From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V6 #159 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Sunday, June 1 2003 Volume 06 : Number 159 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [idealcopy] Re:Stereophonics/Vivid riot/up to the sun/half-eaten [HowardJ] [idealcopy] more live banter ["Keith Astbury" ] Re: [idealcopy] Re:Stereophonics/More Bad Later ["ian s jackson" ] RE: [idealcopy] Re:Stereophonics/More Bad Later ["Tim" > The latter were on "later" last night. I don't pay these sort of pseudo indie types much heed and wouldn't expect to like them, but they really were carpet-chewingly awful. Bob Harris would love them - earnest musos with nothing to say. There seemed to be a bit of confusion about Vivid riot of red. This is the live version of Up to the Sun that was on Snakedrill and the CD (at least, the one I have) of Ideal Copy too. Vivid riot of red was on the b side of the Ahead !2" and is also on the Ideal Copy CD. On another topic, who does the vocalising on Half Eaten? Graham? Howard ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 31 May 2003 12:52:21 +0100 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: [idealcopy] more live banter Some performers are great at speaking to the audience. I remember Marc Bolan inviting the whole of the Manchester Apollo back to his dressing room and offering to 'screw' the lot of us. Obviously that would prove rather knackering if not imposssible, but it raised a cheer all the same. Julian Cope is another, though as someone who's seen him in the region of 20 times, this depends very much on his mood on the night (and I've seen it change within a performance when he's considered the audience have got a bit too, shall we say, cheeky!). Whereas before I ever saw Wire live I'd read that they didn't do much on stage, pretty much like Television I'm led to believe. But the few times I've seen them in recent years have changed my opinion somewhat - they don't do conversations but they do engage with the audience in their own way - particularly Brighton last year - and sorry to harp on about that gig but it was a particularly wondrous occasion. OK the technical problesm at the start maybe contributed towards that but Colin and Graham in particular connected with the audience just through their performance. As for Dylan - I'm not a fan, but if he didn't want to speak to the audience I wouldn't be particularly arsed as long as I felt he was putting something into it. A good Dylan performance for me - on tv - was that one about 5-6 yrs ago at some awards when Dylan was performing a rather decent track that sounded more like Beefheart than his own horrible whine, and a guy in the audience got up on stage and started dancing to the side of BD. Cue Dylan looking rather bemused and continuing with his performance whilst this bloke larged it up, until the camera cut away for a moment and then on returning to BD, the guy had mysteriously disappeared! Keith - ----- Original Message ----- From: Ari Britt To: Sent: Friday, May 30, 2003 10:35 AM Subject: [idealcopy] Tim Wrote (was think tanl) > Whats wrong with a band being 'Detached'? > I want to be excited by the performance...I don't want to make friends > withthe fucking band! > Be aloof and stroppy (like Wire)! I don't want to be thanked for buying > tickets..just play some music and stimulate my brain...thats what i've > paid for. > ........................ > I agree Tim,but some bands/artists take this to the extreme,for example I saw Bob Dylan around 12 years ago and he walked onto the stage,played his music and walked off,no hello to the audience who had pais a lot to see him,no intro of his fellow musicians who were all better than he was,no intro to his music like Robert Smith does and no thanx for coming,I've never bought or listened to his music since.Ari > Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM). ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 31 May 2003 05:11:49 -0700 (PDT) From: Ari Britt Subject: Fwd: [idealcopy] Re: between-song banter Tim/Paul wrote >Low are the only band I've ever seen who are good >at between-song banter, very funny and made more funny by the intense >atmosphere while they are playing... i haven't had the pleasure of seeing them live yet, but for my money, grant lee phillips is the single most entertaining stage performer when yer talkin between-song banter...and his songs are pretty darn tasty too ;o) - -another the paul: Christine Kane (alt.folk) oft has the audience rolling in the aisles with laughter with her stories/jokes between songs,I love that.............Ari Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM). ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 31 May 2003 13:15:11 +0100 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] ot: ogwt/soft cell 2: the slagging......... > << One thing tho' 'Red Stripes'? > You've beer on the brain, m'boy..............;-) >> > > > nope...i think they suck eggs...i don't understand what all the fuss is > about... > > RL I couldn't for some time either, but Elephant is really good. at least 3 great tracks.... ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 31 May 2003 08:54:58 EDT From: Tisbili@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] ot: ogwt/soft cell 2: the slagging......... dan pointed out: > i think the fuss, at least in this instance, is that you're probably > talking > about the *white* stripes. red stripe is, i think, a jamaican beer. Not to pile on or anything, but as far as beer goes, red stripe sucks ass, too. It's like sex in a canoe. (F***ing near water). BillE np: Hafler Trio - Intooutof ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 31 May 2003 09:10:26 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re:Stereophonics/Vivid riot/up to the sun/half-eaten << There seemed to be a bit of confusion about Vivid riot of red. This is the live version of Up to the Sun that was on Snakedrill and the CD (at least, the one I have) of Ideal Copy too. Vivid riot of red was on the b side of the Ahead !2" and is also on the Ideal Copy CD. >> Don't know why it was retitled on the album. On live setlists from the time it was always down as Vivid riot of red, so I've always called it that. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 31 May 2003 09:20:12 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] more live banter For cheerful and amusing banyter, Teenage Fanclub's Norman Blake takes some beating. But kings of onstage chat have to be New Order. One the one hand you've got Hooky threatening to "rip yer fookin' head off" or some such while on the other you have the surreal mind of Barney Sumner. Best ever onstage quote goes someting like this. "Everybody move back...there's people at the front getting crushed. [pause] They're not really, I just always wanted to say that." As for Wire, it's not been noted before that Colin observed true historical accuracy at the pre-Barbivcan Pink Flag warm-up gig by saying "Pay attention" before Reuters kicked in. A top moment! Always been a fan of Graham's "This...is entitled....Another... The letter" intro style onold bootlegs. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 31 May 2003 09:33:05 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] ot: ogwt/soft cell 2: the slagging......... << > Transistor Blast by XTC! Disk 4? What's that? >> XTC at the BBC - 4CD set of peel sessions/in concert recordings from 77-80. Disk 4 is live 1980 (Drums & Wires era). Mark ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 31 May 2003 09:38:58 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] ot: the slagging......... << no, but some of them happen to be the best thing that's happened to post punk since, um, ur...post punk. while radio 4 may not be the deepest band on the planet, they are a heck of a lotta fun. i'll be seeing them next week. >> There's a danger of "post-punk" becoming seen as representing slightly bouncy funked-up guitar pop. That was just one of many diverse threads at the time - which is what made the period so interesting. Radio 4 and The Rapture are OK, but sound like less challenging versions of teh Au Pairs or the Bush Tetras. As for funked-up post-punk experimentalism, the lot of 'em would have been blown off stage by a bunch of 40-something Mancunians at the ICA on Thursday. If you do get a chance o see Biting Tongues, take it. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 31 May 2003 09:49:48 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] OT - DJ Bursacrap << Sadly, despite my promise to report back on DJ Bursacrap's performance it turned out that he wasn't due on until after the bands and I had to leave to get a train - how did it go Mark? >> Saw you sneaking out. No stamina, some people. Went very well - this is what I played (not necessarily in that order!) Got chucked off at 1am when the bar closed. Cabaret Voltaire - Crackdown 23 Skidoo - Coup He Said - Pump ACR - Flight New Order - Everythingbs Gone Green The Fall - Fantastic Life This Heat - Health & Efficiency Manicured Noise - Faith The Names - Nightshift Artery - Afterwards The Fall - Wings Section 25 - Dirty Disco New Order - Cries & Whispers Wire - Second length Pere Ubu - Final solution Clock DVA - 4 hours Gang of Four - Hebd send in the Army Comsat Angels - Independence Day ACR - Do the du Cabs - Walls of Jericho Section 25 - Looking from a hilltop (megamix) The Passage - Troops Out Crispy Ambulance - 4 minutes from the frontline Mark ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 31 May 2003 10:57:55 EDT From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] ot: ogwt/soft cell 2: the slagging......... In a message dated 5/31/03 7:56:26 AM Central Daylight Time, Tisbili@aol.com writes: > Not to pile on or anything, but as far as beer goes, red stripe sucks ass, > too. > > It's like sex in a canoe. (F***ing near water). > > BillE > np: Hafler Trio - Intooutof > yeah, but i got it for free from a friend who owns a Jamaican restaurant in my neighborhood..... RL now watching: The World, The Flesh, and The Devil (1959 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 31 May 2003 14:08:42 EDT From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re:Stereophonics/ In a message dated 5/31/03 11:32:15 AM GMT Daylight Time, HowardJSpencer@aol.com writes: > The latter were on "later" last night. I don't pay these sort of pseudo > indie types much heed and wouldn't expect to like them, but they really were > > carpet-chewingly awful. Bob Harris would love them - earnest musos with > nothing to > say /////i used to think it was a close 4-way tie for the dullest rock band in britain , but recent perfromances form these clowns have left the manics , travis and ash trailing in their wake. this weeks guardian gave their new album a good kicking , quoting the magnificent lyric ; "i stood where oswald fired his shot / in my opinion there's a bigger plot". what can you say to that? mind you , the vines are worse. p ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 31 May 2003 15:07:50 EDT From: Eardrumbuz@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] ot: xtc stagefright......... In a message dated 5/31/03 4:03:08 AM, CHRISWIRE@aol.com writes: > >I have seen them live & they were great. Twice.Shame Andy Partridge has >stage >fright.Weird thing in a musician but he's not an exception I imagine. i was lucky to see them once too. great show, with scratched film being projected onto them throughout the show (from what i remember). the set list was probably almost exactly the one on the transistor cd, from the black sea tour. i've corresponded with windy (of windy & carl) and she has said that she hates going to big cities, not afraid of the stage or the crowd, just the city. i guess they're managing ok, but that does make it difficult to tour when many venues for indie bands are gonna be in big cities. - -another the paul www.mp3.com/winteracademy ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 31 May 2003 15:25:36 EDT From: Eardrumbuz@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re:Stereophonics/Vivid riot/up to the sun/half-eaten In a message dated 5/31/03 6:32:15 AM, HowardJSpencer@aol.com writes: > >There seemed to be a bit of confusion about Vivid riot of red. This is >the >live version of Up to the Sun that was on Snakedrill and the CD (at least, >the >one I have) of Ideal Copy too. Vivid riot of red was on the b side of >the >Ahead !2" and is also on the Ideal Copy CD. yeah, i have the 2 12"ers. that sounds right to me. i've seen the ideal copy cd but thought maybe there was a different version on there or on a snakedrill cd or something. - -another the paul www.mp3.com/winteracademy ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 31 May 2003 15:31:48 EDT From: Eardrumbuz@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] more live banter In a message dated 5/31/03 7:51:29 AM, keith.astbury10@virgin.net writes: >this depends very much on his mood on the night (and I've seen it change > >within a performance when he's considered the audience have got a bit too, > >shall we say, cheeky!). robyn hitchcock as well! a couple next to me, right up front no less, were trying to have a conversation while he played and sang, and as with conversation in a loud room, they kept talking louder and louder to be heard over the music. well, if his gaze towards them didn't send daggers flying into their stupid heads i don't know what would :o) - -paul c.d. n.p. martin gore-by this river (very nice, considering i am no d.m. fan) www.mp3.com/winteracademy ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 31 May 2003 15:37:09 EDT From: Eardrumbuz@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] ot: the slagging......... In a message dated 5/31/03 9:40:22 AM, MarkBursa@aol.com writes: > If >you do get a chance o see Biting Tongues, take it. absolutely, mark. you know i won't miss a chance at seeing them :o) btw, calla's set this wednesday is billed as acoustic. i'd certainly prefer to see them play plugged in, but this should be interesting too. and it may be a nice contrast to the noise radio 4 and rogers sisters will make. - -paul c.d. www.mp3.com/winteracademy ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 31 May 2003 21:44:46 +0100 From: Andrew Walkingshaw Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re:Stereophonics/ On Sat, May 31, 2003 at 02:08:42PM -0400, PaulRabjohn@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 5/31/03 11:32:15 AM GMT Daylight Time, > HowardJSpencer@aol.com writes: > > > > The latter were on "later" last night. I don't pay these sort of pseudo > > indie types much heed and wouldn't expect to like them, but they really were > > > > carpet-chewingly awful. Bob Harris would love them - earnest musos with > > nothing to > > say > > /////i used to think it was a close 4-way tie for the dullest rock band in > britain , but recent perfromances form these clowns have left the manics , > travis and ash I really liked "Kung Fu" when I was fifteen. It's pretty good trainer-wheels guitar pop, IMO, though there's not even any hidden *shallows*, let alone depth. Travis are too inoffensive for me to really be annoyed by. Maybe this is my failing, but they're just too obviously *reasonable* people for me to wish pain on them in quite the way the Stereophonics make me want to, though I don't really care for Travis's music at all. > mind you , the vines are worse. p The Vines are a soap opera masquerading as a band, only with lower production values. - - Andrew - -- home - email: andrew@lexical.org.uk | http://www.lexical.org.uk/ work - email: adw27@esc.cam.ac.uk | http://www.esc.cam.ac.uk/ radio - 11pm Wednesdays, "Random Walk" | http://www.cur1350.co.uk/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 31 May 2003 22:01:01 +0100 From: "Ian B" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re:Stereophonics/More Bad Later > In a message dated 5/31/03 11:32:15 AM GMT Daylight Time, > HowardJSpencer@aol.com writes: > > > > The latter were on "later" last night. Yep, grim. Cale was reasonably interesting though. Is the near slippage into 'Born is the king of Israel' intentional? Worst haircut award has to go to the front man from Dandy Warhols. It looked like an outrageous comb-over ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 31 May 2003 22:03:38 +0100 From: "Ian B" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re:Stereophonics/Vivid riot/up to the sun/half-eaten - ----- Original Message ----- From: > Don't know why it was retitled on the album. On live setlists from the time > it was always down as Vivid riot of red, so I've always called it that. > > Mark Perhaps the rule is Up To The Sun in the studio and VROR when live. When they did this at Manchester in 1987 Bruce Gilbert jumped off stage to take photographs and nearly did himeself an injury (stop me if you've heard this one before...) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 31 May 2003 22:05:41 +0100 From: "Ian B" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re:..../half-eaten - ----- Original Message ----- From: > On another topic, who does the vocalising on Half Eaten? Graham? > > Howard > Bruce Gilbert, I reckon ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 31 May 2003 22:18:11 +0100 From: "ian s jackson" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re:Stereophonics/More Bad Later From: "Ian B" >Cale was reasonably interesting though. Is the near slippage >into 'Born is the king of Israel' intentional? >Worst haircut award has to go to the front man from Dandy Warhols. It >looked like an outrageous comb-over having said that...does anyone else think that Cale is increasingly looking like a cooler version of Frankie Howerd with that hair-do of his...??? still, what he did was interesting nonetheless...him and the Mongolian (...???) songstress being the highlights of last nights weekly debacle... ian.s.j. _________________________________________________________________ Get Hotmail on your mobile phone http://www.msn.co.uk/msnmobile ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 31 May 2003 22:52:06 +0100 From: "Andrew Lumbard" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] ot: ogwt/soft cell 2: the slagging......... >> In a message dated 31/05/2003 03:39:07 GMT Daylight Time, >> edspecial@digitalrealm.net writes: >> >> >> > However, as I write this I am listening to Transistor Blast by XTC! >> > > Disk 4. >> > > Now there is a band I'd love to have seen live. >> > Chris replied >> I have seen them live & they were great. Twice.Shame Andy >> Partridge has stage >> fright.Weird thing in a musician but he's not an exception I imagine. >> chris Yep, caught them twice as well. Probably same tours as you. York & Sheffield Uni. Seem to remember blinding versions of Are You Receiving Me? & Science Friction. Also a memorable support band, by the name of Sore Throat at Sheffield...now what happened to them? Rudi supporting at York. Always hoped that AndyP would crack his stage fright and get out there again. AndyL np Amnesiac...that Jonathan Ross has a lot to answer for! >> >> NP Puressence - Walking Dead cds ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 31 May 2003 23:04:33 +0100 From: "Andrew Lumbard" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] more live banter We just witnessed some excellent banter from Ed Harcourt. The highlight being a conversation with a student who claimed to be writing a song about life as a student. After his next song, he went back to the student and said he'd been thinking about the song he was composing, and would he mind if he (Ed) made some suggestions. Harcourt then made the song up, which scanned perfectly, contained references to drinking, smoking, takeaways and David Dickinson's Bargain Hunt. AndyL ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2003 02:30:44 +0100 From: "Tim" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] Re:Stereophonics/More Bad Later > From: "Ian B" > >Cale was reasonably interesting though. Is the near slippage > >into 'Born is the king of Israel' intentional? No 'L' No 'L'? Yeah probably. I liked the embarassed grin that spread across his face when Nick Rhodes from Duran Duran said he'd like to work with him. > >Worst haircut award has to go to the front man from Dandy Warhols. It > >looked like an outrageous comb-over It was like three haircuts in one. They looked like aging 6th form students who still thought they were the coolest kids in the common room. Seriously devoid of memorable tunes. Bowie is well into em isn't he? The cloth-eared old dame. > > having said that...does anyone else think that Cale is > increasingly looking > like a cooler version of Frankie Howerd with that hair-do of his...??? He did rather. > still, what he did was interesting nonetheless... It was. Nice droney twisty-turny thing. Certainly a lot more enjoyable than that wretched Lou Reed performance a couple of weeks back. No Tai Chi expert on stage with Cale! He's playing in Manchester on 26th. I'm not a huge fan, but I shall be going and what sold me was that he's playing the student union here so it will be nice to see him in a proper gig environment (standing, in a medium sized room with beer and fags) rather than the stuffy, seated classical-music venue you'd expect him to be at. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2003 02:09:16 -0500 From: "dan bailey" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Re:Stereophonics/More Bad Later >> >Worst haircut award has to go to the front man from Dandy Warhols. It >> >looked like an outrageous comb-over > >It was like three haircuts in one. They looked like aging 6th form students >who still thought they were the coolest kids in the common room. Seriously >devoid of memorable tunes. Bowie is well into em isn't he? The cloth-eared >old dame. as am i. wonder where i should put "cloth-eared old dame" on my resume ... dan ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V6 #159 *******************************