From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V6 #198 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Monday, July 7 2003 Volume 06 : Number 198 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [idealcopy] Re: d+b [Ian Grant ] Re: [idealcopy] Re: d+b ["ian s jackson" ] Re: [idealcopy] Re: d+b [Ian Grant ] Re: [idealcopy] Re: d+b ["ian s jackson" ] Re: [idealcopy] Re: Welcome to idealcopy [Tisbili@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] foetsie [Bart van Damme ] [idealcopy] was Welcome to idealcopy,now it's war....... [Ari Britt ] RE: [idealcopy] Re: d+b ["ian s jackson" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 06 Jul 2003 11:13:14 +0100 From: Ian Grant Subject: [idealcopy] Re: d+b At 04:30 06/07/03 -0400, biLLe wrote: >My listening to them is a periodic exercise in futility. As far as I can >tell, drum n bass is the stupidest form of music ever invented.... worse even >than opera or country n western. Woah. Hang on. You seem to be judging d+b on the basis that it isn't something other than what it is. I mean, I've been listening to it for ten years or more, and I struggle to recall more than one album that I'd seriously recommend to anyone. (Dillinja's "Cybotron" from two or three years ago, if you're interested...and that's only because it's such a mighty collection of tunes, a compilation tape as much as an album.) There are certainly plenty of other CDs that I've played and enjoyed...but, in each case, I can think of several twelve inches that sum up that particular name much more satisfactorily. It's dance music. It's designed for maximum impact on dance floors, which means that attempts to steer it towards (traditional) home listening pleasure are pretty much doomed to failure. There have been many and the vast majority have indeed been dreadful, losing most of the form's appeal in the process. Which is why it continues to thrive in clubs, why it continues to excite people like me (and, yes, I do indeed like a drill or two, and greatly enjoy being battered by breakbeats and bass in the comfort of my own headphones), and why it consistently fails to break through to a wider audience. Mogwai will never tear up Fabric, and Twisted Individual will never make much sense over a nice glass of red wine. As for the accusation of stupidity...well, amen to that! The sudden outbreak of "intelligence" within jungle/d+b in the mid-nineties was a truly wretched thing. If I want intelligence, I'll listen to Aesop Rock or something. If I want a more visceral experience, I'll listen to Distorted Minds' "T-10"...a ridiculous, *stupid* and utterly fantastic record. That's what it's for, innit. Cheers, ig. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 06 Jul 2003 12:17:57 +0100 From: "ian s jackson" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: d+b >From: Ian Grant >Woah. Hang on. You seem to be judging d+b on the basis that it isn't >something other than what it is.... because there is something going on, either with Sh*temail or the smoe thingy...i haven't seen the original post that Ian's replying to yet ...but... i fully agree with Ian, here. i'm no 'dance music' enthusiast, but D&B, when it first bubbled into the underground was really revolutionary...(i remember saying to people on buses on their way out 'clubbing it'...'are you into jungle...??...and they didn't have a fucking clue what i was on about...) i'm vainly trying to remember a label based in Romford, Essex, that produced a whole string of amazing 12"s that i played on my old radio show...i think one of the tunes was 'The Dark Stranger' (in fact, ha, i think i'm flogging re-mixes of some of that stuff on that spreadsheet i told the list about a while back...)...whatever the name of the label, anyway, we, on the show, couldn't wait for the next one, to get it on the airwaves asap...i DO NOT, as a rule, play dance music at home but, now again, you will hear at my place...The System 'You Are In My System', Cameo 'Word Up', Eric B & Rakim 'Paid In Full', A Guy Called Gerald 'Voodoo Ray', Heatwave 'Boogie Nights', Grace Jones 'Nipple To The Bottle', 808 State 'Extended Pleasure of Dance EP', Grandmaster Flash & The Furious Five 'The Message'...it's ALL dance music to me...as is The Beatles, The Monkees, The Bhundu Boys, cajun/zydeco, township jive...etc, etc...to dismiss D&B out of hand, is to miss out on the cultural aspect(s) and the mental and physical benefit(s) of 'dancing yer arse off' now and again...i'm sure Mr.Newman (especially...) would agree with me here on this one... ian.s.j. _________________________________________________________________ Tired of 56k? Get a FREE BT Broadband connection http://www.msn.co.uk/specials/btbroadband ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 06 Jul 2003 12:29:33 +0100 From: Ian Grant Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: d+b At 12:17 06/07/03 +0100, ian wrote: >i'm vainly trying to remember a label based in Romford, Essex, that >produced a whole string of amazing 12"s that i played on my old radio >show...i think one of the tunes was 'The Dark Stranger' That'll be Suburban Base, I think. "The Dark Stranger" was by Boogie Times Tribe, although my personal favourite was "Watch Out" by D'Cruze, a really furious ragga-sampling tune. SubBase was a bit ruffer than the equally fabulous (at that time, before it became too tasteful and coffee-table-friendly) Moving Shadow label, home of Omni Trio and Foul Play. They went hand-in-hand, though...and it was a frightening time for my bank balance, as it was perfectly easy to spend twenty quid on twelve inches on a weekly basis. Ah, them were the days.... Cheers, ig. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 06 Jul 2003 12:38:29 +0100 From: "ian s jackson" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: d+b Ian.......you're DEAD right mate...that's the one...!!! Suburban Base's early 12"s were fucking awesome...!!!! one of those D'Cruze tunes was one of my faves of ALL releases for that year....!!! thanks for that....ian.s.j. PS - ...and speaking of getting into the odd 'dance' vibe at home...you've reminded me... Cutty Ranks - 'Limb By Limb'......fucking hell, what a tune...!!!!!!! >From: Ian Grant >To: "ian s jackson" ,idealcopy@smoe.org >Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: d+b >Date: Sun, 06 Jul 2003 12:29:33 +0100 > >At 12:17 06/07/03 +0100, ian wrote: >>i'm vainly trying to remember a label based in Romford, Essex, that >>produced a whole string of amazing 12"s that i played on my old radio >>show...i think one of the tunes was 'The Dark Stranger' > >That'll be Suburban Base, I think. "The Dark Stranger" was by Boogie Times >Tribe, although my personal favourite was "Watch Out" by D'Cruze, a really >furious ragga-sampling tune. SubBase was a bit ruffer than the equally >fabulous (at that time, before it became too tasteful and >coffee-table-friendly) Moving Shadow label, home of Omni Trio and Foul >Play. They went hand-in-hand, though...and it was a frightening time for >my bank balance, as it was perfectly easy to spend twenty quid on twelve >inches on a weekly basis. > >Ah, them were the days.... > >Cheers, > >ig. _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail messages direct to your mobile phone http://www.msn.co.uk/msnmobile ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Jul 2003 09:19:03 EDT From: Tisbili@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: Welcome to idealcopy (2-teeth-but all my hair Ari) That's par for the course in North Carolina, innit? 8i11e (((((((((((((())))))))))))))))) np: elvis - get happy chaz jankel - questionnaire new order - retro (still...hey, its four cds) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 06 Jul 2003 15:59:27 +0200 From: Bart van Damme Subject: Re: [idealcopy] foetsie > It's Financial Times Share Index or FTSI. Newsreaders in the UK started > diminishing it to footsi a few years back with straight faces. So now I do know! Ta very much! Bart ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Jul 2003 07:07:59 -0700 (PDT) From: Ari Britt Subject: [idealcopy] was Welcome to idealcopy,now it's war....... just tryin' to keep up with the nay bores.................and why'd y'sign yer name with an 8 and 1's,and not a B or l,or is this par for your neck of the woods?or does it 'mean' something.........(or worse,are you an eminem fan) A n.p morphine.'good' Tisbili@aol.com wrote: (2-teeth-but all my hair Ari) That's par for the course in North Carolina, innit? 8i11e (((((((((((((())))))))))))))))) np: elvis - get happy chaz jankel - questionnaire new order - retro (still...hey, its four cds) SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Jul 2003 11:22:09 EDT From: Tisbili@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] was Welcome to idealcopy,now it's war....... In a message dated 7/6/2003 10:09:10 AM Eastern Standard Time, threeduggaduggas@yahoo.com writes from the heart of NASCAR country: < why'd y'sign yer name with an 8 and 1's,and not a B or l> The ugly consequences of a public school education. > <.......(or > worse,are you an eminem fan) > > No. Would rather listen to the entire Goldie catalogue first. l3i113 ~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~ np: same as before ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Jul 2003 09:03:24 -0700 (PDT) From: Ari Britt Subject: Re: [idealcopy] was Welcome to idealcopy,now Eminem Tisbili@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 7/6/2003 10:09:10 AM Eastern Standard Time, threeduggaduggas@yahoo.com writes from the heart of NASCAR country: < why'd y'sign yer name with an 8 and 1's,and not a B or l> The ugly consequences of a public school education. > <.......(or > worse,are you an eminem fan) > > No. Would rather listen to the entire Goldie catalogue first. l3i113 Actually I started 'getting in to' Eminem's works about 5/6 months ago,I have a dvd vid and 8 mile dvd,getting to like his style and lyrics wasn't easy,at first.........y'ought ti 'give him a listen'...you might be suprised.Ari ~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~ n.p the cure @ theatre antique,orange,france '87 SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 06 Jul 2003 16:43:29 +0000 From: "Jason Rogers" Subject: [idealcopy] Re: idealcopy-digest V6 #197 The White Stripes is one of those bands that I just don't get. I don't get it at all. A lot of people here in the Atlanta area really love them, but I always change the station when I hear one of their songs. It's a good thing that I don't listen to 99X that much, except during their 80's/early 90's retro show at lunch hour. Most of time otherwise, they play White Stripes, lumberjack music (Creed, Nickelback) and my vote for the worst band over the past 20 years....drumroll, please.....Train. In what world could Train's "Meet Virginia" and "Drops Of Jupiter" have ever become popular? I turned the station to 99X a couple of days ago just in time to hear the "Can you imagine no love, pride, deep-fried chicken, Your best friend always sticking up for you" lyric. Good Lord....lol Sorry about the rant, but the Jack White post made me think about it again. Jason Now Playing: Broken Social Scene - You Forgot It In People >Date: Sat, 5 Jul 2003 13:36:03 EDT >From: RLynn9@aol.com >Subject: [idealcopy] Jack White=Rock Star cunt > >i can't believe i forgot to mention that last Sunday Jack White of the >White >Stripes and his girlfriend Rene Zellwegger were shopping in my neighborhood >record store ....he was acting like a complete self-conscious rock-star >cunt....treated all the employees like crap and was rude to every customer >in the >store that even looked at him....he looked a little high as >well...Zellwegger was >very aloof like she couldn't be bother with human beings in general... > >give me a fuckin' break... > >i also heard (from friends who went to the show that night) that Mr. White >carried his cunty attitude on stage with him...stopping in mid song and >bitching >about this and that..... > >this is why i hate rock stars and hollywood fuck-wits.... > >over and out! > >RL _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Jul 2003 12:49:09 EDT From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: idealcopy-digest V6 #197 In a message dated 7/6/03 11:44:20 AM Central Daylight Time, inspectorjason@hotmail.com writes: > The White Stripes is one of those bands that I just don't get. I don't > get it at all. A lot of people here in the Atlanta area really love > them, but I always change the station when I hear one of their songs. > yeah, i've been saying that for some time now..i just don't understand it...i can't get away from their muisc here in St. Louis..it's on the radio..it's playing in every store or restaurant...i hear it too loudly on people's headphones on the bus and train......every wannabe hipster claims to be a fan of theirs before they were big...yeah whatever... RL ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Jul 2003 19:56:27 +0100 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] was Welcome to idealcopy,now Eminem > Actually I started 'getting in to' Eminem's works about 5/6 months ago,I have a dvd vid and 8 mile dvd,getting to like his style and lyrics wasn't easy,at first.........y'ought ti 'give him a listen'...you might be suprised.Ari > ~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~ I was playing Lose Yourself when I read this post! Not a huge fan, but some of his recent singles have been fab. And 8 Mile was a very pleasant surprise. Really good movie! Keith PS Re the White Stripes...I didn't understand the fuss either (apart from Fell In Love with a Girl - especially as performed by those rather good cats!), but I like Elephant a lot. Count me in as late convertee! NP YYY - pin e.p. (The extra tracks don't really sound like the YYY's other than the vocs. I particularly like Rich) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Jul 2003 15:31:21 EDT From: Tisbili@aol.com Subject: [idealcopy] Re: dnb Hello Ian: First, I'll say that using the word stupid was...well...stupid, as it carries too much in the way of unintended personal animus. Plus, I have no interest in (re)kindling the "intelligent" dance music thread. Just a little frustration at another disappointing dnb record, I guess. The longevity you refer to is why I periodically come back to it...there must be more to it than meets the eye, or ear. Although it is usually to my ears the sound of a drum kit being thrown down the stairs, as someone once put it, the rhythmic conceit can be entertaining...Amon Tobin for one is a personal favorite of mine who uses it extensively. I don't think he would fall within the dnb genre, though. I get dance music. I'd venture that my tastes run in that direction a little more than most here, based on the occasional playlist and threads posted that touch on the subject. Dnb just doesn't move me in that way, but then again, it doesn't get played in any clubs I've been to. I can't say for sure since its been 10 years since I was in the UK, but is it is a localized taste? Maybe I just need to get out more. I 'm not convinced by the argument that says "it works in the club but not at home," which suggests to me that it is not so much actually listened to or even necessary for the activity, as it is the background noise that happens to be on when you are on the floor. I didn't go to Studio 54 and snort coke, but any Giorgio Moroder or Afrika Bambaataa record still kicks it as much at home as it does in the club. As for being a 10 year fan and only coming up with a compilation as recommended listening, QED. ;-) BillE ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Jul 2003 13:49:44 -0700 (PDT) From: Ari Britt Subject: Fwd: Re: [idealcopy] Re: idealcopy-digest V6 #197 RLynn9@aol.com wrote: From: RLynn9@aol.com Date: Sun, 6 Jul 2003 12:49:09 EDT Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: idealcopy-digest V6 #197 To: inspectorjason@hotmail.com, idealcopy@smoe.org In a message dated 7/6/03 11:44:20 AM Central Daylight Time, inspectorjason@hotmail.com writes: > The White Stripes is one of those bands that I just don't get. I don't > get it at all. A lot of people here in the Atlanta area really love > them, but I always change the station when I hear one of their songs. > yeah, i've been saying that for some time now..i just don't understand it...i can't get away from their muisc here in St. Louis..it's on the radio..it's playing in every store or restaurant...i hear it too loudly on people's headphones on the bus and train......every wannabe hipster claims to be a fan of theirs before they were big...yeah whatever... RL Boy what a lot of preconcieved gangsters we are...........I 'quite like' 'Elephant' for some reason,not too sure 'bout the rest................A SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 01:53:38 +0100 From: "Tim" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] Re: d+b Ian Grant says: drum n bass is the stupidest form of music ever > invented.... worse even > >than opera or country n western. You can't compare D&B to Opera and Country. Thats like comparing Viaducts to Crabs and Sellotape. D&B was great. It was a truly British art form, a wonderful bastardisation of different beatmaps. There are some great D&B LPs too. Omin Trio's debut (although it was a compilation of 12s), 'Black Secret Technology' by A guy Called Gerald, all the Photek stuff, The first 4 Spring Heel Jack LPs and 'Drum & Bass for Papa' by Plug spring to mind. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2003 02:10:44 +0100 From: "ian s jackson" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] Re: d+b >From: "Tim" >all the Photek stuff,... TWO of which are up for sale, by the way, kids...from yours truly...just in case you'd forgotten... i'm getting my shit together with a PayPal account, so IF you fancy them...better be quick...!!! or they enter the dreaded eBay situation...hahaha... ian.s.j. (not sure how long i can keep this Del-Boy thing going...gawd help us...) NP - The Raymond Brake - 'Piles Of Dirty Winters' _________________________________________________________________ Sign-up for a FREE BT Broadband connection today! http://www.msn.co.uk/specials/btbroadband ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V6 #198 *******************************