From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V6 #254 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Thursday, August 28 2003 Volume 06 : Number 254 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [idealcopy] MARS ["Keith Astbury" ] Re: [idealcopy] MARS [MarkBursa@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] MARS ["Keith Astbury" ] Re: [idealcopy] MARS [MarkBursa@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] Re: spent ["Keith Astbury" ] Re: [idealcopy] MARS [MarkBursa@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] MARS ["Keith Astbury" ] Re: [idealcopy] MARS [Andrew Walkingshaw ] Re: [idealcopy] MARS [Andrew Walkingshaw ] Re: [idealcopy] Re: spent [MarkBursa@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] Re: spent [P J Kane ] Re: [idealcopy] MARS [MarkBursa@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] MARS [Andrew Walkingshaw ] Re: [idealcopy] MARS [MarkBursa@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] MARS [MarkBursa@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] MARS ["Keith Astbury" ] Re: [idealcopy] Re: spent ["Keith Astbury" ] Re: [idealcopy] Re: spent [Andrew Walkingshaw ] Re: [idealcopy] Re: spent [Eardrumbuz@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] Coil (was MARS) ["Keith Astbury" ] Re: [idealcopy] Coil (was MARS) [RLynn9@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] Coil (was MARS) [RLynn9@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] Coil (was MARS) [MarkBursa@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] Coil (was MARS) [MarkBursa@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] Coil (was MARS) [RLynn9@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] Coil (was MARS) [RLynn9@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] Coil (was MARS) [RLynn9@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] Coil (was MARS) [RLynn9@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] Coil (was MARS) [RLynn9@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] Coil (was MARS) [RLynn9@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] Coil (was MARS) [RLynn9@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] Coil (was MARS) [P J Kane ] Re: [idealcopy] Coil (was MARS) [RLynn9@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] Coil (was MARS) [MarkBursa@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] Coil (was MARS) [MarkBursa@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] Coil (was MARS) [P J Kane ] Re: [idealcopy] Coil (was MARS) [MarkBursa@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] Coil (was MARS) [RLynn9@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] Coil (was MARS) [RLynn9@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] Coil (was MARS) [P J Kane ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 12:36:12 +0100 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] MARS What about the mighty Ballrooms of Mars from The Slider?!? "John Lennon knows your name and I've seen his" What could he have been referring to! Keith (resident Bolan expert who can also recommend some other interplanetary Bolan tracks ~ Venus Loon, Jupiter Liar, etc!). PS You should also include Stereolabs superb Mars Audiac Quintet. Wings Venus & Mars is probably best avoided, Letting Go aside, as is - under the circumstances - anything by Marianne Faithfull ; ) - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2003 12:38 AM Subject: [idealcopy] MARS > to celebrate the close proximity of Mars, the past few days i have been > listening to: > > "Mars" from the "Space" lp by KLF > "Mars Rain" from the "Atmospherics" cd by James Bernard > "Memphis to Mars" from "Earth to Infinity" by David Moufang > "Mars-The Bringer of War" from the "Planets" (Holst) by Tomita > "Journey to the Martian Polar Cap" from "LBH-6251876" by Red Planet > "How to Destroy Angels" by Coil (a celebration of male sexual energy from > Mars) > "The Little Man From Mars" from "The In Sound From Way Out" by Jean Jacques > Perrrey & Gershon Kingsley > "The Little Girl From Mars" from "The Amazing New Electronic Pop Sound of > Jean Jacques Perrey" > "Pump Up the Volume" by M.A.R.R.S. > "Marrs Needs Women" from "Armed Audio Warfare" by Meat Beat Manifesto > "Life on Mars" from "Hunky Dory" by David Bowie > "Ziggy Stardust" from "The Rise and Fall of Ziggy Stardust and the Spiders > from Mars" by David Bowie > > > and i'm still digging through my collection.... > > RL ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 07:39:54 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] MARS > Keith (resident Bolan expert who can also recommend some other > interplanetary Bolan tracks ~ Venus Loon, Jupiter Liar, etc!). Keith, when it comes to Bolan you're definitely up Uranus ;-) Mark ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 12:44:17 +0100 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] MARS Just pressed send to Roberts Mars mail and immediately received the below message.... SPOOKY!!! (btw did anyone actually see it last night?) Have any of you boys seen / heard anything by The Mars Volta (featuring ex-members of At The Drive-In)? Caught a video (mainly live footage) of something off their album: De-Lousing In The Comatorium (yikes!), the other night, and it was simply one of the most migraine-inducing rackets I've heard for a long while. Hideously fussy, Prog-Jazz-Toss (double yikes!!) would just about cover all their bases - but it was so spectacularly irritating that I actually felt an abstract compulsion towards this fuzzy-haired atrocity. Probably end up with the album by the end of the year! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 07:41:02 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] MARS > >>"How to Destroy Angels" by Coil (a celebration of male sexual energy from > > Mars)<< So "I'm going to destroy some angels" is a euphemism for one off the wrist? Coil. Tossers. Literally! Mark ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 12:48:22 +0100 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: spent > looking at the goldfrapp example, they could just as easily release a single cd > featuring everything that's on the three individual ones, but i'm sure these > things have much more to do with making money than making art. > > -paul c.d. I think it's actually more to do with chart placings, certainly here in the UK. Two sales at #1.99 mean more chart success than one at #3.99. I don't know whether this rule is still in place but a few yrs back cd single's over a certain length or with more than a certain amount of tracks (4 I think) were automatically disqualified from a chart placing. K. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 07:47:13 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] MARS > >>Have any of you boys seen / heard anything by The Mars Volta (featuring > ex-members of At The Drive-In)? Caught a video (mainly live footage) of > something off their album: De-Lousing In The Comatorium (yikes!), the other > night, and it was simply one of the most migraine-inducing rackets I've > heard for a long while. Hideously fussy, Prog-Jazz-Toss (double yikes!!)<< Pretty accurate description. ATDI to some extent prefigured the "new rawk" thing but didn't stick around long enough to deliver much (one-armed scissor was a good single). Now they've morphed into the American Muse. Whoopee. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 12:51:46 +0100 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] MARS Keith (resident Bolan expert who can also recommend some other interplanetary Bolan tracks ~ Venus Loon, Jupiter Liar, etc!). Keith, when it comes to Bolan you're definitely up Uranus ;-) Mark Yep! As it happens that's one he didn't sing about ; ) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 12:48:47 +0100 From: Andrew Walkingshaw Subject: Re: [idealcopy] MARS On Thu, Aug 28, 2003 at 12:44:17PM +0100, Keith Astbury quoted someone else writing: > Have any of you boys seen / heard anything by The Mars Volta (featuring > ex-members of At The Drive-In)? Caught a video (mainly live footage) of > something off their album: De-Lousing In The Comatorium (yikes!), the other > night, and it was simply one of the most migraine-inducing rackets I've > heard for a long while. Hideously fussy, Prog-Jazz-Toss (double yikes!!) > would just about cover all their bases - but it was so spectacularly > irritating that I actually felt an abstract compulsion towards this > fuzzy-haired atrocity. > > Probably end up with the album by the end of the year! A very clever-clever record - it reminds me of Mansun's "Six". (I have both, incidentally). I'm not a fan of it, I must admit. Here's a review I wrote: hopefully it might prove useful. - --- I'm very, very, confused by the recent Mars Volta record. This is an unusual experience for me: I'm pretty decisive about whether I like records or not. I think the thing is that it's very clever, and very imposing, but feels hollow to me - the album it reminds me of, more than anything else, is Mansun's "Six". ("Six" is an album I am hugely impressed by still - partially, I suspect, because of its personal resonance for me - - a curiously unemotional record which still manages to capture the sensation of undergoing a panic attack better than anything else I've listened to. Of course, listening to a band undergoing cocaine-induced nervous breakdowns isn't something you want to do every day, but it has its place.) The factor both records have in common is their remarkable, frenetic hopping between ideas and concepts (the downside of that being that you get the impression the band have the collective attention span of a goldfish), but in the case of "Deloused in the Comatorium" there's the nagging feeling it's something of a three card monte: constantly waving a new element into the mix to distract the listener from the fact that something - an attempt to emotionally engage with the audience in some way, maybe - really, is missing. Much like Mansun's "Six", there are moments where it all meshes - "Son et Lumiere" into the first two minutes of "Inertiatic ESP", most of "Roulette Dares" - but whether this is the application of talent or statistics is open to question. Record enough fragments of songs and some will be decent... (Incidentally, in my always understated opinion, Mansun recorded two of the best singles of the 90s; "Wide Open Space" and "Being A Girl (Pt 1)".) It's also a very enervated, speedy, paranoid record - and though I'm a fairly enervated, speedy, paranoid *person*, that doesn't mean I always like to listen to reflections of my psyche. (The prospect of me-on-amphetamines should be enough to terrify any right-thinking person, I suspect.) On a technical note: Cedric Bixler's voice is also steeped in Antares Auto-Tune right across the record. It's so blatant the effect must be deliberate at points, but I preferred the greater honesty of the sound on ATD-I's records - another example of the artifice, and distance, built into the record. I can admire it, but it's a record I find hard to enjoy as much as I enjoyed "Relationship of Command". There's nothing I can connect with in the way I did with "One-Armed Scissor", for instance. I suspect on the terms of the Mars Volta, this counts as a success: I'm not sure that it does on mine. - --- - -- home - email: andrew@lexical.org.uk http://www.lexical.org.uk/ work - email: adw27@esc.cam.ac.uk http://www.esc.cam.ac.uk/ radio: http://www.cur1350.co.uk/ blog: http://www.lexical.org.uk/blog/ "/Peep/". 'Yes?' "More cooookiessssss..." ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 12:50:09 +0100 From: Andrew Walkingshaw Subject: Re: [idealcopy] MARS On Thu, Aug 28, 2003 at 07:47:13AM -0400, MarkBursa@aol.com wrote: > Pretty accurate description. ATDI to some extent prefigured the "new > rawk" thing but didn't stick around long enough to deliver much > (one-armed scissor was a good single). Now they've morphed into the > American Muse. Whoopee. That's unfair. Muse, at least, have some vaguely memorable melodies, and their prog-metal assault on "House of the Rising Sun" has comedy value. - - Andrew (and if that's not damning with faint praise...) - -- email: andrew@lexical.org.uk http://www.lexical.org.uk/ Earth Sciences, University of Cambridge http://www.esc.cam.ac.uk/ DJ, CUR1350 - http://www.cur1350.co.uk/ blog: http://www.lexical.org.uk/blog/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 07:51:20 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: spent > >>Two sales at #1.99 mean more chart success than one at #3.99. > > I don't know whether this rule is still in place but a few yrs back cd > single's over a certain length or with more than a certain amount of tracks > (4 I think) were automatically disqualified from a chart placing.<< And there is a format limit (I think three). As you say, discount pricing works fine - British Sea Power used this trick - #1.99 CDs (x2) and 99p 7inch - so that's three sales for less than a fiver (which some CD singles are). Worked for them too - chart! hit! 36! The Goldfrapp CD singles were going for 99p in HMV. Also with single sales so low these days you're actually buying a rarity! The system is better than France, where singles have to be 2 tracks. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 11:59:37 GMT From: P J Kane Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: spent << I think it's actually more to do with chart placings, certainly here in the UK. >> does anyone even chart singles here in The States anymore? << I don't know whether this rule is still in place but a few yrs back cd single's over a certain length or with more than a certain amount of tracks (4 I think) were automatically disqualified from a chart placing. >> i seem to remember reading, at the time, that this was all due to The Orb's single for "Blue Room", the CD of which contained 4 mixes of that song, the "full version" being exactly 40 minutes in length. (i have a CD-R of this single, and that full version is quite trippy). the gist is that the "single" contained almost 1 hour of music, and the tale i have heard is that whoever handles these things said "That's ridiculous" and changed it so that something like that could never happen again. can anyone confirm or deny this? it might very well be something made up and propogated by Orb fans, who are often a little too inebriated to be trustworthy. PJK please don't hate me because i can't type..... - --- All the cool kids are doing it: HTTP://www.EvilSponge.org ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 08:07:17 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] MARS > >>That's unfair. Muse, at least, have some vaguely memorable melodies, > and their prog-metal assault on "House of the Rising Sun" has comedy > value.<< Terrible band. "comedy prog metal" would describe their entire output. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 13:08:50 +0100 From: Andrew Walkingshaw Subject: Re: [idealcopy] MARS On Thu, Aug 28, 2003 at 08:07:17AM -0400, MarkBursa@aol.com wrote: > > >>That's unfair. Muse, at least, have some vaguely memorable melodies, > > and their prog-metal assault on "House of the Rising Sun" has comedy > > value.<< > > Terrible band. "comedy prog metal" would describe their entire output. Point being that the Mars Volta - who I struggled very hard to say nice things about in that review, because Inertiatic ESP isn't a bad tune - don't even manage the comedy... - - Andrew - -- email: andrew@lexical.org.uk http://www.lexical.org.uk/ Earth Sciences, University of Cambridge http://www.esc.cam.ac.uk/ DJ, CUR1350 - http://www.cur1350.co.uk/ blog: http://www.lexical.org.uk/blog/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 08:12:22 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] MARS > >>A very clever-clever record - it reminds me of Mansun's "Six". (I have > both, > incidentally). I'm not a fan of it, I must admit.<< Six is excellent. Good live too, very, very loud, and all the songs ran into one another on a sea of feedback and noise. Not a single break in a 60-minute set. As ATDI prefigured new rawk, Mansun prefigured "new post-punk" to some extent. Not least by dragging Howard Devoto out of retirement, in much the same way as ATDI got Robb Tyner's hair back working again ;-) >>(Incidentally, in my always understated opinion, Mansun recorded two of the best singles of the 90s; "Wide Open Space" and "Being A Girl (Pt 1)".)<< Especially WOS. Shame they blew it with a too-calculated "commercial" album as a follow-up to Six. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 08:13:31 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] MARS > >>Point being that the Mars Volta - who I struggled very hard to say nice > things about in that review, because Inertiatic ESP isn't a bad tune - > don't even manage the comedy...<< Which is probably a good thing! Mark ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 13:58:14 +0100 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] MARS Mark... > ATDI to some extent prefigured the "new rawk" > thing but didn't stick around long enough to deliver much (one-armed scissor was > a good single). One- Armed Scissor was great! Don't find myself playing the album much, mind ; ) Did you ever see their performance on Later a few yrs back? Excellent! >Now they've morphed into the American Muse. Whoopee. I thought Muse did a couple of half-decent singles early on, until they decided to become the new Queen. Still, I have to say I enjoy the singers cavortings, there was an especially great (comedy) performance on kids telly once. Sadly his throne has now been stolen by the mighty Darkness ; ) As for my local band Mansun (Chester band my arse. The mainman Draper lived in Deeside!) >Especially WOS. Superb single. >Shame they blew it with a too-calculated "commercial" album >as a follow-up to Six. I loved their 3rd album. Especially the Associates-like I Can Only Disappoint U. Wonder how long it'll be before their port-hunous 4th sees the light of day. (Talking of Mansun, where's Michael/Rain gone? Michael, can you hear me?) K. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 14:17:36 +0100 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: spent > can anyone confirm or deny this? it might very well be something made up and propogated by Orb fans, who are often a little too inebriated to be trustworthy. > > PJK I don't think it was down to any one cd. Loop Guru's epic 3rd Chamber, for example, was an hour long. Of course, there's nothing to stop anyone releasing a 60 min cd single now. It's just that they won't see their name mentioned in 'hit parade' ; ) K. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 14:19:13 +0100 From: Andrew Walkingshaw Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: spent On Thu, Aug 28, 2003 at 02:17:36PM +0100, Keith Astbury wrote: > > can anyone confirm or deny this? it might very well be something made up > and propogated by Orb fans, who are often a little too inebriated to be > trustworthy. > > > > PJK > > I don't think it was down to any one cd. Loop Guru's epic 3rd Chamber, for > example, was an hour long. > > Of course, there's nothing to stop anyone releasing a 60 min cd single now. > It's just that they won't see their name mentioned in 'hit parade' ; ) Furthermore, you get otherwise truly majestic singles (my favourite single ever, for instance) which are *deliberately* chart-eligible. "My Father, My King", by Mogwai, incidentally. I hope they work with Steve Albini again in the future. - - Andrew (whatever Bill says, "Happy Songs..." is a fantastic record. Up there with Ulrich Schnauss' "A Strangely Isolated Place" as my favourite of the year so far...) - -- email: andrew@lexical.org.uk http://www.lexical.org.uk/ Earth Sciences, University of Cambridge http://www.esc.cam.ac.uk/ DJ, CUR1350 - http://www.cur1350.co.uk/ blog: http://www.lexical.org.uk/blog/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 09:26:30 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] MARS > >>One- Armed Scissor was great! Don't find myself playing the album much, > mind > ; )<< Never bothered with the album - just have two singles. Which is all I'll ever need to hear ;-) > >>Did you ever see their performance on Later a few yrs back? Excellent!<< "Good lord! It's someone with an MC5 haircut!!" > >>Now they've morphed into the American Muse. Whoopee. > > I thought Muse did a couple of half-decent singles early on, until they > decided to become the new Queen. Still, I have to say I enjoy the singers > cavortings, there was an especially great (comedy) performance on kids telly > once. Sadly his throne has now been stolen by the mighty Darkness ; )<< Oh dear. Please spare us from novelty rock. The only humour in rock is when it's unintentional, eg Killing Joke ;-) And the only funny thing about the Darkness is that they're from Lowestoft. Rawk 'n' roooollll!!! > >>As for my local band Mansun (Chester band my arse. The mainman Draper > lived > in Deeside!)<< At least they didn't pretend to be from Manchester, like those denizens of Knutsford and, er, Wolverhampton, the Charlatans. > >>I loved their 3rd album. Especially the Associates-like I Can Only > Disappoint U.<< Associates-like or Associates-lite? > >>Wonder how long it'll be before their port-hunous 4th sees the light of > day.<< They had a pretty hardcore fan base, so I'm sure it'll be worth somebody's while to release it. Wonder what drugs they were on when they made it? Mark ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 10:03:13 EDT From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] MARS In a message dated 8/28/03 6:41:02 AM Central Daylight Time, Mark Bursa writes: > << >>"How to Destroy Angels" by Coil (a celebration of male sexual energy > from > Mars)<< >> > > > So "I'm going to destroy some angels" is a euphemism for one off the wrist? > > Coil. Tossers. Literally! > > Mark > ahh Mark...you don't know what you're missing.... RL ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 10:10:13 EDT From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: spent In a message dated 8/28/03 8:20:32 AM Central Daylight Time, andrew-wire@lexical.org.uk writes: > Andrew (whatever Bill says, "Happy Songs..." is a fantastic record. > Up there with Ulrich Schnauss' "A Strangely Isolated Place" as my favourite > of the year so far...) > my only complaint with the new Ulrich Schnauss is that he seems to rely on the same gimmicks too much....sort of like Sigur Ros or some Cocteau Twins material... RL ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 10:28:52 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Coil (was MARS) > >>ahh Mark...you don't know what you're missing....<< > > If they'd just release the records, and leave an air of mystery... but no. > "a celebration of male sexual energy". I find that very difficult to take > seriously. > > Mark ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 15:43:53 +0100 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] MARS > And the only funny thing about the > Darkness is that they're from Lowestoft. Rawk 'n' roooollll!!! Is there such a word as 'placist'? > Associates-like or Associates-lite? Like! Keith np sonic youth - made in america ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 10:47:56 EDT From: Eardrumbuz@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: spent In a message dated 8/28/03 7:52:06 AM, MarkBursa@aol.com writes: >> >>Two sales at #1.99 mean more chart success than one at #3.99. >> >> I don't know whether this rule is still in place but a few yrs back cd >> single's over a certain length or with more than a certain amount of >tracks >> (4 I think) were automatically disqualified from a chart placing.<< > >And there is a format limit (I think three). > >As you say, discount pricing works fine - British Sea Power used this trick >- >#1.99 CDs (x2) and 99p 7inch - so that's three sales for less than a fiver >(which some CD singles are). Worked for them too - chart! hit! 36! > >The Goldfrapp CD singles were going for 99p in HMV. ah, now we could be getting somewhere (somewhere being a place that has to do with making money)...i do remember something about single length/number of tracks, so from that point it makes sense. that still is no excuse for goldfrapp making 3 singles with one non-lp song between them. maybe other people are more into live versions than i am. i like live versions too, but i'd much rather hear a new song. then there's the price. are you all saying that the cd singles over there only cost 99p-1.99?? stores over here charge 9-11 dollars for those import singles! that's what pisses me off so much. www.mp3.com/winteracademy ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 15:53:22 +0100 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Coil (was MARS) You mean Coil are 'cock rock' then ; ) > > >>ahh Mark...you don't know what you're missing....<< > > > > If they'd just release the records, and leave an air of mystery... but no. > > "a celebration of male sexual energy". I find that very difficult to take > > seriously. > > > > Mark ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 10:47:53 -0500 From: "Stephen Graziano" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] FW: MID PRICE MADNESS from Mute Bank The Signals album is interesting. The original foursome regrouped some 20 years after the fact to rerecord tunes that they played back in their original incarnation as a young band. Plus they added in unused mixes off their first ep "Holiday of Love". Interestingly, it's not immediately apparent which tracks are 20 years old and which are new recordings. Hilly Kristal released it on his CBGB label, but didn't do too much to promote it. My release "An Introduction to War" contains 2CDs - one is live recordings taken mostly from CBGB soundboard tapes from 81-83. Some of the same songs appear, but the versions are noticeably more energetic and crazed. The post DNA/Contortions influences are much more noticeable, blending into the incipient UK postpunk PiL, Gang of Four, Echo influences that they were picking up on. If you play the live CD on a good system, that first track - At Peace is as heavy and dubby as any Metal Box period PiL - and it's amazing to think that all that sound was captured on cassette. I consider the CD are real stone classic portrait of the "NYC sound". btw - you could have seen them at the Ritz - they supported the Gang of Four there in late 82, and of course they played CBGB innumerable times - either headlining locally based shows, or playing with interesting visiting bands like Mission of Burma, Green on Red, Rain Parade to name some off the top of my head. sg http://www.sourmashusa.com - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2003 5:50 PM Subject: Re: [idealcopy] FW: MID PRICE MADNESS from Mute Bank > In a message dated 8/26/03 12:54:03 PM, sjgraziano@hotmail.com writes: > > >I congratulate you on the Certain General find. If you like the CD, visit > > > >my label's website (below). I've got a double CD by them that blows all > >the > > > >Interpol, Rogers Sisters, Liars, Strokes, et al crowd to smithereens. > >The > > > >Real Deal. > > > >sg > > > >http://www.sourmashusa.com > > thanks for the url, stephen. i did get a chance to see certain general back > in the day, at the old ritz i think...maybe cbgb's. i never did own any of > their records though, so this cd is a real treat. i'm also enjoying some of the > new groups you named above, but i know the real deal too ;o) > > -paul c.d. > > www.mp3.com/winteracademy ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 15:58:59 +0100 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: spent > then there's the price. are you all saying that the cd > singles over there only cost 99p-1.99?? stores over here charge 9-11 dollars for > those import singles! that's what pisses me off so much. New releases are usually either #1.99 or #2.99 (though there doesn't seem quite so many cheaper ones nowadays, at least round here). There's the odd one that's getting a real push at 99p, like goldfrapp obviously is. Then after the first week, or at least until the initial batch have gone, they're generally #3.99. Unless you're prepared to wait till they've gone out of the charts, and then - if they have any left - they come back down in price again...Picked up Elbows single this week for 99p. K. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 11:01:02 EDT From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Coil (was MARS) In a message dated 8/28/03 9:28:52 AM Central Daylight Time, Mark Bursa writes: > If they'd just release the records, and leave an air of mystery... but no. " > a celebration of male sexual energy". I find that very difficult to take > seriously. why? .....is it only women whose sexuality should be celebrated? i find it difficult to take the media/commercial selling of unreal sexuality...funny how nobody ever questions that.....i can zillions of fake-titted models in my face selling sex and nobody ever raises a fuss...but as soon as an artist creates a piece having to do with sex everyone gets offended and crazy and wants ridicule RL ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 11:03:26 EDT From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Coil (was MARS) In a message dated 8/28/03 9:50:33 AM Central Daylight Time, keith.astbury10@virgin.net writes: > You mean Coil are 'cock rock' then ; ) of the highest and most literal form.....you'd have to see them live to get the full gist RL np- Coil : The Anal Staircase ep ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 11:08:41 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Coil (was MARS) > >>why? .....is it only women whose sexuality should be celebrated? i find > it > difficult to take the media/commercial selling of unreal sexuality...funny > how > nobody ever questions that.....i can zillions of fake-titted models in my > face > selling sex and nobody ever raises a fuss...but as soon as an artist creates > > a piece having to do with sex everyone gets offended and crazy and wants > ridicule<< That's so far from the point I'm making it's not true. "fake-titted models" don't make me go and buy albums. Coil's po-faced campness just raises a wry smile, and somehow lessens the impact of their music. Nothing to do with getting offended. Takes a lot more than that to offend me! They just seem faintly ridiculous. Though not as ridiculous as David Tibet ;-) Anyhow, didn't Frankie Goes to Hollywood reach number 1 with a "celebration of male sexual energy". Mark ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 11:09:51 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Coil (was MARS) > >>np- Coil : The Anal Staircase ep<< > > What did I just say about "po-faced campness"? > Should I add the word "pretentious" in there somewhere? > Mark ;-) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 11:10:21 EDT From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Coil (was MARS) In a message dated 8/28/03 10:08:41 AM Central Daylight Time, Mark Bursa writes: > Anyhow, didn't Frankie Goes to Hollywood reach number 1 with a "celebration > of male sexual energy". hey, whatever it takes... RL ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 11:11:52 EDT From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Coil (was MARS) In a message dated 8/28/03 10:08:41 AM Central Daylight Time, Mark Bursa writes: > Coil's po-faced campness just raises a wry smile, and somehow lessens the > impact of their music. Nothing to do with getting offended. Takes a lot more > than that to offend me! They just seem faintly ridiculous. > > Though not as ridiculous as David Tibet ;-) if being different then all the homogenous crap that's out there makes one ridiculous..then so be it.... RL ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 11:15:04 EDT From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Coil (was MARS) In a message dated 8/28/03 10:08:41 AM Central Daylight Time, Mark Bursa writes: > "fake-titted models" don't make me go and buy albums. hmmm...that's funny....Beyonce,Britney, Christina, and that fat-ass J-Lo seem to hypnotize a whole lot of idiots into buying their records (though i can't understand why).... and their clothing lines and their make-up and go to their stupid movies and it sure isn't because they're talented RL ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 11:16:20 EDT From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Coil (was MARS) In a message dated 8/28/03 10:08:41 AM Central Daylight Time, Mark Bursa writes: > Coil's po-faced campness just raises a wry smile, and somehow lessens the > impact of their music. Nothing to do with getting offended. Takes a lot more > than that to offend me! They just seem faintly ridiculous. > almost as ridiculous as post-punk or brit-pop nostalgia and retro-revivalism?? RL ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 11:18:15 EDT From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Coil (was MARS) In a message dated 8/28/03 10:09:51 AM Central Daylight Time, Mark Bursa writes: > << >>np- Coil : The Anal Staircase ep<< > > What did I just say about "po-faced campness"? > >> > > Should I add the word "pretentious" in there somewhere? > > > << Mark ;-) >> rock and roll and pop music in general was built on the very foundation of sex and rebellion....but why is that when someone camps it up and makes fun of it from a gay perspective it is suddenly lame and not ok?? RL ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 11:22:27 EDT From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Coil (was MARS) In a message dated 8/28/03 10:11:48 AM Central Daylight Time, MarkBursa@aol.com writes: > > >>np- Coil : The Anal Staircase ep<< > > > > What did I just say about "po-faced campness"? > > > Should I add the word "pretentious" in there somewhere? > > > Mark ;-) and i don't reckon that any of the things/shit discussed on this list on a regular basis can ever be accused of pretentiousness? i.e. : Wire (especially the side projects)...The Fall...King Crimson....all those Brit Pop cunts...T. Rex....David Bowie...Roxy Music/Bryan Ferry.....Spiritualized...My Bloody Valentine....MOGWAI (fer chrissakes)....Godspeed...Radiohead....and on and on.. RL ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 11:24:00 EDT From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Coil (was MARS) In a message dated 8/28/03 10:12:38 AM Central Daylight Time, RLynn9@aol.com writes: > Coil's po-faced campness just raises a wry smile, and somehow lessens the > > impact of their music. and by the way, aren't you a big fan of 80's post-punk (as am i)????? isn't that the very epitome of po-faced???? the Cure...Joy Division...A Certain Ratio...Echo and the bunnymen...Siouxsie....etc.. RL ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 15:33:22 GMT From: P J Kane Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Coil (was MARS) << rock and roll and pop music in general was built on the very foundation of sex and rebellion.... >> you know, people keep saying this, but i don't hear it. maybe you mean back in the days of Little Richard, Chuck Berry, and the like? PJK please don't hate me because i can't type..... - --- All the cool kids are doing it: HTTP://www.EvilSponge.org ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 11:39:17 EDT From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Coil (was MARS) In a message dated 8/28/03 10:34:43 AM Central Daylight Time, postlibyan@netzero.com writes: > << rock and roll and pop music in general was built on the very foundation of > sex and rebellion.... >> > > you know, people keep saying this, but i don't hear it. maybe you mean back > in the days of Little Richard, Chuck Berry, and the like? > > PJK > you are kidding, right??? RL ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 11:40:54 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Coil (was MARS) Robert, All I'm saying is that the post-TG scenesters (Coil, Current 93, NWW, Whitehouse, Death in June etc) share, to a greater or lesser degree, interests that were roadmapped by TG and which over the passage of time seem increasingly absurd. S&M, Concentration camps, serial killers, magic(k), satanism, vague mysticism, Burroughs/Gysin etc etc, which IMO does nothing to enhance the contents of the records. It has nothing to do with straight/gay, pop/rebellion etc. Just a load of vaguely "camp" (in a loose sense) cliches. Note "to a greater or lesser degree" in my statement before you start banging off replies defending NWW on this count. Compare and contrast the aforementioned with, say, Dome or BCG's work, which is open-ended as regards interpretation, and doesn't rely on any mystic(k)al road map. Interestingly, most of the people I knew who were big into the 'post-TG' scene didn't get Dome at all. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 11:43:47 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Coil (was MARS) > >>hmmm...that's funny....Beyonce,Britney, Christina, and that fat-ass J-Lo > seem to hypnotize a whole lot of idiots into buying their records (though i > can't understand why)....<< Hmm...size-ist? > >>and their clothing lines > and their make-up > and go to their stupid movies > > and it sure isn't because they're talented<< By what yardstick? Mark ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 15:44:12 GMT From: P J Kane Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Coil (was MARS) << you are kidding, right??? >> no. i do not find music to be "sexy" or what have you. could be the types of things i listen to though.... do people find Wire to be "sexy"? PJK please don't hate me because i can't type..... - --- All the cool kids are doing it: HTTP://www.EvilSponge.org ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 11:51:10 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Coil (was MARS) > >>no. i do not find music to be "sexy" or what have you. could be the > types of things i listen to though....<< Try Barry White! Mark ;-) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 11:57:10 EDT From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Coil (was MARS) In a message dated 8/28/03 10:46:05 AM Central Daylight Time, postlibyan@netzero.com writes: > << you are kidding, right??? >> > > no. i do not find music to be "sexy" or what have you. could be the types > of things i listen to though.... > > do people find Wire to be "sexy"? > > PJK > who said anything about being sexy??? most rock music isn't...but rock and pop's foundations are built from sex and rebellion...it's mostly music for young people with raging hormones.... c'mon...most rock and pop songs are about love or fucking or a combination of the two... RL ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 12:03:53 EDT From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Coil (was MARS) In a message dated 8/28/03 10:40:54 AM Central Daylight Time, Mark Bursa writes: > All I'm saying is that the post-TG scenesters (Coil, Current 93, NWW, > Whitehouse, Death in June etc) share, to a greater or lesser degree, > interests that were roadmapped by TG and which over the passage of time seem > increasingly absurd. S&M, Concentration camps, serial killers, magic(k), > satanism, vague mysticism, Burroughs/Gysin etc etc, "magic(k)" is no more absurd than Jesus, Brit-pop, fake-tits, or Reality TV....... RL np- The Hope Blister - "Smile's OK" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 16:07:18 GMT From: P J Kane Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Coil (was MARS) << who said anything about being sexy??? >> that was me. i guess i mis-interpreted what you were saying. << most rock music isn't...but rock and pop's foundations are built from sex and rebellion...it's mostly music for young people with raging hormones.... >> i thought that most of the people on this were older. i am in my early 30's, and do not really have "raging hormones". and from what little i can remember of those years, EVERYTHING was about sex. << c'mon...most rock and pop songs are about love or fucking or a combination of the two... >> really? firstly i do not listen to lyrics. perhaps because they are mostly about love (a term which i believe to be a load of bollocks as you Brits would say) and secondly, well, i just find that hard to believe. btu then again i don't pay attention to the words 9and am consciously seeking out more and more instrumental music as i age), so you may be right and i would never know it... but i think the lesson here is: anything can be about sex, if you want it to. music is about .... nothing really, except what _i_ put into it. i put no sex into my music. and to bring us full circle, an act that makes music wiht really really blatant sexuality (such that i cannot ignore it) is going to annoy me very fast. examples: Right Said Fred, Frankie goes to Hollywood, Moldy Peaches. PJK please don't hate me because i can't type..... - --- All the cool kids are doing it: HTTP://www.EvilSponge.org ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V6 #254 *******************************