From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V6 #163 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Wednesday, June 4 2003 Volume 06 : Number 163 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [idealcopy] Re: belew etc. [HowardJSpencer@aol.com] [idealcopy] Re:[OT] C'man Stick (was Re:KCrimson)Tangent 2A Tangent:Tim Buckley ["Derek White" ] Re: [idealcopy] Re: belew etc. [Eardrumbuz@aol.com] [idealcopy] happy tree news...sooooo OT but sooooo funny [Eardrumbuz@aol.] RE: [idealcopy] Re: between-song banter ["Tim" > Glad someone else likes "Big Electric Cat". This is a first for me. I don't know the whole lone rhino album - presume "I am what I am" isn't THAT one? Oh god, you've set me off now. Working three day weeks is a wonderful thing... I yam what I yam I like prog rock You think it's shitty I play rambling solos And write about elves In twelve minute ditties There's one song That takes up a whole fucking box-set Widdly widdly widdly wee and Move on down to Wimborne, Dorset With concept album in the can I can shout out I yam what I yee-am Actually I do like some of Fripp's solo stuff - spent my thirtieth birthday watching hip do frippertronics in the Festival hall foyer in a white cardy. Seemed somehow appropriate. Which reminds me ... when Toyah did that Channel 4 programme about "thex" it set me wondering about her and Wobert - like, does he just do one thrust, then switch the echo unit on, then bugger off back to Nashville? Any thoughts? Howard ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2003 12:50:56 +0000 From: "Derek White" Subject: [idealcopy] Re:[OT] C'man Stick (was Re:KCrimson)Tangent 2A Tangent:Tim Buckley >The inventor of the Stick, Emmett Chapman, actually used to play it in live >editions of Tim Buckley's Starsailor-era band. Would have been very >interesting to hear some of these >performances, but, alas, none were ever >professionally recorded. Rumor is that there were some studio tracks cut as >well, but these don't seem to be around either. It does seem that,sadly, Tim Buckley left very little behind in the way of either unreleased pro-recorded tracks, or anything much in the way of live performance film/VT. I recall when the last OGWT compilation shows aired here in the UK, that whispering Bob said Tim's performance of 'Dolphins' (along with one other song recorded for that program) was the only known 'live' footage of the man. (Do any IC'ers know of any more?) And there wasn't a stick in sight, unfortunately. _________________________________________________________________ On the move? Get Hotmail on your mobile phone http://www.msn.co.uk/msnmobile ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2003 09:00:35 EDT From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: [idealcopy] more Soft Cell/Marc Almond even if i wasn't entertained by Soft Cell/Marc & The Mambas/Marc Almond & the Willing Sinners/Marc Almond/Dave Ball/The Grid......i would still be thankful that i listened to them..because otherwise, i would not have discovered,read, and been entertained by two fabulous novels by John Rechy: "Numbers" and "City of Night" Robert np - Nurse With Wound "The Musty Odour of Pierced Rectums" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2003 14:02:09 +0100 From: Alistair Tear Subject: RE: [idealcopy] Re:[OT] C'man Stick (was Re:KCrimson)Tangent 2A T angent:Tim Buckley Hi Derek (no longer 'white derek', i see) ;-] On the Tim Buckley website http://www.timbuckley.com/ there are eight or so video clips including Dolphins from the OGWT & the sublime Song to the Siren from the Monkees TV show dunno if there are any sticks featured tho' later A > > It does seem that,sadly, Tim Buckley left very little behind > in the way of > either unreleased pro-recorded tracks, or anything much in > the way of live > performance film/VT. I recall when the last OGWT compilation > shows aired > here in the UK, that whispering Bob said Tim's performance of > 'Dolphins' > (along with one other song recorded for that program) was the > only known > 'live' footage of the man. > (Do any IC'ers know of any more?) > > And there wasn't a stick in sight, unfortunately. > > _________________________________________________________________ > On the move? Get Hotmail on your mobile phone > http://www.msn.co.uk/msnmobile > ************************************************************************* The contents of the e-mail and any transmitted files are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. Transport for London Street Management hereby excludes any warranty and any liability as to the quality or accuracy of the contents of this e-mail and any attached transmitted files. If you are not the intended recipient, be advised that you have received this e-mail in error and that any use, dissemination, forwarding, printing or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please notify postmaster@Streetmanagement.org.uk. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept for the presence of computer viruses. ************************************************************************* ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2003 09:13:46 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re:[OT] C'man Stick (was Re:KCrimson)Tangent 2A Tangent:Tim B... << whispering Bob said Tim's performance of 'Dolphins' (along with one other song recorded for that program) was the only known 'live' footage of the man. (Do any IC'ers know of any more?) And there wasn't a stick in sight, unfortunately. >> I doubt whether a stick would have enhanced that performance!! Mark ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2003 13:55:45 +0000 From: "Derek White" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re:[OT] C'man Stick & a Tangent 2A Tangent:Tim Buckley Re Tim Buckley & The Stick............. ><< whispering Bob said Tim's performance of 'Dolphins' was the only known >'live' footage of the man. > (Do any IC'ers know of any more?) > > And there wasn't a stick in sight, unfortunately. >> > >I doubt whether a stick would have enhanced that performance!! /////// Oh,sure. It would have been more than a little out of context! No, when I said 'unfortunately', I meant in terms of a sighting to aid our current discussion of 'Le Stick'. Hmm. "Dolphins" as a prog-rock workout? Nah, can't quite picture that myself, either! Although, as John Wetton and some other occasional proggers were his band for the night, we may have gotten off lightly! ;-) Later, but not with JH, Derek. - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- n.p. WIRE: "SEND": :-0 Hurray! It arrived this morning from PE central: now I get to hear what you guys have been talking about for weeks! That'll teach me to wait & hope I could pick one up cheaper & quicker at the Barbie gig!........ _________________________________________________________________ On the move? Get Hotmail on your mobile phone http://www.msn.co.uk/msnmobile ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2003 14:09:37 +0000 From: "Derek White" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] Re:[OT] C'man Stick, Tangentally 2 Tim Buckley >From: Alistair Tear >Hi Derek (no longer 'white derek', i see) ;-] Yep! I finally sorted my hotmail setting out. Not exactly the taxing IT excercise I thought it may have been! Can you feel the warmth of my red face from there?? ;-) > >On the Tim Buckley website >http://www.timbuckley.com/ > >there are eight or so video clips /////// Eight! so IT SEEMS that whispering Bob was speaking with forked tongue! >there are eight or so video clips including Dolphins from the OGWT & the >sublime 'Song to the Siren' >from the Monkees TV show : dunno if there are >any sticks featured tho'. ////// Well if there is , it's a bonus. That there's more VT of Tim B in existence is a pleasant surprise: :-) he's someone I missed the first time around...... Derek _________________________________________________________________ Tired of 56k? Get a FREE BT Broadband connection http://www.msn.co.uk/specials/btbroadband ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2003 10:38:29 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re:[OT] C'man Stick, Tangentally 2 Tim Buckley << >Hi Derek (no longer 'white derek', i see) ;-] Yep! I finally sorted my hotmail setting out. Not exactly the taxing IT excercise I thought it may have been! Can you feel the warmth of my red face from there?? ;-) >> \\\\\Ah, but we'll always think of you as White Derek!! Mark ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2003 10:43:43 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re:[OT] C'man Stick & a Tangent 2A Tangent:Tim Buckley << Hmm. "Dolphins" as a prog-rock workout? Nah, can't quite picture that myself, either! Although, as John Wetton and some other occasional proggers were his band for the night, we may have gotten off lightly! >> The backing band on Dolphins was Family, if I recall. They did pretty much unrehearsed, which is impressive. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2003 08:44:14 -0700 From: "Paul Pietromonaco" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] [OT] Tangent 2A:Tim Buckley > > It does seem that,sadly, Tim Buckley left very little behind > > in the way of > > either unreleased pro-recorded tracks, or anything much in > > the way of live > > performance film/VT. I > > (Do any IC'ers know of any more?) > > > > On the Tim Buckley website > http://www.timbuckley.com/ > > there are eight or so video clips including > Dolphins from the OGWT & the sublime > Song to the Siren from the Monkees TV show Just to add to that, there is an excellent videography on the site: http://www.timbuckley.com/videography.html that lists most of the performances that I'm aware of. This dovetails nicely with the list in Dream Brother - an excellent biography of Tim (and his son Jeff) by David Browne. Cheers, Paul ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2003 11:46:54 -0400 From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: belew etc. In a message dated 6/3/2003 5:09:15 AM Eastern Standard Time, HowardJSpencer writes: > Which reminds me ... when Toyah did that Channel 4 programme about "thex" it > set me wondering about her and Wobert - like, does he just do one thrust, then > switch the echo unit on, then bugger off back to Nashville? > Any thoughts? ///i do recall reading somewhere that ol' rob was a bit of a stallion in times gone by. don't know if that's "on the record" though.......p ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2003 08:53:13 -0700 From: "Paul Pietromonaco" Subject: Re: [idealcopy][OT] C'man Stick & a Tangent 2A Tangent:Tim Buckley > The backing band on Dolphins was Family, if I recall. They did pretty much > unrehearsed, which is impressive. > No kidding? (runs to DVD player with PAL/NTSC converter and pops in OGWT DVD) Huh - so that's what they look like. That does seem to be a very young John Wetton on bass. Wow - that's a piece of trivia for the memory banks! Thanks! :) Cheers, Paul ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2003 16:54:58 +0100 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re:[OT] C'man Stick (was Re:KCrimson)Tangent 2A Tangent:Tim Buckley > It does seem that,sadly, Tim Buckley left very little behind in the way of > either unreleased pro-recorded tracks, or anything much in the way of live > performance film/VT. I recall when the last OGWT compilation shows aired > here in the UK, that whispering Bob said Tim's performance of 'Dolphins' > (along with one other song recorded for that program) was the only known > 'live' footage of the man. > (Do any IC'ers know of any more?) There was old black and white footage of Tim doing I'm Coming Home Again on the Sound of the 60's programme back in the early 90's, which I seem to recall was live but as I haven't watched it in a while I may be wrong here. Keith NP Mercury Rev - all is dream ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2003 11:57:26 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy][OT] C'man Stick & a Tangent 2A Tangent:Tim Buckley >>Huh - so that's what they look like. That does seem to be a very young John Wetton on bass.<< It isn't. I checked on TB's web site and the band is as follows: Charlie Whitney (guitar and vocals), Ian Wallace (drums), Tim Hinkley (bass) Mark ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2003 17:02:25 +0100 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] [OT] Tangent 2A:Tim Buckley > Just to add to that, there is an excellent videography on the site: > > http://www.timbuckley.com/videography.html > Just checked this. I think the performance I mentioned was from the Julie Felix show. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2003 09:06:42 -0700 From: "Paul Pietromonaco" Subject: Re: [idealcopy][OT] C'man Stick & a Tangent 2A Tangent:Tim Buckley >>Huh - so that's what they look like. That does seem to be a very young John >>Wetton on bass. > > It isn't. I checked on TB's web site and the band is as follows: > > Charlie Whitney (guitar and vocals), Ian Wallace (drums), Tim Hinkley (bass) > Hee hee - I *just* went there and noticed the same thing! Thanks Mark! :) Cheers, Paul ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2003 16:41:40 +0000 From: "Derek White" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re:[OT] C'man Stick & a Tangent 2A Tangent:Tim Buckley WT >MarkBursa@aol.com wrote: >The backing band on Dolphins was Family, if I recall. They did pretty much >unrehearsed, which is impressive. ////// It was. To have carried it off with the required delicacy is a task that would probably have beaten heaps of other musicians of that time. Didn't know it was Family per se, though: I think Wetton, for sure was there, as was Rick Grech. Not a band I'd always recognise, without Roger Chapman up front looking like he may brain someone with a flailing mic stand.......;-) Derek W. _________________________________________________________________ Use MSN Messenger to send music and pics to your friends http://www.msn.co.uk/messenger ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2003 17:04:29 +0000 From: "Derek White" Subject: Re: [idealcopy][OT] Re: Fripp's stick-y activities........ > > Which reminds me ... when Toyah did that Channel 4 programme about >"thex" it > > set me wondering about her and Wobert > >///i do recall reading somewhere that ol' rob was a bit of a stallion in >times gone by. don't know if that's "on the record" though.......p It'th a mythtery........allow me to put the (admittedly thin) prosecution case: Exhibit 1: In interveiws w/ Fripp in the NME circa 72/73, I remember him saying when asked why Crimson were about to go 'dormant' that the reason was: < affects 'Dourzetshyre' accent> " Because there are a few ladies (note plural form) down there that I intend to lay...." 8-) Coming from a Robert Plant or someone, this could be dismissed as more HM bragadocio, but with Fripp, he's such an understated kind of guy, you tend to believe him in this instance...... Exhibit 2 : the Pete Sinfield-penned song 'Ladies of the road' off 'Islands' which appears to celebrate KC tour-party R'n'R carnality (although PS's stuff is so florid, you never quite know.) ;-) D.W. _________________________________________________________________ Use MSN Messenger to send music and pics to your friends http://www.msn.co.uk/messenger ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2003 18:18:51 +0100 From: Ian Grant Subject: [idealcopy] Re: Broadcast/Bardots At 04:30 03/06/03 -0400, Fernando wrote: >Oh, what has come of the Bardots... in wanting to thin my stuff, I >was considering getting rid of my Bardots stuff (sure cannot get >money for it now). I only got their first album and 3 or 4 CD >singles. Was there more? There certainly was more, yes. They disappeared completely for a small eternity after the first album had rather been lost amid the collapse of their record label and the subsequent single (the wonderfully histrionic if slightly tinny "We Are Fiasco") had enjoyed a fairly lukewarm reception. But they came back eventually, albeit briefly. The second album - "V-Neck", which was preceded by a seven-inch single called "Carrion" - wasn't released until 1995. Both are, as far as I know, still available from Che Records. "V-Neck" is flawed but spectacular, using a much broader and yet more restrained palette than its predecessor while retaining the band's characteristic sense of melodrama, romanticism and intellectual arrogance. Even allowing for Lloyd Cole influences and occasional signs of a restricted studio budget, it's pretty much everything that they'd promised to be...which is quite a lot, frankly. Unfortunately, by the time it was finally released, they'd split due to the complete lack of interest from everyone apart from a handful of obsessives (that'll be me, then). Since then, Krzysztof Fijalkowski (guitar) has turned up in Polak (www.polak.co.uk), alongside his brother - Pete Fijalkowski of Adorable infamy. They've now released two albums...not up to Bardots standards, but still quite enjoyable. Simon Dunford (vocals and general masterminding) played keyboards with Polak for a while before leaving to pursue a proper career...journalism's gain is music's loss, to my mind. Ahem. There you go, then...far more information that you needed.... Cheers, ig. np: Aesop Rock - Labor (sic) Days ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2003 18:47:46 EDT From: Eardrumbuz@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re: belew etc. In a message dated 6/3/03 6:10:29 AM, HowardJSpencer@aol.com writes: >Which reminds me ... when Toyah did that Channel 4 programme about "thex" >it >set me wondering about her and Wobert - like, does he just do one thrust, >then >switch the echo unit on, then bugger off back to Nashville? Any thoughts? would make a funny cartoon :o) - -paul c.d. www.mp3.com/winteracademy ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2003 18:47:34 EDT From: Eardrumbuz@aol.com Subject: [idealcopy] happy tree news...sooooo OT but sooooo funny thought i'd pass this along since many copyists seemed to enjoy the one bart hooked us up with...as much as i love these toons, i have to say it's not as entertaining when you watch them all in one sitting :oP - -paul c.d. For a limited time only, all the Happy Tree Friends episodes ever made are available to our fans! Check out this special two-week run now, cuz they won't be live long! Click here to watch now! http://www.happytreefriends.com/watch_episodes/index.html www.mp3.com/winteracademy ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 01:47:49 +0100 From: "Tim" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] Re: between-song banter Another The Tim (Tim Four Asterisks) wrote: > I've seen Freddie Starr with Renee & Renata(?)...oh yes it's true..just > don't ask why....... > FS in song banter was tops!! Come on lets hear the story. Did R&R have any other songs beyond "Save Your Love" (This was number one on the UK charts...in the dark, dark 1980s) As for Freddie Starr, it seems that, contrary to popular demand, he has managed to get past customs from Costa Del Skol and is back on tour (at least according to a poster I saw in Llandudno last month) He's no doubt doing the same act Tim **** saw with Renee & Renata (presumably in the mid-late 80s?). (i.e. cutting-edge, contemporary impersonations such as Hitler, Max Wall, Norman Wisdom, Dick Emery and Frank Spencer interspersed with 'observational' stuff about getting divorced in the 80s) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2003 14:47:40 +0800 From: "Tim ****" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] Re: between-song banter Well i think that either of these three items were involved just take your pick: Drugs,Money or a bet. Needlesstosay Mr Starr (IMHO) was very funny in a 1970's TV pre Fa Cup final build-up, prancing around as Hitler & Wellies sortof way, complete with speeding up/slowing down voices & Elvis impersonations.. Renea(?) et el were support..gawd knows what they sang obviously their 'Hit' ice cream melodious toon was belted out at a fair whack, though, i think we were skinning up at the time...lol! Anyone remember Ken Goodwin (The Comedians) well we saw him also around this time at Glentham 'Chestnuts' says it all really..comic genius! Who Do You Do? Tim - ----Original Message Follows---- From: "Tim" To: Subject: RE: [idealcopy] Re: between-song banter Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 01:47:49 +0100 Another The Tim (Tim Four Asterisks) wrote: > I've seen Freddie Starr with Renee & Renata(?)...oh yes it's true..just > don't ask why....... > FS in song banter was tops!! Come on lets hear the story. Did R&R have any other songs beyond "Save Your Love" (This was number one on the UK charts...in the dark, dark 1980s) As for Freddie Starr, it seems that, contrary to popular demand, he has managed to get past customs from Costa Del Skol and is back on tour (at least according to a poster I saw in Llandudno last month) He's no doubt doing the same act Tim **** saw with Renee & Renata (presumably in the mid-late 80s?). (i.e. cutting-edge, contemporary impersonations such as Hitler, Max Wall, Norman Wisdom, Dick Emery and Frank Spencer interspersed with 'observational' stuff about getting divorced in the 80s) _________________________________________________________________ Get mobile Hotmail. Go to http://ninemsn.com.au/mobilecentral/signup.asp ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 08:42:33 +0100 From: Alistair Tear Subject: [idealcopy] well ot - Wobble reviews thames book Just that... Jah Wobble reviews a book on the river Thames http://enjoyment.independent.co.uk/books/reviews/story.jsp?story=412145 A ************************************************************************* The contents of the e-mail and any transmitted files are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. Transport for London Street Management hereby excludes any warranty and any liability as to the quality or accuracy of the contents of this e-mail and any attached transmitted files. If you are not the intended recipient, be advised that you have received this e-mail in error and that any use, dissemination, forwarding, printing or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please notify postmaster@Streetmanagement.org.uk. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept for the presence of computer viruses. ************************************************************************* ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V6 #163 *******************************