From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V6 #255 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Friday, August 29 2003 Volume 06 : Number 255 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [idealcopy] Coil (was MARS) [MarkBursa@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] Coil (was MARS) [RLynn9@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] Coil (was MARS) [MarkBursa@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] Coil (was MARS) [RLynn9@aol.com] [idealcopy] You Can't Leave Mr Marx's Table Now [Fergus Kelly ] Re: [idealcopy] Coil (was MARS) [RLynn9@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] You Can't Leave Mr Marx's Table Now ["Keith Astbury" ] Re: [idealcopy] Coil (was MARS) [RLynn9@aol.com] RE: [idealcopy] You Can't Leave Mr Marx's Table Now ["Keith Knight" ] [idealcopy] Keith.A wrote.. [Ari Britt ] Re: Fw: [idealcopy] Coil (was MARS) [RLynn9@aol.com] Re: Fw: [idealcopy] Coil (was MARS) ["dan bailey" ] [idealcopy] [Off Topic] ATDI, Sparta, Mars Volta, etc. [Paul Pietromonaco] Re: [idealcopy] Coil (was MARS) [CHRISWIRE@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] [Off Topic] ATDI, Sparta, Mars Volta, etc. [Andrew Walkin] Re: [idealcopy] Coil (was MARS) [CHRISWIRE@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] Coil (was MARS) ["Keith Astbury" ] Re: [idealcopy] Coil (was MARS) ["dan bailey" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 12:09:08 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Coil (was MARS) Robert, > >>"magic(k)" is no more absurd than Jesus, Brit-pop, fake-tits, or Reality > TV.......<< > > Stop trying to compare the absurdities of the margins with the absurdities > of the mainstream. Reality TV/fake tits/ Britney etc are very soft targets. > David Tibet (or "Christ 666" as I believe he sometimes appears) is an > altogether different level of absurdity. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 12:26:16 EDT From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Coil (was MARS) In a message dated 8/28/03 11:09:08 AM Central Daylight Time, Mark Bursa writes: > Stop trying to compare the absurdities of the margins with the absurdities > of the mainstream. Reality TV/fake tits/ Britney etc are very soft targets. > David Tibet (or "Christ 666" as I believe he sometimes appears) is an > altogether different level of absurdity. >> > > > Mark yeah...how long ago was that....Tibet is all about Jesus and Light now...it's camp theatrics remember?? he was telling a long story...Satan being point A ...then the journey to salvation and Jesus being point B.... and why can't i make comparisions? are you saying the absurdities of the "mainstream" are ok and somehow excusable?..and the absurdities of the marginalised are not?...wow, i thought only people here in america thought that way... RL ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 13:05:18 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Coil (was MARS) > >>yeah...how long ago was that....Tibet is all about Jesus and Light > now...it's camp theatrics remember?? he was telling a long story...Satan being > point A ...then the journey to salvation and Jesus being point B....<< Sounds like 20:20 hindsight to me! > >>and why can't i make comparisions? are you saying the absurdities of the > "mainstream" are ok and somehow excusable?..and the absurdities of the > marginalised are not?...wow, i thought only people here in america thought that > way...<< You're becoming a master of missing the point! Just asking you to compare like with like. There's little to be gained from comparing Coil to Reality TV, for example. I was just pointing out my perceived absurdities in Coil, without needing to justify that by citing greater absurdities elsewhere. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 13:18:24 EDT From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Coil (was MARS) In a message dated 8/28/03 12:05:18 PM Central Daylight Time, Mark Bursa writes: > You're becoming a master of missing the point! other random things i reckon myself to be the master of: 1. squirming out of relationships just before Christmas or Valentine's Day... 2. pulling on oppositions jersey to slow them down during a football/soccer encounter 3. taunting religious zealots 4. the sleeper hold 5. onanism 6. sleeping with my eyes open 7. astral projection 8. fantasizing about Catherine Zeta Jones 9. screening phonecalls 10. blocking out putrid odours (developed while working for the city morgue in the summer) RL ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 10:34:29 -0700 (PDT) From: Fergus Kelly Subject: [idealcopy] You Can't Leave Mr Marx's Table Now > and talking of which , "send ; the gig" would still be nice before > xmas.......... >>Nah.....I'd rather hear new stuff. ))) Yeah, me too. But as ever no-one knows whats coming next. Could be a more fully-formed album with a more varied musical palate than the relentless dugga of Send... ))) R&B03 is the main item on the menu at the moment, which will, apparently, mark a change of direction, (involving more electronics) which is welcome, enjoyable and all as the other R&Bs were. Finding it very hard to listen to Send as an album, having been so familiar with the R&B tunes, it just sounds like those tunes in a slightly different order, plus a few new ones. The pacing is pretty good for the most part, except for the inclusion of Half Eaten, which, quite frankly, is appalling. Should be called Half Arsed. Honest to God, what were they thinking ? Not content to listen to either the R&Bs or Send, I've made my own compilation, called Sent (a cross between Send and Spent!): In The Art Of Stopping Mr Marx's Table Being Watched Comet (Send mix with Robert's count in) Germ Ship Ist Fast Read And Burn Spent Trash/Treasure Nice Streets Above (edited version) You Can't Leave Now 99.9 >>could be another 3 years of inactivity. I don't see much more mileage in the High-Velocity Wire of Send.....time to move on. ))) Definitely in agreement there. Time to shift perspective. Send seems like a consolidation of new work to date, marking a point in time, rather than a template for the future. Otherwise they risk dissappearing up their own arses. Fergus np - Current 93: In A Foreign Town, In A Foreign Land __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 13:38:31 EDT From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Coil (was MARS) In a message dated 8/28/03 10:10:44 AM Central Daylight Time, MarkBursa@aol.com writes: > Coil's po-faced campness just raises a wry smile, and somehow lessens the > impact of their music. Nothing to do with getting offended. Takes a lot more > than > that to offend me! They just seem faintly ridiculous. > well...Coil may not be around to inflict much more of their po-faced ridiculously campy absurdities on the music world in the near future.....it seems that Jhon Balance and Peter "Sleazy" Christophersen have broken up (a few months ago) as a couple and due to recurring bouts with substance/mental problems Balance has not appeared at several of the more recent Coil gigs...leaving Sleazy to perform the scary/fractured/lovely/ambient/drifting/jarring/magickal (vocal-less) drones and soundscapes with the talented and equally eccentric and zany Thighpaulsandra (sometimes Spiritualized member)...Balance begins a new project with his new lover sometime in the future...While Sleazy has promised that IF there is no more Coil by the time of next years TG reunion gig, he will debut his solo project: Left Hand Path instead....how's that for information you could care less about?? RL ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 19:05:10 +0100 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Coil (was MARS) > "magic(k)" is no more absurd than Jesus, Brit-pop, fake-tits, or Reality > TV....... > > RL And to think it had all gone quiet here! I've just got back in and read this debate - and I loved it. Talk about going off tangents! Can't say I agree *totally* with any of you - Catherine Zeta Jones for god's sake, Robert! - but that's beside the point. It was entertaining stuff and some of it tickled me no end. You're all a hoot! Keith PS No taker's on the Wire being 'sexy' then! Not even Robert's famous sinewy arms!!! NP PSB's - nightlife ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 14:03:26 EDT From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Coil (was MARS) In a message dated 8/28/03 1:02:09 PM Central Daylight Time, keith.astbury10@virgin.net writes: > Catherine > Zeta Jones for god's sake, Robert! - but that's beside the point. oh what i wouldn't give ....that woman is ALL woman RL ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 13:26:01 -0500 From: "dan bailey" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Coil (was MARS) >> >>no. i do not find music to be "sexy" or what have you. could be the >> types of things i listen to though....<< > >Try Barry White! > >Mark ;-) so now we're on to necrophilia ... no *wonder* mark finds coil's stuff so bland. dan ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 14:35:58 EDT From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Coil (was MARS) In a message dated 8/28/03 1:27:27 PM Central Daylight Time, dpbailey@worldnet.att.net writes: > >> >>no. i do not find music to be "sexy" or what have you. could be the > >> types of things i listen to though....<< > > > >Try Barry White! > > > >Mark ;-) > > so now we're on to necrophilia ... no *wonder* mark finds coil's stuff so > bland. > > dan nah, Mark is just prejudiced against Coil because they aren't signed to Factory/LTM/Rough Trade/Cherry Red....and they don't have album sleeves designed by Peter Saville...although the mind does boggle at the thought of Scatology or the Anal Staircase as interpreted by Saville.... RL ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 19:49:49 +0100 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] You Can't Leave Mr Marx's Table Now > The pacing is pretty good for the > most part, except for the inclusion of Half Eaten, > which, quite frankly, is appalling. Should be called > Half Arsed. Honest to God, what were they thinking ? Does anyone like Half Eaten? Definitely one of the worst Wire tracks IMO. I'd have shoved it on a b-side at best. > ))) Definitely in agreement there. Time to shift > perspective. Send seems like a consolidation of new > work to date, marking a point in time, rather than a > template for the future. Otherwise they risk > dissappearing up their own arses. > > Fergus I could do another short sharp R&B burst, no problem, if that's their template. And if they take it somewhere else, that's great, too. The success rate so far has been pretty good! Keith NP Tindersticks - waiting for the moon ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 13:49:25 -0500 From: "dan bailey" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Coil (was MARS) reminding me anew of my recent discovery that my 10-or-so-year-old copy of christ & the pale queens is suffering from the dreaded disc rot ... only case of such that i know of in my collection, though considering how many thousands of cds i've got & how absurdly many haven't been played in years (if ever), i fear the consequences of deeper investigation. dan >> David Tibet (or "Christ 666" as I believe he sometimes appears) is an >> altogether different level of absurdity. > >Mark ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 15:01:02 EDT From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Coil (was MARS) Return-path: From: RLynn9@aol.com Full-name: RLynn 9 Message-ID: <8.3c02c70f.2c7fab46@aol.com> Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 15:00:22 EDT Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Coil (was MARS) To: dpbailey@worldnet.att.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 138 In a message dated 8/28/03 1:50:18 PM Central Daylight Time, dpbailey@worldnet.att.net writes: > reminding me anew of my recent discovery that my 10-or-so-year-old copy of > christ & the pale queens is suffering from the dreaded disc rot ... only > case of such that i know of in my collection, yes...i know how you feel Dan...but unfortunately, a lot of older World Serpent cds suffer from disc rot...i had to replace my copy of Coil's Unnatural History 1 a few months ago....i bet that wouldn't happen if they were signed to a reputable post-punk or brit-pop distributor ; P... RL ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 20:09:24 +0100 From: "Keith Knight" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] You Can't Leave Mr Marx's Table Now Finding it very hard to listen to Send as an album, having been so familiar with the R&B tunes, it just sounds like those tunes in a slightly different order, plus a few new ones. - -------------- Yeah, I agree Fergus. I seem to have acquired a hell of a lot of stuff over the summer and Send is not pulling its weight in the clamour to get played regularly due to familiarity and the production quality, which just isn't as satisfying as the R&Bs. I should probably get the vinyl... Another the Keith ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 14:10:18 -0500 From: "dan bailey" Subject: Fw: [idealcopy] Coil (was MARS) - -----Original Message----- From: RLynn9@aol.com To: dpbailey@worldnet.att.net Date: Thursday, August 28, 2003 2:00 PM Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Coil (was MARS) >In a message dated 8/28/03 1:50:18 PM Central Daylight Time, >dpbailey@worldnet.att.net writes: > >> reminding me anew of my recent discovery that my 10-or-so-year-old copy of >> christ & the pale queens is suffering from the dreaded disc rot ... only >> case of such that i know of in my collection, > >yes...i know how you feel Dan...but unfortunately, a lot of older World >Serpent cds suffer from disc rot...i had to replace my copy of Coil's Unnatural >History 1 a few months ago....i bet that wouldn't happen if they were signed to a >reputable post-punk or brit-pop distributor ; P... > >RL then i really will have to dig up my other world serpent discs & check 'em out. *sigh* pale queens was the only c93, i think, for which i paid anything like a premium price (& off ebay, yet) -- the others miraculously turned up used back in little rock. dan ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 12:24:33 -0700 (PDT) From: Ari Britt Subject: [idealcopy] Keith.A wrote.. Wings Venus & Mars is probably best avoided, Letting Go aside, as is - under thecircumstances - anything by Marianne Faithfull ; Duz anyone 'ave her 'Broken English on c.d..........Ari Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 15:30:03 EDT From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: Re: Fw: [idealcopy] Coil (was MARS) In a message dated 8/28/03 2:11:38 PM Central Daylight Time, dpbailey@worldnet.att.net writes: > then i really will have to dig up my other world serpent discs & check 'em > out. *sigh* pale queens was the only c93, i think, for which i paid anything > like a premium price (& off ebay, yet) -- the others miraculously turned up > used back in little rock. > > dan lots of devil-worshippers, nazis, and pretentious folks in Little Rock, Arkansas then eh Dan....don't guess the esteemed Mr.Bursa will be visiting there anytime soon.... RL ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 14:51:39 -0500 From: "dan bailey" Subject: Re: Fw: [idealcopy] Coil (was MARS) >> then i really will have to dig up my other world serpent discs & check 'em >> out. *sigh* pale queens was the only c93, i think, for which i paid >anything >> like a premium price (& off ebay, yet) -- the others miraculously turned up >> used back in little rock. >> >> dan > >lots of devil-worshippers, nazis, and pretentious folks in Little Rock, >Arkansas & that's just the newsroom i worked in! though i guess the devil-worshipping quotient declined precipitously when they got rid of me ... then eh Dan....don't guess the esteemed Mr.Bursa will be visiting there >anytime soon.... mark's always welcome here in montgomery (my house is 2 1/2 miles or so from the site of the 10 commandments frenzy), of course -- *someone* has to ferret out the source of all those creaming jesus & wumpscut cds that showed up last year at a since-closed shop, which come to think of it also provided me with a used copy of c93's faust ... dan > >RL ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 17:51:40 -0400 From: k erickson Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Coil (was MARS) > c'mon...most rock and pop songs are about love or fucking or a > combination of > the two... > wait, wait, wait: they can be COMBINED?!? how long has this been going on?! kristoph ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 15:59:41 -0700 From: Paul Pietromonaco Subject: [idealcopy] [Off Topic] ATDI, Sparta, Mars Volta, etc. Hi everyone, >Pretty accurate description. ATDI to some extent prefigured the "new rawk" >thing but didn't stick around long enough to deliver much (one-armed scissor was >a good single). Now they've morphed into the American Muse. Whoopee. > Well - 2/5th of the band did. The other 3/5ths became Sparta. Has anyone heard anything by Sparta? I think we've established what the Mars Volta sounds like. (^_^) Cheers, Paul ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 19:17:36 EDT From: CHRISWIRE@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Coil (was MARS) In a message dated 28/08/2003 16:46:05 GMT Daylight Time, postlibyan@netzero.com writes: > do people find Wire to be "sexy"? > No but Sexy & Rich ? Chris Got 5 CD's from Kevin Eden today.Will be buried in music for some time. 1.P'O - Whilst Climbing Thieves Vie For Attention 2.Ocsid - In Between 3.Bruce Gilbert - The Haring 4.Edvard Graham Lewis - Pre He 5.Desmond Simmons - Alone On Penguin Island Some stock is nearly exhausted so get them now. Better than Girls aloud ! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2003 00:22:45 +0100 From: Andrew Walkingshaw Subject: Re: [idealcopy] [Off Topic] ATDI, Sparta, Mars Volta, etc. On Thu, Aug 28, 2003 at 03:59:41PM -0700, Paul Pietromonaco wrote: > Hi everyone, > > >Pretty accurate description. ATDI to some extent prefigured the "new > rawk" > >thing but didn't stick around long enough to deliver much (one-armed > scissor was > >a good single). Now they've morphed into the American Muse. Whoopee. > > > > Well - 2/5th of the band did. The other 3/5ths became Sparta. Has > anyone heard anything by Sparta? I think we've established what the > Mars Volta sounds like. (^_^) > Like a marginally more conventional (in terms of punk/hardcore) ATD-I. They're alright but not spectacular, although "Mye" is a fairly immense tune. - - Andrew - -- home - email: andrew@lexical.org.uk http://www.lexical.org.uk/ work - email: adw27@esc.cam.ac.uk http://www.esc.cam.ac.uk/ radio: http://www.cur1350.co.uk/ blog: http://www.lexical.org.uk/blog/ "/Peep/". 'Yes?' "More cooookiessssss..." ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 19:23:40 EDT From: CHRISWIRE@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Coil (was MARS) In a message dated 28/08/2003 18:19:03 GMT Daylight Time, RLynn9@aol.com writes: > . squirming out of relationships just before Christmas or Valentine's > Day... > 2. pulling on oppositions jersey to slow them down during a football/soccer > encounter > 3. taunting religious zealots > 4. the sleeper hold > 5. onanism > 6. sleeping with my eyes open > 7. astral projection > 8. fantasizing about Catherine Zeta Jones > 9. screening phonecalls > 10. blocking out putrid odours (developed while working for the city morgue > in the summer) > > RL > My boy (ethereal arm around the shoulder at this point) - lets discuss these things one at a time.Starting with point 8. Chris NP. The Human League - Travelogue ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2003 00:38:01 +0100 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Coil (was MARS) > > . squirming out of relationships just before Christmas or Valentine's > > Day... > > 2. pulling on oppositions jersey to slow them down during a football/soccer > > encounter > > 3. taunting religious zealots > > 4. the sleeper hold > > 5. onanism > > 6. sleeping with my eyes open > > 7. astral projection > > 8. fantasizing about Catherine Zeta Jones > > 9. screening phonecalls > > 10. blocking out putrid odours (developed while working for the city morgue > > in the summer) > > > > RL > > > > My boy (ethereal arm around the shoulder at this point) - lets discuss these > things one at a time.Starting with point 8. > Chris Are 8 & 10 connected? > NP. The Human League - Travelogue All those new cd's to listen to as well! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 23:32:14 EDT From: Eardrumbuz@aol.com Subject: [idealcopy] Re: being master In a message dated 8/28/03 1:19:03 PM, RLynn9@aol.com writes: >4. the sleeper hold >5. onanism be careful not to mix those two up, ok? - -another the paul www.mp3.com/winteracademy ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 23:41:57 EDT From: Eardrumbuz@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] You Can't Leave Mr Marx's Table Now fergus, that's a nice tracklist. i'm gonna fit i don't understand, raft ants, agfers, and half ea...uh, nevermind. seriously though, i think spent and agfers are the two i could most easily tweak out of the list, and maybe i don't understand. i'm gonna try your list with half eaten and raft ants in place of spent and see how that sounds. is it the bounciness of half eaten that makes it the sore thumb of send? i could understand that, but i still like it. - -another the paul In a message dated 8/28/03 1:35:10 PM, lockupyourhats@yahoo.com writes: >In The Art Of Stopping >Mr Marx's Table >Being Watched >Comet (Send mix with Robert's count in) >Germ Ship >Ist Fast >Read And Burn >Spent >Trash/Treasure >Nice Streets Above (edited version) >You Can't Leave Now >99.9 www.mp3.com/winteracademy ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2003 00:01:43 EDT From: Eardrumbuz@aol.com Subject: [idealcopy] Re: sexy wire i have associated wire music with sex. the sexiest songs are on first letter, then the drill has some very sexy versions, and most of mkII has a sexy feel to it. again, i'm not a lyrics person. i go for texture in music. - -paul (what's your desire?) c.d. www.mp3.com/winteracademy ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2003 07:49:55 +0100 From: "Andrew Lumbard" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] sweeping gestures Keuth A has >> Just seen Longwave on MTV << Sorry, just had a mental image of Radio 4 and Longwave on the same bill with Henry Bloefelt on guest vocals. AndyL ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2003 21:34:51 -0500 From: "dan bailey" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Coil (was MARS) >> > 7. astral projection the sound you hear is my ears pricking up. yes, only my ears -- no thoughts about ms zeta-jones *here*. dan ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2003 21:42:32 -0500 From: "dan bailey" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Coil (was MARS) >> NP. The Human League - Travelogue speaking of which vibe (somewhat), i see that one of my most-wished-for cds has finally come out -- cowboys international's the original sin. well, actually it's called "revisited" & omits one lp track (the 'no' tune) & adds 7 non-lp ones (fixation, many times, future noise, today, millions, nothing doing & too much too little). maybe there's hope yet for enthralled-by-evil-major-label acts like tv21 ... dan ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V6 #255 *******************************