From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V6 #250 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Monday, August 25 2003 Volume 06 : Number 250 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [idealcopy] Live Wire ["Jan J Noorda" ] [idealcopy] Project Dark ["Jan J Noorda" ] Re: [idealcopy] Live Wire ["Keith Astbury" ] Re: [idealcopy] Live Wire [PaulRabjohn@aol.com] [idealcopy] music journalist dead ["Keith Astbury" ] Re: [idealcopy] Re: idealcopy-digest V6 #249 ["dan bailey" ] RE: [idealcopy] Re: go4 ["Keith Knight" ] RE: [idealcopy] britpop twitches? ["Keith Knight" Subject: [idealcopy] Live Wire New dates mentioned on the IBD-booking WIRE 30.08. Hasselt-Pukkelpop Festival / B 04.10. Madrid-Experimenta Club 2003/ Festival-E 03.10. Barcelona- Nitsa Club / Spain 04.10. Madrid-Experimental Club / Festival / Spain 08.10. CATANIA @ Zr / Italy 09.10. ROMA @ Init / Italy 10.10. SAN DONA' DI PIAVE (VE) @ Mithos Rock Club / Italy 11.10. RIMINI @ Velvet Rock Club / Italy 12.10. MARINA DI MASSA (MS) @ Baraonda / Italy ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2003 12:36:36 +0200 From: "Jan J Noorda" Subject: [idealcopy] Project Dark The following is mentioned to a new release Project Dark: Grammaphone De Luxe on a new label Phono-Erotic distibited by Post-Everything Guest re-mixer Bruce Gilbert (Wire) transforms the sounds of a Log Single in the elegiac 'Treizinnerhume' and Kevin Younger (50 Watts of Power) adds his musical saw skills to 'Vincent Price and his Worm Wurlitzer', a track that somehow escaped from Brighton Pier before it was too late. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2003 13:45:22 +0100 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Live Wire Hmmmm. Barcelona, Madrid, Rome.... Sounds like the boys have hand-picked these dates! Perhaps this is a good time for the northern contingent to point out that Manchester is a pretty cool city these days and Liverpool has been voted the latest 'city of culture'. This way Wire get to sample a couple of great UK cities, and I get to cut down on my train fares ; ) Keith NP wire - drill (live) - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jan J Noorda" To: "IC" Sent: Monday, August 25, 2003 11:36 AM Subject: [idealcopy] Live Wire > New dates mentioned on the IBD-booking > > WIRE > 30.08. Hasselt-Pukkelpop Festival / B > 04.10. Madrid-Experimenta Club 2003/ Festival-E > 03.10. Barcelona- Nitsa Club / Spain > 04.10. Madrid-Experimental Club / Festival / Spain > 08.10. CATANIA @ Zr / Italy > 09.10. ROMA @ Init / Italy > 10.10. SAN DONA' DI PIAVE (VE) @ Mithos Rock Club / Italy > 11.10. RIMINI @ Velvet Rock Club / Italy > 12.10. MARINA DI MASSA (MS) @ Baraonda / Italy ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2003 08:46:50 EDT From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Live Wire In a message dated 8/25/03 1:43:17 PM GMT Daylight Time, keith.astbury10@virgin.net writes: > Hmmmm. Barcelona, Madrid, Rome.... Sounds like the boys have hand-picked > these dates! ////////hmm , mediterannean europe in the sunny autumn? i went out from birmingham to milan mid-june on flybe , #16 each way :-) cheaper than a train from liverpool to london and a lot more fun.... p ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2003 14:22:59 +0100 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: [idealcopy] music journalist dead Just read that music writer/Beatles author Ian MacDonald has died, having apparently committed suicide. I wasn't a fan of his writing myself - I don't really remember his 70's NME stuff, so I know his writing more from his latterday pieces with Mojo and Uncut - but I know AT Keith for one was. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2003 14:49:10 +0100 From: Andrew Walkingshaw Subject: Re: [idealcopy] britpop twitches? On Mon, Aug 25, 2003 at 01:58:25AM +0100, Tim wrote: > Bill swears by this Yeah Yeah Bollocks stuff but to my ears its basically > just another shouty punkoid tribute band. > Its the New Wave of New Wave of New Wave. Again. Okay, this is a logical non-sequitur which is really beginning to get to me. Assume, for one moment, that you're somewhere between the ages of 15 and 23 (conveniently including me, by about a year). This means you, in all likelihood, started seriously getting into music at some point between 1995 - the crest of Britpop, and now. You therefore have no knowledge, unless you're a muso historian type like yours truly, of New Wave of New Wave, or even of the New Wave itself - it was before your time. Then this really scratchy, fizzy, underproduced but *exciting* music hits your ears - the Strokes, the Yeah Yeah Yeahs, Liars, Radio 4, and in the UK the army of nouveau-New-Wave bands epitomised by McLusky, Ikara Colt, et al. All of a sudden, there'd be music which you could both care about, and which made you want to dance; to tell all your friends about it; to get involved, in much the same way that punk and post-punk did for people in the late 70s. The fact it's not "innovative" doesn't matter a tuppenny damn to you - you never heard the originals, so in *your* cultural context it's entirely novel. That's the effect this music is having for people. Concepts of artistic purity can go and conceptualize their navel some more, because they're simply not relevant when assessing the impact of music - - the only key is to be strikingly different to the current cultural context. The new wave of new wave of new wave, crucially, is - and it's already mutating into even more interesting forms; the aforementioned McLusky and Ikara Colt being the bands I have highest hopes for of the British lot (yeah, I'm a fan...). Sure, if you believe in pop music as some pure form of artistic statement, you'll disagree: I don't, though. Pop music, in its basest form (something which Wire, for example, have consciously tried to transcend - so therefore assessing them by this metric would be flawed and unfair), is a thing of society - it doesn't have to be right forever, it just has to be right *now*. Criticising an inherently disposable form of music for being inherently disposable is disingenuous at best. - - Andrew - -- home - email: andrew@lexical.org.uk http://www.lexical.org.uk/ work - email: adw27@esc.cam.ac.uk http://www.esc.cam.ac.uk/ radio: http://www.cur1350.co.uk/ blog: http://www.lexical.org.uk/blog/ "/Peep/". 'Yes?' "More cooookiessssss..." ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2003 10:05:38 EDT From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] britpop twitches? In a message dated 8/24/03 7:59:47 PM Central Daylight Time, tim@kidsindestructible.com writes: > Bill swears by this Yeah Yeah Bollocks stuff but to my ears its basically > just another shouty punkoid tribute band. > Its the New Wave of New Wave of New Wave. Again. ahh.....just what the list needed, nothin' like a little game of RISK !...haven't had one in a while....this'll surely break up the boredom... RL n.p. - Marc & the Mambas "Mother Fist...and Her Five Daughters" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2003 16:17:48 +0000 From: "Jason Rogers" Subject: [idealcopy] Re: idealcopy-digest V6 #249 >Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2003 17:07:45 EDT >From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com >Subject: [idealcopy] britpop twitches? > >tomorow night bbc2 has a 90 minute show about britpop called "live >forever". >i presume this is the same thing just released on DVD , which got good >reviews. seems like the party line on britpop now is that is was pretty >tragic >(there's also a well reviewed book covering similar ground) , could have >sworn all >these same publications milked it for all it was worth at the time. suspect >wire get at least a namecheck (they deserve one....). the dadrockers aside >, i >think some good music got made back then. and i'd certainly rather hear >elastica >than the desperately poor yeah yeah yeahs (nouveau hazel o'connor? or is >that >nina hagen? just what i needed , i think not). as i heard somebody say , >the >only time in history 35 year olds were listening to the same stuff as their >15 >year old kids. not sure if that's actually a good thing now i think about >it.......... > Lots of great stuff from that time period. I've long held the opinion that British bands kicked American bands in the tail during most of the 1990's. I'd take Suede, Elastica, and The Verve over Candlebox, Gin Blossoms, or even Pearl Jam any day of the week. I have the most affinity for the shoegazer phenomenon that occurred just before the emergence of Britpop, but I still enjoy most of the Britpop bands from that time. (I'm also of the belief that the shoegazer phenomenon owes something to Wire's "A Touching Display", but that's another topic for another line of discussion.) Oasis gets kicked around a lot now, but I still love the first Oasis album, Definitely Maybe. After years of listening to flannel-clad American bands like Pearl Jam mope about the downside of stardom and about how they only wanted to be normal, the first Oasis album made rock star hotel parties, drunken brawls, and sex with random actresses seem almost virtuous. Oasis is a bit tired now, of course, but that first album was a breath of fresh air back in 1994/1995 when I was in college. I've thought about ordering an import copy of the Live Forever soundtrack, but I already own most the material that I like from it. Jason Now Playing: Kraftwerk - "Elektro Kardiogramm" _________________________________________________________________ Get MSN 8 and enjoy automatic e-mail virus protection. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2003 12:57:27 EDT From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: idealcopy-digest V6 #249 In a message dated 8/25/03 11:21:51 AM Central Daylight Time, inspectorjason@hotmail.com writes: > Lots of great stuff from that time period. I've long held the opinion > that British bands kicked American bands in the tail during most of the > 1990's. I'd take Suede, Elastica, and The Verve over Candlebox, Gin > Blossoms, or even Pearl Jam any day of the week. I have the most > affinity for the shoegazer phenomenon that occurred just before the > emergence of Britpop, but I still enjoy most of the Britpop bands from that > time. (I'm also of the belief that the shoegazer phenomenon owes > something to Wire's "A Touching Display", but that's another topic for > another line of discussion.) for some good old Brit-pap bashing check out Graeme Rowland's review (last review on the page) of "People Are Cruel" by Mower, on the brainwashed.com website: THE BRAIN - VIRUS, YOU'RE A KILLA, YOU'RE A THRILLA, GONNA KNOCK YOU OUT! RL np- Volcano the Bear - "One Burned Ma" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2003 14:02:08 EDT From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: idealcopy-digest V6 #249 In a message dated 8/25/03 5:59:13 PM GMT Daylight Time, RLynn9@aol.com writes: > for some good old Brit-pap bashing check out Graeme Rowland's review (last > review on the page) of "People Are Cruel" by Mower, on the brainwashed.com > website: THE BRAIN - > VIRUS, YOU'RE A KILLA, YOU'RE A THRILLA, GONNA KNOCK YOU OUT! > /////oooohh , he's not keen is he? i actually know the guitarist's dad but i've never heard mower , i always imagined they were along the lines of mccluskey. poor old graham coxon (whose label they're on) would no doubt be mortified at the accusations of retro / duff britpop . seems like GR is firmly in the anti-britpop camp , no surprise there...... p ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2003 14:09:48 EDT From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] britpop twitches? In a message dated 8/25/03 1:59:47 AM GMT Daylight Time, tim@kidsindestructible.com writes: > I don't know...some 15 year olds in 1983 would have been listening to the > Doors and the Velvets and Love > /////i think the thing about britpop was that it sold big amounts , got in the charts , TOTP etc whereas the 83 versions of those acts above were still pretty "underground" > > > > Certainly got blanket good reviews... Did it sell though? Anyone got any > stats? ///// i don't think anybody has ever posted sales stats of anything here.......pity cos they'd make fascinating reading i'm sure..... > > > > > Nah.....I'd rather hear new stuff. > But as ever no-one knows whats coming next. Could be a more fully-formed > album with a more varied musical palate than the relentless dugga of > Send...could be another 3 years of inactivity. I don't see much more mileage > in the High-Velocity Wire of Send.....time to move on. > //////well in the time since my first post we have new gigs announced so i guess we'll get to see for ourselves. another UK warm up date maybe? as ever , i'm sure there'll be change but i wouldn't like to predict quite what. but you're probably right that its time to move on and i'd guess the band agree. p ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2003 14:34:55 EDT From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] britpop twitches? In a message dated 8/25/03 2:50:36 PM GMT Daylight Time, andrew-wire@lexical.org.uk writes: > Then this really scratchy, fizzy, underproduced but *exciting* music > hits your ears - the Strokes, the Yeah Yeah Yeahs, Liars, Radio 4, and > in the UK the army of nouveau-New-Wave bands epitomised by McLusky, > Ikara Colt, et al. All of a sudden, there'd be music which you could > both care about, and which made you want to dance; to tell all your > friends about it; to get involved, in much the same way that punk and > post-punk did for people in the late 70s. The fact it's not > "innovative" doesn't matter a tuppenny damn to you - you never heard > the originals, so in *your* cultural context it's entirely novel. > ///// i see your point andrew. like many (most?) here i'm in the 35-45 age group so you can't listen to these acts without instantly comparing to the groups they borrow from (in some cases to the verge of parody). if they sound like a pale comparison then i'd rather dismiss it and move on , to me it's pointless and i'll go and look for something fresh instead. i wouldn't expect an 18 year old to see it this way , and nor should he/she either. so coming at it with fresher ears , do you see those bands you've listed as making music that stands up to the acts of 20-odd years ago? funny to think that the vast majority of rapture fans must never have heard the GO4 or the pop group , be a big surprise for them when they do :-) interesting piece in last month's "uncut" where barney hoskins really slated the whole post-punk scene , both the original version and the current "tribute acts". sure he liked it once , but now he dismisses the likes of the GO4/23 skidoo/scriitis as pretty worthless and the new bands as worse. though bizarrely he selects interpol as the one worthy act of this type (so that's Go4 crap , interpol great ; suspect he'll struggle to find too many others agreeing with him there). mind you , in the same issue he writes a lengthy eulogy to steely dan so maybe that's an idea of where his head's at. i reckon what we'll get now is a return to bigger , sweeping gesture type music (ie 81 moves to 83). somehow i think we'll be seeing the "new smiths" all too soon. p ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2003 19:54:15 +0100 From: Andrew Walkingshaw Subject: Re: [idealcopy] britpop twitches? On Mon, Aug 25, 2003 at 02:34:55PM -0400, PaulRabjohn@aol.com wrote: > so coming at it with fresher ears , do you see those bands you've > listed as making music that stands up to the acts of 20-odd years > ago? funny to think that the vast majority of rapture fans must > never have heard the GO4 or the pop group , be a big surprise for > them when they do :-) I like McLusky, Ikara Colt, and Liars (in particular) a lot: the Yeah Yeah Yeahs' best stuff is on the Master EP, and the album pales a bit by comparison. I'm a complete sucker for acidic indieish guitar pop, and they're all very good examples of the genre. Sure, it's derivative as hell, but it's fun. I don't think that McLusky have equalled "Surfer Rosa", to cite their main influence, and the Liars haven't equalled "Entertainment!" - but there's a chance they might later. "Chat and Business", Ikara Colt's album, is in hock to the Fall up to their eyeballs - but they have a command of dynamics and (to be completely honest) a way with a tune and a barbed lyric which has a hell of a lot of appeal for me. To be honest, they sound broadly similar - and I don't really have the ability to feel emotionally that it's a theft, given that I heard both the originals and the copies at the same time and therefore my reaction to both is similar. The equivalent point is probably whether you were really shocked when you heard the Velvet Underground - I know I wasn't, and I doubt you were, because you'd have heard so much music indebted to their work before you first heard them. > i reckon what we'll get now is a return to bigger , sweeping gesture > type music (ie 81 moves to 83). somehow i think we'll be seeing the > "new smiths" all too soon. p We're already there. Doves' "The Last Broadcast" and the aforementioned Interpol are on the way there - but Elbow's new album, "Cast of Thousands", is one I can see opening the floodgates in this regard. I'm kind of disappointed with it really - I preferred "Asleep in the Back", which is a record I love. - - Andrew (sink / sink Venice!) - -- home - email: andrew@lexical.org.uk http://www.lexical.org.uk/ work - email: adw27@esc.cam.ac.uk http://www.esc.cam.ac.uk/ radio: http://www.cur1350.co.uk/ blog: http://www.lexical.org.uk/blog/ "/Peep/". 'Yes?' "More cooookiessssss..." ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2003 20:09:20 +0100 From: "Keith Knight" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] music journalist dead Jesus, this is grim news. I was a fan indeed, as I've mentioned here before. Quite apart from Revolution in the Head - a book of such worth it made me listen to The Beatles afresh and LIKE them and appreciate what they achieved more than I had ever done previously - MacDonald was one of the cornerstones of the NME from around 72 - 76 (recollection is that he took a backseat once punk kicked in), still probably its glory time (although I'm prepared to extend that time from 72 - 81). He was given the length to expound on albums and bands and did so in a cool, intelligent style. He was never one of the glitterati like Nick Kent or CSM. He had a training in music I'd guess, and could apply this to what was going on in a way that few other critics could. Thirty years later I can recall some of his reviews - his forensic dissection of Hergest Ridge (at a time when Mike Oldfield was the bees' knees), his rave for On the Beach (recently rereviewed by him in Uncut I think), his great review of Station to Station which put into perspective Bowie's career and his bizarre review of Polanski's 'What?', which he enjoyed more than Chinatown. And owners of The Faust Tapes can find his piece on the cover, comparing the first Faust album with A Day in the Life. And he came back in the last five years or so with intelligent pieces in Mojo and Uncut, which I would always take time to read. A collection of these has just been published, which I haven't got and now feel the need to. It got great reviews, which makes his death even sadder. This really is upsetting. Another the Keith - -----Original Message----- From: owner-idealcopy@smoe.org [mailto:owner-idealcopy@smoe.org] On Behalf Of Keith Astbury Sent: 25 August 2003 14:23 To: idealcopy@smoe.org Subject: [idealcopy] music journalist dead Just read that music writer/Beatles author Ian MacDonald has died, having apparently committed suicide. I wasn't a fan of his writing myself - I don't really remember his 70's NME stuff, so I know his writing more from his latterday pieces with Mojo and Uncut - but I know AT Keith for one was. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2003 19:12:43 +0000 From: "Kevin Trowel" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] britpop twitches? >i reckon what we'll get now is a return to bigger , sweeping gesture type >music (ie 81 moves to 83). somehow i think we'll be seeing the "new smiths" >all >too soon. p I definitely agree with this - I've seen some bands that are definitely mining the "big music" (as THE WATERBOYS' Mike Scott called it) vein. It seems like mixing the current obsession with 'angular post punk' with the stadium sized choruses of U2 or, uh, BIG COUNTRY is the next move. See LONGWAVE for more on that. It also makes sense as a reaction to the purportedly stripped down sound of the WHITE STRIPES, HIVES, etc. The pendulum definitely seems to be swinging away from r'n'r minimalism and back to the maximalism of the aforementioned 'big music' practitioners. I'm 27, so GO4 and The Pop Group were before my time. Luckily (it seems to me, anyway) I got into those bands before that sound became the 'new thing.' I'm pretty sure that one reason I can enjoy older (and defunct) bands more is because I don't have to deal with their personalities. Sadly, the current crop of 'post punk' bands are pretentious in a way that is truly disheartening. On the other hand, I'm not in any danger of picking up a copy of SPIN only to find Mark Stewart or Andy Gill going on about their 'art'. And that's the way I like it - I can enjoy the music without having to consider all the extraneous stuff that comes along with being in a band. I'm sure this comes from having worked in the music 'biz' for awhile. As they say: If you like law or sausages, don't go to where they're made. >From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com >To: andrew-wire@lexical.org.uk, idealcopy@smoe.org >Subject: Re: [idealcopy] britpop twitches? >Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2003 14:34:55 EDT > >In a message dated 8/25/03 2:50:36 PM GMT Daylight Time, >andrew-wire@lexical.org.uk writes: > > > Then this really scratchy, fizzy, underproduced but *exciting* music > > hits your ears - the Strokes, the Yeah Yeah Yeahs, Liars, Radio 4, and > > in the UK the army of nouveau-New-Wave bands epitomised by McLusky, > > Ikara Colt, et al. All of a sudden, there'd be music which you could > > both care about, and which made you want to dance; to tell all your > > friends about it; to get involved, in much the same way that punk and > > post-punk did for people in the late 70s. The fact it's not > > "innovative" doesn't matter a tuppenny damn to you - you never heard > > the originals, so in *your* cultural context it's entirely novel. > > > >///// i see your point andrew. like many (most?) here i'm in the 35-45 age >group so you can't listen to these acts without instantly comparing to the >groups they borrow from (in some cases to the verge of parody). if they >sound like >a pale comparison then i'd rather dismiss it and move on , to me it's >pointless and i'll go and look for something fresh instead. i wouldn't >expect an 18 >year old to see it this way , and nor should he/she either. > >so coming at it with fresher ears , do you see those bands you've listed as >making music that stands up to the acts of 20-odd years ago? funny to think >that the vast majority of rapture fans must never have heard the GO4 or the >pop >group , be a big surprise for them when they do :-) > >interesting piece in last month's "uncut" where barney hoskins really >slated >the whole post-punk scene , both the original version and the current >"tribute >acts". sure he liked it once , but now he dismisses the likes of the GO4/23 >skidoo/scriitis as pretty worthless and the new bands as worse. though >bizarrely he selects interpol as the one worthy act of this type (so that's >Go4 crap , >interpol great ; suspect he'll struggle to find too many others agreeing >with >him there). mind you , in the same issue he writes a lengthy eulogy to >steely >dan so maybe that's an idea of where his head's at. > >i reckon what we'll get now is a return to bigger , sweeping gesture type >music (ie 81 moves to 83). somehow i think we'll be seeing the "new smiths" >all >too soon. p _________________________________________________________________ Get MSN 8 and enjoy automatic e-mail virus protection. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2003 15:41:25 EDT From: Eardrumbuz@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] britpop twitches? In a message dated 8/25/03 2:37:25 PM, PaulRabjohn@aol.com writes: >somehow i think we'll be seeing the "new smiths" all >too soon. p or a resurfacing of wild swans? another the p www.mp3.com/winteracademy ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2003 15:46:51 EDT From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] britpop twitches? In a message dated 8/25/03 7:55:18 PM GMT Daylight Time, andrew-wire@lexical.org.uk writes: > >i reckon what we'll get now is a return to bigger , sweeping gesture > >type music (ie 81 moves to 83). somehow i think we'll be seeing the > >"new smiths" all too soon. p > > We're already there. Doves' "The Last Broadcast" and the aforementioned > Interpol are on the way there - but Elbow's new album, "Cast of Thousands", > is one I can see opening the floodgates in this regard. > ///////// well clearly the doves (and shack , their close cousins) appeal massively to fans of the bunnymen etc. but what they don't have is that morissey/bono/kerr "big ego" up front to turn them into mega stadium acts. as soon as somebody suitable appears , i really fear the worse. elbow are too subtle , likewise grandaddy. my nightmare is a sort of coldplay-meets-oasis (or is that simple minds??????) worried of drotwich ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2003 20:58:41 +0100 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: idealcopy-digest V6 #249 >poor old graham coxon (whose label they're on) would no doubt be mortified > at the accusations of retro / duff britpop . seems like GR is firmly in the > anti-britpop camp , no surprise there...... > > p Picked up Coxon's last LP Kiss of the Morning (the one with Song for the sick on!) cheap a few wks back, and have to say I was pleasantly surprised. Going back to this new/old/retro thread, I don't think the albums by the likes of The Rapture and Radio 4 are classics by any means, but there's definitely promise. And as House of Jealous Lovers was such a huge leap from the ....Races mini-LP, then maybe they'll deliver with the forthcoming one. Mind you, I'm not convinced that Entertainment is as great as everyone makes out (though before I hear the Boo's I should add I like it!). I loved the first couple of singles, but was never convinced that they hadn't peaked before they made an album. (I pretty much gave up on them after that though for some reason I bought Hard, which is actually pretty under-rated imo) andrew >The equivalent point is probably whether >you were really shocked when you heard the Velvet Underground - I know I >wasn't, and I doubt you were, because you'd have heard so much music >indebted to their work before you first heard them. I don't remember Elvis in his rock'n'roll period, but I was still pretty shocked when I heard Shakin' Stevens ; ) Keith np Julian - 20 mothers ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2003 15:58:33 EDT From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: idealcopy-digest V6 #249 In a message dated 8/25/03 8:56:18 PM GMT Daylight Time, keith.astbury10@virgin.net writes: > Mind you, I'm not convinced that Entertainment is as great as everyone > makes > out (though before I hear the Boo's I should add I like it!). I loved the > first couple of singles, but was never convinced that they hadn't peaked > before they made an album. (I pretty much gave up on them after that though > for some reason I bought Hard, which is actually pretty under-rated imo) ////////ah keith , its great. you heard the peel sessions? p ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2003 21:03:35 +0100 From: Andrew Walkingshaw Subject: Re: [idealcopy] britpop twitches? On Mon, Aug 25, 2003 at 03:46:51PM -0400, PaulRabjohn@aol.com wrote: > morissey/bono/kerr "big ego" up front to turn them into mega stadium > acts. as soon as somebody suitable appears , i really fear the > worse. elbow are too subtle , likewise grandaddy. my nightmare is a > sort of coldplay-meets-oasis (or is that simple minds??????) Actually, Chris Martin is getting there. Fear the outcome of the Chris Martin / Gwyneth Paltrow marriage. (Is that a sign of the apocalypse?) - - Andrew - -- email: andrew@lexical.org.uk http://www.lexical.org.uk/ Earth Sciences, University of Cambridge http://www.esc.cam.ac.uk/ DJ, CUR1350 - http://www.cur1350.co.uk/ blog: http://www.lexical.org.uk/blog/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2003 16:07:13 EDT From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] britpop twitches? In a message dated 8/25/03 9:04:20 PM GMT Daylight Time, andrew-wire@lexical.org.uk writes: > Actually, Chris Martin is getting there. Fear the outcome of the Chris > Martin / Gwyneth Paltrow marriage. > > (Is that a sign of the apocalypse?) > > ///////////god no , to go bigtime he needs to ROCK , not simper wimpily. he might be the new gilbert o'sullivan but he sure is never going to be bono (and this , believe me , is faint praise). p ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2003 17:11:45 +0100 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] britpop twitches? > > Bill swears by this Yeah Yeah Bollocks stuff but to my ears its basically > > just another shouty punkoid tribute band. > > Its the New Wave of New Wave of New Wave. Again. > > Okay, this is a logical non-sequitur which is really beginning to get > to me. Sit down and take the weight off your feet, young man. You've obviously been working too hard ; ) > Assume, for one moment, that you're somewhere between the ages of 15 > and 23 (conveniently including me, by about a year). This means you, > in all likelihood, started seriously getting into music at some point > between 1995 - the crest of Britpop, and now. I was in my mid-30's when Britpop was at it's peak and it was fine with me, Andrew. There was a lot of crap admittedly (OCS - yuk!), but isn't that always the way? I'm in the minority here I guess, but I thought early Oasis were exciting (I loved Supersonic!), Blur made some fab pop singles and Pulp had perhaps the best pop star front man since Moz. And even the generally awful Sleeper made the odd half decent 45! It was an exciting, fun period for pop music - far better than the Pop Stars manufactured stuff we're force fed today. I don't think we should let our world weary cynicism (and disappointment with how certain acts turned out?) get in the way of how we view something that happened 7-8 yrs ago. I like pop music and I wish we had bands that good dominating the charts nowadays. The Strokes might have made some really good singles, but for all their chart success, they were pretty much on their own. They certainly weren't - alas - fighting over the number one spot with fellow New Yorkers ARE Weapons! (BTW Did anyone read the Strokes article in this months MOJO. I like them, but what a dull read that was) As for the YYY's....Well I don't think they're the saviours of music by any means, but their first e.p. was great. And the LP is pretty good too. Some great shouty pop stuff to start off with, and some fine more heartfelt stuff as the (interestingly paced) album progresses. I don't get the Hazel O'Connor reference at all to be honest - Wendy looks more like Fay Fife if you ask me!. But musically, I think the YYY's are more early Banshees (or Fatal Microbes!) than Hazel's overblown sax soaked pap. > Criticising an inherently > disposable form of music for being inherently disposable is > disingenuous at best. Take two tablets now, and repeat dose after six hours. Keith ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2003 16:33:51 EDT From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] britpop twitches? In a message dated 8/25/03 9:13:26 PM GMT Daylight Time, keith.astbury10@virgin.net writes: > > I was in my mid-30's when Britpop was at it's peak and it was fine with me, > Andrew. There was a lot of crap admittedly (OCS - yuk!), but isn't that > always the way? I'm in the minority here I guess, but I thought early Oasis > were exciting (I loved Supersonic!), Blur made some fab pop singles and Pulp > had perhaps the best pop star front man since Moz. And even the generally > awful Sleeper made the odd half decent 45! ///////supersonic was indeed their peak. lyrically they never went that way again. however , sleeper were 100% garbage , the worst band of that era. absolutely appalling. > > It was an exciting, fun period for pop music - far better than the Pop Stars > manufactured stuff we're force fed today. I don't think we should let our > world weary cynicism (and disappointment with how certain acts turned out?) > get in the way of how we view something that happened 7-8 yrs ago. I like > pop music and I wish we had bands that good dominating the charts nowadays. > The Strokes might have made some really good singles, but for all their > chart success, they were pretty much on their own. They certainly weren't - > alas - fighting over the number one spot with fellow New Yorkers ARE > Weapons! > > (BTW Did anyone read the Strokes article in this months MOJO. I like them, > but what a dull read that was) ////// a lengthy yawn if ever there was one. do they have anything worth saying at all? sorry , they pass me by completely. you got high hopes for this album then? > > As for the YYY's....Well I don't think they're the saviours of music by any > means, but their first e.p. was great. And the LP is pretty good too. Some > great shouty pop stuff to start off with, and some fine more heartfelt stuff > as the (interestingly paced) album progresses. I don't get the Hazel > O'Connor reference at all to be honest - Wendy looks more like Fay Fife if > you ask me!. But musically, I think the YYY's are more early Banshees (or > Fatal Microbes!) than Hazel's overblown sax soaked pap. > > /////i meant the over-the-top stage act rather than her looks. can't hear > the banshees there , they were interesting and original , 2 adjectives i'd > never apply to wendy & co. p ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2003 16:34:51 -0500 From: "dan bailey" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: go4 >Mind you, I'm not convinced that Entertainment is as great as everyone makes >out (though before I hear the Boo's I should add I like it!). I loved the >first couple of singles, but was never convinced that they hadn't peaked >before they made an album. (I pretty much gave up on them after that though >for some reason I bought Hard, which is actually pretty under-rated imo) oh, keith ... the horror, the horror. next you'll be touting barry blue or the rubettes over bolan -- i just know it. dan np: brother d with collective effort, how we gonna make the black nation rise? (utterly delighted to have found this -- possibly the first ever example of politicized rap, released a couple of years before the message -- last week on a '96 k-tel rap comp i'd never even heard of ... had been looking for the song for something like 21 years.) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2003 16:37:46 -0500 From: "dan bailey" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: idealcopy-digest V6 #249 >> Mind you, I'm not convinced that Entertainment is as great as everyone >> makes >> out (though before I hear the Boo's I should add I like it!). I loved the >> first couple of singles, but was never convinced that they hadn't peaked >> before they made an album. (I pretty much gave up on them after that though >> for some reason I bought Hard, which is actually pretty under-rated imo) > >////////ah keith , its great. you heard the peel sessions? p "it" = entertainment or hard? i'm growing faint ... dan ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2003 18:22:13 EDT From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: idealcopy-digest V6 #249 In a message dated 8/25/03 10:38:30 PM GMT Daylight Time, dpbailey@worldnet.att.net writes: > "it" = entertainment or hard? i'm growing faint ... > > dan ////////entertainment of course..............i'd given up on them before the last 2 albums. the singles weren't bad , but they seemed out of time by then. i heard somebody claiming they were re-forming. did that happen? p ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2003 00:16:48 +0100 From: "Keith Knight" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] Re: GO4 That was a rumour I posted a few weeks back from a website - which also was the first place I heard of the Dexy's reformation, so maybe it will yet come true. Although I've seen nothing else... I'm with Mr Astbury on this one. Entertainment was a BIG disappointment at the time - it didn't come close to capturing the live sound which I'd experienced a number of times by then. The peel sessions was much more successful at that. They were so good live - I'm still replaying that OGWT snippet. Another the Keith - -----Original Message----- From: owner-idealcopy@smoe.org [mailto:owner-idealcopy@smoe.org] On Behalf Of PaulRabjohn@aol.com Sent: 25 August 2003 23:22 To: dpbailey@worldnet.att.net; idealcopy@smoe.org Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: idealcopy-digest V6 #249 In a message dated 8/25/03 10:38:30 PM GMT Daylight Time, dpbailey@worldnet.att.net writes: > "it" = entertainment or hard? i'm growing faint ... > > dan ////////entertainment of course..............i'd given up on them before the last 2 albums. the singles weren't bad , but they seemed out of time by then. i heard somebody claiming they were re-forming. did that happen? p ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2003 00:25:04 +0100 From: "Keith Knight" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] Re: go4 Well you should have said before Dan because I've got this somewhere (although Godknows where come to think of it). A great record - 'How we Gonna Make the Black Nation rise / when all we wanna do is dib-e-dib-e-dib-e-dize?' Hell of a groove too, from that great early 80s period when funk really delivered. I was fortunate enough to be sharing a house with a big funk fan at the time and he used to get a lot of stuff in - early Ze stuff, War, Gap Band, Money's Too Tight. We threw some good parties. Another the Keith - -----Original Message----- dan np: brother d with collective effort, how we gonna make the black nation rise? (utterly delighted to have found this -- possibly the first ever example of politicized rap, released a couple of years before the message -- last week on a '96 k-tel rap comp i'd never even heard of ... had been looking for the song for something like 21 years.) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2003 00:31:04 +0100 From: "Keith Knight" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] britpop twitches? - -----Original Message----- From: owner-idealcopy@smoe.org [mailto:owner-idealcopy@smoe.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Walkingshaw We're already there. Doves' "The Last Broadcast" and the aforementioned Interpol are on the way there - but Elbow's new album, "Cast of Thousands", is one I can see opening the floodgates in this regard. I'm kind of disappointed with it really - I preferred "Asleep in the Back", which is a record I love. - - Andrew (sink / sink Venice!) - -------------------- I've only played the new Elbow a couple of times in less than perfect listening conditions and I agree that I don't think it will reach 'Asleep in the Back' status for me but that was a wonderful album, honed over years, so perhaps 'Cast of Thousands' was on a hiding to nothing. I still think it's pretty good and expect it to be a grower. I'm having a similar reaction to the new Shack - 'HMS Fable' was another album of the year for me like 'Asleep in the Back' so 'Here's Tom with the Weather' has a mountain to climb. Another the Keith ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V6 #250 *******************************