From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V6 #258 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Monday, September 1 2003 Volume 06 : Number 258 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [idealcopy] O.T and other interesting stuff.......... [Ed Special ] Re: [idealcopy] disc rot [RLynn9@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] Coil (was MARS) ["John Roberts" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2003 06:43:15 -0400 From: Ed Special Subject: [idealcopy] O.T and other interesting stuff.......... > From: Ed Special > Date: Sat Aug 30, 2003 1:37:32 PM America/New_York > To: Ari Britt > Subject: Re: [idealcopy] O.T and other interesting stuff.......... > >> On Wednesday, August 27, 2003, at 04:15 PM, Ari Britt wrote: >> > http://nypress.com/inside.cfm?content_id=5693 > >> Ed Special wrote: >> But wait, there's more! >> http://www.911citizenswatch.org/ > > On Saturday, August 30, 2003, at 12:29 PM, Ari Britt wrote: > >> good one Ed......howz life? > > Concentrated. > Alternately onanating with Zeta Jones prostate cancer prevention > blowup doll and furiously editing 20 year old recordings of Special > Ed "Back To Skool" radio collages and soundtracks from some of the 134 > vintage educational/propaganda films I downloaded (free) from: > http://www.archive.org/movies/movies.php > http://www.archive.org/movies/prelinger.php > http://www.archive.org/movies/movieslisting- > browse.php?collection=prelinger > : for the upcoming annual Special Ed "Back To Skool" radio collage > this Tue/Wed, Sept. 2nd/3rd from midnight to 6 am, EST. > http://www.wcbn.org/listen.html > http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/ > http://www.convertit.com/Go/ConvertIt/World_Time/ > Time_Zones_Map_Large.ASP > > -Apologies to they who be waiting for some o me sound to contaminate > they mailboxes.... > I will try really hard to get them out in a week . . . . . or so. > > And you? > > Try > one: http://www.archive.org/movies/details- > db.php?collection=prelinger&collectionid=05088 > http://www.archive.org/movies/details- > db.php?collection=prelinger&collectionid=01447 > > Ed ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2003 15:18:28 -0400 From: Ed Special Subject: Re: [idealcopy] O.T and other interesting stuff.......... On Sunday, August 31, 2003, at 06:43 AM, Ed Special wrote: >> Try >> one: http://www.archive.org/movies/details- >> db.php?collection=prelinger&collectionid=05088 >> http://www.archive.org/movies/details- >> db.php?collection=prelinger&collectionid=01447 >> >> Ed If the links are split, rejoin them without a space: http://www.archive.org/movies/details- db.php?collection=prelinger&collectionid=05088 http://www.archive.org/movies/details- db.php?collection=prelinger&collectionid=01447 Ed ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2003 19:55:42 +0000 From: "John Roberts" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] disc rot Robert From what I remember the Peel Sesssion CDs on Strange Fruit were all pressed like this. Don't quote me on that. I might be getting mixed up with the gold sleeves for the vinyl editions. But my Buzzcocks, Go4, etc. ones are all gold too. And they all play fine. The only CD I have which seems to have rotted is Yello The Race CD single. I can get about three seconds out of it. Cheers John http://www.surf.to/ambition >From: RLynn9@aol.com >To: gromitklein@yahoo.com, idealcopy@smoe.org >Subject: Re: [idealcopy] disc rot >Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2003 14:50:48 EDT > >i just noticed that my copy of Wire's "Peel Sessions" cd -the one with >"Crazy >About Love" is bronzed really badly. > >Robert > >np- Gary Numan "Telekon" _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself with cool emoticons - download MSN Messenger today! http://www.msn.co.uk/messenger ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2003 15:57:59 EDT From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] disc rot in a perfect world we would be able to get replacements for free...due to shoddy manufacturing...but alas, we live in a shitty world where people get screwed over all the time.. RL np - Pete Namlook "Air" ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2003 20:05:30 +0000 From: "John Roberts" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Coil (was MARS) So am I ok to like Anal Staircase *and* think they talk a load of bobbins? 8-) John http://www.surf.to/ambition >From: "Stephen Graziano" >Reply-To: "Stephen Graziano" >To: , , >Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Coil (was MARS) >Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2003 11:21:33 -0500 > >I've always considered Coil (whom I enjoy immensely) as a variation on >psychedelic music and this discussion could apply any of the criticisms or >supports of Coil (and their ilk - and please RLynn don't dash off 2 dozen >consecutive stream of consciousness emails to react to my comments - one >thought out considered one carries much more impact) - could also be >applied >to many of the psyche-school of music making as they tend to involve a >voluntary release of the standard paradigm of reality and a certain "buying >into" of the concept in order to carry their effect. In much the same way >do movies carry their clout with the voluntary suspension of disbelief. If >one approaches an artist's work w/ a disposition to suspect their output >based on the cultural/stylistic signals that they send out, then one is >much >less likely to allow oneself to be enveloped by the effect. We all (myself >included) do it - I look at certain artists (who will remained unnamed so >as >not to introduce more XXX is cool you dolt threads) and immediately, even >w/out hearing the music dismiss them as faintly or even overtly ridiculous, >mundane, non-original, clichid, untalented, whatever. One can't >academically argue that any artists that operate on the margins of >commercial success and inherently aesthetically superior to any others, it >only reflects the nature of the relationship between the performers and >their accepting audience (thank you Simon Reynolds) and the shared culture >values and signifiers in that relationship. Many people here at Ideal Copy >like a wide variety of some musics that fall into various indie ghettos and >dislike others. Part of being an active fan of marginal music is also >being >an active dismisser of other acts, whether mainstream or horribly off-base >marginalia. If we are say, fans of Wire, and Wire are not a popular (by >the >standards of mainstream commercial musical marketing) then we are saying >that in some way, our tastes are different, and by implication superior to >that of the mainstream - and we communicate with each other on the >assumption that those other Wire acolytes share to some degree that same >elevated discrimination of artistic excellence. But no to brains, no two >reality maps, no two personal paradigms of aesthetic superiority are >identical and we all at some part diverge. So let's get off >ego-identification driven defense of personal favorites and beyond >mentioning our tastes not get into pointless so and so is cool and if you >don't like them, by some kind of implication my credibility as a connesure >of good music is impinged. >sg >http://www.sourmashusa.com >----- Original Message ----- >From: >To: ; >Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2003 12:05 PM >Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Coil (was MARS) > > > > > >>yeah...how long ago was that....Tibet is all about Jesus and Light > > > now...it's camp theatrics remember?? he was telling a long >story...Satan >being > > > point A ...then the journey to salvation and Jesus being point B....<< > > > > Sounds like 20:20 hindsight to me! > > > > > >>and why can't i make comparisions? are you saying the absurdities of >the > > > "mainstream" are ok and somehow excusable?..and the absurdities of the > > > marginalised are not?...wow, i thought only people here in america >thought that > > > way...<< > > > > You're becoming a master of missing the point! Just asking you to >compare > > like with like. There's little to be gained from comparing Coil to >Reality >TV, > > for example. I was just pointing out my perceived absurdities in Coil, >without > > needing to justify that by citing greater absurdities elsewhere. > > > > Mark _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself with cool emoticons - download MSN Messenger today! http://www.msn.co.uk/messenger ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2003 16:06:40 EDT From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: [idealcopy] killing joke well after graham's great PR job i went and downloaded a few tracks off this new KJ album. first one i got was "asteroid" and i must say my immediate thought was that it sounds very wire-like. it has the same kind of "compressed" sound as send , very heavy on trebly powerful guitars but not very bassy. presumably its all pro-tooled up , though i'm not claiming to be an expert on these things :-) and the lyric goes "asteroid......out of the void" which is rather like "comet"........has somebody sent jazz a copy of RnB recently???? the other few tracks i got were not so much in this vein , more the standard industrial-meets-KJ they've touted recently. its all ok but i can't see they've moved on to anything particularly interesting. a band i used to love , but i still reckon there's nothing essential post-youth (1st time around) and they had said most of it on the first album. did anyone get that "unperverted pantomime" re-issue? any good? p ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2003 20:06:56 +0000 From: "John Roberts" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Disc rot (was Coil) Keith You mean you don't own What's This For!? I'd invest in that next if I were you. Or a Catherine Zeta Jones pillow case? Cheers John http://www.surf.to/ambition >From: "Keith Astbury" >To: >Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Disc rot (was Coil) >Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2003 22:05:18 +0100 > > > >> > christ &the pale queens is suffering from the dreaded disc rot ... >only > > >> > case of such that i know of in my collection, > > > > > >My only known example is the thankfully now redundant Blue Orchids >"View > > from > > >the City" comp, which has gone a nasty shade of bronze and distorts > > horribly. > > >The Manchester Peel sessions compilatrion of similar vintage has gone >the > > >same colour, but still plays fine. Probably worth backing up just in >case > > though! > > > > > >Mark > >As far as I know I haven't got any cd's with 'disc rot' - do they just fail >to play totally? I ask, cos I've come across a few old ones that have gone >a >bronzey colour as above, but touch wood, they still play. Is disc rot a >question of time then? > >Re. Killing Joke's new album. There's a real difference in opinion here. >Bill thinks it's the bees knees, Robert doesn't rate it (their worst?). And >I haven't heard ANYTHING from it yet. > >The type of Killing Joke I *really* like is the 1st LP, Money Is Not Our >God, the opening 3 tracks of Pandemonium, etc. Should I get it? > >Keith _________________________________________________________________ Get Hotmail on your mobile phone http://www.msn.co.uk/msnmobile ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2003 20:11:41 +0000 From: "John Roberts" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] You Can't Leave Mr Marx's Table Now I'm really surprised at this reaction. When the new material starting arriving everyone seemed to be really +ve about it. Now it seems everyone is really down on it. I'm having a really busy few months so I've not been listening to anything much properly lately but I must say I really do prefer the vinyl edition to the CD. (Missing cover and all.) I also must say that I think that I'm liking this album much better than a couple of the MKII albums already. So where have all the pro-Senders gone then? And where do we think this album fits in the Wire pantheon? Cheers John http://www.surf.to/ambition >From: "Keith Knight" >To: "'Fergus Kelly'" , >Subject: RE: [idealcopy] You Can't Leave Mr Marx's Table Now >Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 20:09:24 +0100 > >Finding it very hard to listen to Send as an album, >having been so familiar with the R&B tunes, it just >sounds like those tunes in a slightly different order, >plus a few new ones. > >-------------- > >Yeah, I agree Fergus. I seem to have acquired a hell of a lot of stuff >over the summer and Send is not pulling its weight in the clamour to get >played regularly due to familiarity and the production quality, which >just isn't as satisfying as the R&Bs. I should probably get the >vinyl... > >Another the Keith _________________________________________________________________ Get Hotmail on your mobile phone http://www.msn.co.uk/msnmobile ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2003 22:42:01 +0100 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Disc rot (was Coil) > You mean you don't own What's This For!? I'd invest in that next if I were > you. Well I've got other KJ stuff than I listed, but I don't actually have WTF. As someone who'd loved the first LP, the stuff after disappointed me, and it was a while before I got anything else by them. I'll add it to my list! > Or a Catherine Zeta Jones pillow case? Well my Shirley Bassey one is certainly fading ; ) K NP He Said Omala - catch supposes (Got this and It-ness last week from WMO, and am seriously impressed with both) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2003 23:03:36 +0100 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: [idealcopy] old pieces of wire Dug out a few old cd's of late. Been playing lots of Julian Cope (his last 'proper' album Interpreter is fab - his best for yrs, since Peggy Suicide *at least*), Morrissey's Alma Matters (the one great moment from his disappointing last LP), and some Wire I hadn't heard in either a while, or - in certain cases - a pretty long time. IDEAL COPY - just as great as I remembered. Point of Collapse is such a great opening track! And that moment on Snakedrills A Serious of Snakes, two minutes in when the keyboard joins the fray and totally alters the mood, is colossol. KIDNEY BINGOES - glorious pop single, from it's almost Pretenders like chiming gtr intro to it's chorus to kill for. Special mention for PIETTA, which sounds better than ever imo. A great track. IN VIVO - in the same way that Touch & Go was disappointing after Shot By Both Sides, I always thought this was disappointing coming as it did after the chirpy little monkey that was Eardrum Buzz, but hearing it now it's easier to judge in it's own right. And whilst I doubt that any of us would pick it as our fave ever Wire 45 (anyone?), it's a record that sounds pretty good to these ears now. DRILL - As much as I like Drill, I still prefer to listen to this in 2-3 version installments. MANSCAPE - this has always been my least fave 'proper' Wire LP, though I probably prefer it to the Wir one. With the benefit of hindsight, I'm actually pretty glad they split up when they did, because post-IBTABA - which I love - Wir(e) seemed on the downward trend to me. I much prefer what they do now - after their lengthy hiatus - than this era (To answer John's query I'm very pro-Send - I love it, Half Eaten aside - and I'd put it behind the 3 mk 1 LP's, 1st 3 mk 2 LP's - inc. 'live' IBTABA - and ahead of this). Anyway, listening to Manscape for the first time in god knows how long I have to say I definitely like it more nowadays than at the time - Patterns of Behaviour & Small Black Reptile are particularly good imo, and I'm also rather partial to the sheer relentlessness of Torch It, and the tinkly prettiness of Morning Bell (even if for some reason the intro reminds me of the godawful You Take My Breath Away!). Interestingly enough though, for an album that was released in 1990, I think the production sounds more 80's than anything Wire released in that decade. Obviously, sounds didn't just change overnight because a new decade had started (a lot of early 90's dance tracks sound very 80's imo), but it does make me wonder if - production-wise - Wire were following as opposed to leading here? All the same, a much better album than I remembered. SLOW & SO IT GROWS - the one great Wir track imo, it was my single of '91. No doubt still is! Keith ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2003 02:04:28 +0200 From: "Jan J Noorda" Subject: [idealcopy] CUSP on Listening Eye Listening Eye offers 26 signed and numbered iris prints of photography by Jon Wozencroft. Many have been used for Touch artwork over the years; here they come as A3 size (420x297mm. inc border, uncropped, on malt paper. The one that is not on Touch is CUSP: Time + Space / Liquids + Metals released on Swim rec WM8 I think this is a nice gesture of Jon to Colin's Swim recordings Jan J ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V6 #258 *******************************