/111/ ________________________________________________________________________ Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Yahoo! Messenger http://mail.messenger.yahoo.co.uk The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 18:50:50 GMT From: P J Kane Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re:Joe M wrote....... << conspiracy?nah,he wouldn't dream of such a thing.......... >> you know, i just don't believe conspiracy theories. why? based on what i know of human nature, they all go the way of Iran-Contra. that is to say -- people are too f*cking stupid to pull of anything like that. if, as you say, this were a conspiracy, some Air Force grunt would have been making noise (to impress the chicks, really...) and the whole thing would get out. of course, it took a goodly while for people to screw up Iran-Contra, so perhaps in a few years or so we will see the same thing here. however, i have a few specific comments: << one building to collapse IN IT'S OWN FOOTPRINT is unusual >> really? isn't that the very concept of demolition? whenever they knock over a big building, that is _exactly_ what happens. at least, when i saw that Discover "Modern Marvels" episode on high-rise demolition, that's what they said. and if you are calling The Discovery Channel a bunch of liars, well then, sir, i am going to half you to step outside to deal with this through fisticuffs! << why did our great leader continue reading pfucking stories to the children at the school he was at even after he was informed of the facts >> well, i don't really like The Shrub, and i am highly annoyed at the way he got into that position, but i can completely understand his actions. in one word, shock. sure, on the outside he sat there calmly while a little girl read from a book he held, but inside he might've been going "oh sh*t oh sh*t oh sh*t oh sh*t -- what am i going to do?" some people, myself included, are slow thinkers, and need a moment (or two) to "zone out" before action can be taken. so i understand Bush's seeming lack of activity. on the other hand, there are those who say that Cheney is really running the country and that Dubya is just his mouthpiece. in which case, Dubya sat there because his "boss" hadn't yet told him to do anything. i think it's telling that Cheney was the one hidden and protected..... at any rate, Dubya's lack of activity is in no way evidence that he "knew". please.... if he had planned the damend thing, don't you think he would have re-hearsed some "panic" or "despair" for the cameras? anyway, as to your Q re: the Air Force: i dunno. that is a puzzler. maybe you are right, and in 15 years the survivors pf this Administration will be dragged before congress to explain their actions. maybe. i will withhold judgement until then. PJK please don't hate me because i can't type..... - --- All the cool kids are doing it: HTTP://www.EvilSponge.org ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 06:57:36 +1000 (EST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Phillip=20Blakeney?= Subject: [idealcopy] Wire Magazine Articles G'day from Oz Sorry to raise Wire on the Wire list :-) I am trying to put together a list of Wire articles in major magazines, (You know- NME, Melody Maker, Rolling Stone etc etc). I would appreciate if anyone with such material tells us which issue numbers. This is so I can keep watch in the second hand stores. Thanks Phillip - --------------------------------- Yahoo! Search - - Looking for more? Try the new Yahoo! Search ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 22:03:11 +0100 From: Bunny Smedley Subject: Re: [idealcopy] don't worry bout the government > Btw. What did you think? Afraid we may have been suckers for it, and were > totally blown away. Best gig in quite sometime. In fact....ooh...since BSP 3 > days before. You'll have missed HOTS on Top of the Tops then? > British Sea Power on Jools this Friday though, with free-range to decorate > the studio. According to their website they are looking for a plastic mute > swan. I saw BSP (Dublin) one day before HOTS (ULU) - BSP won by a large margin. I may have been quite sleepy for HOTS, and indeed failed to notice the Mad World cover. Their videos and cartoons were nice though. Do try to make BSP at ULU next Monday - the BSP Forum contingent are planning pre-gig drinks - any IdealCopiers planning to be in attendance should email me or check the BSP Forum for details. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 14:45:15 -0700 (PDT) From: Ari Britt Subject: [idealcopy] Bushism << one building to collapse IN IT'S OWN FOOTPRINT is unusual >> >really? isn't that the very concept of demolition? whenever they knock over a big building, that is _exactly_ what happens. at least, when i saw that Discover "Modern Marvels" episode on high-rise demolition, that's what they said. and if you are calling The Discovery Channel a bunch of liars, well then, sir, i am going to half you to step outside to deal with this through fisticuffs!< ...................................................... The discovery channel were no doubt correct,however you failed to mention that,in order to bring a building of that magnitude down it takes demolition experts many weeks pondering over plans of the building to decide where to place the explosives to bring it down 'just so',I also failed to mention that Fox,THE right wing news media,reported just moments before the first tower collapsed,that the N.Y fire dept. had radio'd in that they 'had the fire under control'............and that aviation fuel does NOT burn hot enough to melt steel,,,,,,,as was reported.Ari The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 22:45:54 +0100 From: "Keith Knight" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] don't worry bout the government I thought they were pretty good but wasn't as blown away as when we saw them supporting the Spree a few months back. The sound was muddy from where I was and last time it was the noise attack that bowled me over, which didn't happen this time. But they are very impressive for a new group - so much more confident and accomplished than most at this stage of the proceedings. I'd happily see them again although I doubt that it will be long before they spiral up above my venue range. The singer (the Macca lookalike) was interestingly angry - chucking his guitar at the roadie for not being properly tuned and then finishing by throwing it into the audience where it only avoided me and a letter from my lawyer by the bloke in front catching it. Is this the first sign of a rock tantrum temperament? Another the Keith - -----Original Message----- From: owner-idealcopy@smoe.org [mailto:owner-idealcopy@smoe.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Lumbard Sent: 13 October 2003 08:07 To: idealcopy@smoe.org Subject: RE: [idealcopy] don't worry bout the government Another the Keith mentoined; >> Hope of the States covered a Tears for Fears song in their gig at ULU >> last night (don't know which song, .... Solo acoustic version of Mad World. Btw. What did you think? Afraid we may have been suckers for it, and were totally blown away. Best gig in quite sometime. In fact....ooh...since BSP 3 days before. You'll have missed HOTS on Top of the Tops then? British Sea Power on Jools this Friday though, with free-range to decorate the studio. According to their website they are looking for a plastic mute swan. AndyL ps Futureheads on in Oxford tonight. Did they crop up on this list? If so why? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 22:48:24 +0100 From: "Keith Knight" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] don't worry bout the government I've heard the Futureheads single 1-2-3- Nul, and it don't sound like Wire to me. Don't write BSP off yet Keith - watch them on Later at least. They're now being supported by Jeffrey Lewis at ULU next week - Huzzah! Another the Keith - -----Original Message----- From: owner-idealcopy@smoe.org [mailto:owner-idealcopy@smoe.org] On Behalf Of Keith Astbury Sent: 13 October 2003 10:24 To: Andrew Lumbard; idealcopy@smoe.org Subject: Re: [idealcopy] don't worry bout the government > AndyL > British Sea Power on Jools this Friday though, with free-range to decorate > the studio. According to their website they are looking for a plastic mute > swan. The new statue video is pretty impressive, but I'm not exactly blown away by the single. Is this representative of the album, cos it was one on my list and I might have to scrub it off. > ps Futureheads on in Oxford tonight. Did they crop up on this list? If so > why? Their single 1-2-3 Nul! (Fantastic Plastic) from earlier this year, got the following review in The Guardian... "Modernists in the most respected tradition (think XTC, Wire and possibly The Fall after a nice hot bath) these four tracks show a band in complete control. The future has spoken!" Their follow-up got an excellent review in the NME. Still not heard either myself, mind. K. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 22:58:37 +0100 From: "Keith Knight" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] Re: idealcopy-digest V6 #303 I was interested in a review of a couple of books about US politics which I read at the weekend in the Guardian, one by Paul Krugman and one by Joseph Stiglitz, both US ecomomists. Check out this summary from the review by Will Hutton: 'Krugman states quite baldly a truth from which many still shrink: today's conservatives are radical revolutionaries who do not accept the legitimacy of America's current political system and aim to subvert it. Their goals are the establishment of an American military imperium abroad, under American rather than international law, and to minimise the responsibilities of the rich and corporate America to the common weal at home. This is so breathtaking, says Krugman, that to say it risks being condemned as alarmist. Indeed, quoting Henry Kissinger, he argues it is one of the characteristics of revolutionary power that it draws just this response; it is those who "counsel adaptation to circumstances who are considered balanced and sane". Consensual mainstream opinion cannot come to terms with the radicalism of the revolutionaries - it is too far outside its ambit. It seems delusional, almost hysterical, to acknowledge what is really happening.' The full review is here: http://books.guardian.co.uk/reviews/politicsphilosophyandsociety/0,6121, 1060406,00.html Another the Keith - -----Original Message----- From: owner-idealcopy@smoe.org [mailto:owner-idealcopy@smoe.org] On Behalf Of joe morgan currently in office we have a traitor... a man who has wasted our resources for personal gain... who at worst has betrayed our intelligence system and at best is obstructing an investigation into the betrayal of our intelligence system... and barely anyone bats an eye. if it weren't for people like michael moore or moveon.org, no one would know! is the consciousness of my nation so base? is tremendous violence and economic ruin so much less horrible than someone being less than perfect in their personal life? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 15:33:19 -0700 From: Paul Pietromonaco Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Bushism >and that aviation fuel does NOT burn hot enough to melt steel, No, but speaking as an ex-Boeing airplane designer, a fully loaded 757 does. (^_^) There's an excellent documentary from the History Channel that explains why the towers fell - no conspiracy involved, just a fundamental design flaw. I have it on DVD - e-mail me off-list if you're interested in the title. (I'm at work, or I'd post it.) Cheers, Paul ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 20:00:06 -0400 From: k erickson Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Bushism On Monday, Oct 13, 2003, at 18:33 America/Detroit, Paul Pietromonaco wrote: >> and that aviation fuel does NOT burn hot enough to melt steel, > > No, but speaking as an ex-Boeing airplane designer, a fully loaded 757 > does. (^_^) > > There's an excellent documentary from the History Channel that explains > why the towers fell - no conspiracy involved, just a fundamental design > flaw. oh, someone has explained it....and no less an authority than the Hitler Channel. what _were_ we worried about!? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 20:13:13 -0400 From: k erickson Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: idealcopy-digest V6 #303 On Monday, Oct 13, 2003, at 11:46 America/Detroit, joe morgan wrote: > > you know (be warned as i am about to wax political) i > keep coming back to bill clinton... am man who worked > really hard for these people who threw him to the > wolves.... and it just makes me so mad... he becomes > castigated for a peccadillo, whom did he work so hard for? his cronies (rather than Bush's)? hollywood? Kosovars? i don't see it. there was so much more to castigate him for, but Monica-gate seems to have obscured all that. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 00:52:35 +0000 From: "Jason Rogers" Subject: [idealcopy] R.E.M. Atlanta show A good time was had at the R.E.M. show here a couple of nights ago. Just in case anyone is wondering if the band still plays the old songs at their shows, here's the setlist: Finest Worksong Begin The Begin So Fast So Numb Drive Animal Fall On Me You Are The Everything Bad Day The One I Love Electrolite E-Bow The Letter (with Pete Yorn) (Don't Go Back To) Rockville Find The River Losing My Religion At My Most Beautiful She Just Wants To Be Walk Unafraid Man On The Moon Encore: Life And How To Live It Nightswimming Final Straw Gardening At Night Wolves, Lower Sitting Still Radio Free Europe Permanent Vacation Imitation Of Life It's The End Of The World As We Know It (And I Feel Fine) Quite possibly the best encore that I've seen at a concert (along with a certain band that played "Advantage In Height", "Reuters", and "Pink Flag" last year). I've seen R.E.M. five times in concert now, but this weekend's show was the first time that I had heard them play "Radio Free Europe" and "Sitting Still". Also, "Life And How To Live It", which has always been a candidate for my favorite song by the band. Yeah, these guys still know how to put on a great show. I was underwhelmed by the opening set from Pete Yorn, but R.E.M. made up for it with their show. Jason Now Playing: The Fall - "Hit The North Part 1" _________________________________________________________________ Fretting that your Hotmail account may expire because you forgot to sign in enough? Get Hotmail Extra Storage today! http://join.msn.com/?PAGE=features/es ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 10:02:47 +0800 From: "Tim ****" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Bushism Conspriacy Theory Alert Just to add, wasn't the Whitehouse hit by a missile Not a plane as suggested, as the Crash Site is not big enough an area for it to be the plane? Paranoia means having all the facts - Burroughs np The adverts - Crossing.. cd - ----Original Message Follows---- From: Paul Pietromonaco To: idealcopy@smoe.org Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Bushism Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 15:33:19 -0700 >and that aviation fuel does NOT burn hot enough to melt steel, No, but speaking as an ex-Boeing airplane designer, a fully loaded 757 does. (^_^) There's an excellent documentary from the History Channel that explains why the towers fell - no conspiracy involved, just a fundamental design flaw. I have it on DVD - e-mail me off-list if you're interested in the title. (I'm at work, or I'd post it.) Cheers, Paul _________________________________________________________________ Chat via SMS. Simply send 'CHAT' to 1889918. More info at http://ninemsn.com.au/mobilemania/MoChat.asp?blipid=6800 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 01:46:59 EDT From: Eardrumbuz@aol.com Subject: [idealcopy] Re: ot-clinton In a message dated 10/13/03 8:16:01 PM, saintgermain@earthlink.net writes: > >whom did he work so hard for? his cronies (rather than Bush's)? >hollywood? Kosovars? i don't see it. turning a 290 billion dollar deficit into a 124 billion dollar surplus looked good to most americans. of course dubya has brought it right back to where daddy and ron left it. - -paul c.d. www.mp3.com/winteracademy ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 03:46:01 -0400 From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: [idealcopy] latin antics so..........no reports on the spanish/italian tour? wonder how it went..... funny how nobody from that part of the world is on a list of 200-odd (odd?) wire fans. yet now they must have played more gigs in spain and italy than the UK since 2000. clearly there must be a fanbase , but every time i'm in italy i can't see anything on the tv or radio other than crappy cheesy house music. any underground scene seems incredibly well hidden , but i guess it must exist. would have loved to have gone , but a mix of family , work , no decent flights killed it for me. xmas gigs maybe now? p ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V6 #304 *******************************