From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V6 #267 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Wednesday, September 10 2003 Volume 06 : Number 267 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [idealcopy] SEEING RED ["Bill Hick" ] Re: [idealcopy] SEEING RED [Andrew Walkingshaw ] Re: [idealcopy] SEEING RED [RLynn9@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] SEEING RED ["Keith Astbury" ] Re: [idealcopy] SEEING RED ["John Roberts" ] Re: [idealcopy] SEEING RED [RLynn9@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] SEEING RED ["DAN L ROSE" ] RE: [idealcopy] SEEING RED ["Keith Knight" ] Re: [idealcopy] SEEING RED [PaulRabjohn@aol.com] RE: [idealcopy] SEEING RED ["Keith Knight" ] Re: [idealcopy] SEEING RED [RLynn9@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] SEEING RED [Ed Special ] Re: [idealcopy] SEEING RED [RLynn9@aol.com] [idealcopy] Rbert wrote... [Ari Britt ] [idealcopy] Re: Seeing Red [voyteck@webtv.net] Re: [idealcopy] SEEING RED [Bo Krogsgaard ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2003 12:15:01 +0000 From: "Bill Hick" Subject: [idealcopy] SEEING RED >>>>well after graham's great PR job i went and downloaded a few tracks off >>>>this new KJ album. HA! Funny you should mention it! AND THE THIRD ANGEL SOUNDED! >>>first one i got was "asteroid" BURNING AS IT WERE A LAMP! 5 SECONDS 'TIL IT HITS US! MASSIVE ONSLAUGHT!!! >>>and i must say my immediate thought was that it sounds very wire-like. Sounds like Killing Joke doing a much harder attack in the vein of Whiteout from Pandemonium to me. Killing Joke are more similar to WIRE in many respects than any other band I've heard, but there are very different often seemingly opposing contrasts. W intellect/ KJ intuition W technology / KJ savage brutalism The road ahead looks quite uncertain... Not enough water for one third of the world. >>>it has the same kind of "compressed" sound as send , very heavy on trebly powerful guitars but not very bassy. Not very bassy? Is yr stereo a piece of crap perchance? I call that massively addictive descending bass line of the new single 'Seeing Red' (ROCK PERFECTION) monstrous thunder! How dare you judge this album's production on the evidence of puny MP3 files! New single is released next week, Your mission is to locate the nearest chart return shop and buy a copy. The last single reached the kiddypops charts and this one has Geordie's greatest one note riff, and a lyric from Jaz that's just the thing to get right up the noses of those who deserve it. They're dropping bombs again And they're doing it in your name Kiss the arse of Uncle Sam Oh to be an Englishman Does anyone have an MP3 of Zennon, which anooyingly was only released on DVD? >>>presumably its all pro-tooled up , though i'm not claiming to be an >>>expert on these things :-) I think Jaz and Geordie did the keyboards, guitars and vocals first then bass lines were played by Youth, Raven and Geordie. Perhaps they had some drums recorded and then erased them with Grohl's hardcore floor destroyers. This is the Joke at their most TRIBAL since FIRE DANCES. >>>and the lyric goes "asteroid......out of the void" coming in from the void >>>which is rather like "comet"........has somebody sent jazz a copy of RnB recently???? Except opposite really. Listen again. Whilst Wire sing about the Comet from personal perspective, Jaz is on the global armageddon trip that is required to rid us of death sucking lap-poodle Tory B. Liars and their tragic repressive homogeneity mentality. TEAR UP YOUR I.D. CARDS! >>>the other few tracks i got were not so much in this vein , more the >>>standard industrial-meets-KJ they've touted recently. I think the second album which so influenced many 'industrial' bands is what's been informing them actually. Certainly they've recently played nearly all the best tracks from this new album plus some great selections from the early days (Requiem, Fall of Because, Pssyche, Wardance, Tension, Change, The Wait, Frenzy) which all fit in very well with the new material. >>>>its all ok but i can't see they've moved on to anything particularly interesting. And yet you waste your time with weak garbage like E*ast*ca? >>>>a band i used to love , but i still reckon there's nothing essential post-youth (1st time around) Have you heard it all then? What do you reckon to 'Another Cult Goes Down'? I call it the GREATEST DUB TRACK EVER RECORDED! What about Exorcism? THE GREATEST METAL TRACK EVER RECORDED! >>>and they had said most of it on the first album. Maybe you already said most of this in several previous emails? >>>The type of Killing Joke I *really* like is the 1st LP, Money Is Not Our >>>God, the opening 3 tracks of Pandemonium, etc. Should I get it? If you like the first album & Extremities then you need to hear the new one. Make up your own mind. Of course Jaz is not the 'blimmin' messiah.' His message has always been to follow ourselves as leaders and take no shit from false authority. He's the total opposite of a messiah. If you haven't worked that out yet then kindly quit blabbermouthin' because you haven't bothered to look any further than the hype media's vacuous misrepresentation of his ideas. Bursa M, Lumpen Robinson with his Gothic Cocteau Divisions and Eighties Lynn would all be well advised that people who slag or cross the Joke often have very nasty things happen to them. Remember Kurt Cobain? STRENGTH AND BEAUTY DESTINED TO DECAY El*sti*a should be thankful they only copped it from WIRE and the Stranglers. SO CUT THE ROSE IN FULL BLOOM EXIT! _________________________________________________________________ Use MSN Messenger to send music and pics to your friends http://www.msn.co.uk/messenger ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 13:36:45 +0100 From: Andrew Walkingshaw Subject: Re: [idealcopy] SEEING RED On Tue, Sep 09, 2003 at 12:15:01PM +0000, Bill Hick wrote: > New single is released next week, Your mission is to locate the nearest > chart return shop and buy a copy. The last single reached the kiddypops > charts and this one has Geordie's greatest one note riff, and a lyric from > Jaz that's just the thing to get right up the noses of those who deserve it. I give up; I'm going to have to go buy this record, because if it's inspiring this level of devotion it must have something going for it (though I thought the first single was distinctly average). > TEAR UP YOUR I.D. CARDS! National ID cards are a serious threat to civil liberties. Be wary... - - Andrew (np; Pixies - "Trompe le Monde", which is nowhere near as bad as it has been claimed - and on the apocalyptic lyric tip, "I smell smoke / that comes from a gun / named extinction!") - -- email: andrew@lexical.org.uk http://www.lexical.org.uk/ Earth Sciences, University of Cambridge http://www.esc.cam.ac.uk/ DJ, CUR1350 - http://www.cur1350.co.uk/ blog: http://www.lexical.org.uk/blog/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 08:45:18 EDT From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] SEEING RED > Bursa M, Lumpen Robinson with his Gothic Cocteau Divisions and Eighties > Lynn >> Eighties Lynn??? surely you have me mixed up with someone else on the list....3/4 (if not more) of my music listening is from the here and now....and i hope you aren't referring to the song "eighties" by KJ, because THAT is my least favorite KJ song.. > would all be well advised that people who slag or cross the Joke often have > > very nasty things happen to them. Remember Kurt Cobain?>>>>> really? if i knew it were that easy i would have started long ago....ya see, i've always had a deathwish but have never found an unmessy way to do it....so if i slag KJ will i just cease to be or will i feel the urge to grab a shotgun and blow my head off? RL NP - (NOW PLEASE PAY ATTENTION) THIGHPAULSANDRA - "DOUBLE VULGAR" ...no, this is NOT 80's...as you are well aware it just came out..and it's very good.... NEXT UP: NURSE WITH WOUND "SHE AND ME FALL TOGETHER IN FREE DEATH" also new....even if it is a throwback somewhat to krautrock OVER AND OUT!!! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 05:48:28 -0700 (PDT) From: Fergus Kelly Subject: [idealcopy] Allies in exile Wire Italian and Spanish dates confirmed on PE a few days ago: http://www.posteverything.com/news/article.php?id=3618 Over and out Fergus Cool in the north and very warm in the south __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 09:59:55 EDT From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] SEEING RED In a message dated 9/9/03 7:16:01 AM Central Daylight Time, umur_ot@hotmail.com writes: > Eighties Lynn besides, were the 80's REALLY all that bad??? afterall, the 80's did spawn Killing Joke.. RL ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 15:28:18 +0100 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] SEEING RED > What about Exorcism? > > THE GREATEST METAL TRACK EVER RECORDED! I know this will worry Bill, but I'm almost inclined to agree. Ferocious track. Keith np main - deliquesence ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2003 14:34:03 +0000 From: "John Roberts" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] SEEING RED Metal? What next? Manowar? Tygers of Pan Tang? Budgie? John http://www.surf.to/ambition >From: "Keith Astbury" >To: "Bill Hick" , >Subject: Re: [idealcopy] SEEING RED >Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 15:28:18 +0100 > > > What about Exorcism? > > > > THE GREATEST METAL TRACK EVER RECORDED! > >I know this will worry Bill, but I'm almost inclined to agree. > >Ferocious track. > >Keith > >np main - deliquesence _________________________________________________________________ It's fast, it's easy and it's free. Get MSN Messenger today! http://www.msn.co.uk/messenger ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2003 11:36:02 -0400 From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] SEEING RED > Killing Joke are more similar to WIRE in many respects than any other band > I've heard, but there are very different often seemingly opposing contrasts. > > W intellect/ KJ intuition > > W technology / KJ savage brutalism /////you know first time around the band i always thought KJ were an "instinctive version" of was the gang of four. the guys living in a squat as opposed to the guys with politics degrees..... > > > >>>it has the same kind of "compressed" > sound as send , very heavy on trebly powerful guitars but not very bassy. > > Not very bassy? Is yr stereo a piece of crap perchance? > I call that massively addictive descending bass line of the new single > 'Seeing Red' (ROCK PERFECTION) monstrous thunder! How dare you judge this > album's production on the evidence of puny MP3 files! /////i was talking about "asteroid" rather than the whole album. and my stereo is pretty good now you ask........ > > Kiss the arse of Uncle Sam > Oh to be an Englishman ////the local branch of sanity's gonna love that........ > > Does anyone have an MP3 of Zennon, which anooyingly was only released on > DVD? /////soulseek has loads of KJ , they've probably got it.... > > >>>which is rather > like "comet"........has somebody sent jazz a copy of RnB recently???? > > Except opposite really. > Listen again. > Whilst Wire sing about the Comet from personal perspective, Jaz is on the > global armageddon trip that is required to rid us of death sucking > lap-poodle Tory B. Liars and their tragic repressive homogeneity mentality. ////i'm talking bout the feel of it , not the precise lyrical meaning. i thought it sounded....."influenced"..... > > TEAR UP YOUR I.D. CARDS! ////absolutely. when i get one , that is.......... > > I think the second album which so influenced many 'industrial' bands is > what's been informing them actually. Certainly they've recently played > nearly all the best tracks from this new album plus some great selections > from the early days (Requiem, Fall of Because, Pssyche, Wardance, Tension, > Change, The Wait, Frenzy) which all fit in very well with the new material. /////look forward to hearing some live stuff. by the mid-80's i thought they were sleepwalking through some of those oldies so maybe the break did them good? > > >>>>its all ok but i can't see > they've moved on to anything particularly interesting. > > And yet you waste your time with weak garbage like E*ast*ca? //////havn't played any elastica in ages ; i thought they were one of the better britpop acts (not exactly stiff competition.....) but i was hardly in the fanclub > > >>>>a band i used to love , but i > still reckon there's nothing essential post-youth (1st time around) > > Have you heard it all then? > > What do you reckon to 'Another Cult Goes Down'? > > I call it the GREATEST DUB TRACK EVER RECORDED! > > What about Exorcism? > > THE GREATEST METAL TRACK EVER RECORDED! /////i'll re-visit. of course i havn't heard every last b-side but i've heard all the albums > >>>and they > had said most of it on the first album. > > Maybe you already said most of this in several previous emails? /////but not for a long long time , i figured i better recap my position for anyone joining this intercourse afresh. apologies if some had heard it before but i don't imagine many would remember. glad you did :-) for anyone who likes early KJ , try red beat and ski patrol (the other 2 bands on malicious damage). forgotten now , but some really good singles. was that damage manual album any good? sounded interesting but they don't get mentioned much now.....p ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 12:31:51 EDT From: CHRISWIRE@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] SEEING RED In a message dated 09/09/2003 15:35:20 GMT Daylight Time, johnroberts_stats@hotmail.com writes: > Budgie? > > John > Oi ! You leave Budgie alone.Part of my youth that band.true they were Welsh.... duck down from Astbury missile Chris ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 18:32:36 +0100 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] SEEING RED > Oi ! > You leave Budgie alone.Part of my youth that band.true they were Welsh.... > duck down from Astbury missile > Chris I liked them less than I like Catherine Zeta Jones! (though whisper it quietly, I must confess to being a Man fan!) Actually after Saturdays results, I am now in self-denial about my 'Welshness' ; ) Keith ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 13:33:12 EDT From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] SEEING RED In a message dated 9/9/03 12:29:36 PM Central Daylight Time, keith.astbury10@virgin.net writes: > I liked them less than I like Catherine Zeta Jones! i still don't get it...what DON'T you see in her? talented and HOT RL ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2003 13:44:47 -0500 From: "DAN L ROSE" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] SEEING RED Does the below mean that Cobain thought ill of KJ? I'd think Kurt had more than a few KJ albums in his collection........... would all be well advised that people who slag or cross the Joke often > have > > very nasty things happen to them. Remember Kurt Cobain?>>>>> - -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by the CSU Email Gateway, and is believed to be clean. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 19:28:11 +0100 From: "Keith Knight" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] SEEING RED Many are called but few get up. Not only a reference to the Wales performance but also the only Man song I can recall. A friend way back when bought Man's 'Live at the Padget Rooms, Penarth' which remains one of my favourite album names ever and is probably worth a fortune now. Another the Keith - -----Original Message----- From: owner-idealcopy@smoe.org [mailto:owner-idealcopy@smoe.org] On Behalf Of Keith Astbury (though whisper it quietly, I must confess to being a Man fan!) Actually after Saturdays results, I am now in self-denial about my 'Welshness' ; ) Keith ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 15:23:08 EDT From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] SEEING RED In a message dated 9/9/03 7:28:59 PM GMT Daylight Time, steeleknight@lineone.net writes: > A friend way back when bought Man's 'Live at the Padget Rooms, Penarth' > which remains one of my favourite album names ever and is probably worth > a fortune now. > > ///////right up there with "robert rental and the normal live at west runton pavilion"...... ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 20:23:47 +0100 From: "Keith Knight" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] SEEING RED Bloody wonderful album I've always thought - Bossanova is their weak link to my mind. I love the fannish science fiction nature of much of it especially Bird Dream of Olympus Mons - "sun shines in the rusty morning skyline of the Olympus Mons". Marvellous stuff. Another the Keith - -----Original Message----- From: owner-idealcopy@smoe.org [mailto:owner-idealcopy@smoe.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Walkingshaw - Andrew (np; Pixies - "Trompe le Monde", which is nowhere near as bad as it has been claimed - and on the apocalyptic lyric tip, "I smell smoke / that comes from a gun / named extinction!") ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 16:44:45 EDT From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] SEEING RED In a message dated 9/9/03 12:45:41 PM Central Daylight Time, ROSE_DAN@colstate.edu writes: > Does the below mean that Cobain thought ill of KJ? I'd think Kurt > had more than a few KJ albums in his collection........... yes..KJ was in the process of suing Cobain for stealing the riff from "Eighties" and using it for "Come As You Are".....Jaz dropped the suit after Cobain's suicide... RL ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 16:33:26 -0400 From: Ed Special Subject: Re: [idealcopy] SEEING RED On Tuesday, September 9, 2003, at 09:59 AM, RLynn9@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 9/9/03 7:16:01 AM Central Daylight Time, > umur_ot@hotmail.com writes: > >> Eighties Lynn > > > besides, were the 80's REALLY all that bad??? afterall, the 80's did > spawn > Killing Joke.. > > RL also spawned Reagan/Bush, full blown nuclear weapons buildup, multiple "low intensity conflicts", AIDS and ABBA. I'm glad the 80's lasted only a year. Ed ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 17:55:32 EDT From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] SEEING RED In a message dated 9/9/03 4:50:17 PM Central Daylight Time, edspecial@digitalrealm.net writes: > >besides, were the 80's REALLY all that bad??? afterall, the 80's did > >spawn > >Killing Joke.. > > > >RL > > > also spawned Reagan/Bush, full blown nuclear weapons buildup, multiple > "low intensity conflicts", AIDS and ABBA. I'm glad the 80's lasted only > a year. > > Ed > > absolutely nothing wrong with ABBA...one the best pop acts of all time...couldn't you pick a better target?? oh, and i don't see a full blown nuclear weapons buildup as a bad thing....too bad they weren't used.. RL p.s. and yes, i do mean that ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 15:03:22 -0700 (PDT) From: Ari Britt Subject: [idealcopy] Rbert wrote... oh, and i don't see a full blown nuclear weapons buildup as a bad thing....too bad they weren't used.. RL p.s. and yes, i do mean that Ya GOTTA be joking here Robert,why would you wish such a thing on anyone? or is this just a 'Killing' joke.........Ari Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 18:14:48 -0500 (CDT) From: voyteck@webtv.net Subject: [idealcopy] Re: Seeing Red Bill Hick wrote; "The type of Killing Joke I *really* like is the 1st LP, Money Is Not Our God, the opening 3 tracks of Pandemonium, etc. Should I get it? If you like the first album & Extremities then you need to hear the new one. Make up your own mind. Of course Jaz is not the 'blimmin' messiah.' His message has always been to follow ourselves as leaders and take no shit from false authority. He's the total opposite of a messiah." So, a take on this could be that it's not what you hear that makes this noteworthy, but what you don't?! SO CUT THE ROSE IN FULL BLOOM EXIT! Agreed, seeds of thought! voyteck ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 01:32:36 +0200 (CEST) From: Bo Krogsgaard Subject: Re: [idealcopy] SEEING RED On Tue, 9 Sep 2003, Bill Hick wrote: > New single is released next week, Your mission is to locate the nearest > chart return shop and buy a copy. The last single reached the kiddypops > charts and this one has Geordie's greatest one note riff, and a lyric from > Jaz that's just the thing to get right up the noses of those who deserve it. Eh, forget about that, the remixes are horrible! Get the album instead. Seeing Red is really great, but the album is surely better than those utterly wank Jagz Kooner remixes (or whatever his name is, his fingers should be broken with a pair of blunt pliers for those remixes). > Does anyone have an MP3 of Zennon, which anooyingly was only released on > DVD? It used to be on the "official" web site. It is on the Japanese release of the album too, which was out a week or two ago. > What do you reckon to 'Another Cult Goes Down'? > I call it the GREATEST DUB TRACK EVER RECORDED! Audio Active - Happy Shopper. In Killing Joke terms, Turn To Red was still way better. b ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V6 #267 *******************************