From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V6 #199 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Tuesday, July 8 2003 Volume 06 : Number 199 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [idealcopy] Re: d+b [Tisbili@aol.com] [idealcopy] Brighton/hair [Ian_Brann@veritasdgc.com] Re: [idealcopy] Brighton/hair [Andrew Walkingshaw ] [idealcopy] Re: dnb [Ian Grant ] Re: [idealcopy] Re: dnb ["ian s jackson" ] Re: [idealcopy] Brighton/hair ["dan bailey" ] Re: [idealcopy] Brighton/hair ["ian s jackson" ] RE: [idealcopy] OT: Hope of the States ["Andrew Lumbard" ] [idealcopy] Re: Symphonic in Persuasion [Michael Flaherty Ian Grant says: > > You can't compare D&B to Opera and Country. > Thats like comparing Viaducts to Crabs and Sellotape. > > D&B was great. It was a truly British art form, a wonderful bastardisation > of different beatmaps. > > There are some great D&B LPs too. Omin Trio's debut (although it was a > compilation of 12s), 'Black Secret Technology' by A guy Called Gerald, all > the Photek stuff, The first 4 Spring Heel Jack LPs and 'Drum & Bass for > Papa' by Plug spring to mind. That wasn't Ian. That was me. Dnb, opera, and country all have adherents, but imo are genres, with a few exceptions, that are impossible to listen to. billE ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 13:28:25 +0100 From: Ian_Brann@veritasdgc.com Subject: [idealcopy] Brighton/hair "50% of wire are pretty much hair-free and thus i fail to see why baldness percentages in the audience up to and including this figure should be particularly noteworthy." A random sample of my two friends and I revealed a 2:1 ratio of baldness to those of a more hirsute physicality. Given the (unlikely) possibility of a syrup or two, you are looking at the possibility of 60-66% of Wire fans being - lets not mince words here - slapheads. Those entrepreneurs among us may consider setting up a woolly hat stall outside gigs, particularly during winter months.... Tee-hee! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 13:33:56 +0100 From: Andrew Walkingshaw Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Brighton/hair On Mon, Jul 07, 2003 at 01:28:25PM +0100, Ian_Brann@veritasdgc.com wrote: > Given the (unlikely) possibility of a syrup or two, you are looking > at the possibility of 60-66% of Wire fans being - lets not mince > words here - slapheads. Those entrepreneurs among us may consider > setting up a woolly hat stall outside gigs, particularly during > winter months.... Nah. Furniture polish. That way, on the rare performances of Drill, the miners' lamps will reflect off audience members' heads, improving the light show. :) "Take the Wire Pledge here!"[1] - - Andrew [1] Particularly Anglocentric joke: Pledge is a brand of beeswax polish... - -- home - email: andrew@lexical.org.uk | http://www.lexical.org.uk/ work - email: adw27@esc.cam.ac.uk | http://www.esc.cam.ac.uk/ "/Peep/". 'Yes?' "More cooookiessssss..." ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 11:18:27 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Brighton/hair > >>Given the (unlikely) possibility of a syrup or two, you are looking at > the > possibility of 60-66% of Wire fans being - lets not mince words here - > slapheads.<< There always seem to be a goodly number of cue balls in the crowd, but of the known IC members only a couple are slapheads. One or two others are on the way there; sadly no rugs or Ralph Coates combovers. Mark (a frankly luxuriant mane, if slightly tinged with grey. And all me own teeth). ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 11:36:47 -0700 From: Ed Special Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Brighton/hair On Monday, July 7, 2003, at 08:18 AM, MarkBursa@aol.com wrote: >>>> Given the (unlikely) possibility of a syrup or two, you are looking >>>> at >> the >> possibility of 60-66% of Wire fans being - lets not mince words here - >> slapheads.<< > > There always seem to be a goodly number of cue balls in the crowd, but > of the > known IC members only a couple are slapheads. One or two others are on > the > way there; sadly no rugs or Ralph Coates combovers. > > Mark (a frankly luxuriant mane, if slightly tinged with grey. And all > me own > teeth). Waist-length, short on top, silver, slightly tinged with dark brown. Own teeth. With an ingroinal hernia and kidney stone, but no health insurance. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 17:18:04 +0100 From: Ian Grant Subject: [idealcopy] Re: dnb At 04:30 07/07/03 -0400, BillE wrote: >I 'm not convinced by the argument that says "it works in the club but not at >home," which suggests to me that it is not so much actually listened to or >even necessary for the activity, as it is the background noise that >happens to >be on when you are on the floor. Well, my argument certainly isn't that d+b can't work at home. It can, if you're up for a bit of that kind of thing of an evening. My point was merely that, as far as I'm concerned, it works as a form that's targeted at the dancefloor and is listened to elsewhere and ultimately judged on those terms. Naturally, that can get a bit ridiculous - Dillinja's current stuff is perhaps suffering from the fact that it requires his monstrous self-built soundsystem to be heard as intended, for example. But it is, I think, the best way to approach it, whether as an artist or a listener. That's only my opinion, of course. As for the idea that it might just be background noise in a club, I don't buy that at all. On the contrary, the immediate reaction to a record is what decides its fate, a fairly ruthless system. If something is just background noise - and there's plenty of d+b that is, as with any genre - it'll be forgotten as soon as the next tune comes along to blow it away. Hell, it might not even get played in the first place. That does mean that you get crowd-pleasing d+b hits built from a reliable formula...but it also means that something creative (*and* crowd-pleasing) will be noticed and remembered. Listen to a few sets on breakbeat.co.uk and you'll be able to pick what'll live and what'll die in an instant (by identifying the former with the words "Jesus, what the hell is *this*?!", in my case). > I didn't go to Studio 54 and snort coke, but >any Giorgio Moroder or Afrika Bambaataa record still kicks it as much at home >as it does in the club. Fair enough. That's a matter of taste, I suppose. My clubbing days have pretty much gone, if they ever really existed in the first place, so it's not as if I'm buying records just to remind myself of memorable nights out. But I still find that there are d+b records that surprise and delight me, just as there are plenty that disappoint and bore me. Which is just as it should be, and just as it is with, say, hip-hop or electronica or whatever. >As for being a 10 year fan and only coming up with a compilation as >recommended listening, > >QED. Ha! :) Just to clarify, I was attempting to illustrate my general point with the observation that I can only think of one d+b *album* that'd I'd honestly recommend. There are several albums that I've enjoyed...but, in each case, the skip button tends to be employed regularly, for these things have a tendency to be hugely patchy. There are, of course, countless individual tracks and twelve inches that I've forced upon unfortunate friends and neighbours over the last decade and that I'd heartily recommend.... Cheers, ig. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 20:10:51 +0100 From: "ian s jackson" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: dnb hello all...here's me backing IanG up on the whole D&B thing again, i know, but... >Well, my argument certainly isn't that d+b can't work at home. of course, it *can* work at home...but unless you're a 'real' enthusiast, it WILL merely be used as a slightly more 'hip' background noise than the usual tripe...in other words, i'm talking...'coffee-table'... Roni Size winning the Mercury Music Prize was (probably) the death of D&B as an 'underground', 'vital' (whatever...) music...but iiirc, it was already starting to mellow out way before then, the Mercury win was merely confirmation...and this has obvious parallels with 'punk'...as soon as the ad agencies got hold of it...it was dead on it's arse...and HAD to be buried...back underground... thank you for your time...i also remember a particularly fine Ragga Twins Peel Session...which i still have a tape of somewhere... (^_^) ian.s.j. _________________________________________________________________ Sign-up for a FREE BT Broadband connection today! http://www.msn.co.uk/specials/btbroadband ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 14:26:35 -0500 From: "dan bailey" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Brighton/hair >Waist-length, short on top, silver, slightly tinged with dark brown. ummm ... that wouldn't be the mother of all mullets, would it? dan, fond of lots of pre-'75-or-so country music, has all of his own teeth (& a couple of caps beside) & enough hair (silver threads among the brown) to stuff a pillow ... ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 20:31:34 +0100 From: "ian s jackson" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Brighton/hair look........ can we just drop this hair thing right now....??????!!!! please....????? ian (receding and not touchy about it at all...) s.j. _________________________________________________________________ Get Hotmail on your mobile phone http://www.msn.co.uk/msnmobile ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 20:45:08 +0100 From: "Andrew Lumbard" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] OT: Hope of the States Mr Knight informed all >> Mr Lumbard and I were present at the marvellous Polyphonic Spree party >> at Cambridge Corn Exchange on Thursday Mrs Lumbard would like to point out that she, and Mrs Knight were also in attendance. Does the T-shirt fit? I would echo your comments about Hope of the States. Damn fine band. Swirly guitars & violin agter initial melodic guitar/vocal start. Reminiscent of Doves/Kitchens of Distinction for me. Quick mention of second on the bill, Mull Historical Society, who I thought gave a good performance battling against the microphonic elements. Stage space being a bit of a challenge when supporting the Spree. Not quite as indie as I remember from seeing him/them before. Bit more anthemic, but still belting out a good tune. AndyL NP - Danko Jones, someone's lent me it, and thinks I might like it. >> >> But third on the bill were Hope of the States, and you possibly (like me >> earlier in the week) haven't heard of them yet. Despite the name >> they're from Chichester (that's a town in Sussex, not exactly renowned >> for its rocknroll history). They already have a distinctive look - >> BSP-style American Civil war jackets and specially made films to >> accompany the songs - and have released one single, which sounds like a >> beautifully packaged thing but was only available in 1,000 copies. >> Their songs are long and tend to start melodically but soon turn into >> what I can only describe as a Branca-style soundwhirl. There were seven >> of them on stage (having borrowed a Spree violinist to augment their >> own) and they made an almighty racket. Highly impressive. Checking the >> web they are picking up rave reviews (new Radiohead, blah, blah) and are >> worth catching now in my opinion {1]. Highly impressive flash website >> too - http://www.hopeofthestates.com/flash/HopeOfTheStates.htm ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 16:00:37 -0400 From: Tisbili@aol.com Subject: [idealcopy] a fond farewell to barry white at his finest http://www.aprilwinchell.com/multimedia/media/mp3/barry.mp3 (late, I know, but it took me a while to find it again...) billE ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 16:04:18 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT: Hope of the States > >>Mrs Lumbard would like to point out that she, and Mrs Knight were also in > attendance. Does the T-shirt fit?<< I fear we may have the makings of our own Krazy Kult Korner here... An insightful review of the happy-clappy ones can be found in today's Grauniad... http://www.guardian.co.uk/arts/reviews/story/0,11712,992828,00.html With which it's frankly hard to argue.... though no doubt Keith 'n' Andy have now been suitably brainwashed!! > > >>I would echo your comments about Hope of the States. Damn fine band. > Swirly > guitars &violin agter initial melodic guitar/vocal start. Reminiscent of > Doves/Kitchens of Distinction for me.<< Ah, them again. I'm still struggling to understand what separates KoD from most other generic late-80s indie.... > >>Quick mention of second on the bill, Mull Historical Society, who I > thought > gave a good performance battling against the microphonic elements. Stage > space being a bit of a challenge when supporting the Spree. Not quite as > indie as I remember from seeing him/them before. Bit more anthemic, but > still belting out a good tune.<< > > Supported REM at Brixton too. All the elements of a decent pop band are > there, but somehow it just doesn't click. Bit session-man, bit too mid-paced, bit > too jolly. > > This has been a political broadcast on behalf of the curmudgeon party. > > Mark ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 21:28:40 +0100 From: "ian s jackson" Subject: [idealcopy] OT - for the hell of it..... NOW PLAYING........ FUCK - 'CONDUCT' ian.s.j. _________________________________________________________________ Use MSN Messenger to send music and pics to your friends http://www.msn.co.uk/messenger ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 22:30:50 +0200 From: Bart van Damme Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Brighton/Pilgrim Hair > enough hair (silver threads among the brown) to stuff a pillow ... Why does the Come On Pilgrim sleeve come to mind here? Bart ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 21:41:18 +0100 From: "ian s jackson" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT - for the hell of it..... > > NOW PLAYING........ > > > > FUCK - 'CONDUCT' > > >so? ;-P so 'fuck off'....hahahahha.......;-P _________________________________________________________________ Tired of 56k? Get a FREE BT Broadband connection http://www.msn.co.uk/specials/btbroadband ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 23:11:09 +0100 From: "Keith Knight" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] OT: Hope of the States Andy L wrote: > >>Mrs Lumbard would like to point out that she, and Mrs Knight were also in > attendance. - -------------- Indeed they were, although as Mrs Knight doesn't tend to lurk here (at least as far as I'm aware) I omitted to mention her attendance. Clearly Mrs Lumbard is more of a closet lister. - ------------------ Does the T-shirt fit? - ------------------- I should point out at this point that the T-shirt was purchased by Mrs Knight rather than me. And at least it wasn't a robe at twenty-five quid, although I dread to think what will happen next time she sees them. And it hasn't been modelled yet in my presence. The only band t-shirt I currently possess is a Faust one. - ----------------- Mark wrote: I fear we may have the makings of our own Krazy Kult Korner here... An insightful review of the happy-clappy ones can be found in today's Grauniad... http://www.guardian.co.uk/arts/reviews/story/0,11712,992828,00.html With which it's frankly hard to argue.... though no doubt Keith 'n' Andy have now been suitably brainwashed!! - ---------------- It's become Bash the Spree week - I read a similar review earlier on a website whose URL I've forgotten. Bah, humbug I say - and praise the sun. - ------------ > >>Quick mention of second on the bill, Mull Historical Society, who I > thought > gave a good performance battling against the microphonic elements. Stage > space being a bit of a challenge when supporting the Spree. Not quite as > indie as I remember from seeing him/them before. Bit more anthemic, but > still belting out a good tune.<< > > Supported REM at Brixton too. All the elements of a decent pop band are > there, but somehow it just doesn't click. Bit session-man, bit too mid-paced, bit too jolly. - --------------------- I'd tend to agree. I described them as 'power ballads' after the set, which was a bit unfair but only slightly. Another the Keith ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 18:50:06 EDT From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Brighton/hair In a message dated 7/7/03 10:38:04 AM Central Daylight Time, edspecial@digitalrealm.net writes: > Waist-length, short on top, silver, slightly tinged with dark brown. > WOW!!!! that is one exquisite mullet!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! keep up the good work! RL ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 18:54:28 EDT From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Brighton/hair In a message dated 7/7/03 2:32:08 PM Central Daylight Time, iansjackson@hotmail.com writes: > look........ > > can we just drop this hair thing right now....??????!!!! please....????? > > ian (receding and not touchy about it at all...) s.j. > > fascist uber-menche short hair for me....very bleached from the sun right now... RL ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 19:02:35 -0700 From: Ed Special Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Brighton/hair On Monday, July 7, 2003, at 03:50 PM, RLynn9@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 7/7/03 10:38:04 AM Central Daylight Time, > edspecial@digitalrealm.net writes: > >> Waist-length, short on top, silver, slightly tinged with dark brown. >> > > WOW!!!! that is one exquisite mullet!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! > > keep up the good work! > > RL "Mom! They're makin fun of me! Tell 'em it's not a mullet!" Ed "All-right, boys. It's Not a mullet, really. Just short enough to slightly stand up on top, keep it out of his eyes and to tie it into a ponytail to keep it out of his little paint can." Mrs. Special (my....er....I mean...his Mother) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 18:37:00 -0500 From: Michael Flaherty Subject: [idealcopy] Re: Symphonic in Persuasion >From: "Bill Hick" >Subject: [idealcopy] Symphonic in Persuasion The Ascension is more a taste of better things to >come / ideas improved upon and suffers from very dry recording (no room >resonance). >Symphony 3 builds slowly and is quite subdued compared to some of the others, >and is really nice. >I'd recommend Symphonies 1, 2 (w/ Z'ev) & 6 for raw power, and 1 is >particularly rugged recording. I would agree with all of the above--3 & 6 are probably my favorites, but they're all worth multiple-hearings. >Apparently 4 was never released as Branca could never get a satisfactory >recording. Nor was 7. Actually, Branca has been asking anyone with a tape of #4 to contact him; apparantly it has been lost. 5 is also pretty good. 8 & 10 are overwhelming but a bit pompous >and overblown > >All the orchestral ones I've heard are mediocre and lose the plot entirely, >except for The World Upside Down, which is still less interesting than his >guitar symphonies. The other orchestral one would be #9. (I suspect I like these two quite a bit more than you do, although they do tend to wander a bit). Your point on 8 & 10 is well taken: as Branca plans to re-record them I suspect that he's dissatisfied with the recordings as well. Still, I've played them all more times than I can remember, so I've obviously forgiven their faults. I'll take his worst moment over the prime of most. My only problem with Branca is that he's not recording more--he has a number of recent unreleased pieces, including 3 more symphonies. I just bought a Tellus tape that has a short piece of Branca's included, but haven't heard it yet. Michael Flaherty ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 00:44:05 +0100 From: "Tim" Subject: [idealcopy] OT: Joy Division treasure trove on Ebay Ian Curtis' signed fag packet, 12 copies of ideal for living, signed FAC-2 EP and loads more. currently on at 5 grand and reserve not yet met and only 10 hours left. If it doesn't sell, I wonder whether he might be better off splitting the collection up a bit cos he's got a rag bag of seriously collectable memorabilia and really easy to find stuff like John Savages 'Time Travel' book. http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2541990258&category=273 51 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 01:11:31 +0100 From: "ian s jackson" Subject: [idealcopy] Lurking (not participating) list partners... > > >>Mrs Lumbard would like to point out that she, and Mrs Knight were >also in attendance. >-------------- >Indeed they were, although as Mrs Knight doesn't tend to lurk here (at >least as far as I'm aware) I omitted to mention her attendance. Clearly >Mrs Lumbard is more of a closet lister. and on this subject, can i just say that my wife is a MASSIVE Wire fan...just not a total geek (as far as joining lists goes...) like the majority of the (married/coupled) guys here...!!!! ian.s.j. _________________________________________________________________ On the move? Get Hotmail on your mobile phone http://www.msn.co.uk/msnmobile ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 01:14:16 +0100 From: "ian s jackson" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT: Joy Division treasure trove on Ebay >Ian Curtis' signed fag packet, 12 copies of ideal for living, signed FAC-2 >EP and loads more. currently on at 5 grand and reserve not yet met and only >10 hours left. i actually had the original Ideal For Living EP in my sweaty little hands in the original Probe shop in Liverpool, priced 75p iirc...and thought...nah...(slaps forehead for the 1000th time...) ian.s.j. _________________________________________________________________ Sign-up for a FREE BT Broadband connection today! http://www.msn.co.uk/specials/btbroadband ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 20:17:26 -0500 From: "dan bailey" Subject: [idealcopy] completely OT: song i.d? swear to god i found this during a net search around 5 years ago, but apparently it's gone now ... in any event, i'm trying to recall who did a song i saw performed (or, more accurately, lip-synched) on "american bandstand" back around 1971 by some white guy (as opposed to a full band) ... title was something like "we're all singing in the same band" (though i deliberately mis-remember it as "we're all singing in an insane band ...). chorus was something along the lines of "we're all singing in the same band/stand beside your brother & take his hand." seems like the guy's name was the same as some present-day sports or entertaiment figure ... dan, who longtime listmembers may recall required more than a quarter-century to identify (from a chance listen to a bargain-bin "glam crazee" cassette) a snippet of song overheard on a static-filled car radio broadcast circa '72 as "son of my father" (apparently massive in the uk, but quite obscure over here ... how in heck i could've heard it in extreme northwest louisiana, i have no earthly idea) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 21:20:32 EDT From: Eardrumbuz@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Brighton/hair In a message dated 7/7/03 11:19:07 AM, MarkBursa@aol.com writes: >sadly no rugs or Ralph Coates combovers. sadly? my dear mark, what exactly do you enjoy looking at? ;o) - -paul (think of britney, forget the rug...think of britney, forget the combover) c.d. ;o) www.mp3.com/winteracademy ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 21:25:44 EDT From: Eardrumbuz@aol.com Subject: ot Re: tellus, was [idealcopy] Re: Symphonic in Persuasion In a message dated 7/7/03 7:35:17 PM, mflaher3@triton.edu writes: > >I just bought a Tellus tape that has a short piece of Branca's included, >but haven't heard it yet. just! where did you just buy one? i haven't seen one in maybe 15 years...not that i've been hunting for them, but - -another the paul www.mp3.com/winteracademy ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 03:10:27 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Monochromatic=20Man?= Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Brighton/hair > > look........ > > > > can we just drop this hair thing right > now....??????!!!! please....????? > > > > ian (receding and not touchy about it at all...) > s.j. > > Short, spikey and very red (not ginger)for now... ________________________________________________________________________ Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Yahoo! Messenger http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 03:12:41 +0100 From: "ian s jackson" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] completely OT: song i.d? >From: "dan bailey" a snippet of song overheard on a static-filled car radio >broadcast circa '72 as "son of my father" (apparently massive in the uk, >but >quite obscure over here ... how in heck i could've heard it in extreme >northwest louisiana, i have no earthly idea) weird, i gave Son Of My Father a blast on the stereo only yesterday (honest to god...) ...witchy, witchy... sorry though Dan, can't help with the song id just yet...nfi... ian.s.j. _________________________________________________________________ On the move? Get Hotmail on your mobile phone http://www.msn.co.uk/msnmobile ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V6 #199 *******************************