From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest)
To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org
Subject: idealcopy-digest V6 #186
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idealcopy-digest        Thursday, June 26 2003        Volume 06 : Number 186



                               Today's Subjects:
                               -----------------
  Re: [idealcopy] Wire Setlist June 21st  [Bart van Damme <bartvandamme@home]
  Re: [idealcopy] Re: art/sleeves     [Bart van Damme <bartvandamme@home.nl>]
  [idealcopy] Amen to that          [Fergus Kelly <lockupyourhats@yahoo.com>]
  [idealcopy] England's Hidden Rverse @ Helter Skelter  [Fergus Kelly <locku]
  RE: [idealcopy] Amen to that  [Alistair Tear <alistairtear@streetmanagemen]
  Re: [idealcopy] England's Hidden Rverse @ Helter Skelter  [Eardrumbuz@aol.]
  Re: [idealcopy] England's Hidden Rverse @ Helter Skelter  [MarkBursa@aol.c]
  Re: [idealcopy] England's Hidden Rverse @ Helter Skelter  [Ed Special <eds]
  Re: [idealcopy] Re: art/sleeves                         [MarkBursa@aol.com]
  Re: [idealcopy] England's Hidden Rverse @ Helter Skelter   [RLynn9@aol.com]
  Re: [idealcopy] Amen to that        [Bart van Damme <bartvandamme@home.nl>]
  Re: [idealcopy] Amen to that      [Ed Special <edspecial@digitalrealm.net>]
  [idealcopy] Amen to that             ["Jan J Noorda" <Ad_Roon@hotmail.com>]
  [idealcopy] Minimal Compact live in November  ["Jan J Noorda" <Ad_Roon@hot]
  Re: [idealcopy] [OT] Amen to that   [Bart van Damme <bartvandamme@home.nl>]
  [idealcopy] document         ["Keith Astbury" <keith.astbury10@virgin.net>]
  Re: [idealcopy] [OT] Amen to that  ["Keith Astbury" <keith.astbury10@virgi]
  Re: [idealcopy] document                                [MarkBursa@aol.com]
  RE: [idealcopy] Recommended CDs from first half of 03  ["Tim" <tim@kidsind]
  [idealcopy] WIRE in SF  ["Cambra, Robert" <Robert.Cambra@HARPERCOLLINS.com]
  Re: [idealcopy] WIRE in SF                             [Eardrumbuz@aol.com]
  Re: [idealcopy]  Amen to that       [Bart van Damme <bartvandamme@home.nl>]
  Re: [idealcopy] document                              [PaulRabjohn@aol.com]
  Re: [idealcopy] document                              [PaulRabjohn@aol.com]

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 11:50:10 +0200
From: Bart van Damme <bartvandamme@home.nl>
Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Wire Setlist June 21st

>> What about that $25 burning a hole in your pocket Paul?  ;-)
 
> i know! it really does come down to choosing whether to buy new music or go
> to the show...although i know i could easily get away with putting the wire
> ticket on a credit card and not think about it for a month, i guess the gig is
> really hinging more on if i can get a friend to go with me. that would
> certainly 
> make my mind up for me. so, bart, what are you doing friday night?! :o)

Very Tempting Paul... and I've allways wanted to visit New York!  :-)
Shame I'm kinda saving up for the new G5 Mac right now (that should
keep me busy for a few years).

Bart

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 12:11:26 +0200
From: Bart van Damme <bartvandamme@home.nl>
Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: art/sleeves

> I'm not thrilled with the Send artwork. I like the fact that its black, but
> I think the image is too bloody obvious and the typography is a bit wishy
> washy. Looks too much like an obscure german electronica CD.


"Obscure german electronica CD?" Sounds cool enough to me Tim!  ;-)
I think Send is indeed obvious, but obvious like Pink Flag is obvious,
in a minimalistic and very to-the-point manner.

Bart

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 05:46:58 -0700 (PDT)
From: Fergus Kelly <lockupyourhats@yahoo.com>
Subject: [idealcopy] Amen to that

Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 23:41:56 +0200
From: Bart van Damme <bartvandamme@home.nl>
Subject: Re: [idealcopy] [OT] Visions de l'amen

> Olivier Messiaen : Visions de l'amen
> 
> Another piano album. Two pianos. Very involving and
> moving music, brilliantly played, the pianos sound
> magnificent, the recording quality is stunning.
> Another one I can't stay away from. On the Montaigne
> label. /////  From 1994.

Good to hear someone like this as much as I do Fergus!
Wich version do you have? Edmund Niemann & Nurit 
Tilles?

Bart

/////  Maarten Bon & Reinbert De Leeuw

A pair of clogs ! :)

Fergus



__________________________________
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The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo.
http://search.yahoo.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 06:08:56 -0700 (PDT)
From: Fergus Kelly <lockupyourhats@yahoo.com>
Subject: [idealcopy] England's Hidden Rverse @ Helter Skelter

For those of you London based people interested in
David Keenan's book about Coil, Current 93 and Nurse
With Wound, called England's Hidden Reverse, Keenan
will be signing copies of the book in Helter Skelter
bookshop in Denmark St this Saturday (28th) at 4pm.

I have it on good authority that all the main
protagonists of the book will be there, so that
presents a rather unique opportunity to get it signed
by all of them ! (if ONLY I was in London... :( Ho
hum... )

For those of you, like myself, who are getting it on
mail order, be advised not to order it direct from
SAF, as they are charging a tenner more than World
Serpent, for some reason. 

When I went to check the postal rates for Ireland on
the SAF site, the postage came to... wait for it...
#6.66... Fuck's sake !! what are the odds eh ? Guess
that means SAF are The Beast... I told you to stay
away from 'em !!

Fergus

ps - Thanks a lot Graeme for the mention of my
Invisible City CD in your 'highly recommended' list.
You're a gentleman and a scholar !

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo.
http://search.yahoo.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 14:11:41 +0100
From: Alistair Tear <alistairtear@streetmanagement.org.uk>
Subject: RE: [idealcopy] Amen to that

Inspired by your (pl) enthusiam for this
record I looked for it in the local library...they
didn't have it but I got 'regards de l'enfant Jesus'
instead...
must say it sounded too dissonant and intense 
for these ears...

Is 'Visions' very different do y'know?

A





> 
> > Olivier Messiaen : Visions de l'amen
> > 
> > Another piano album. Two pianos. Very involving and
> > moving music, brilliantly played, the pianos sound
> > magnificent, the recording quality is stunning.
> > Another one I can't stay away from. On the Montaigne
> > label. /////  From 1994.
> 
> Good to hear someone like this as much as I do Fergus!
> Wich version do you have? Edmund Niemann & Nurit 
> Tilles?
> 
> Bart
> 
> /////  Maarten Bon & Reinbert De Leeuw
> 
> A pair of clogs ! :)
> 
> Fergus
> 
> 
> 
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo.
> http://search.yahoo.com
> 
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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 12:36:40 EDT
From: Eardrumbuz@aol.com
Subject: Re: [idealcopy] England's Hidden Rverse @ Helter Skelter

In a message dated 6/25/03 9:10:08 AM, lockupyourhats@yahoo.com writes:

>the postage came to... wait for it...
>#6.66

which of course is not the same in u.s. dollars. however, the amount it 
converts to is $11.18, and wait...on november 18, 1978 jim jones gave some special 
kool aid to 900 followers of his cult in guyana. okay, i know you folks would 
write it 18/11 and that would make it okay to order from saf this side of the 
pond, but still... ;o)

- -another the paul

www.mp3.com/winteracademy

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 12:44:33 EDT
From: MarkBursa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [idealcopy] England's Hidden Rverse @ Helter Skelter

<< which of course is not the same in u.s. dollars. however, the amount it 
 converts to is $11.18, and wait...on november 18, 1978 jim jones gave some 
special 
 kool aid to 900 followers of his cult in guyana. okay, i know you folks 
would 
 write it 18/11 and that would make it okay to order from saf this side of 
the 
 pond, but still... ;o) >>

I'm going to buy 23 copies on the 23rd of the month, at 23.23 (OK, they might 
not be open) and that will lead to the apocalypse. Or something. 

Or I could just send 23 envelopes full of blood, spunk and pubes to Genesis P 
Orridge.

(certain people here will know what I'm talking about!)

Mark

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 09:47:07 -0700
From: Ed Special <edspecial@digitalrealm.net>
Subject: Re: [idealcopy] England's Hidden Rverse @ Helter Skelter

On Wednesday, June 25, 2003, at 09:36 AM, Eardrumbuz@aol.com wrote:
> In a message dated 6/25/03 9:10:08 AM, lockupyourhats@yahoo.com writes:
>> the postage came to... wait for it...
>> #6.66
> which of course is not the same in u.s. dollars. however, the amount it
> converts to is $11.18, and wait...on november 18, 1978 jim jones gave 
> some special
> kool aid to 900 followers of his cult in guyana. okay, i know you 
> folks would
> write it 18/11 and that would make it okay to order from saf this side 
> of the
> pond, but still... ;o)
> -another the paul
> www.mp3.com/winteracademy

In the year 1811..........COMET!
http://comets.amsmeteors.org/comets/lcomets/1811.html
	Ed

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 11:04:22 EDT
From: MarkBursa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: art/sleeves

<< I have to say my favourite Wire sleeve is 'Turns and Strokes'.
 
 Its Beautiful, pure and ambiguous. Is it a new flag? is it a warning? Which
 image is supposed to be on the front and does it matter? I think i've spent
 more time looking at this one than actually playing the thing. >>

Which is, of course, the original cover of the Crazy About Love 12in.

Mark

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 13:21:59 EDT
From: RLynn9@aol.com
Subject: Re: [idealcopy] England's Hidden Rverse @ Helter Skelter

In a message dated 6/25/03 11:46:18 AM Central Daylight Time, 
MarkBursa@aol.com writes:

> Or I could just send 23 envelopes full of blood, spunk and pubes to Genesis 
P 
> 
>  Orridge.
>  
>  (certain people here will know what I'm talking about!)
>  
>  Mark


hahahaha...been lurking on the Coil list eh Mark?

RL

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 20:05:03 +0200
From: Bart van Damme <bartvandamme@home.nl>
Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Amen to that

>> Good to hear someone like this as much as I do Fergus!
>> Wich version do you have? Edmund Niemann & Nurit
>> Tilles?

> Maarten Bon & Reinbert De Leeuw
> A pair of clogs ! :)

And good clogs they are! Once I've seen them together playing Simeon ten
Holt's Canto Ostinato (Holland's number one minimalmusic piece)
Reinbert de Leeuw in other ensembles (either playing or conducting) I've
seen many times. 

Bart

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 11:11:42 -0700
From: Ed Special <edspecial@digitalrealm.net>
Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Amen to that

>> Maarten Bon & Reinbert De Leeuw
>> A pair of clogs ! :)
> And good clogs they are! Once I've seen them together playing Simeon 
> ten
> Holt's Canto Ostinato (Holland's number one minimalmusic piece)
> Reinbert de Leeuw in other ensembles (either playing or conducting) 
> I've
> seen many times.
>
> Bart

I've always wanted to visit Holland. Wooden shoe?











I'm sorry.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 21:48:53 +0200
From: "Jan J Noorda" <Ad_Roon@hotmail.com>
Subject: [idealcopy] Amen to that

> > >> Good to hear someone like this as much as I do Fergus!
> > >> Wich version do you have? Edmund Niemann & Nurit
> > >> Tilles?
> >
> > > Maarten Bon & Reinbert De Leeuw
> > > A pair of clogs ! :)
> >
> > And good clogs they are! Once I've seen them together playing Simeon ten
> > Holt's Canto Ostinato (Holland's number one minimalmusic piece)
> > Reinbert de Leeuw in other ensembles (either playing or conducting) I've
> > seen many times.
>
> > Bart
>
> Reinbert De Leeuw is director of the Schvnberg Ensemble. And as pianist
> probably famous of the a little to slow but very nice Satie piano-pieces.
> There was a fantastic documentary serie made in Netherlands where Reinbert
> is meeting- and performing music from Gorecki, Goebaidolina, Ustvolskaya,
> Maurizio Kagel and I can't remember that last one. A Canadian gay composer
> who died or even worse was murdered in Paris.
>
> Jan

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 22:41:48 +0200
From: "Jan J Noorda" <Ad_Roon@hotmail.com>
Subject: [idealcopy] Minimal Compact live in November

Original Line up; Crammed Discs will re-release "Deadly Weapons" plus a 12"
with remixes from the album " Deadly Weapons"; all before Sep. Crammed will
also work on add promotion for all of europe. Travel Party 7-8 people
Transmucial Festival is confirmed for Dec 4th; we're looking for approx 2-3
week before Transmusical all of europe. I hope they do not forget the
Netherlands.

After listening a 3 voor 12 programm called Vuile Toon, I heard that also Dirk
Pollack, well known from old Dutch band Mecano and accordeon player on the
first Minimal Compact albums brought out a solo album.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 22:48:33 +0200
From: Bart van Damme <bartvandamme@home.nl>
Subject: Re: [idealcopy] [OT] Amen to that

> Reinbert De Leeuw is director of the Schvnberg Ensemble. And as pianist
> probably famous of the a little to slow but very nice Satie piano-pieces.
> There was a fantastic documentary serie made in Netherlands where Reinbert
> is meeting- and performing music from Gorecki, Goebaidolina, Ustvolskaya,
> Maurizio Kagel and I can't remember that last one. A Canadian gay composer
> who died or even worse was murdered in Paris.


Yeah, the documentary series was made by Cherry Duyns and called
"De Toonmeesters". Messiaen seems to be missing from your list Jan.

Duyns' second series featured the murdered one, Claude Vivier, along with
Gyvrgy Ligeti & Klaas De Vries. I liked the first one better.

As an aside, I was standing right next to Cherry Duyns waiting outside for
the Macca concert the other month. Giant of a man! Also saw him a couple of
times in the theatre performing "Herenleed" (rather a poetic kind of Python)
with (painter/poet) Armando and the late and great poet Johnny van Doorn.
Shame about the language barrier, cause I think this would be right up lots
of IC-alleys here. You watched Herenleed too Jan? Perhaps Glenn during in
Belgian period?

(Praaaaalhans) Bart

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 23:54:56 +0100
From: "Keith Astbury" <keith.astbury10@virgin.net>
Subject: [idealcopy] document

Michael Stipe & Pete Buck discuss all REM LP's in this months Mojo. This is
what Buck says about Document.

"Side 1 is probably the best album side we ever did. Right through, it's like
a concept record, although god knows I wouldn't have said that at the time!
They're all songs concentrating on the America of the time, our perception of
it, even the Wire cover (Strange) fits well. Then side two is the weird stuff
and the hit single."

Keith

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 23:56:30 +0100
From: "Keith Astbury" <keith.astbury10@virgin.net>
Subject: Re: [idealcopy] [OT] Amen to that

> As an aside, I was standing right next to Cherry Duyns waiting outside for
> the Macca concert the other month. Giant of a man!
>
> (Praaaaalhans) Bart

So come on then Bart. You weren't sure whether to go and see Macca. To quote
the PSB's - Was it worth it?

K.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 20:27:28 EDT
From: MarkBursa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [idealcopy] document

> >>Document.
> 
> "Side 1 is probably the best album side we ever did. <<
> 
> Never mind that, I've just got back from seeing them at Brixton, and they 
> played the whole side 1 of Lifes Rich Pagent, in sequence, in the middle of the 
> set. Unannounced, and a total surprise. I'm still buzzing from it.
> 
> Mark

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 01:59:25 +0100
From: "Tim" <tim@kidsindestructible.com>
Subject: RE: [idealcopy] Recommended CDs from first half of 03

PJ Kane wrote:

> << Autechre remix Seefeel >>
>
> wha - uh - duh - MY GOD MAN WHERE DID YOU GET THIS!!!!!!!!  okay,
> sorry i'll calm down.  but seriously, i haven't heard of this and
> a (real) quick web search pulled up nothing.  more info please!

Its a 1 track CD, a remix of 'Spangle' obviously done when the original was
released and never released. A long, slow burning piece very much in the
style of early Autechre circa 'Amber' and as such...a little piece of
electronica history uncovered.


Not sure where Graeme got his. I got mine from Warp Records website.
More details here:

http://www.polyfusiarecords.com/catalogue.html

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 21:37:29 -0400
From: "Cambra, Robert" <Robert.Cambra@HARPERCOLLINS.com>
Subject: [idealcopy] WIRE in SF

Wire in San Francisco were very good, of course, but the performance didn't
quite take off like it did here last September, when everything fell into
place, it seemed, for everybody. I've never seen them not give their all but
I think they were compromise by--

The sound, which was muddy and distorted throughout,

The hall, one of my favorite, didn't seem big enough for them this time.

The audience--the hall was big enough for us. The turnout was not what I
expected, even for a Monday night. And the level of support for the band
seem lukewarm sometimes--or is it just me being distracted by the two people
in front of me who TALKED THOUGH THE ENTIRE PERFORMANCE, something which
would seem impossible. It was LOUD; haven't had my ears ringing the day
after a performance in years.

Still, Mr. Grey's concise groove is stunning, and it was fascinating to here
Strange, 106 Beats That and Surgeon's Girl live for the first time. Made me
realize how unusual and complicated they are for '77 punk--there are several
diverse narratives banging up against each other! Brilliant!

And who was that guy with the straw hat at the end who got Bruce to sign an
LP before he left the stage?

Back in November Miles wrote:  "I think sometime in 2000, I posted about the
sheer joy of wire live . . ."; and to that rayographique responded  ". . .
and it just keeps getting fucking better!"-and this got me thinking about
just what Wire are doing lately. They don't have youthful enthusiasm or
idiot glee going for them. These are middle-aged men making ascetic choices
about rock music and noise and executing them in life performance. I just
have to jump up and down and shout!

Robert (another)


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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 21:52:31 EDT
From: Eardrumbuz@aol.com
Subject: Re: [idealcopy] WIRE in SF

alright, i did it. charged the ol wire ticket to amex. so now what i'll need 
to do is either get to the city so late that i don't have time for the record 
stores...or, scour the used bins and avoid the new stuff. if i can get away 
with a couple of 5 dollar used discs, that'll be good enough for me. i can also 
help myself by passing on the 6 dollar beer at bowery ballroom. :o)

so, is anyone on this list going to the ny gig??? i know a guy from the 
factory list who will be there.

- -paul c.d.

www.mp3.com/winteracademy

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 09:36:16 +0200
From: Bart van Damme <bartvandamme@home.nl>
Subject: Re: [idealcopy]  Amen to that

> Cool you know them all Bart, those composers.

I've had both series on video for quite some time, that's all...
I wasn't familiar with the works of Maurizio Kagel, Claude Vivier and Klaas
De Vries before, nor did the tv program make me want to persue them.
Messiaen is in different league though, both edgy and transcendental.

Btw, did you see "Pitch" the other night Jan? It was about the "Bang on a
Can" generation, with comments by John Cage, Brian Eno, Philip Glass and
Steve Reich. Very interesting as I only had heard about BOAC.

Their artistic directors and founders Julia Wolfe, David Lang and Michael
Gordon seemed very much in awe of (clog) Louis Andriessen's work e.g. "De
Staat" (The State). Led Zeppelin fan Julia Wolfe's music seems well worth
investigating and that's just what I'll do. Anyone here has any of her
outlets? http://www.bangonacan.org/ads.html

Zappa (I'm not a fan, but he's interesting enough) was mentioned as an
influence for Michael Gordon here and the whole "rock meets classical" that
was fashionable during the early 80's. Therefor I kinda missed Glenn Branca
in this program, even only as a sideline. I've been listening to an old tape
of his The Ascension a lot lately... there's not only Sonic Youth in there,
but also a hint of Wire's A Touching Display... makes me shivering man!
http://www.glennbranca.com

> Yes fantastic, I still have somewhere a cassette with Johnny van Doorn's
> contributions on a Poetry International festival. and others. I have to
> laugh only by hearing his voice.

The Dutch Dylan Thomas on acid. I've read that next to the famous "Johnny de
Selfkicker" he also used "Electric Goebbels", "Electric Jesus" and "Meister
Chaos" as a pseudonym. Good man. Funny thing, both girlfriend and previous
one were very much charmed by his work (AND him!).

Bart (Clogrock Orange)

What do Louis Andriessen & Glenn Branca have in common?

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 04:12:30 -0400
From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com
Subject: Re: [idealcopy] document

glastonbury starts tomorrow , REM headlining friday night. suspect the london gig was a warm up for this really so maybe we'll all get to see the same show on tv tomorrow night? the life's rich pageant idea sounds good  , suspect they see this show as pretty critical to try and raise their profile. i'd guess after those last 2 lame albums the label is getting a bit twitchy about ever recouping that advance. 

likewise radiohead seem to be working very hard to punt the new disc , so suspect a pretty focussed performance from them too. should be a good weekend for the 'ol VHS. p 

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 04:12:27 -0400
From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com
Subject: Re: [idealcopy] document

glastonbury starts tomorrow , REM headlining friday night. suspect the london gig was a warm up for this really so maybe we'll all get to see the same show on tv tomorrow night? the life's rich pageant idea sounds good  , suspect they see this show as pretty critical to try and raise their profile. i'd guess after those last 2 lame albums the label is getting a bit twitchy about ever recouping that advance. 

likewise radiohead seem to be working very hard to punt the new disc , so suspect a pretty focussed performance from them too. should be a good weekend for the 'ol VHS. p 

------------------------------

End of idealcopy-digest V6 #186
*******************************