From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V6 #189 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Saturday, June 28 2003 Volume 06 : Number 189 Today's Subjects: ----------------- RE: [idealcopy] OT: Branca (was 'Amen to that') ["Keith Knight" ] Re: [idealcopy] Re: WIRE art/sleeves [Bart van Damme ] [idealcopy] Best / Worst Sleeves ["Bill Hick" ] [idealcopy] Win Gil CD / Mg Flare ["Bill Hick" ] Re: [idealcopy] Win Gil CD / Mg Flare [RLynn9@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] REM untitled [MarkBursa@aol.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 09:45:20 +0100 From: "Keith Knight" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] OT: Branca (was 'Amen to that') Bart asked: What do Louis Andriessen & Glenn Branca have in common? - --------------- Dunno the answer to that but has anyone heard any remastered Branca on CD? I bought a couple of albums on vinyl - The Ascension and Symphony #3 - back in the 80s after seeing him live a couple of times (once with Thurston Moore and Lee Ronaldo pre-Sonic Youth) and was blown away but the albums were always weedy in comparison. Have these albums been remastered satisfactorily or can anyone recommend a sufficiently beefy Branca recording? Another the Keith ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 10:55:40 +0100 From: "ian s jackson" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] The Durutti Column Jason......2nd LP........LC.........ian.s.j. >From: "Jason Rogers" >To: idealcopy@smoe.org >Subject: [idealcopy] The Durutti Column >Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 00:11:10 +0000 > >After searching on and off for a few years, I finally found The Durutti >Column - The Return Of The Durutti Column in the Import section at a Tower >Records here. Most of the album is, as the Tony Wilson "God" said in 24 >Hour Party People, "good music to chill out to". I do think that the >album is worth having just for "Sleep Will Come" w/ Jeremy Kerr at vocals >and for the synth work by Martin Hannett, but Vini Reilly is quite an >accomplished guitarist. > >My question for any Durutti Column fans here is this: What should be my >second Durutti Column purchase...or is anything else worth purchasing? > >Much appreciated. > > >Jason > >Now Playing: The Durutti Column - "Conduct" > >_________________________________________________________________ >The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* >http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail _________________________________________________________________ Get Hotmail on your mobile phone http://www.msn.co.uk/msnmobile ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 12:38:06 +0000 From: "Derek White" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] the whole Jake&Dinos aerobics thing...a thought.. . > > i played that amsterdam stream and as soon as "pink flag" > > started i immediately had a vision of the barbican aerobics > > team. is anybody else suffering this dilemna and is it likely > > to be a long term issue? p >I'm afraid it is because I've got >a video clip of it and it grows increasingly >strange and disturbing with repeated viewing > >when I get the hang of burning VCD's, I shall share the horror ///// I'm already familiar with the phenomenon, though under slightly different circumstances : I bought the CD 'Pink Flag' after getting back from the Barbie to find that my vinyl copy was so warped, it was virtually unplayable. As soon as 'P F' started on the initial play, I too had aerobics before the eyes. I wonder whether this is just a passing thing, or will it re-occur until I've seen the boys play it live again *without* the dance troupe? This could be difficult, if 'Flag Burning's' intent was to retire those songs after a last hurrah. I may be stuck with the condition for keeps.....................:-( _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself with cool emoticons - download MSN Messenger today! http://www.msn.co.uk/messenger ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 13:45:41 +0100 From: Andrew Walkingshaw Subject: Re: [idealcopy] the whole Jake&Dinos aerobics thing...a thought.. . On Fri, Jun 27, 2003 at 12:38:06PM +0000, Derek White wrote: > different circumstances : I bought the CD 'Pink Flag' after getting back > from the Barbie to find that my vinyl copy was so warped, it was virtually > unplayable. As soon as 'P F' started on the initial play, I too had > aerobics before the eyes. At the time, I must admit that I was expecting a Bill Drummond-esque charge of the stage with machine-guns on the line "How many dead or alive?"... - - Andrew (who has the affliction worst with "Mr. Suit": particularly the disturbing hand gestures for the line "shove it up your arse"...) - -- home - email: andrew@lexical.org.uk | http://www.lexical.org.uk/ work - email: adw27@esc.cam.ac.uk | http://www.esc.cam.ac.uk/ "/Peep/". 'Yes?' "More cooookiessssss..." ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 15:47:06 +0000 From: "Derek White" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] the whole Jake&Dinos aerobics thing...a thought.. . >- Andrew (who has the affliction worst with "Mr. Suit": particularly >the disturbing hand gestures for the line "shove it up your arse"...) /// Oh yes, I'd forgotten about *that gesture*! Unfortunately, I can see it now, too ....... Beware, people! It seems this malady is also contagious....... ;-) _________________________________________________________________ Sign-up for a FREE BT Broadband connection today! http://www.msn.co.uk/specials/btbroadband ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 16:02:43 +0000 From: "Derek White" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: WIRE art/sleeves ><< >So here's a thread - fave/worst Wire cover art/sleeves? >> > >I really wish the PF and Chairs Missing sleeves didn't have the white >border, >and didn't include the band name or title. Just the image, with a full >bleed. >Preferably gloss lamination too. Or spot varnish on the flag and the vase. I take the point with the white border on PF: it's an embellishment that doesn't add anything, but I think it's more apt for 'Chairs..' , as it adds a kind of frame for the 'still life' that is the vase. Similarly with bandname/title: I think P.Flag had such an iconic quality, that no text was needed, pretty much anyone with an interest in the band were aware of the album's name, weren't they? Perhaps the same *doesn't* apply to 'Chairs..'? Gloss lamination would have been nice, too. Mine's got grubby-looking through use & handling. Incidentally, with regard to CM, I remember reading somewhere that 'Chairs missing' was a slang term for someone who was a bit....erm.... unusual/eccentric/*mad*?? The thing is, in all my many years, I've never heard this usage of the words, & I was wondering if any of you have? Maybe it's a *very* localised thing......... _________________________________________________________________ Sign-up for a FREE BT Broadband connection today! http://www.msn.co.uk/specials/btbroadband ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 19:10:10 +0100 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: WIRE art/sleeves Derek... > Incidentally, with regard to CM, I remember reading somewhere that 'Chairs > missing' was a slang term for someone who was a bit....erm.... > unusual/eccentric/*mad*?? > The thing is, in all my many years, I've never heard this usage of the > words, & I was wondering if any of you have? Maybe it's a *very* localised > thing......... As in the lights are on but there's nobody home? On a similar theme, I remember a Robert Lloyd Peel session featuring a track called Top Floor to Let. Keith ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 19:13:31 +0100 From: "Keith Knight" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] [OT] M. + B. I agree that 'name' acts prices are getting higher (prohibitively high IMO) but at the lower end, in London at least, prices are unfeasibly low. I've lost count of the number of #6 and #7 gigs I've seen this year. On Monday for instance I go to see Jeffrey Lewis again with three other bands (mostly over from the US as far as I can gather) for seven quid. How can bands survive on these prices? I'd gladly pay a tenner for four bands. So one can see 24 bands for the cost of one Bowie gig. I've never seen him and I would still like to - but I know I'm going to get more enjoyment from those 24 bands. Another the Keith - -----Original Message----- From: owner-idealcopy@smoe.org [mailto:owner-idealcopy@smoe.org] On Behalf Of PaulRabjohn@aol.com Sent: 26 June 2003 22:40 To: keith.astbury10@virgin.net; bartvandamme@home.nl; idealcopy@smoe.org Subject: Re: [idealcopy] [OT] M. + B. In a message dated 6/26/03 6:17:59 PM GMT Daylight Time, keith.astbury10@virgin.net writes: > Actually, the only arena gig I've been to was Bowie in the mid-90's at > Wembley. And he was excellent, though we had wangled really good seats. He > used the venue to the full, whereas support act Moz - the main reason why I > went really - didn't really cut it. Mind you he went AWOL from the tour > shortly afterwards so maybe he wasn't in the best frame of mind. > > But this tour - tickets are something like #36 and #46. There's much talk > about how cd prices are coming down, but am I alone in thinking that gig > prices are shooting up (as a result?) - certainly for the 'bigger' acts. I /////i think you're partly right there keith. some recent big money signings on major labels (eg robbie williams) include big cuts for the label on gigs , merchandise etc. i guess if the kidddies are all kazaaing yr album then you milk them for the live shows instead. however , hard to believe a wily old trouper like the Dame is on that sort of deal so i suspect he's just trousering a few more millions off his fanbase. when i dared to criticise the 5th (or whatever) cd re-issue of "ziggy" as a little avaricious i got some comments from the bowie massive along the lines of "nice to see the little guys make some cash rather than the big labels for once". so maybe his fans will shell out #46 a pop without much complaint? does seem a trifle pricey but who am i to judge? p ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 21:26:37 +0200 From: Bart van Damme Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: WIRE art/sleeves > Preferably gloss lamination too. Or spot varnish on the flag and the vase. Gloss lamination is good, it's just there for protection, but spot varnish really would be part of the design. It emphasizes enormously. Personally I find it a bit tacky. Advertisement agencies use it a lot to give their garbage a richer feel. I hardly ever saw it being used in an imaginative manner. Bart-FX ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 17:11:03 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: WIRE art/sleeves > >>Gloss lamination is good, it's just there for protection,<< Also I like old albums with laminated covers. they age well, which would be appropriate in the circumstances. >> but spot varnish > really would be part of the design. It emphasizes > enormously. Personally I find it a bit tacky. Advertisement agencies use it a lot > to give their > garbage a richer feel.<< It would have been very original in 1977! >> I hardly ever saw it being used in an imaginative > manner.<< The 4s on REM's Green? Mark> ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 15:40:43 -0700 (PDT) From: Ari Britt Subject: [idealcopy] Bart-FX wrote............ ......I hardly ever saw it being used in an imaginative manner. Bart-FX ..............then 'make it so' Jean Luc Ari SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2003 01:36:19 +0200 From: Bart van Damme Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: WIRE art/sleeves >> I hardly ever saw it being used in an imaginative > manner.<< > The 4s on REM's Green? Great example! It's likes ghostswriting. There's lots of "mystique" about that cover, e.g. have you noticed both 4's are on the R's and on the reverse side the tracknumber 4 (which is Stand) is replaced by the R Apparently it all came down to a typo Stipey made as 4 and R are so close on the keyboard, but he kinda left the mistake in as an art statement after reading "Metaphor As Mistake" by one Walker Percy - esquire Also, the untitled track 11 which is printed on the cd itself, but not on the reverse side of the cover... How mysterious it all is! Bart *little yawn* ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2003 01:02:02 +0100 From: "Bill Hick" Subject: [idealcopy] Strange Not To >>>should i really go to the expense, ticket/travel/excusing myself from my brother-in-law's 40th birthday dinner, to see this show? WIRE live is better than dinner with ANYONE I wouldn't mind not eating for a week before the show if there was any point in doing something that so many who have no choice in so-called 'glabalization' (ie. piecemeal expansion of US Empire) are forced to do every day. But then again I have been indulging in ostentatious display, doing little more than eat three lino eels a day. I SPENT a lot travelling to Berlin and Hamburg because I knew I'd get better WIRE gigs after they'd played a few dates rather than these one offs they always do in the Uk. To think ahead, I must've been right. >>>or should i wait til things change a bit more, hopefully the next tour? What if one of them encounters that heaven sent extinction event? Things might not change for the better!!! But you have a point. Isn't it about time they ditched those old Read and Burn 01 tracks? I'd ditch the Ace of Spades Jr song, the Hawkwind if they'd ever been any good song, Another the Ally in Exile and Another the Surgeon's Girl. Which leaves just Germ Ship (which they might be bored with enough to give the chop soon? Or does that mad axeman Gilbert have too much fun with his solo?) and In the Art of Stopping (which might have a huge future in Read and Burn 03 / 04 time, licking the arse of persistance). It'd be nice to hear Zoom and DJ Fuck Off's Drill again, and Nice Streets Above, You Can't Leave Now & Half Eaten. There is really no point in them ever playing Lowdown again. I'm glad to see they've ditched it as it was getting a bit worn out. I'd rather hear them play the new Heartbeat, Mercy, Two People in a Room, He Knows, The Art of Persistance, Silk Skin Paws, Boiling Boy or Another the Letter again. 3 or 4 missing chairs will need returning. >>>as much as i'd love to see them play strange, i just don't know if i will do it. Surgeon's Girl was the best of the old Pink Flag tunes, and 106 Beats That is no doubt a challenge for them to get as fast as it was on that Peel session. >>>let me put it this way, and maybe i'll get a better response: dot dash dot dash >>>why should i go to this show? Because WIRE will kick out the Agfers, motherfucker >>>convince me not to use the $25 in my pocket for cds this week :o) You could always shoplift the CDs Shops like Tower, HMV, Virgin won't miss them Cracked Machine Highly Irregular Cyberzine http://www.webinfo.co.uk/crackedmachine NP Robert Poss - Crossing Caso Bay "Feed the world, let them know its Xmas time" ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2003 01:06:03 +0100 From: "Bill Hick" Subject: [idealcopy] Best / Worst Sleeves >>>So here's a thread - fave/worst Wire cover art/sleeves? The ones I like to look at most are Pink Flag 154 The first four Dome albums He Said - Hail Bruce's Boil-in-the-Bag Singles Colin Newman - B & Inventory singles Also really like the posters I have for Dome 2 & 3 I always thought the cover of The Drill was a bit crap, but recently picked up a tape copy for 49p in a PDSA shop, and it looks great as a cassette box. Worst covers Send Redux 12 Times U Wire Play Pop (plus uselss sleevenotes from Everet True) Coatings The First Letter (album) Colin Newman - It Seems Bruce Gilbert - Insiding The Ovo Mix 12" looks really good Also a round for "Eggs Refuse to Clear Up Pope Mystery" & "Everyday Pralines" And a round in the nice bar for Document and Eyewitness which gives enough fragmented information to fire the imagination, probably colouring thoughts of the event more vivd than it might actually have been. Cracked Machine Highly Irregular Cyberzine http://www.webinfo.co.uk/crackedmachine "Saw the great work of man As he turned the forests Into deserts of sand" (Killing Joke - Intravenous) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2003 01:20:19 +0100 From: "Bill Hick" Subject: [idealcopy] Win Gil CD / Mg Flare >VA - Faust- Friespiel (Ravivando remixes) Best Remix album ever made, but if you haven't heard it check out Ravvivando first! Actually there's no excuse for not getting everything ever released by Faust who are one of the few bands capable of upstaging WIRE. Did you see them in Berlin? >Heiner Goebbels - Eislermaterial Never heard this, but didn't he have something to do with the album that Ground Zero's phenomenal Revolutionery Pekinese Opera was a remix / deconstruction / destruction of? You should really get everything by Ground Zero, starting with RPO & Null & Void. Did any of you ever hear the Consume Red remixes? They were really hard to track down in the UK. >Asa Chang & Junray - both album &/or LP Forgot these - highly original and good music but haven't played them that much myself. I think the album is slightly better. >Secret Chiefs 3 - Book M Liked the earlier album Gil CD-R'ed for me. I'll check this out eventually. >Liars - this album has such a long title that it's impossible to remember The EP that came after it is even better. But is the split CD with Oneida worth getting? Jim O'Rourke told me at AutechreATP that the rhythm section had left the band whilst recording with him at Murray Street. But the last I heard was that they'd added some other musicians playing other instruments such as cellos to the band. Yeah Yeah Yeahs have just covered Liars Mr You're on Fire on their Pin single (Y Control & Maps should've been the singles). >Faust - Patchwork Faust Tapes Volume 2 and just as good really - but you need the Wumme Years Box, Faust IV, Rien, You Know Faust, Edinburgh 97 & Faust Wakes Nosferatu as well! >VA - Sonic Mook 2 Don't bother with this toytown pseudo-new wave revivalism. Get the albums by Liars, Yeah Yeah Yeahs & 2nd Gen instead, maybe also the Electrelane album (well they're good live anyway). The rest is retro to mediocre to utter shite, except the Ikara Colt track which is by far the best thing I've heard from these funny Fall impressionists. Just imagine Noddy and Big Ears up on stage in an Eater covers band slipped beside 'em w/synthesisers just like machines. Or if Donna Summer had been a tonedeaf beerbelly from Sheffield. smook seems like a lame attempt to let a bunch of mediocre to rubbish UK bands coat-tail ride on some fair to excellent US bands and a few old duffers still at it (like Billy Childish). From brilliant bands like Sonic Youth, Big Black, Butthole Surfers, Labradford, panasonic, Hovercraft & Rapeman to mostly watered down half assed trendy poseur piffle on Sonic Mook! What went wrong w/ Blast First? Where is the Labradford remix album? Will they ever release that pan sonic & FM Einheit album? Looks like the next Sonic Mook compilation 'Tepid Diarhea' is going to be even worse, what with crappy unfunny comedy bands like Pink Grease, Mummy&Daddy Bane Overlord, Kings Have Long Arms and Klang on it! But why couldn't they get Fischerpricer? Don't you just love the way the door price of the Erase Errata gig almost doubled as soon as the trendies got in on their scene? I've heard this Sonic Mook bloke DJ. He had so few good records he had to play Public Image twice. He could've played Cowboy Song!!! There's no excuse for not having a WIRE record in yr bag when you DJ. Time to Blow Up Fookin' Lab w/ Magnesium Flares I remember that rather good Blast First compilation Nothing Short of Total War Sonic Mook 'Exp' is more like Nothing Short of Total Wateringdown Rubbish adman crap sleeve too. If smook weren't so half assed about their retrosynthy punk wave & core for the bourgeois teatime set they'd put up a full frontal hard-on to offend truckdiving grandads shopping for Oasis at HMV. Cracked Machine Highly Irregular Cyberzine http://www.webinfo.co.uk/crackedmachine "Every direction pointing the same way I wonder who chose the colour scheme? Its very nice!" (Killing Joke - Unspeakable) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 21:24:04 EDT From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Win Gil CD / Mg Flare In a message dated 6/27/03 7:32:40 PM Central Daylight Time, umur_ot@hotmail.com writes: > >VA - Faust- Friespiel (Ravivando remixes) > > Best Remix album ever made, but if you haven't heard it check out Ravvivando > first! > > yep...i just picked this up recently...i'd rank it up there alongside: the two volumes of Nav Katze remixes called "Never Mind the Distortion" (Black Dog, Reload/Global Communication, Ultramarine, Disjecta, Aphex Twin, Sun Electric, Seefeel, U-Ziq, and Autechre) The Two Lone Swordsmen: "Further Reminders" (Lali Puna, Calexico, and Atom Heart are the highlights) Global Communication "Blood Music: Pentamerous Metamorphosis" (a remix of Chapterhouse's "Blood Music"..which leaves the original unrecognizable) Mum - "Please Smile My Noisebleed" (ISAN, Christian Kleine, and B. Fleischmann ) Chris & Cosey "Twist" (U-Ziq, Carl Craig, and Coil/Elph have their way) Biosphere and Deathprod "Nordheim Transformed" (remixes of work by the great Norwegian electronic composer) RL ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 21:24:11 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] REM untitled > >>Also, the untitled track 11 which is printed on > the cd itself, but not on the reverse side of > the cover... > How mysterious it all is!<< > > I love that untitled track. And I've seen 'em do it live. Peter Buck on > drums, Bill Berry on guitar, Mike Mills on keyboards, Peter Holsapple on bass. > REM, but not REM! Every band should be made to play each others' instruments at > least once! Mark ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V6 #189 *******************************