From: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org (idealcopy-digest) To: idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Subject: idealcopy-digest V6 #146 Reply-To: idealcopy@smoe.org Sender: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-idealcopy-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk idealcopy-digest Tuesday, May 20 2003 Volume 06 : Number 146 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [idealcopy] The Sound /OGWT ["Keith Astbury" ] [idealcopy] [OT] Sound/Bunnymen/Comsats comparisons..& record co's consumer relations ["White Derek" ] RE: [idealcopy] The Sound /OGWT ["Keith Knight" ] Re: [idealcopy] flag:burning in Wire mag ["Ian B" ] Re: [idealcopy] Later [MarkBursa@aol.com] [idealcopy] OT: Luke Haines update [MarkBursa@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] The Sound /OGWT ["Keith Astbury" ] Re: [idealcopy] The Sound /OGWT ["Magnetic North" ] [idealcopy] Wire mentioned in article "No Wave Parallels" [Eardrumbuz@aol] Re: [idealcopy] SEND [Eardrumbuz@aol.com] Re: [idealcopy] Later [Eardrumbuz@aol.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 10:00:05 +0100 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] The Sound /OGWT > //////i liked the bunnymen but must say i always saw the likes of the > sound/comsats/chameleons as real "bunnymen-lite" p Funny isn't it. Whereas I loved the Bunnymen until Mac started believing his own hype, but detested the Comsats... On a different subject, I recall reading here sometime ago that record co's stated that 'copy controlled' cd's might not play on certain cd players (and not sounding as if they were exactly bothered by that). Well I've recently bought a couple with the copy control logo (the new Blur and Spiritualised Complete Works vol.1 as you ask), and guess what.... THEY DON'T PLAY ON MY CD PLAYER. This is a great way to encourage people to buy cd's isn't it. Keith ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 10:32:09 +0100 From: Andrew Walkingshaw Subject: Re: [idealcopy] The Sound /OGWT On Mon, May 19, 2003 at 10:00:05AM +0100, Keith Astbury wrote: > THEY DON'T PLAY ON MY CD PLAYER. > > This is a great way to encourage people to buy cd's isn't it. Don't buy *any* copy-controlled CDs. I'm currently hoping the new Radiohead album won't be, but I have my doubts somehow. I can think of at least two records I would have bought had they not been copy-controlled. - - Andrew (http://www.ukcdr.org/ is relevant too.) - -- email: andrew@lexical.org.uk http://www.lexical.org.uk/ Earth Sciences, University of Cambridge http://www.esc.cam.ac.uk/ CUR1350, 1350 MW Cambridgeshire and online http://www.cur1350.co.uk/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 05:49:31 -0400 From: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] The Sound /OGWT In a message dated 5/19/2003 4:00:05 AM Eastern Standard Time, keith.astbury10@virgin.net writes: > THEY DON'T PLAY ON MY CD PLAYER. > > This is a great way to encourage people to buy cd's isn't > it. ////my brother in law gets sent a lot of promos as he reviews cd's in a student mag. a lot of these are big label things , and some are copy protected. never found one i couldn't play so far. and if you want a copy , a hi-fi cd burner on analogue does it fine (the protection only seems to work for digital copies). as far as i can tell an analogue copy is perfectly listenable and quite good enough if it comes for free. p ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 10:58:42 +0100 From: Andrew Walkingshaw Subject: Re: [idealcopy] The Sound /OGWT On Mon, May 19, 2003 at 05:49:31AM -0400, PaulRabjohn@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 5/19/2003 4:00:05 AM Eastern Standard Time, keith.astbury10@virgin.net writes: > > > THEY DON'T PLAY ON MY CD PLAYER. > > > > This is a great way to encourage people to buy cd's isn't > > it. > > ////my brother in law gets sent a lot of promos as he reviews cd's > in a student mag. a lot of these are big label things , and some are > copy protected. never found one i couldn't play so far. and if you > want a copy , a hi-fi cd burner on analogue does it fine (the > protection only seems to work for digital copies). as far as i can > tell an analogue copy is perfectly listenable and quite good enough > if it comes for free. p The problem is slightly subtler than that: I listen to CDs at work, through a CDRom attached to a machine running Linux, or via my minidisc player (which involves ripping the CD to ATRAC on my computer), and only a relatively small proportion of the time through an actual hifi. Therefore, these CDs are useless to me 90% of the time, and I'm not going to give labels money on those terms. - - Andrew - -- email: andrew@lexical.org.uk http://www.lexical.org.uk/ Earth Sciences, University of Cambridge http://www.esc.cam.ac.uk/ CUR1350, 1350 MW Cambridgeshire and online http://www.cur1350.co.uk/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 03:10:43 -0700 (PDT) From: Ari Britt Subject: [idealcopy] threeduggaduggas isn't.... .......working right now,gave my old netscape address for confirmation purposes and it no longer exists!Ari The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 17:33:52 +0000 From: "White Derek" Subject: [idealcopy] [OT] Sound/Bunnymen/Comsats comparisons..& record co's consumer relations > > //////i liked the bunnymen but must say i always saw the likes of the > > sound/comsats/chameleons as real "bunnymen-lite" p I'm not that familiar with The Chameleons' work, but I've heard plenty of both The Sound & The Comsat Angels, & I'm not sure I get the comparison with the Bunnymen. Personally, I wouldn't bracket them all together......? (BTW, I like all three bands) > >Funny isn't it. Whereas I loved the Bunnymen until Mac started believing >his own hype..... He certainly appeared to get somewhat egocentric about *'his'* band, leading up to the split....:-p >but detested the Comsats... See above: as ever, to each their own.... - -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >re 'Copy protected CD's , Keith wrote: >On a different subject, I recall reading here sometime ago that record co's >stated that 'copy >controlled' cd's might not play on certain cd players >......>Well I've recently bought a couple with the >copy control logo, and >guess what....THEY DON'T PLAY ON MY CD PLAYER. > >This is a great way to encourage people to buy cd's isn't it. Once again record companies exhibit their usual level of respect for, and commitment to, their customer base. A plague on all their houses. While they have a legitimate right to try protect their copyright and that of their artistes, to do so by 'hobbling' CD's & reducing their utility, is *not on*, and may prove to be a costly 'own goal'. _________________________________________________________________ On the move? Get Hotmail on your mobile phone http://www.msn.co.uk/msnmobile ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 17:47:28 +0000 From: "White Derek" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] The Sound /OGWT . Maybe you are right that this song, Sense of Purpose [Again], was not let's say sonic the best. But look at his performance. Wow. I did like it. 'Sense of purpose' is from their best album,('From the Lion's mouth') but is *far* from the strongest track on it, IMO........DW _________________________________________________________________ It's fast, it's easy and it's free. Get MSN Messenger today! http://www.msn.co.uk/messenger ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 19:23:52 +0100 From: "Keith Knight" Subject: RE: [idealcopy] The Sound /OGWT I'm still a bit vague on this - what type of CD players don't they play on? And how do you tell they're 'copy controlled'? - do they have a parental guidance type sticker? (As you can tell I'm not up to speed here). Another the Keith - -----Original Message----- From: owner-idealcopy@smoe.org [mailto:owner-idealcopy@smoe.org] On Behalf Of Keith Astbury Sent: 19 May 2003 10:00 To: PaulRabjohn@aol.com Cc: idealcopy@smoe.org Subject: Re: [idealcopy] The Sound /OGWT > //////i liked the bunnymen but must say i always saw the likes of the > sound/comsats/chameleons as real "bunnymen-lite" p Funny isn't it. Whereas I loved the Bunnymen until Mac started believing his own hype, but detested the Comsats... On a different subject, I recall reading here sometime ago that record co's stated that 'copy controlled' cd's might not play on certain cd players (and not sounding as if they were exactly bothered by that). Well I've recently bought a couple with the copy control logo (the new Blur and Spiritualised Complete Works vol.1 as you ask), and guess what.... THEY DON'T PLAY ON MY CD PLAYER. This is a great way to encourage people to buy cd's isn't it. Keith ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 21:47:01 +0200 From: Bart van Damme Subject: Re: [idealcopy] The Sound /OGWT > I'm still a bit vague on this - what type of CD players don't they play > on? And how do you tell they're 'copy controlled'? - do they have a > parental guidance type sticker? (As you can tell I'm not up to speed > here). The only one I've got is Calexico's "Feast of Wire" and it indeed has a sticker. I didn't notice it untill I tried to copy it... and failed. Bart ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 21:17:26 +0100 From: "Ian B" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] flag:burning in Wire mag Wire at the Barbican gets a write-up in the new Wire mag. Quite positive - includes a couple of good pics. The thrust of the review seems pretty much the same tenor as the general consensus here (Devlin better than half-hearted Chapmans etc). Gilbert's This Way is also listed in one of those charts that people send in. Ian B ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 13:20:01 -0700 (PDT) From: Ari Britt Subject: Fwd: Re: [idealcopy] The Sound /OGWT/copy protected discs If you know anyone that has a 'stand alone' Hi Fi c.d recorder AND an extra c.d player you can copy the 'sound track (analog to digital) you should then be able to burn copies of that (2nd generation continuous)otherwise Bart send it to me and I'll do it for ya.Ari Bart van Damme wrote:Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 21:47:01 +0200 Subject: Re: [idealcopy] The Sound /OGWT From: Bart van Damme To: wire-news > I'm still a bit vague on this - what type of CD players don't they play > on? And how do you tell they're 'copy controlled'? - do they have a > parental guidance type sticker? (As you can tell I'm not up to speed > here). The only one I've got is Calexico's "Feast of Wire" and it indeed has a sticker. I didn't notice it untill I tried to copy it... and failed. Bart The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 21:36:43 +0100 From: "Ian B" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Later I expect if Wire were slated for the latest series of Later we'd have heard by now, but can you imagine the show opening with 99.9? There'd be little point in continuing with the rest of the programme. Shame it probably won't happen - it seems the perfect time. How many hearts sank the other night as Jools announced "next week we've got Sting and the Pretenders"? Didn't this just kind of some up what's so infuriating about the programme. I've never heard Goldfrapp before but they came across like the RAH Band fronted by a Noosha Fox lookalike the other night. Ian B ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 17:14:19 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Later > >>I've never heard Goldfrapp before but they came across like the RAH Band > fronted by a Noosha Fox lookalike the other night.<< Brilliant! Been trying to work out what they reminded me of all day... And weren't the Vines just plain embarrasing. Lou Reed's deadpan comment: "He'll be good if he lives long enough." Also half expected the Kings of Leon bassist to tell Jools he sho' had a purdy mouth. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 17:17:50 EDT From: MarkBursa@aol.com Subject: [idealcopy] OT: Luke Haines update From playlouder.com >>LUKE BUSY Victor Meldrew of pop brings out ace retrospective 19 May 2003 Brilliant Grump Luke Haines is bringing out a retrospective of his solo work and his stuff with The Auteurs entitled 'Das Capital'. The Auteurs sprang to prominence in 1992 when they released the 'New Wave' album, and went on to make another three other records; Haines also brought out two solo albums and his project Baader Meinhof is also represented on this collection. There is, however, one startling addition to the collection - - Haines has completely re-recorded the songs on 'Das Capital' using an orchestra. Cool! Here's the tracklisting: How Could I Be Wrong Showgirl Baader Meinhof Lenny Valentino Starstruck Satan Wants Me Unsolved Child Murder Junk Shop Clothes Michael Powell Bugger Bognor Future Generation 'Satan Wants Me', 'Michael Powell' and 'Bugger Bognor' have all recently been penned.<< ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 00:00:45 +0100 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] The Sound /OGWT > I'm still a bit vague on this - what type of CD players don't they play > on? I seem to recall the article saying that they wouldn't play on car stereo's, though I haven't tried that out yet. As I mentioned, however, they won't play on my cd player, presumably because it's got re-writing facilities (It won't read the disc). Bizarrely, they play on my PC. > And how do you tell they're 'copy controlled'? - do they have a > parental guidance type sticker? (As you can tell I'm not up to speed > here). Very tiny stickers, particularly on the Spiritualised case. (BTW as anyone else bought Vol 1 - should it have an inner booklet?) Keith ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 00:07:14 +0100 From: "Keith Astbury" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Later > > >>I've never heard Goldfrapp before but they came across like the RAH Band > > fronted by a Noosha Fox lookalike the other night.<< > > Brilliant! Been trying to work out what they reminded me of all day... Perhaps that's why I liked 'em! > And weren't the Vines just plain embarrasing. Didn't see the whole show, but from what I did... Embarrassing doesn't them justice. One number was one of the worst performances I've ever seen. I can only think that the singer was trying to his version of Kurt Cobain crooning Teen Spirit on TOTP. And failed badly. > Lou Reed's deadpan comment: > "He'll be good if he lives long enough." Wasn't eactly blown way with Lou, mind. The Raven is the 1st Lou album I've not bought in a long, long time, and his performance the other night did nothing to inspire me to buy it. And the BBC version of Perfect Day was better than that one. Keith ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 15:25:32 -0800 From: "Magnetic North" Subject: Re: [idealcopy] The Sound /OGWT I also had this kind of problem with my Denon DCD825. Some ceedees were not doing anything, even when they were new, but on my pc no problem. I had something to do with the LASER adjustment. The range of frequencies the LASERS uses in audio cd-players are probably smaller, then in computers. It should be no problem to change the range. A little clean-up also will help sometimes. Don't know about rewritables. Have never used them. Jan J > > I'm still a bit vague on this - what type of CD players don't they play > > on? > > I seem to recall the article saying that they wouldn't play on car > stereo's, though I haven't tried that out yet. As I mentioned, > however, they won't play on my cd player, presumably because it's > got re-writing facilities (It won't read the disc). Bizarrely, they > play on my PC. > > > And how do you tell they're 'copy controlled'? - do they have a > > parental guidance type sticker? (As you can tell I'm not up to speed > > here). > > Very tiny stickers, particularly on the Spiritualised case. > > (BTW as anyone else bought Vol 1 - should it have an inner booklet?) > > Keith - -------- Einstuerzende Neubauten (www.neubauten.org) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 17:18:44 -0700 From: Paul Pietromonaco Subject: Copy Protected CDs (was Re: [idealcopy] The Sound /OGWT) Hiya! >I also had this kind of problem with my Denon DCD825. Some ceedees >were not doing anything, even when they were new, but on my pc no >problem. I had something to do with the LASER adjustment. The range of >frequencies the LASERS uses in audio cd-players are probably smaller, >then in computers. It should be no problem to change the range. Unfortunately, this is not correct. The frequencies of the lasers used in audio CD players and computers are the same. All CD pickups use the same wavelength of laser light - 780 nm. This is per Philips specifications. (^_^) DVDs use a higher frequency/smaller wavelength laser - 650 nm. Most DVDs can play CDs by the use of either a "Twin-Wave" pickup that has both lasers (preferred method) or by careful focusing of the 650 nm beam (cheap method). Because of their reflectivity properties, the single 650 nm pickup DVD players can't play CD-Rs. If your Denon had trouble with CDs, it was most likely a focusing problem, and not a laser frequency problem. (^_^) There's some good information about all of this stuff here: http://www.osta.org/technology/cdqa6.htm So, how does the copy protection work? The main scheme I've heard about puts a computer data track on the disc - like an Enhanced CD - but the data track is corrupt, and this causes your computer to reject the disc. Since your home Audio CD player doesn't care about the data track, you can play the disc just fine. This is the copy protection you can defeat by just taking a black ink marker, and drawing over the data track, BTW. I'm not sure if this copy protection is being used anymore, considering how easy it was to defeat. (^_^) Cheers, Paul ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 22:06:55 -0400 (EDT) From: Aaron Mandel Subject: Re: [idealcopy] The Sound /OGWT On Mon, 19 May 2003, Bart van Damme wrote: > The only one I've got is Calexico's "Feast of Wire" and it indeed has a > sticker. I didn't notice it untill I tried to copy it... and failed. The bastards! I was annoyed I couldn't rip it to my iPod, but never noticed a sticker... hadn't even occurred to me that a smaller band like Calexico might receive that treatment. I thought it was just a fluke. Grrr... aaron ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 22:08:24 EDT From: Eardrumbuz@aol.com Subject: [idealcopy] Wire mentioned in article "No Wave Parallels" Click Here: No Wave Parallels http://www.freewebz.com/titaniumexpose/articles/nowaveparallels.htm interesting article about no wave song structure and sound. wire gets a mention in the section about the minutemen. - -paul (aba) c.d. www.mp3.com/winteracademy ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 22:19:15 EDT From: Eardrumbuz@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] SEND In a message dated 5/16/03 8:35:33 PM, scott@kellock42.freeserve.co.uk writes: > >F**K me this is the Best Punk album for 20 odd f**king years and he's on >about >the packaging and decor. if i didn't judge records by their covers, i'd have missed out on a lot of great stuff. i love the send cover too, and i agree with andrew and some of the other copyists that the live disc needs a cover. - -paul (oh yeah, the music is great too) c.d. www.mp3.com/winteracademy ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 23:01:08 EDT From: Eardrumbuz@aol.com Subject: Re: [idealcopy] Later In a message dated 5/19/03 4:30:55 PM, ian@ibarrett.fsnet.co.uk writes: > > >I've never heard Goldfrapp before but they came across like the RAH Band > >fronted by a Noosha Fox lookalike the other night. i've heard goldfrapp, but who are the other two? - -paul c.d. n.p. art of stopping live at the metro www.mp3.com/winteracademy ------------------------------ End of idealcopy-digest V6 #146 *******************************